What is Dream Theater's policy on cameras?

[SkyPyro]

It appears that people are getting nice cameras into DT concerts on this tour. Is that DT policy, or just lax security at the particular venues?

I have a really nice dSLR that would take some lovely shots (even handheld) but I don't want to try to get it in if I have to check it at guest services (it's worth over a grand).

Not counting on my phone to take very good shots, so want to bring something better.

[El Barto]

I believe bot the venue and the band can have their own policies.  I recall that HOB down here doesn't allow in any cameras, period.  Nextstage, where DT is playing,  has a notice on their website that says cheap ones are fine, professional ones are out of bounds.  The distinction that they [wrongly] use is a detachable lens.  I suppose that the band could impose their own camera ban if they wanted, but I doubt they would. 

[El Barto]

I'm kind of curious when the camera policy became such a big deal.  I've never been to a show where they were so hardassed about cameras than they were at all three of the Texas shows.  Like I said,  my friend got tossed in Houston.  Kareem Abdul-Jabbar ran over and menaced anybody he saw with a camera, and even way back at our seats last night there were people getting hassled for it.

I always thought DT was plenty cool with cameras.  I'm not sure how/when/why the position changed.  I don't recall anybody mentioning problems before the Texas shows.

[lyfeternl]

I I don't recall anybody mentioning problems before the Texas shows.

Oh, don't worry. You weren't alone with the camera/phone harassment. I went to the Atlanta show and it was definitely a problem to have your phones and cameras out.

[Progmetty]

I never assumed it was the band's rules, just the venue's. They actually said it clearly before both my shows on the PA right before DT's set, I don't remember the exact phrasing but it says something like "The something something venue does not allow photography at all".
But I'd be okay with it even if it was a band's rule, I can see how it annoy them from the stage looking down at the audience trying to see happy faces but all they see is a sea of camera/phones stand by lights.

[Dr. DTVT]

It is venue policy and not band policy.  Twice I have witnessed someone being hassled about pictures (Worcester, MA 2010; D.C. this tour), and four times I've been free to shoot away.

It seems that most of these smaller venues are owned by the same conglomerate, which is why picture taking has been a recurring issue this tour and not in the past.

[theanalogkid7]

Last night in Dallas I got hassled for discreetly using my iPhone to take pictures.  Of course, we were told no photos at all, so I knew that sooner or later I'd be getting hassled for it.  However, I felt everything was cool when people from the back started to fill the front few rows where my seats were and very unabashedly used their phones and cameras to take pictures.  I was keeping my phone low and close to chest as to not draw attention to myself.  However, the security officer felt that I need to be told not to take pictures and even pushed through the people that weren't supposed to be at the front, with their cameras out, to tell me to stop.  It was confusing, but didn't happen till the encore so I didn't really care

[theanalogkid7]

I should note, though, that a buddy of mine at the show last night said he saw when I got hassled, and that it appeared that Maddi was pointing me out.  Perhaps it is a band thing?

[El Barto]

It is venue policy and not band policy.  Twice I have witnessed someone being hassled about pictures (Worcester, MA 2010; D.C. this tour), and four times I've been free to shoot away.

It seems that most of these smaller venues are owned by the same conglomerate, which is why picture taking has been a recurring issue this tour and not in the past.

The Dallas venue has never cared at all.  They were hassling people in the second section back last night.

They also played the same pre-recorded message before the last two shows.  That definitely seems like a band thing.

I could understand if it was just the Houston show because that was an HOB affiliated venue,  but Dallas isn't applicable there,  and the Bass place in Austin was just a college theater who wouldn't care less otherwise. 

My theory has always been that the band and the theater can both set policies, and they probably go with the more restrictive of the two.  Don't know if that's actually the case,  but I do think that this was DT's,  or possibly RoadRunner's issue, and not the venue's.

[kefka]

In my experience, both as a musician and patron, if at the start of the tour, photos/video are fine, and then suddenly aren't, it means some shitheads started selling either photos or videos of the concert for profit without approval of the band. it ends up being a huge copyright pain in the ass when that happens. (you see it too with bands that allow folks to record audio of a show. if you walk into a record store and they're selling bootlegs for $30, you can bet that band will stop allowing taping pretty quickly).

either that, or the legal issues went sideways, but that'd be a stretch.

lord knows it's not because they sound bad (i've known a couple bands who got in the habit of phoning in shows who stopped allowing photos/audio/video because it ended up on youtube of them sucking balls and it hurt ticket sales) or because they're playing unreleased material (when i saw the frames last nov., they played a very new, very raw song and asked that folks not record it, and amazingly, everyone put down their phones), which tend to be causes of changing media policy.

this is all speculation of course. they might just have decided they were sick of playing concerts to iphones instead of people.

[cyberdrummer]

If it is the band's policy, it is a policy that has changed dramatically in the space of a couple of months. At all three shows I went to on the 1st European Leg, there seemed to be no problem at all with people taking photos and videos; so it seems to have been newly implemented in North America.

That's if it is a band policy.

[kevinpwrs]

In my experience, both as a musician and patron, if at the start of the tour, photos/video are fine, and then suddenly aren't, it means some shitheads started selling either photos or videos of the concert for profit without approval of the band. it ends up being a huge copyright pain in the ass when that happens. (you see it too with bands that allow folks to record audio of a show. if you walk into a record store and they're selling bootlegs for $30, you can bet that band will stop allowing taping pretty quickly).

either that, or the legal issues went sideways, but that'd be a stretch.

lord knows it's not because they sound bad (i've known a couple bands who got in the habit of phoning in shows who stopped allowing photos/audio/video because it ended up on youtube of them sucking balls and it hurt ticket sales) or because they're playing unreleased material (when i saw the frames last nov., they played a very new, very raw song and asked that folks not record it, and amazingly, everyone put down their phones), which tend to be causes of changing media policy.

this is all speculation of course. they might just have decided they were sick of playing concerts to iphones instead of people.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head. When DT's North American tour started, there was all the video you could watch on youtube, but as the tour moved east, the videos slowed to a crawl. I think it was the Chicago show, someone videoed the entire show and it was on YT. Pretty good quality too. That may have been the straw that broke the proverbial camels back. At the show on 10-22-11 (Ruth Eckerd Hall) before they opened the doors to let us in, REH staff placed flyers on the doors stating that absolutely no cameras and cell phone pics and video would be allowed as "Per Dream Theater." So, REH placed this squarely on DT's shoulders. I believe the next night at Hard Rock Live, they placed the no pics and video on DT as well.

[RaiseTheKnife]

nothing said or was done at the LA show regarding cameras, hence, the very first live performance ever of Breaking All Illusions was captured and edited from seven or separate cameras. 

This might have stirred a reaction from the band, who I beleive might have since began requesting that security keep tabs on cameras. 

I say this because in Austin some stupid announcement came over the PA before the show forbidding camera use.  First, austin venue was at a university auditorium and i find it hard to believe this is their standard policy; second, there was no way to police people as each row was 160 seats with no aisle, so securty had no access to folks in the center seats, lest security hop and wiggle past 58 people to get to the perpertraitor. Hard to beleive they would have such grossly unenforceable policy as standard operating procedure.

(forgive the spelling, its 6am...)

[Gator06]

The security at the Orlando Hard Rock Live show was ridiculous. I ended up speaking to a director of operations after I wrote an email to Hard Rock corporate. He informed me that DT had a very strict policy for this show against any photography. He said they specifically asked Hard Rock to police cell phones. I had never seen anything like it. Lets hope word of this gets back to the band somehow and they relax their policy for future shows.

[El Barto]

Somebody from the Austin show sent the following [unnecessarily melodramatic] email to the theater.  Taken from the official DT board:

Please stop this Catch-22 from happening!
After purchasing VIP tickets for good money per ticket we attended the Dream Theater concert last night, October 26, 2010 at the Bass Concert Hall, in Austin, Texas.
After making sure we could use small digital cameras...confirmed by LiveNation who sold us the VIP tickets, Dream Theater representatives themselves (at the VIP Meet and Greet with the Dream Theater band right before the show, and with the band themselves while they were signing autographs...we proceed to our FRONT ROW seat.
As soon as we take our first small digital camera photo...your security personnel immediately rush over to tell us NO PHOTOS - NO CAMERAS!
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT? is the collective reply by all of your guests wearing DREAM THEATER VIP Badges. We proceed to inform your security personnel...to no avail. Incensed, I endure through the first 2 songs of the opening band TRIVIUM...after I could no longer take it...I walk out and over to your Guest Services...and was greeted with the OVERUSED-TIRED-LINE "We are only following the orders of the band"..............BALONEY........we knew better....we had a lot of people in the first 5 rows (with DREAM THEATER VIP Badges confirm they had called...they confirmed...they asked again...they confirmed...YES...SMALL DIGITAL CAMERAS were ALLOWED.
As soon as the opening band, TRIVIUM, was done...I again raised my protest to your security personnel...they summoned a guest services employee who again expressed the OVERUSED-TIRED-LINE "We are only following the orders of the band"...But we knew better. Continuing to protest, I showed him the email that I received from DREAM THEATER VIP that clearly stated small digital cameras allowed. Your person took that information to the band management and your venue then changed the NO PHOTOS-NO CAMERA policy to YOU CAN TAKE PHOTOS-NO FLASH for the first 15 minutes.
So being stuck with that or nothing...we accepted the 15 minutes (still a complete rip-off after knowing what we had been told...and knowing the documentation that we had directly from DREAM THEATER!!!).
So...the band comes on...and the first 5 rows take photos................until...............half-way during the second song....your security personnel....during the second song....the performers merely feet away from us in the FRONT ROW...proceed to interrupt the song and the viewing by WALKING IN FRONT OF US to tell us TIME IS UP...NO MORE PHOTOS. At that point the Bass Concert Hall showed us...especially the first five rows...DREAM THEATER VIP...what a bunch of CLOWNS...LOSERS...you all (yes...all) are. Could your GOONS not wait until the end of the song before doing their bully best to remind the audience who was in charge?
So...I bring this up because DREAM THEATER fans are some of the most passionate in the world...they look forward to the perfect concert experience that the band members want to provide their fans...and the band does not want to let them down...especially because a venue blocks innocent small no flash camera picture taking.

By the way...DREAM THEATER is still the GREATEST BAND IN THE WORLD! Despite the actions of Bass Concert Hall personnel - Excellent show!

Sounds to me like a pretty gnarly mix-up happened somewhere with the band, management and venues.  It's pretty clear that the venues are operating under a no-camera policy set forth by management,  but that's not necessarily what band/management had intended to be the case.

[RaiseTheKnife]

I didn't see any security leaping into the front row as the above complaint explains (from my 8th row seat).  But it certainly would have been beyond intrusive because the security would be stepping on the feet of a dozens of people to make their way toward the perp.

I recall my meet & greet package details said that small cameras were NOT allowed during the m&g and a similar announcement was made before we met the band, so I don't know where that guy was reading it differently.

[El Barto]

Kareem dealt with the entire front two rows.  I stood pretty close to the stage so he actually walked behind me to get to the other side--no intrusion for me.

I actually saw an exchange which,  judging from this fellows write up, was probably him.  Short-haired blond fellow.  If that was him,  I'd say that he was treated far better than he deserved.  He had to be told repeatedly to knock it off,  and I probably wouldn't have given him a third in lieu of tossing his ass out during the second song. 

[dvargas]

I was in the first row too... And they constantly walked in front of us to tell people to keep their cameras and phones away. A guy two seats from me had to be told at least 12 times to refrain from using the camera. 

[Dr. DTVT]

Maybe the band doesn't want there to be pictures and the confusion of who is enforcing camera policy is part of the ploy for keep fans from pointing their finger at the band, and based off the email the sent to people who purchased VIP packages (I still have my email, I'll post it below), it certainly makes it LOOK like its the venues rule.

If the band doesn't want cameras, I'm actually cool with that if that's what they want, I just don't like the conflicting policies being disseminated.

Here's the email, I have redacted phone numbers and email addresses, and put the camera policy in red text:

Dear Dream Theater Meet & Greet fan,

Warner Theatre, WASHINGTON DC, October 17th, 2011

Meet & Greet Package

Here is your itinerary.  This information is REALLY IMPORTANT, so please read everything VERY CAREFULLY!  You are in charge here so please let everyone in your party know this information as well: 

The Basics:



·       This package is NON-TRANSFERABLE.

·       Meeting time: 5:15pm!

·       Meeting place: VIP NATION check-in table between the glass doors in Main Lobby, across from Box Office- look for the VIP Nation sign

Doors open to the public at 7:00pm.  Trivium is on at 8:00pm. Dream Theater is on at 9:15pm.*



Just a reminder…   These packages are not transferable.

Please don’t bring recording devices, or any other prohibited items. Non-professional cameras (no detachable lens, fits in your pocket/purse) are ok. Please check directly with the venue for their camera policy. No cameras allowed during the meet & greet.

Contacts in case of emergency:

Your host’s cell:  XXX - Please only call for day of show emergencies.

Customer service:       XXX

Mon-Fri 9:30am – 6:30pm Pacific Time

Customer service is always available on show days from 30 minutes before your meeting time until 30 minutes after show starts.

info@vipnation.com


Check-in to your Dream Theater VIP experience on Foursquare - https://foursquare.com/vipnation


The Details:


Please meet your host, Ann, at the VIP Nation check-in table between the glass doors in main lobby, across from the box office, at 5:15pm. Please bring PHOTO ID matching the ATTENDEE NAME on your order.  Please bring your order confirmation as well (confirmation page from iloveallaccess.com/ vipnation.com, or your confirmation email, or both!) just in case it’s needed.

You’ll receive your exclusive Dream Theater gifts: collectible tour poster, specially designed concert shirt, autographed photo and more! You’ll have a meet & greet and a photo op with members of Dream Theater!

Your host, Ann,  will shoot the photo op and you can view and download.  They will be posted within two weeks following your show, and will be accessible for 60 days at: https://vipnation.smugmug.com The Dream Theater photo gallery password is: XXX


Last, but not least, get ready to enjoy Dream Theater from your seat(s) in the first 5 rows!

Doors open to the public at 7:00pm.  Trivium is on at 8:00pm. Dream Theater is on at 9:15pm.*


Any questions regarding your itinerary can be directed to the customer service number (XXX).


If you are running more than 45 minutes late, please call us (XXX) or text your host. (XXX)


*All times subject to change without notice

The Legal Stuff:

Attached is a copy (Word document) of the waiver for your review.  When you check in, you will be required to sign a waiver.  (No need to print and bring the waiver with you).

See you at the show!

[fitzchrisdt]

I work for a venue in the Dallas area and can say that most of the camera policies that are enforced by the Venue come directly from the Artist.  We have a general rule that we are okay with pocket size camera's, no flash, and whatever your cell phone is capable of.  The Artist can trump that rule though, and it's totally up to them.  There are circumstances where the Venue policy will trump the Artist policy.  There are certain "jam bands" that have pretty wide recording/taping policies.  We would not allow someone to bring in a recording mic on a stand, even though the artist may be okay with it.  The reasoning would be that it would obstruct other audience members sightlines.  Further, there is a liability issue when you get into bigger pieces of recording equipment. 
I have no inside knowledge on the DT camera situation on this tour.  I will say that I went to the Austin and Dallas shows and the voice that came over the house pa stating that no recording/photography would be allowed, sounded like the same person to me.  This and my experience with another venue leads me to believe that it's coming from the band, not the venue, but that is only an educated GUESS.

[Nick]

Both venues I was at this tour were rabid about catching people with cameras or phones. It was to the point if someone was texting they'd tell the person to put away their phone because it could be used as a camera. Had never seen this with DT before, but it was two new venues for me so that's what I'm crediting it to.

[DebraKadabra]

This is all quite weird, as I took pics AND video (Wait For Sleep was the only vid that wasn't completely brickwalled) at the Austin show and not once was I hassled.  That was a different story at the Verizon the next night, however.

I agree that sometimes the band sets that policy, but a lot of times it's coming from the venue and not the band/artist.

[bosk1]

I agree that sometimes the band sets that policy, but a lot of times it's coming from the venue and not the band/artist.

And often, the band may express a preference without really realizing that the way venue security will actually carry it out is different than what the band intended, which seems to be the case here.

[El Barto]

This is all quite weird, as I took pics AND video (Wait For Sleep was the only vid that wasn't completely brickwalled) at the Austin show and not once was I hassled.  That was a different story at the Verizon the next night, however.

It would have been impossible to enforce behind the first two rows because of the lack of aisles.  I saw KAJ dealing with people in the front two constantly,  but I doubt he even bothered with anybody further back. 

[Derango]

Like I said in another thread here, I'm probably one of the few people who's happy that they're trying to cut down on all the cell phones waving in the air. It's kinda hard to get into a show when you're seeing it through the backs of everybody's cell phone in front of you because they just have to videotape the entire show.

I'm cool with taking a few clips and a little bit of video as a memento but it's gotten crazy over the past year with people holding their cell phones up in the air the entire show.

If I was in a band, I'd be tired of seeing that night after night too.

[DebraKadabra]

This is all quite weird, as I took pics AND video (Wait For Sleep was the only vid that wasn't completely brickwalled) at the Austin show and not once was I hassled.  That was a different story at the Verizon the next night, however.

It would have been impossible to enforce behind the first two rows because of the lack of aisles.  I saw KAJ dealing with people in the front two constantly,  but I doubt he even bothered with anybody further back.

You're right about that, with the way the Bass is laid out.

They sure were being adamant at the Verizon.  So much so that I didn't even attempt taking any pics as I was so noided that I'd get tossed out on my rear.

Like I said in another thread here, I'm probably one of the few people who's happy that they're trying to cut down on all the cell phones waving in the air. It's kinda hard to get into a show when you're seeing it through the backs of everybody's cell phone in front of you because they just have to videotape the entire show.

I'm cool with taking a few clips and a little bit of video as a memento but it's gotten crazy over the past year with people holding their cell phones up in the air the entire show.

If I was in a band, I'd be tired of seeing that night after night too.

You know, I agree--even though I videoed here and there at the Austin show.

I'll go you one better though.  At the Austin show, there was a girl in the row ahead of us playing games on her cell phone FOR THE WHOLE SHOW.  Really?  You (or your folks) spend hard-earned cash just to play games the whole time?

[bosk1]

^Whoa, when did you register here?  (well, yeah, I see your registration date, so I'm not literally asking when you registered--just expressing surprise because I didn't see your account registration come through and here you are)

[DebraKadabra]

^Whoa, when did you register here?  (well, yeah, I see your registration date, so I'm not literally asking when you registered--just expressing surprise because I didn't see your account registration come through and here you are)

I signed up this past Friday & was approved by Sunday night/Monday morning.  Not sure by whom, though.

'bout time, though, right?

[DT2003]

Sorry for starting a new thread if this has been covered already, but I'm trying my best to avoid any setlist spoilers.  So my question regards to taking pictures this leg of the tour as I will be going to Saturday's show...  I know during the first leg of this tour they had a very strict policy that pictures were not allowed.  Have they changed that policy or is it still the same?  Thanks in advance!

[drew512]

I think it depends on the venue. When I saw DT last year, there were signs up all over the place stating that photography was prohibited. When I saw them last weekend (different venue), I don't recall seeing any signs like that, and I was able to take dozens of pictures (none of which came out that great) and even a couple videos without incident.

[SystematicThought]

The policy was really strict here in Minneapolis. They said no flash photography at the gate, but as the show started, the ushers patrolled the  sections and would tell people to put their cameras away despite never saying anything about pictures in general besides no flash photography.

The tickets don't say anything against it and JP's wife has said there is no rule against it. (Or at least I think that's been said).

[DT2003]

I think it depends on the venue. When I saw DT last year, there were signs up all over the place stating that photography was prohibited. When I saw them last weekend (different venue), I don't recall seeing any signs like that, and I was able to take dozens of pictures (none of which came out that great) and even a couple videos without incident.

With their last tour it wasn't the venue, it was DT.  I saw them in two different places and both said that the band were the ones enforcing it and they could not understand why as the venue did allow pictures but they had to follow the bands orders.

[wkiml]

PNC allows cameras as long as they are not professional grade ( detachable lenses)

I have a Nikon which I have used quite often and plan on bringing with me this Saturday as well


from their site


Camera Policy:

Personal cameras are allowed in the venue. Flash photography, video and removable lens cameras are not permitted without venue approval.

[El Barto]

It was never the venues.  The venues might tend to enforce the rule differently, but it begins with the wishes of the band.  That said, ushers were discouraging people from taking pictures the other night, but they weren't being as overbearing about it as what I saw on the last leg.  My guess is that on the first leg, the band was very emphatic about the picture thing and the venues acted accordingly.  On this leg, I suspect they're not harping on it as badly and the venues aren't being so hardassed about it. 

[wkiml]

conversation I had with PNC on-line rep

 James_ZWS572: Hi, my name is James_ZWS572, please give me a moment to review your information and I would be happy to assist you today.

 James_ZWS572: hello William! I apologize, but if the venue does not permit something, the band will not be changing that policy. The venue's rules apply for the show.

 William Kimlingen: its vice versa  the venues policy is cameras permitted, my question is the band has asked in the past that pictures not be, does the bands policy override the venue

 James_ZWS572: No it does not. The venue's word is law in this instance, for lack of a better term.

 William Kimlingen: thank you