X-Men/Wolverine/Deadpool

[bosk1]

Last night, X-Men Origins:  Wolverine was on FX.  Watched the last 45 minutes or so while I was getting ready for bed.  I've seen it in its entirety and, overall, I thought it was decent despite some flaws here and there.  It isn't epic cinema.  It just is what it is:  a comic book hero movie that sometimes suffers a bit of an identity crisis by trying to appeal to a younger audience on one hand while also trying to be gritty and dark.  But it's good fun, stayed relatively true to the Wolverine origins story despite some obvious liberties, and featured some cool Wolverine/Sabertooth fights.  All in all, that's good enough for me.

But here's my major beef with the film:  The epic "boss fight" with Wade/Deadpool at the end.  I have two problems with it:

1.  I hate boss fights where the bad guy is near-invincible to the point where you have to completely suspend logic and common sense in believing the good guys won.  Yes, I understand that he has to be so tough that Wolverine alone would surely die, and that there would be a severe threat to mankind and/or mutantkind, to justify Sabertooth and Wolverine teaming up to defeat him.  But when it's taken to the extreme like this where there's no plausible way they can win other than just the sheer dumb luck of how it ended (and him mysteriously NOT using the teleport ability he had been using for the previous 5 minutes of the fight), it just becomes stupid and unsatisfying.

2.  They ruined a perfectly awesome character.  Wade/Deadpool is, IMO, one of the coolest characters in the entire Marvel universe.  And they ruined him by turning him into that Weapon 11 thing.  I stopped reading/collecting in the mid-90s, so maybe there actually was a Marvel storyline where something like that happened to him.  But even if that is the case and this wasn't totally made up, it was a dumb thing to do in this movie.  First off, he could have been a really cool character in this film and could have been developed a lot more.  Second, they could have saved him for use in other films.  What they did with him was just stupid, stupid, stupid, and it really makes me mad that they took a character with so much personality and potential and just made him into a mindless "super weapon" that gets killed off in a boss fight.  I cannot stress enough how much this disappoints me.

Anyhow, those are my points.  Feel free to discuss those or any other points about the movie.  I know it isn't well liked, so I am expecting the typical "lol that movie sux" comments.  But my hope is that there will actually be some substantive discussion.

[ZirconBlue]

First off, he could have been a really cool character in this film and could have been developed a lot more.  Second, they could have saved him for use in other films.

Last I heard, there was still a Deadpool movie in the works, staring Ryan Reynolds.  I think they've decided to just pretend the events of this movie never happened.

[Schleppy]

First off, he could have been a really cool character in this film and could have been developed a lot more.  Second, they could have saved him for use in other films.

Last I heard, there was still a Deadpool movie in the works, staring Ryan Reynolds.  I think they've decided to just pretend the events of this movie never happened.

The script is online. Only references to the movie are a shot of a Weapon XI action figure in the trash, and Deadpool directly stapling a Hugh Jackman People Magazine cover to his face as a disguise.

[bosk1]

Which is great, except that you have huge continuity errors.  And for whatever reason, I seem to have some form of OCD when it comes to this type of continuity error such that I will surely find it almost impossible to put these issues out of my head while watching the new one, and will come away feeling like it was ruined no matter how good it actually turns out to be.

[Dimitrius]

As a guy who still follows Deadpool comics, no, there was never any storyline where what happens in the movie happened to Deadpool.

They completely ruined the character! This after they made the most perfect casting choice in the world for Wade Wilson.

[skydivingninja]

I agree with your two problems with it and add a few more:

-Continuing the X3 problem of introducing a bunch of fan favorite mutants with no depth explored on screen.  Between the first two X-Men movies, you saw so much of Wovlerine, Cyclops, Jean Grey, Storm, Rogue, Professor X, and Magneto and those characters stuck with us.  Heck, even Iceman stuck around in our consciousness.  Plenty of characters, but we got to see them and they actually mattered.  You had some good villains in the second movie as well, but the third movie and Wolverine just seemed incredibly rushed when it came to introducing characters and then never seeing them again except for a five-minute fight scene, where they were gone in an instant yet again.  They were just kind of...there.  

If you had to narrow down the list of MAIN characters in Wolverine, they would be Wolvie, his love interest, Stryker, and Sabretooth.  You could have made a much better movie with just those characters as the focus rather than introducing all these characters that are just there to advance the plot in a superficial way.

And to contrast this with X-Men First Class, the characters with real substance included Professor X, Magneto, Mystique, Beast, Sebastian Shaw, Angel (not the real Angel but whatever), Moira, and Havok.  You could probably throw Darwin into that mix too with his heroic sacrifice (Azazel, Emma Frost, Tornado Guy, and Banshee were SFX budget users as far as I'm concerned).  That's 9 out of 13 characters that had some memorable traits about them.  This "introduce a bunch of mutants" thing CAN be done well so that everyone serves a purpose.  Wolverine just kinda failed in that respect.  Hard.

-Doing nothing with Gambit.  He flies a helicopter and that's it.  Okay, he does it twice.  The character fans were constantly clamoring for inclusion in the movies...and he barely does anything.

Okay so most of it was one big problem that also plagued X3, but still.  Its heartbreaking to see memorable characters like Juggernaut, Deadpool, and Gambit just being thrown to the wayside like that.

@Bosk: as far as continuity errors, X-Men first class seems to have ignored that Wolverine and X3 ever happened, which is a good thing as far as I'm concerned.  If they made a Deadpool movie that did the same thing, I'd be totally cool with that.  I also agree with Dimi that Ryan Reynolds is the perfect choice for Deadpool.

[Dimitrius]

Supposedly, the Deadpool movie completely ignores that Wolverine ever happened.

[bosk1]

I haven't seen First Class yet.  So I guess I just need to brace for impact and accept the fact that continuity errors are going to be driving me nuts for the entire film.  

And I agree with the casting choice for Wade in Wolverine.  Great choice.  And I understand the thing about bringing in characters and doing nothing with them.  But to me, that's a minor annoyance--especially given that the Marvel universe is so vast in terms of characters and storylines that you just can't do a lot of justice to a large number of characters in a movie.  If they didn't really do much more with Wade in the movie, I wouldn't have minded much.  But that's different than transforming him and ruining him like they did. 

[GuineaPig]

It's a terrible movie, imo.

[Volk9]

I guess I should chime in.

Origins is a decent action flick, but isnt that great as a comic book movie.

The CGI is terrible in places (bathroom scene), the way Gambit was included seemed like a quick cash-in, and Deadpool is ruined in the end.

The first half of the movie was fine imo. Ryan Reynolds/Deadpool is PERFECT and his attitude/acting is spot-on with the character, and the action is cool.

But X2 still the best X-men film to date.

[The Dark Master]

I am a huge fan of the X-Men comics, and I actually loved the movie overall aside from the end boss fight (for pretty much all the reasons you just described) as well as the fact that Gambit was pointlessly shoehorned into a story in which he had no real reason for being there other then to satisfy some fan-girl wank.  Beyond that, though, it was pretty solid, with great casting and acting and a decent story.  Hell, I didn't even mind the fact that they were explicit about Wolverine and Sabretooth being brothers, rather then simply implying some sort of family relation like they did in the comics.  I guess this is a Hollywood movie, so they feel the need to spell everything out to the audience and tie up the story in a neat little bow, rather then simply implying things and letting the viewer figure it out for themselves, but whatever, the relationship between the two was well done, and Jackman and Schreiber had some real chemistry in the film that actually made you believe they were brothers, so I let that pass.

Oh, and the producers have confirmed that Reynolds will be returning as Deadpool in a later film, and have pretty much suggested that we ignore the end-boss "Deadpool" from Wolverine as some sort of prototype (or something like that   ). I actually thought Ryan was the perfect person to play Wade, his performance in the first 20 minutes of the film nailed the character dead-on, so I'm glad he will be given the chance to portray a proper Deadpool at some point in the future.

[wolfking]

I haven't seen the movie but Deadpool was always one of my favs too, great character.

[skydivingninja]

I haven't seen First Class yet.  So I guess I just need to brace for impact and accept the fact that continuity errors are going to be driving me nuts for the entire film.  

And I agree with the casting choice for Wade in Wolverine.  Great choice.  And I understand the thing about bringing in characters and doing nothing with them.  But to me, that's a minor annoyance--especially given that the Marvel universe is so vast in terms of characters and storylines that you just can't do a lot of justice to a large number of characters in a movie.  If they didn't really do much more with Wade in the movie, I wouldn't have minded much.  But that's different than transforming him and ruining him like they did.  

Which means the obvious solution would be to keep the number of extraneous characters that most audiences wouldn't know ANYWAYS down, or at least work in some basic character traits other than "this mutant is so 2008 while other mutants are so 2000 and late."  What you said about not doing justice to all the characters is totally understandable, and yet, in X-men and X2, almost all of the characters were executed to perfection.  I can tell you more about Mystique based on the first movie than I can for Multiple Man in X3, or the carnie from Wolverine, and Mystique maybe had like two lines when she wasn't in disguise.  The only ones without much behind them were Sabretooth and Toad.  They came very close with First Class.  In the hands of capable directors and writers, they can introduce lots of mutants but still DO something with them or at least make them stick in your mind.  

And you should see First Class, because it makes up for the last two failures called X-Men movies.  Its not perfect, but its good.  The two leads are perfectly cast.  

[FlyingBIZKIT]

First off, he could have been a really cool character in this film and could have been developed a lot more.  Second, they could have saved him for use in other films.

Last I heard, there was still a Deadpool movie in the works, staring Ryan Reynolds.  I think they've decided to just pretend the events of this movie never happened.

you're kidding. Ryan Reynolds? That better not be true. He was already The Green Lantern. I know that TGL is DC, but still, I hate when they re-use actors like that. I heard TGL was not good, and the trailer looked terrible.

[Adami]

Instead of listing any of the things I didn't like the movie, I'll make a positive review and post the whole list of things I liked about the movie.


1. As everyone said, Ryan was perfect until the end (which wasn't his fault)

2. Despite basically re-writing the character, I thought Leiv was amazing as Sabertooth and really made him a cool character that the other movie didn't.



That's it, I didn't like anything else about the movie because it was horrible.

[Pols Voice]

I never had a problem with this movie or X-Men 3. Partly because I don't read the comics, I guess.

[Dimitrius]

you're kidding. Ryan Reynolds?

Ryan Reynolds was BORN to play Deadpool! He is the perfect casting choice.

[Deadpool]

I love Deadpool.

Avatar and sig change time.

[zepp-head]

Supposedly, the Deadpool movie completely ignores that Wolverine ever happened.

Yes and no.  In the Deadpool movie/screenplay, the Wolverine movie exists as a movie Wade has seen and hates.  If the movie turns out as good as the screenplay, it would seriously be probably a top 3 comic book movie ever.  Teaming up with Colossus is priceless.

you're kidding. Ryan Reynolds?

Ryan Reynolds was BORN to play Deadpool! He is the perfect casting choice.

Yes.

[Deadpool]

I am totally awesome right now.

[PuffyPat]

First off, he could have been a really cool character in this film and could have been developed a lot more.  Second, they could have saved him for use in other films.

Last I heard, there was still a Deadpool movie in the works, staring Ryan Reynolds.  I think they've decided to just pretend the events of this movie never happened.

you're kidding. Ryan Reynolds? That better not be true. He was already The Green Lantern. I know that TGL is DC, but still, I hate when they re-use actors like that. I heard TGL was not good, and the trailer looked terrible.

You missed the boat on this one. He played Deadpool in X-Men Origins: Wolverine. That was my complaint for him playing Green Lantern.

[FlyingBIZKIT]

First off, he could have been a really cool character in this film and could have been developed a lot more.  Second, they could have saved him for use in other films.

Last I heard, there was still a Deadpool movie in the works, staring Ryan Reynolds.  I think they've decided to just pretend the events of this movie never happened.

you're kidding. Ryan Reynolds? That better not be true. He was already The Green Lantern. I know that TGL is DC, but still, I hate when they re-use actors like that. I heard TGL was not good, and the trailer looked terrible.

You missed the boat on this one. He played Deadpool in X-Men Origins: Wolverine. That was my complaint for him playing Green Lantern.

Ohhhhh okay. Well nevermind..haha

[Dimitrius]

Supposedly, the Deadpool movie completely ignores that Wolverine ever happened.

Yes and no.  In the Deadpool movie/screenplay, the Wolverine movie exists as a movie Wade has seen and hates.  If the movie turns out as good as the screenplay, it would seriously be probably a top 3 comic book movie ever.  Teaming up with Colossus is priceless.

That'd be completely fucking awesome!!!!

[Deadpool]

Check out my new screen name and my new avatar and sig that I just made.

Boom! Tough actin Tinactin.

[Zook]

Cool. Like your avatar too. Vegeta is my favorite DBZ character.

Well, liked your avatar

[Deadpool]

Lol noob.

[bosk1]

 

[Zook]

The new guy already gets a emoticon?! I need a new one. All the remakes have diminished my love for Freddy and Jason.

[bosk1]

He didn't "get" one.  He just decided to name himself after an existing one that nobody knew about. 

Kinda like (on topic): 

[Zook]

Oh, well, I WANT ONE DADDEH! I WANT IT NOW!

[MykeHavoc]

I too like Wolverine. I also think X3 is the best, so what do I know

I'm also excited at the prospect of the Deadpool movie. The producer was just talking about it being a hard R and a revamp of the character that ignores the events of Wolverine to get him more comic book accurate, so that should be cool.

[bosk1]

Oh, well, I WANT ONE DADDEH! I WANT IT NOW!

You have 3, nooblet.  Quit complaining.

[Zook]

Oh, well, I WANT ONE DADDEH! I WANT IT NOW!

You have 3, nooblet.  Quit complaining.

I don't even like Leatherface that much.

I HATE YOU! I WISH I HAD NEVER BEEN BORN!!!

[bosk1]

[Zook]

I'm your daddy now!

HAAAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!