Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album

[IDontNotDoThings]

Since it seems that HitHF have almost no love, I must say that I truly like the album. The only song on it that I don’t like is Hero (also Chasing the blue sky). Sure it isn’t at the same level of the EP to Promised Land run, but I’ll put just a bit below. Still very worth the Queensryche name IMO,which  I think it’s not the case for Tribe (and it’s the case for the Todd’s albums). I guess the bare bones production is really the biggest barrier to appreciate the album.
Get a life, the voice inside, saved, you, miles away, reach, hit the black and spool to me are really very very good songs!

You're not alone in your appreciation of Hear. I don't love the album, but I do enjoy giving it a listen on occasion. I disagree with you about Tribe, though. I think that it has some very good moments.

The album that I can't stand to listen to is Q2K. I've tried a few times over the years, but I can't find anything redeeming about that record.

WTRC & TRSOMM are amazing songs, but otherwise I agree. Q2K is very not-good.

[Samsara]

I always thought the guitar work in HITNF, while different, was amazing. The solo in Hero, The Voice Inside, You, and then the lead playing in most songs really have this killer touch to it. There's a lot of nuance still to the guitar work that I think because of the production, really went understated. The dry production didn't do the guitars any favors.

[jammindude]

Echoing the sentiment on Q2Krap...

That was supposed to be the return to form album. Biggest disappointment (in relation to expectations) in their entire catalog.  It’s amazing that they managed to write one of their most amazing songs (Right Side) among a sea of overwhelming MEH.

[Grappler]

I'd take Q2K over HITNF any time.  Partially due to the nostalgia of when I got into the band and Q2K being the next new album that they released and seeing them three times on that tour and partially because I think those songs are just better. 

[Nick]

Not saying it's a great album or anything, but Q2K >>>> HitNF.

[Samsara]

Echoing the sentiment on Q2Krap...

That was supposed to be the return to form album. Biggest disappointment (in relation to expectations) in their entire catalog.  It’s amazing that they managed to write one of their most amazing songs (Right Side) among a sea of overwhelming MEH.

I think Right Side is vastly OVERRATED. It's good, but I don't think its nearly as good as the praise it gets. Q2k is summed up for me by Kelly Gray himself in an interview he gave me at S2k1 in June 2001:

Q2k has a healing element on it. Being a little looser on the song writing helped the guys bridge the gap and move forward. It’s not the greatest record, but it’s a good, solid record. It gave the band some confidence that we were able to do it, as I am sure there is a bit of security lost in the ordeal of losing Chris. It was a good kick in the pants. When I signed on, I was full of energy and ready to go. Having me in the band, there was immediate gratification because we were able to record and produce it with no waiting. On Q2k, a lot of those tracks are directly from that spontaneous writing element. They were written and recorded at the same time. “Breakdown” was actually a one-take from a rehearsal. The main portion of it is live.

Looking back now over almost 20 years, I think HITNF is the superior record. The best songs on HITNF are better (for me) than the best songs on Q2k. But there's certainly more filler on HITNF than there is on Q2k. As Kelly said, Q2k is a good record, but not the greatest thing. I've always said that a second record with Kelly likely would have gotten much tighter and better. But who knows.

But HITNF has a complexity (as I mentioned above regarding the guitars) to the songs that Q2k does not have at all. It is an understated complexity, but it is there, and distinctly Queensryche. Whereas Q2k literally puts Kelly Gray in the exact same role Chris had with the band, and if you know Kelly's writing, he's not a technical guitarist who is concerned with nuance. His big thing is chords and groove.

Anyway, the HITNF sessions produced 15 songs (including Chasing Blue Sky). Of those 15, I personally very much like 9 of them. The Q2k sessions produced 13 songs (including Til There Was You, and Howl). Of those 13, I really like 8 of them. Percentage-wise, that would put Q2k ahead of HITNF for me. But I simply like those nine songs on HITNF BETTER than the songs on Q2k.

Both records, IMO, are not nearly as bad as people make them out to be. But both were very different directions for the band. I think the HITNF direction would have ultimately been much more successful had EMI not folded, and the band been given an opportunity to tour Europe and really continue the promotion of the record like EMI had started to (SotT and You did very well at radio). HITNF had that "musical evolution" thread with the QR nuances in it, whereas Q2k sounded like a different band to a degree (the drums had the right sound, but Gray's guitar was dominant and very different than Chris) with Geoff . And Atlantic promoted the hell out of it, and it went nowhere.

Interesting few years in the band's history for sure. Produced some really great songs, and some bad ones, but ultimately, I think HITNF was the better album.

[Mindflux]

It really bums me out that the conversation around QR gets a bit cyclical.  It's generally "well it went to pot at PL (or HITNF)"...

I wish they hadn't squandered the last 20+ years of their career with mediocre releases and half ass (or zero) touring.    I'm sure looking back they might regret some of it too but won't adjust for their future, seemingly.

[Samsara]

It really bums me out that the conversation around QR gets a bit cyclical.  It's generally "well it went to pot at PL (or HITNF)"...

I wish they hadn't squandered the last 20+ years of their career with mediocre releases and half ass (or zero) touring.    I'm sure looking back they might regret some of it too but won't adjust for their future, seemingly.

Agreed. But they had their chances. They picked the wrong guy to replace Chris (and we know why know -- Kelly was Geoff's guy), and the never could manage to make the right decisions. Even with the current lineup -- I think most agree the type of songs they are writing are exactly what the band needs. But they don't play them live, and have embraced being a casino/nostalgia hair metal act.  SMH.

It's just like after EMI folded, and Chris left, Queensryche just couldn't get out of its own way, despite being given numerous opportunities to do so. I really thought that once they fired Tate, and did that first record with Todd, they'd re-embrace metal and make some strides in returning to the metal scene and being more prominent. Instead, they ultimately fell back into the hair metal/nostalgia route, and don't play their new tunes. Final (?) nail in the coffin, I think.

But hey, we'll always have the music. And the new music they come up with is clearly more popular with most fans than the stuff post-PL.

[Kwyjibo]

I'm with Kelly Gray, Q2K is a good record, while HITNF is barely mediocre, and I said it before, I would have liked for them to continue in the Q2K direction and see where it went.

[Mindflux]

Reading these last couple pages prompted me to go back and listen to O:M and Empire. God dang Geoff had a voice on him.  It's a shame he didn't take care of it and keep level headed.

 

[jjrock88]

I tend to think and analyze to myself where Queensryche would have ended up if after Promised Land they decided to completely go back to their original roots and become a full on metal band again. This is obviously rock n roll fantasy as it would require Geoff Tate to be much more interested in heavy metal.

But I always wonder if after the PL tour and subsequent break were done, and the band regrouped and decided that the mainstream attempt was done (empire) and their experimentation phase (PL) is complete. And as a band, they wanted to go full on hard rock/metal, but with a modern progressive touch. I tend to think of a combination of Nevermore, Dream Theater and Symphony X.

What would the legacy of the band have been? I think their popularity would have been on par with Dream Theater for sure; which is something I think is deserving for Queensryche.

But when the die hard fans (people in this thread) are tending to grasp at straws trying to find reasons to like all the post PL albums, that clearly doesn't bode well for much success beyond the hardcores. I'm just as guilty of that too lol.....I think if I made a single album from the albums HITNF until OM2, it would be a pretty kick ass album. But thats 20 years of albums, so that's not a great sign.

But like I mentioned, I do wonder "what if" sometimes if the band made a different musical direction choice after PL to go full hard rock/metal what that would have lead to. And obviously if the band continued to get along and nobody left.

[TAC]

I think that was the longest JJ post I've ever read.

[T-ski]

every time I see this thread bumped I think there is an update on the new album.

but there isn't.

[Mindflux]

Listening to PL this morning.  "Someone Else?" is really something.

[IDontNotDoThings]

Listening to PL this morning.  "Someone Else?" is really something.

I was going to post something here a few weeks ago about how Someone Else (both versions) basically brought me to tears, but I thought it'd be too randomly emotional, considering what we were discussing in the thread at the time.

But yeah... they did... 

[Samsara]

I tend to think and analyze to myself where Queensryche would have ended up if after Promised Land they decided to completely go back to their original roots and become a full on metal band again. This is obviously rock n roll fantasy as it would require Geoff Tate to be much more interested in heavy metal.

But I always wonder if after the PL tour and subsequent break were done, and the band regrouped and decided that the mainstream attempt was done (empire) and their experimentation phase (PL) is complete. And as a band, they wanted to go full on hard rock/metal, but with a modern progressive touch. I tend to think of a combination of Nevermore, Dream Theater and Symphony X.

What would the legacy of the band have been? I think their popularity would have been on par with Dream Theater for sure; which is something I think is deserving for Queensryche.

But when the die hard fans (people in this thread) are tending to grasp at straws trying to find reasons to like all the post PL albums, that clearly doesn't bode well for much success beyond the hardcores. I'm just as guilty of that too lol.....I think if I made a single album from the albums HITNF until OM2, it would be a pretty kick ass album. But thats 20 years of albums, so that's not a great sign.

But like I mentioned, I do wonder "what if" sometimes if the band made a different musical direction choice after PL to go full hard rock/metal what that would have lead to. And obviously if the band continued to get along and nobody left.

To be honest with you, I don't think a "return to metal" after PL would have been possible. DeGarmo's interests changed as well. He was into really great guitar work (as I think PL and HITNF showed), but I think the days of "Queen of the Reich," and "En Force" were never going to happen again. The riffs would have been there, as his contributions to Tribe showed (Art of Life, Justified), but the style was more mid-tempo.

I remember Michael saying to me that the band (I think this was pre-Chris returning for Tribe) sat down with Tate and said that they'd welcome a shift to something more mid-tempo, but it'd have to be heavy like TOOL, and they could write those kinds of songs. But Geoff (at the time), according to Michael, wasn't into it, so he went and got outside writers (Mike Stone, his solo band - again, think 2002, prior to Chris coming back). That sorta drove a wedge between them. With Tribe, you'll notice some of the songs have that vibe in the riffs. And then there are other tunes that are more acoustic based.

So, if QR was able to "return to metal," it wouldn't be the metal of EP-Rage. It'd be probably be something in the vein of songs such as Desert Dance, Tribe, Damaged, Art of Life, Justified...but I think more of an emphasis on mid-tempo heaviness, as opposed to scorchers. But you never know, I mean look at how Tate sang Re-Arrange You on Mindcrime II. Imagine that song was driven by guitar instead of orchestration...that would have been a return to old school...

Listening to PL this morning.  "Someone Else?" is really something.

Love that song. My favorite version is the live one though, where Michael comes in on guitar after the first verse, and then Eddie and Scott...wonderful tune.

[Grappler]

This is just getting silly.  They've played brat fests in Wisconsin, water parks and theme parks.  And now, Queensryche is headling the Feast of the Blessed Sacrament! 

Also headlining on other nights...an oldies cover band and a touring Queen tribute act. 

Yes, it's a legitimate Portuguese festival in Massachusetts, but it's just heartbreaking to see my once favorite band reduced to playing festivals like this for money.  The association of playing such fests and sharing headliner status with cover bands and tribute bands drives me crazy.

https://feastoftheblessedsacrament.com/

[Phoenix87x]

Wow, that's veering near spinal tap territory

[MirrorMask]

Can't wait for them to play Suite Sister Mary there

[bosk1]

I also thought the apology to Ty Tabor was a good one. It wasn't Slater's fault, as he said, Tabor contributed a solo to Frequency Unknown thinking it was for Tate's solo record. But the Tates apparently never told Tabor it was for that fake QR album. What a cluster. And for you Ty/King's X fans out there, Slater got an email back from Tabor already about it, and Ty appreciated the public apology.

That's interesting.  I don't know if you remember, but Meniketti was in a somewhat similar situation.  When I asked him publicly why he would contribute to Geoff's album under the circumstances, and laid out what was going on, Dave basically said he was blindsided and didn't know any of that.  As far as he was concerned, he was just contributing a guitar solo on a friend's solo album because that is what he was asked to do.  I don't think he felt duped the way it sounds like Ty did.  But he obviously didn't have the full picture either.

I remember Michael saying to me that the band (I think this was pre-Chris returning for Tribe) sat down with Tate and said that they'd welcome a shift to something more mid-tempo, but it'd have to be heavy like TOOL, and they could write those kinds of songs. But Geoff (at the time), according to Michael, wasn't into it, so he went and got outside writers (Mike Stone, his solo band - again, think 2002, prior to Chris coming back). That sorta drove a wedge between them. With Tribe, you'll notice some of the songs have that vibe in the riffs. And then there are other tunes that are more acoustic based.

I have always thought that.  I think you can even hear a strong mid-tempo Tool vibe in The Great Divide as well, despite that being a softer tune.  I remember talking with a guy about the album on the drive to Concord for the DT/QR/FW show in 2003, and he was saying that to me.  I hadn't picked up on the Tool vibe in that song before he mentioned it, and I immediately tried to shoot him down and was saying how I definitely could hear that influence on songs like Open and The Art of Life, but definitely NOT on TGD.  But then I listened to the song with that in mind, and it was SO obvious that I now can't NOT hear Tool when I listen to that song.

[ReaperKK]

This is just getting silly.  They've played brat fests in Wisconsin, water parks and theme parks.  And now, Queensryche is headling the Feast of the Blessed Sacrament! 

Also headlining on other nights...an oldies cover band and a touring Queen tribute act. 

Yes, it's a legitimate Portuguese festival in Massachusetts, but it's just heartbreaking to see my once favorite band reduced to playing festivals like this for money.  The association of playing such fests and sharing headliner status with cover bands and tribute bands drives me crazy.

https://feastoftheblessedsacrament.com/

I mean if that's where they want to play that's where they play. I'm curious how much they get paid for a gig like that.

I remember going to RibFest in Florida once where the headliner was a very, very drunk David Lee Roth

[jingle.boy]

I went to a weekend community food/music festival in the city I grew up in last summer, and Loverboy was headlining.  I was told they their rates were $40k-$50k for that 90 minutes.  LOVERBOY!

[romdrums]

I went to a weekend community food/music festival in the city I grew up in last summer, and Loverboy was headlining.  I was told they their rates were $40k-$50k for that 90 minutes.  LOVERBOY!

Everybody's workin' for the weekend.

[King Postwhore]

I went to a weekend community food/music festival in the city I grew up in last summer, and Loverboy was headlining.  I was told they their rates were $40k-$50k for that 90 minutes.  LOVERBOY!

Everybody's workin' for the weekend.

No kidding.

[bosk1]

I went to a weekend community food/music festival in the city I grew up in last summer, and Loverboy was headlining.  I was told they their rates were $40k-$50k for that 90 minutes.  LOVERBOY!

Yeah, but because they had hit singles that crossed over into pop, I would bet their guarantees are higher than Queensryche's.  And that really isn't all that much money.  Let's be very modest and assume their overhead (travel costs, crew, rigging, etc.) is $10,000.  That brings them down to $30k-$40k.  Divided by 5 members (do they have 5?), that's $6k-$8k per person.  And that's BEFORE tax.  I mean, yeah, it's not bad money for playing a gig.  But it's not going to make you rich either, unless you are a road dog and have a bunch of gigs. 

[goo-goo]

I went to a weekend community food/music festival in the city I grew up in last summer, and Loverboy was headlining.  I was told they their rates were $40k-$50k for that 90 minutes.  LOVERBOY!

Yeah, but because they had hit singles that crossed over into pop, I would bet their guarantees are higher than Queensryche's.  And that really isn't all that much money.  Let's be very modest and assume their overhead (travel costs, crew, rigging, etc.) is $10,000.  That brings them down to $30k-$40k.  Divided by 5 members (do they have 5?), that's $6k-$8k per person.  And that's BEFORE tax.  I mean, yeah, it's not bad money for playing a gig.  But it's not going to make you rich either, unless you are a road dog and have a bunch of gigs.

Yep. It's all about the guaranteed money. I have a Fates Warning contract from their Inside Out days I believe (or might have been No Exit, can't quite remember), and their guarantee fee was $500. Not sure how much $500 was back in the day though. 

[gzarruk]

Still nothing on the new album?

[TAC]

Yep. It's all about the guaranteed money. I have a Fates Warning contract from their Inside Out days I believe (or might have been No Exit, can't quite remember), and their guarantee fee was $500. Not sure how much $500 was back in the day though.

Pretty sure it was $500.

[Setlist Scotty]

I have a Fates Warning contract from their Inside Out days I believe (or might have been No Exit, can't quite remember), and their guarantee fee was $500. Not sure how much $500 was back in the day though.

Just looked at an inflation calculator online. If it was for Inside Out (1994), then that would be worth about $845 in today's money. If it was for No Exit (1988), then that would be worth about $1068 today.

[abydos]

Some dudes react to Eyes of a Stranger - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCypSykI2tk

Pretty cool.

[bosk1]

Interesting blog post:  https://www.anybodylistening.net/top10underrated.html

This is Queensryche's top 10 most underrated songs.  My list would look very different.  But cool topic.

[Mladen]

I can stand behind some of those choices very confidently, especially One more time. My number one pick would probably be Lady Jane, though.

[Kwyjibo]

My list would also look very different with Lady Jane very high, and of the top of my head probably Sign Of The Times, One And Only and Gonna Get Close To You would be there also.

But is Della Brown really underrated? I had the impression that a lot of people like it.

[TAC]

I scanned the list only because it's Brian.

No Sanctuary is easily a TAC Top 10 QR song. Love it. I don't underrate it.

I actually also think that One More Time is a pretty decent tune.

[Peter Mc]

One More Time is easily my favourite song on PL, that guitar solo alone is just epic. Not sure about some of the other choices but is Della Brown not considered a classic, that’s an amazing song.