Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album

[Nick]

Start fresh. Most of the fans would know who they are and a name change would be the best way to distance themselves from the taint of Tate.

Yeah, starting fresh has a nice ring to it, but do you enjoy burning barrels of cash and future cash in your backyard? I'm guessing not, and I guess they don't either.

[KevShmev]

Start fresh. Most of the fans would know who they are and a name change would be the best way to distance themselves from the taint of Tate.

I doubt it.  Sure, most online fans who are aware of the circumstances would, but there'd be plenty of fans who would have no idea. 

[Mister Gold]

Start fresh. Most of the fans would know who they are and a name change would be the best way to distance themselves from the taint of Tate.

I doubt it.  Sure, most online fans who are aware of the circumstances would, but there'd be plenty of fans who would have no idea.

Yeah, my initial opinion was for them to start fresh as Rising West, back when people were wondering if they were going to oust Tate from Queensryche or not.

But I soon realized that a lot of people had no idea what was going on with the band and I've heard plenty of reports from others that ran into folks at recent QR concerts that were shocked to hear that Tate had been fired from Queensryche. So yeah, they really do need the band name.

[Nick]

Start fresh. Most of the fans would know who they are and a name change would be the best way to distance themselves from the taint of Tate.

I doubt it.  Sure, most online fans who are aware of the circumstances would, but there'd be plenty of fans who would have no idea. 

Absolutely. Still I hear plenty of stories of clueless fans going to see one incarnation or another and being surprised that Geoff Tate or the band isn't there. And the Queensryche name carries a tremendous amount of equity with it. I'm sure getting to reference it in some way was a BIG sticking point for Geoff Tate in the settlement.

[KevShmev]

A groups of friends ended up talking to a guy about music in a bar about two years ago, and when Dream Theater came up, he was like, "Oh yeah, I love them!"  But when I said, "What do you think of the new drummer?", he was like, "Wait, they have a new drummer? What happened to Mike Portnoy?"  And this was more than a year after he had left, and after ADTOE was already out, so yeah, people who aren't internet dorks like us don't always know the inside and outs of their favorite bands.

[ZirconBlue]

And there are probably plenty of folks who might go see a "Queensryche" show, based only on knowing their hits from the 90s, but would pay no attention to a "Rising West" show.

[ZKX-2099]

Start fresh. Most of the fans would know who they are and a name change would be the best way to distance themselves from the taint of Tate.

Yeah, starting fresh has a nice ring to it, but do you enjoy burning barrels of cash and future cash in your backyard? I'm guessing not, and I guess they don't either.

I think the damage to the QR name was done by the time Dedicated To Chaos came out. Any decrease in revenue would have to be at least a lateral move.

Also.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queensr%C3%BFche_%28album%29#Chart_performance
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_Unknown#Chart_performance

People know what's up.

[Nick]

Start fresh. Most of the fans would know who they are and a name change would be the best way to distance themselves from the taint of Tate.

Yeah, starting fresh has a nice ring to it, but do you enjoy burning barrels of cash and future cash in your backyard? I'm guessing not, and I guess they don't either.

I think the damage to the QR name was done by the time Dedicated To Chaos came out. Any decrease in revenue would have to be at least a lateral move.

Also.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queensr%C3%BFche_%28album%29#Chart_performance
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_Unknown#Chart_performance

People know what's up.

I know the S/T album did better, and fans in the know did well to come out and support the band. That said the band is clearly better off, especially in touring, with their name as opposed to a new name.

[Zook]

Apparently they've reached a settlement according to Blabbermouth. I'd link it but I'm on my phone and too lazy to go five feet to my computer.

The original 3 members got the sole rights to the name, but Tate can still perform Mindcrime I & II in their entirety.

[ZirconBlue]

. . . but Tate can still perform Mindcrime I & II in their entirety.

Well, maybe he's allowed to, but I have my doubts as to whether he can.   

[El JoNNo]

Are there any laws preventing a band from playing someone else's album in it's entirety? Do cover bands get away with playing another bands material because it's a variety of songs from different albums?

[Zook]

OK here it is (Queensryche shared the link, so it's legit):

https://blogs.seattletimes.com/soundposts/2014/04/28/its-official-the-battle-over-the-future-of-queensryche-is-settled/

The contentious, long-running legal battle that resulted in two rival versions of Northwest rock band Queensryche has finally been settled.

“We wanted to let Queensryche fans around the world know that an amicable settlement has been reached between Eddie Jackson, Scott Rockenfield, Michael Wilton and Geoff Tate with regard to the future of the Queensryche name,” the two bands said in a joint statement released Sunday night.

The agreement stipulates that original Queensryche members Wilton, Jackson and Rockenfield, as well as newer members Todd LaTorre and Parker Lundgren, will now be the sole band recording and touring as Queensryche, performing songs from a musical catalog that spans more than 30 years.

Original Queensryche lead singer Geoff Tate (who had formed a second version of the band) will perform, record and pursue “other creative endeavors,” but as part of the agreement will have the exclusive right to perform the concept albums “Operation: Mindcrime” and “Operation: Mindcrime II” in unique performances.

Tate will do a brief Queensryche “farewell” tour this summer before launching a new chapter his career.

The Grammy-nominated, progressive heavy-metal band  — which has sold more than 30 million albums worldwide since the early 1980s — split into two separate, acrimonious camps nearly two years ago. A lawsuit resulted in a King County Superior Court ruling that each side could use the same name until the case went to trial or was settled.

According to Wilton, the agreement calls for Queensryche corporate assets to be evenly divided among himself, Jackson, Rockenfield and Tate.

Both sides say they are relieved to settle the dispute and look forward to moving on.

“It’s the rebirth of Queensryche and the way it used to be,” Wilton said by phone last night. “We’re rebuilding the Queensryche name.”

Wilton said the group felt re-energized during a set Saturday night at the M3 Rock Festival in Baltimore, performing along with Tesla, Night Ranger and other bands.

“There was probably a little more adrenalin on stage,” he said. “I think the fans were expecting a mediocre show and when they heard (singer Todd LaTorre), after three or four songs, they completely accepted him and just went ballistic.”

Geoff Tate (photo by Ron Dukeshire)
Geoff Tate (photo by Ron Dukeshire)

Tate is especially pleased that the case was settled outside of a courtroom.

“One thing that’s really important for people to understand is that this never went to court,” he said by phone after returning from a show in Louisiana.

“They (Wilton, Jackson and Rockenfield) bought the name from me. But I retain ‘Operation Mindcrime.’ It’s sort of similar to the Pink Floyd situation where Roger Waters retained ‘The Wall.’ ‘Mindcrime’ was my thing and my story, so it’s appropriate that I keep that. So they will continue on as Queensryche, and I will continue on as me.”

With the lawsuit resolved, Tate is now free to reinvent himself.

The singer has created a new, Seattle-only show, dubbed “Rock and Vaudeville,” that reinterprets the history of rock ‘n’ roll since the ‘50s, featuring songs by Elvis Presley, the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Jimi Hendrix, Queen, AC/DC and other artists. A series of five shows are scheduled May 1-3 at the Triple Door.

“It started out as a project to take my mind away from the court case, because there was so much negativity,” Tate said. “I’m a very creative person, and I like to live in that world of making things up and creating musical pieces and stories. That’s where I operate the best. It’s something I’ve wanted to do for a long time.”

Meanwhile, Wilton and his Queensryche band mates are working on songs for a follow-up to last year’s successful album, “Queensryche,” released by Century Media Records. But the group isn’t planning to do a local show until possibly the fall.

“We’ll definitely do a big re-launch of the band in Seattle,” Wilton said.

[Nel]

Happy for them. Glad to finally get this thing out of the way.

[jjrock88]

nice to see this thing finally done

[Cool Chris]

Original Queensryche lead singer Geoff Tate (who had formed a second version of the band) will perform, record and pursue “other creative endeavors,”

I love how 'other creative endeavors' is in quotes, as if to say "other such bullshit that has nothing to do with quality music."

[Nick]

My favorite bit from Tate is this:

“They (Wilton, Jackson and Rockenfield) bought the name from me. But I retain ‘Operation Mindcrime.’ It’s sort of similar to the Pink Floyd situation where Roger Waters retained ‘The Wall.’ ‘Mindcrime’ was my thing and my story, so it’s appropriate that I keep that. So they will continue on as Queensryche, and I will continue on as me.”

Implication is that he had the rights to the name and out of the kindness of his heart sold it to the other guys since he wanted to just pursue his artistic vision. What a load of bull.

[Anguyen92]

Are there any laws preventing a band from playing someone else's album in it's entirety? Do cover bands get away with playing another bands material because it's a variety of songs from different albums?

Hmmmm, I don't think there is any laws preventing a band from playing someone's album in its entirety.  It is another story if that band wants to do a pro-shot (DVDs, TVs, etc).  I heard somewhere that people in the GNR camp kinda blocked Slash's Live DVD in Stoke in the US back around 2011 due to Axl owning the name and rights to the GNR songs that was shown in that DVD. 

I'm not too sure how it works.  I like to know how these things work as well.

So, I guess if LaTorre-fronted Queensryche wants to do a live dvd and they play songs from Operation Mindcrime on it, they have to pay a certain amount of money to Geoff Tate to get that right to release it, or is it the other way around?

[Mladen]

Good to know that the thing is finally settled. 

[Nick]

LaTorre-fronted Queensryche

Not that is wasn't the case before, but now officially, it's simply Queensryche.

[Anguyen92]

Ok, fair enough, but I'm still asking the question.  So if Queensryche wanted to do a live DVD and play songs from Operation Mindcrime, can they release it without Geoff Tate meddling?

[Nick]

The way I read the release is that Tate can perform the whole album in full and promote as such. I would think the rest of the band can probably perform a set number of songs per show and be fine.

[wolfking]

Yeah, I'm sure the band can play songs throughout their set, but I think Tate would have something to say if they wanted to do a full album production live.

Glad this thing is settled and settled in the right way.

[bosk1]

Bottom line on questions like that is:  Whatever the law generally allows may not be relevant here.  Whatever the parties agreed to in their settlement is what will control, and we will likely never know a lot of the specifics of that.

[WebRaider]

Keep seeing "Glad this is settled, over, the end" etc.... does anyone really think this is over, over? 

Seriously I get what everyone is meaning, but we all can expect (especially with Tate) that there will be some shots back and forth and comments from Tate down the road still.

Glad that the name issue is settled for sure. Hoping for more good stuff coming from the band in the not so distant future!

[abydos]

So does that mean that Queensryche can't perform anything from Mindcrime or what? Since Tate reserves the "exclusive" right to perform them in their entirety. Maybe it is just that - can't play the whole album?

[jammindude]

So does that mean that Queensryche can't perform anything from Mindcrime or what? Since Tate reserves the "exclusive" right to perform them in their entirety. Maybe it is just that - can't play the whole album?

The consensus I've read nearly universally across the board is that Queensryche CAN play songs from OMC...but not "full performances".     (and they probably have to kick GT a couple of bucks for every song they play.   As someone mentioned, this is pretty much exactly like the Pink Floyd/Roger Waters situation with The Wall)

[Zook]

How much music did Tate write on O:M? If not that much, why are lyrics the deciding factor on who owns what?

[Nick]

How much music did Tate write on O:M? If not that much, why are lyrics the deciding factor on who owns what?

Tate wrote the lyrics, but 0 of the music. As Bosk eluded to, they can settle however they wish, but it would be a lot more appropriate if Tate could only go to poetry readings and read off his contribution, because really he is only a part of that album.

[Anguyen92]

How much music did Tate write on O:M? If not that much, why are lyrics the deciding factor on who owns what?

Because singers believe that people think that lyrics are the draw of the song and means more than the instrumental part of the song?  But yeah, I agree with your question.  Who in the world declared that the lyrics are above instrumentals?  One could argue that the lyrics are nothing without the instrumental part of the music.

[bl5150]

I have no idea how broadly this is applied but I heard an interesting interview recently with producer Max Norman who was discussing Ozzy's input into the early solo album songs and his share of publishing and it was basically 50% because apparently by far the most heavy weighting in publishing goes to who came up with the lyrics (Daisley etc... with small contribution from Ozzy) and vocal melody lines (almost all Ozzy).   The musicians didn't get much of a look in unless they had input into those areas.

[jammindude]

Well......

To play devil's advocate for a moment, it's different in the case of a concept or story album like OMC or by extension The Wall.   Because *A BIG* part of the draw is the concept.   Revolution Calling (and other portions of the story) struck a chord in the minds of youth at the time.    OMC would not have had *even half* the impact that it did without its concepts.     It captured a mood that a lot of kids were feeling.    Not that it caused a revolution...but people lived vicariously through the idea of revolution.    And the more broken the political system becomes, the more the message will *continue* to resonate with people, and youth in particular.

[jammindude]

Lyrics aren't AS much of a draw when it's something like You Shook Me All Night Long...but there are instances where lyrics *are* a primary draw...

OMC's lyrics and more importantly it's story and concepts are *A HUGE* draw to that album by the majority of people who have heard it and love it.

[Anguyen92]

Lyrics aren't AS much of a draw when it's something like You Shook Me All Night Long...but there are instances where lyrics *are* a primary draw...

OMC's lyrics and more importantly it's story and concepts are *A HUGE* draw to that album by the majority of people who have heard it and love it.

All right, that's a good point.  I hadn't heard of Operation Mindcrime or was aware that it is a concept album.  With these info in mind, I guess it makes sense that Tate got what he wants in the process.

[Zook]

Lyrics aren't AS much of a draw when it's something like You Shook Me All Night Long...but there are instances where lyrics *are* a primary draw...

OMC's lyrics and more importantly it's story and concepts are *A HUGE* draw to that album by the majority of people who have heard it and love it.

All right, that's a good point.  I hadn't heard of Operation Mindcrime or was aware that it is a concept album.  With these info in mind, I guess it makes sense that Tate got what he wants in the process.

[Nick]

I agree that lyrics and concepts can be important, but put O:M's lyrics on Dedicated to Chaos and you'd still have an album no one would listen to.