Author Topic: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album  (Read 694602 times)

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Offline Kwyjibo

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2485 on: May 03, 2017, 06:55:40 AM »
So basically I just want to see the current band continue and do as well as they can.

Amen to that. I'd be totally fine with another couple of records of equal quality like the last two.
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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2486 on: May 03, 2017, 07:19:55 AM »
If you add in Chris DeGarmo you obviously excite a lot of people, myself included, HOWEVER I can't support that move if it means Parker gets the boot. That guy has been friendly, dedicated to the job, and a great fit. I understand business wise DeGarmo for Parker is a no brainer, but for Parker's sake I don't want to see it happen.

I have an idea!






So basically I just want to see the current band continue and do as well as they can.

Amen to that. I'd be totally fine with another couple of records of equal quality like the last two.

Amen to the Amen!
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2487 on: May 03, 2017, 07:44:01 AM »
If you add in Chris DeGarmo you obviously excite a lot of people, myself included, HOWEVER I can't support that move if it means Parker gets the boot. That guy has been friendly, dedicated to the job, and a great fit. I understand business wise DeGarmo for Parker is a no brainer, but for Parker's sake I don't want to see it happen.

I have an idea!






So basically I just want to see the current band continue and do as well as they can.

Amen to that. I'd be totally fine with another couple of records of equal quality like the last two.

Amen to the Amen!

Yeah, I thought of the Maiden thing as well, and while I'd be completely fine with that, three guitars can be a bit much at times.

I think from a practical sense my PERFECT scenario is that Chris, not wanting to be part of the limelight and drama goes into the studio and writes with the band, maybe records as well, and then leaves the guys to go out and tour. The problem with that route is they would be paying him and getting the least out of it from a business sense. I think they may make a great album, but sadly those don't make money anymore. Only having him out on the road will benefit them financially.
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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2488 on: May 03, 2017, 07:46:40 AM »
Just wondering, when was the last time Chris has spoken publicly about Queensryche? Has he said anything interesting about QR in the last few years?
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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2489 on: May 03, 2017, 08:19:49 AM »
Just wondering, when was the last time Chris has spoken publicly about Queensryche? Has he said anything interesting about QR in the last few years?

Probably not since he assisted the band in writing Justified, on the last greatest hits collection that came out about 8-10 years ago.

I think it's safe to say that Chris doesn't feel the need to come back to the band.  He has had his own career for 20 years now.  The only way I could see him coming back is if the band did one final show in Seattle before hanging it up for good.  He may not want to tour, but I think he might show up at a career-ending concert close to home.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2490 on: May 03, 2017, 08:21:08 AM »
Okay, and what then? Do they earn enough money with a reunion tour that they can retire?

Because, unless they are extremely lucky, everything else they do after hypothetically ending QR with the hypothetically reunion tour will generate far less income than the Todd fronted QR does now. So I don't know where the motivation to reunite with Tate would be coming from.

The only one who would profit from a reunion is Tate imo.

Yeah, I think a reunion would definitely draw significantly more than what each of the separate entities draws now, especially if it is billed as a farewell tour.  As far as "what then?," I don't think it's that hard to figure out what they would do, at least in general terms.  What have other bands done?  They would milk the farewell/Mindcrime thing for everything it is worth, touring every possible place they can tour.  Then even if Chris has to cut it short and go back to the day job, they feed on that momentum and still tour it out without him to wring every last drop out of it, and then they go their separate ways.  Todd and Parker have made enough of a reputation for themselves in terms of their public personas that they will surely have opportunities.  Tate will continue doing his solo thing, which will probably have gotten a boost and won back some fans by "burying the hatchet" with his old bandmates.  Ed, Scott, and Whip will continue doing other projects and music-related things to make ends meet.  ...and then they will inevitably "come out of retirement because YOU wouldn't let us leave!" when the bank accounts need a bit of a shot in the arm.  That's the pattern.

So basically I just want to see the current band continue and do as well as they can.

Agreed.  I'm not saying I want them to do a reunion tour and then pack it up.  I'm just saying, I am seeing things that could indicate the end isn't far off. 

I have an idea!


Yeah, I thought of that as well.  But I quickly dismissed the idea simply for budgetary reasons.  Even with original lineup doing a Mindcrime anniversary tour (hypothetically), they aren't playing anywhere near the size venue or getting anywhere near the size guarantees that Maiden does.  So adding a 6th band member to the payroll is pretty significant.

Look, I'm not advocating for them to do this and boot Parker.  I'm just saying, it is a plausible scenario. 
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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2491 on: May 03, 2017, 10:14:21 AM »
My .02 - I think the writing is on the wall for current Queensryche. It is HARD out there to survive as a touring headliner that plays clubs.  I know some guys in bands of QR's caliber, and when I asked about touring, they basically said it is getting more difficult each year to do it, financially. What I think will happen for Queensryche is that these casino/hairband pairings will continue to increase, minimizing the amount of shows, but maximizing profit (most of those fly-ins pay well, and accommodations come with it).

I'm not saying fly-ins are the only shows they will do, in the next few years, but I think you'll see Queensryche co-headlining clubs now, and continuing the 80-85-minute sets and more six-to-eight week runs, as opposed to a full on tour. And the "tours" will get shorter, in favor of those fly-ins. One more record, and in my opinion, that will probably be the end of Queensryche in terms of new music. They'll probably then embrace more of a "retirement" plan, and then start limiting shows to those fly-ins. Probably over the next four years.

I think Todd's comments on certain heavier elements and styles not being right for Queensryche speaks volumes about where the band is. They probably wouldn't come out and say it, but in my opinion, they've likely made a decision to play things safe from here on out with their records. I wouldn't expect any left-hand turns or "growth" from them in new directions. And to be honest, for a certain segment of the fan base, that is probably really appealing.

Regarding any reunion with Tate and/or DeGarmo: The only way I can see it happening is if there is a HUGE offer on the table, ala Dokken in Japan, that is run by the best in the business, management-wise. Some limited run, with the original band, and once done, everyone goes back to what they are doing. But I still find that to be unlikely, because to be honest, DeGarmo doesn't strike me as that kind of guy. He doesn't need more money. Has plenty. He enjoys life, he loves music, and does it with his daughter and writes for himself. But Chris cares about his professionalism and image as it relates to Queensryche.

Here's a very small example. An old acquaintance of mine is friends with Chris. They play golf at the same club and were having lunch post-golf. This was post-settlement, probably fall 2014. Folks recognized Chris, and came back with a QR CD, and asked him to sign. Not only did Chris take the time to talk to the person, keep eye contact, and make them feel welcome (what Chris always does), he signed the CD liner insert, and then blew on the marker to make sure that autograph wouldn't smear because he knew how important it was to that particular fan.

That may seem like a small detail to a lot of people, but honestly, it's not common. Most guys sign and move on. But Chris cares about the details. In short -- Chris' reputation as a member of Queensryche and that legacy is very important to him, and in my opinion, he's not going to get together with them just to make a buck. The other guys may not care about that "legacy" thing, but Chris' actions (and inaction regarding things) show me that he most certainly does.

That's why I don't think he'd involve himself with the current band, or with Geoff's side project. It would look like he was favoring one over the other, and he's always tried to avoid that. Perhaps, if a farewell tour was arranged, and the money was there for everyone else, and QR was playing amphitheater sized stages again like they did on HITNF and PL, he'd consider it, if it was something that could be done to the standards they had when he was in the band. Or a final record, done properly, with the original band and a farewell tour. But outside of something with finality, connected with the original band, I think DeGarmo will contently stay out of all of it. He's wisely kept himself wisely above all of it for a long time. He's met Todd. If he wanted to work with him, and get involved with current Queensryche, he would have.

And do I think any of that  original lineup reunion stuff will actually happen? Not really. Probably 30 percent yes, 70 percent no. And those odds likely will significantly decrease further over the next few years.

Now, in regard to Tate: IMO, Tate is probably angling to trot out Mindcrime (as bosk said) in 2018 for the 30th. I just don't see him and his Mindcrime band getting big offers to do it. He saturated people with it over and over again. But that's probably his angle. He might garner SOME interest if he was able to lure someone from current Queensryche over, but the only one I think would be likely would be Scott. And I still think it is a long shot, given how Scott is currently taking time off the road (he wasn't and isn't a big fan of long tours). So it really doesn't look feasible for Tate to pull anyone out of QR to make it more attractive. So Mindcrime 30 may happen for Tate, but not at the level it probably deserves, that's for sure.

As for Tate and his voice, I saw him on the acoustic tour this spring. And I have to say, it was very enjoyable. He was in his element, honestly. His vocals sounded good, and he sang well against the acoustic backdrop. Not sure why he sounds different over electric instrumentation, but his power, tone and control were very good. Yes, his range is significantly lower. But range isn't everything. I went in expecting nothing. And he surprised me with how much fun he had, and how relaxed and good he sounded. Say what you want about Tate's actions. They are what they are. I certainly had a problem with it. But he's moved on, and they've moved on, and at the end of the day, as a fan, I just want to enjoy the music.

But I personally don't expect Queensryche to reunite with Tate without DeGarmo being a part of it. And I don't think DeGarmo would return unless it was the entire original band. And the likelihood of all that happening decreases with each passing year.

I wish them all the best, although personally I think that Todd and Parker are doing the right thing by starting to branch out and do stuff like solo albums and connecting with other bands. Makes good sense, given the direction QR seems to be turning.
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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2492 on: May 03, 2017, 10:34:18 AM »
Great post.

@Samsara

Do you know if the QR made more money by doing the campaign for their newest disc?

Offline bosk1

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2493 on: May 03, 2017, 10:34:29 AM »
That's why I don't think he'd involve himself with the current band, or with Geoff's side project. It would look like he was favoring one over the other, and he's always tried to avoid that. Perhaps, if a farewell tour was arranged, and the money was there for everyone else, and QR was playing amphitheater sized stages again like they did on HITNF and PL, he'd consider it, if it was something that could be done to the standards they had when he was in the band. Or a final record, done properly, with the original band and a farewell tour. But outside of something with finality, connected with the original band, I think DeGarmo will contently stay out of all of it. He's wisely kept himself wisely above all of it for a long time. He's met Todd. If he wanted to work with him, and get involved with current Queensryche, he would have.
First off, great post.  Second, I agree wholeheartedly with the quoted part above, and something along those lines is what I was suggesting might be an unlikely possibility.  Yeah, it's an outside chance.  But as time has passed, I now think it is possible, whereas if you asked me two years ago, I would have just laughed at the prospect.

And do I think any of that  original lineup reunion stuff will actually happen? Not really. Probably 30 percent yes, 70 percent no. And those odds likely will significantly decrease further over the next few years.

Hmm, interesting.  I agree with the odds (and maybe might call it even longer than 30%).  But I'm not so sure about the odds decreasing as time goes by.  I think the odds might actually increase, for a couple of reason:  (1) As time passes, I think it gets easier and easier for time to heal the wounds/blur the memories/blunt the emotions of what happened prior to the split.  (2) As time passes, financial pressure likely increases as interest in Queensryche and Tate continue to decline, and that can create a level of desperation that could drive them together.

Not saying I am definitely right.  And I'm not even really disagreeing so much as just offering a possible different take.  But I think there are factors that could likely come into play that make the odds better farther down the road, even if they lose the "anniversary" opportunity.  If they hypothetically billed a reunion/retirement tour as a reboot of the Building Empires tour, I think promoters would be all over the possibility of shows featuring all of Mindcrime and a good chunk of Empire with the original lineup.  And a bunch of the lost bandwagon fans would be back in seats.  That's a factor that shouldn't be overlooked.

As for Tate and his voice, I saw him on the acoustic tour this spring. And I have to say, it was very enjoyable. He was in his element, honestly. His vocals sounded good, and he sang well against the acoustic backdrop. Not sure why he sounds different over electric instrumentation, but his power, tone and control were very good.

I will hazard a guess that a great deal of it is attributable, at least in part, to these factors:
1.  Accoustically, he doesn't have to belt everything.  The songs are more comfortable for him, so he doesn't have to push.
2.  Shorter, less demanding sets mean he doesn't have to engage in bad habits (singing from the neck up) to preserve his voice for as long, so he can sing relatively "properly" without having to worry as much about tiring out before the end of the show.
3.  Maybe, just maybe, he made a bit of effort to take a bit better care of his voice knowing that, over soft acoustic music, flaws would look/sound more glaring.

I think 1 and 2 are likely to have come into play to some degree at least.

« Last Edit: May 03, 2017, 11:18:02 AM by bosk1 »
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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2494 on: May 03, 2017, 11:15:02 AM »
great post Brian

Offline Kwyjibo

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2495 on: May 03, 2017, 01:59:58 PM »
Regarding Tate's voice, you said before that he sounded good on that acoustic set and part of it may be the things bosk mentioned. And if he has taken care of his voice and dropped that nasally whining that he's done for some time I believe he can deliver powerful and emotional vocals but, and this is a big but, he can't get back the range and those Mindcrime songs are all about that range. I can't imagine Tate doing them justice and I don't think those songs work when down tuned.

I could imagine some Empire and Promised Land songs sounding good again if he puts in the effort, but as others have mentioned he will probably squeeze every last bit out of Mindcrime.
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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2496 on: May 03, 2017, 02:15:09 PM »
Goo, bosk, jj -- thanks.


Do you know if the QR made more money by doing the campaign for their newest disc?


No, I don't. I'm not involved with them at all.

First off, great post.  Second, I agree wholeheartedly with the quoted part above, and something along those lines is what I was suggesting might be an unlikely possibility.  Yeah, it's an outside chance.  But as time has passed, I now think it is possible, whereas if you asked me two years ago, I would have just laughed at the prospect.

I feel pretty strongly that DeGarmo won't work with either "side." It hasn't been his MO to get involved with a splintered off sect of the band, and I don't think that's changing.

For the other scenarios, as shitty as it is to say, money talks. In my opinion, if for some strange reason, someone came calling with a bus full of cash, I think the other four original members would line up to take it in this order of priority -- Rockenfield, Tate, Jackson, Wilton. You can always apologize and say the right things publicly to make something believable. And as we saw over the years, once "Tateryche" firmly took hold in the mid-2000s, that's what it all pretty much came to be about -- money. Who's getting it, how much are they getting, and how can they make more.

I think Tate is likely stretching the truth a little bit when he says (paraphrasing here) they were never friends, but business associates. Sure, they might not all have been TIGHT, but they were friends in the past. They simply grew apart without Chris, and as the money and power shifted around. That happens. And it takes a lot of work to reconnect on any sort of personal level, which ultimately drives the artistic level, and it's harder when you're older, and more set in  your ways. It's not a unique situation at all. But there is some "connection" or "bond" they all have. And DeGarmo has stated it in the past (again paraphrasing) - the musical chemistry between the five of them is there. It's proven. It produces great things. But all the other factors (money, control, egos, etc.) got in the way. I think that chemistry is less solid between Tate-Rock-Jackson-Wilton when DeGarmo is not involved. He's always been the glue.

But if someone offered up big-time cash, and it wasn't predicated on Chris being with them, I think they'd find a way to make it happen. But again, all just my personal gut feeling on it, based on what has happened over the last five years.

Quote from: bosk1

Hmm, interesting.  I agree with the odds (and maybe might call it even longer than 30%).  But I'm not so sure about the odds decreasing as time goes by.  I think the odds might actually increase, for a couple of reason:  (1) As time passes, I think it gets easier and easier for time to heal the wounds/blur the memories/blunt the emotions of what happened prior to the split.  (2) As time passes, financial pressure likely increases as interest in Queensryche and Tate continue to decline, and that can create a level of desperation that could drive them together.

Not saying I am definitely right.  And I'm not even really disagreeing so much as just offering a possible different take.  But I think there are factors that could likely come into play that make the odds better farther down the road, even if they lose the "anniversary" opportunity.  If they hypothetically billed a reunion/retirement tour as a reboot of the Building Empires tour, I think promoters would be all over the possibility of shows featuring all of Mindcrime and a good chunk of Empire with the original lineup.  And a bunch of the lost bandwagon fans would be back in seats.  That's a factor that shouldn't be overlooked.

Perhaps. You're not wrong at all. But the one factor you're not listing there is relevancy. As time goes on, Queensryche becomes less and less relevant, given their current trajectory (as discussed), and Tate's declining appeal. So while I grant you those two reasons you listed could very well be right, the wildcard is the fact that promoters will likely care less and less as time goes on. It would have been huge after Mindcrime II. Now, after the split, and after each side released some records, and both are starting to not be as successful on the road? Not so much, from a relevancy standpoint.

As a completely selfish fan, I would love to see the original lineup of Queensryche put out a modern hard rock/metal progressive album worthy of the band's legacy, and a final tour that celebrates that last record, and the band's history, and calls it a day. For me, and I am sure thousands of others, that would be the ultimate closure, and everyone can ride off into the sunset satisfied.

But as a realist, I just don't see it happening unless SO MANY of the factors we've discussed above fall into place. And that's really tough. If everyone is happy separately, and can survive and retire, then why do it, ya know? Tate seemed genuinely comfortable and happy with what he's doing. Queensryche is satisfied with what they are doing. And DeGarmo is living what appears to be a successful and comfortable life.

Anyway, from a positive point of view, as I said, everyone seems pretty happy and content now. And that's a very good thing. While people like myself and others who wish the original lineup would get back together sort of "lose," in the end, we've got seven or eight great studio releases, and that's a lot more than most bands get.  :)
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2497 on: May 03, 2017, 02:30:31 PM »
Perhaps. You're not wrong at all. But the one factor you're not listing there is relevancy. As time goes on, Queensryche becomes less and less relevant, given their current trajectory (as discussed), and Tate's declining appeal. So while I grant you those two reasons you listed could very well be right, the wildcard is the fact that promoters will likely care less and less as time goes on.

Very true.  But to keep the speculation train rumbling down the tracks (because why not?), imagine this:  2017 bosk and Samsara travel back in time to the mid-'90s and say, "Hey, you know what, mid-'90s bosk and Samsara?  In 2017, there will be these festivals called M3, the Monsters of Rock Cruise, and a bunch of others, where all the '80s bands come and play, including Queensryche, Stryper, Y&T, Great White, Ratt, Dokken, Faster Pussycat, Lita Ford, Kix, Loverboy, Cinderella, and a bunch of others."  I'm gonna guess mid-'90s bosk and Samsara say something like, "Yeah, right.  Those bands are barely relevant anymore.  And time will only make them less so."  Just sayin'...  ;)
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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2498 on: May 03, 2017, 05:28:10 PM »
I love a lot of those bands, but you're not wrong at all. There's no way in 1995, I would have put Queensryche and those bands together in terms of relevancy. And at the time, QR was head and shoulders above them. Now, not so much. Same general pot, relevancy-wise. I guess time will tell!
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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2499 on: May 03, 2017, 05:33:08 PM »
In the mean time, since we're time traveling and all, we should go back even farther, abduct a bunch of excellent historic dudes, and then bring them back here for a book report or something.  We could even take them to a mall and possibly a water slide park while we're at it.
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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2500 on: May 03, 2017, 05:44:48 PM »
I love a lot of those bands, but you're not wrong at all. There's no way in 1995, I would have put Queensryche and those bands together in terms of relevancy. And at the time, QR was head and shoulders above them. Now, not so much. Same general pot, relevancy-wise. I guess time will tell!

Always gotta sneak a Fifth Angel reference in there, don'tcha?
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2501 on: May 03, 2017, 05:45:30 PM »
 :lol

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2502 on: May 03, 2017, 05:47:53 PM »
In the mean time, since we're time traveling and all, we should go back even farther, abduct a bunch of excellent historic dudes, and then bring them back here for a book report or something.  We could even take them to a mall and possibly a water slide park while we're at it.

Excellent dude!

 :lol


Always gotta sneak a Fifth Angel reference in there, don'tcha?

There's no getting past you, is there Tim?  :rollin
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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2503 on: May 03, 2017, 06:07:37 PM »

Always gotta sneak a Fifth Angel reference in there, don'tcha?

There's no getting past you, is there Tim?  :rollin



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In all seriousness though, I'm really not sure what to think of the whole Queensryche matter anymore. I enjoyed Condition Human, but the very limited amount of representing that new material live really cuts my enthusiasm for the music. I bet the next QR album will probably be solid, but I just don't know if I'm going to end up caring much about it.
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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2504 on: May 03, 2017, 11:32:47 PM »
In the mean time, since we're time traveling and all, we should go back even farther, abduct a bunch of excellent historic dudes, and then bring them back here for a book report or something.  We could even take them to a mall and possibly a water slide park while we're at it.

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2505 on: May 04, 2017, 03:21:34 AM »
Just wondering, when was the last time Chris has spoken publicly about Queensryche? Has he said anything interesting about QR in the last few years?

Last time was the ESPN interview in 2011(?), I believe - https://www.espn.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/41500/rocker-chris-degarmo

Quote
Well, I'll never say never. I don't know how likely it is though. I'm still on good terms with anyone. I didn't leave on any bad terms. We're still connected and communicating. I don't know. If we could figure it out together how to create a really great album, maybe. I wouldn't do it just to be doing it. We've gotten together a few times so I know we have the chemistry. That's not an issue. We all know we work well togethter.

That was before the split with Tate and I can't imagine he's at all interested in trying to foster a writing relationship with Todd (or Parker).

All I can imagine DeGarmo doing now is a farewell performance, or two, if it came to it.

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2506 on: May 04, 2017, 07:38:20 AM »
LOL...but he said:

Ex-QUEENSRŸCHE Singer GEOFF TATE Is 'Not Really Motivated' To Work Out Differences With His Former Bandmates
Read more at https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/ex-queensryche-singer-geoff-tate-is-not-really-motivated-to-work-out-differences-with-his-former-bandmates/#ppz1ROP6CDuSmexe.99

"The money would be the big driving force that would get everybody together, and I don't need the money, so I'm not really motivated to sit in a room and listen to what I've had to listen to [laughs] with everybody. But, you know, again, never say never."


Offline jjrock88

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2507 on: May 04, 2017, 08:59:35 AM »
Always the "never say never" response lol

Offline bosk1

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2508 on: May 05, 2017, 04:43:56 PM »
Really interesting read:  https://www.anybodylistening.net/scream.html 

Since Samsara isn't here to post it, I will.  The crux of the blog is how single choices, not the era in which it was released, contributed to the album’s decline in sales and mainstream bailing on them.

It is interesting to discuss.  Ultimately, we'll never know for sure.  But I buy into that idea quite a bit.  The choice of singles was really odd, other than Bridge.  My two cents on what they SHOULD have done:  I agree with not releasing I Am I, Disconnected, and Someone Else? as singles.  Those were just not good choices.  They are great songs.  But they are not great singles.  Bridge definitely was a good choice.  It is radio/mainstream-friendly, and isn't a bad song by any means.  Honestly, I think they could have led with that one.  For the marketing cycle of Empire, releasing the title song first was fine.  Queensryche had started really building a following with Mindcrime, but there were still a LOT of people in the more mainstream music market that had no idea who they were prior to Empire.  The title song would have appealed to the existing fanbase and drawn them in.  Then, the more radio-friendly tracks drew in the masses.  Their entire marketing strategy during the Mindcrime and Empire phase of their careers was actually quite brilliant, IMO.  But by PL, the fan base was already established.  So I think offering the heavier Damaged as a lead single rather than the friendlier Bridge would have been a misstep (although not nearly as big a misstep as I Am I).  Bridge would have drawn the fans back, especially those who may have felt like the somewhat-progressive and unconventional The Real World was a cool song, but a little weird.  I think Damaged could have been the ideal third single, bookended by One More Time and My Global Mind.  One More Time would be great for keeping the momentum going and bringing back the rockers who may not have bought into Bridge.  And it is catchy enough that it wouldn't have put off the non-hardcore Lucidity/NutherRainyNight fans.  Then Damaged, lest those still holding out not forget that QR still knew how to drop the heavy.  Then My Global Mind to, as 4th singles often do, simply remind people that the band is still out there, and that they should really pick up the album and a concert ticket if they haven't already. 

Interesting thought on Dirty L'il Secret as a single.  For what it's worth, I'm going to disagree on that one, and here's why:  Timing.  I think timing was definitely a factor in why the album didn't do well, but, as the blog points out, not the factor.  I think DLS would have hurt them because of the timing.  It's a good, fun little song that reminds me a lot of Last Time In Paris in a good way.  But unlike a lot of PL, which is dark, and moody, and deep, and somewhat-progressive, DLS sounds too much like the music of the late '80s and early '90s that the mainstream was moving away from.  I could be wrong, but I don't think it would have done well.

So, that's kind of my take on it.  Not sure what others think.  Again, cool blog entry.
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Offline jjrock88

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2509 on: May 05, 2017, 04:57:58 PM »
I don't think releasing any different songs would have made a huge difference.  It was a different time for music and while all of the songs on Promised Land are very good, none of them scream radio single to me.

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2510 on: May 05, 2017, 05:12:50 PM »
while all of the songs on Promised Land are very good, none of them scream radio single to me.
This is my knee-jerk reaction as well.  But still, the singles they released were objectively the wrong ones.  I think they could have done better.  You are right that it was a different time for music.  But there was still some demand for this album.  It wouldn't have been a smash hit for sure.  But proper promotion could have helped it do better than it did, and singles were still a BIG part of proper album promotion at that time.
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Offline bl5150

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2511 on: May 05, 2017, 06:10:24 PM »
I agree re One More Time.   Much more accessible than most of the album , never seems to get a mention and actually my fave song on the album.
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Offline jjrock88

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2512 on: May 05, 2017, 06:22:11 PM »
I can make a guess that alot of the Queensryche fans at the time only became QR fans in 1990 when Empire was released and the band was firing out radio hit after radio hit.  Once this casual fan listened to a track or two (or the whole thing) of PL once or twice, they passed on the album and never came back to the band.  It clearly wasn't Empire 2 and these fans moved onto another band.  This album is a major grower and you have to put in some time, and most people wouldn't bother.

I really like the one-two punch of Global Mind and One More Time.  I guess I could see One More Time getting a bit more radio play, but I also see it being a song that fades out of the radio spotlight fast.  I wasn't listening to the band at the time so I can only speculate.

Still my favorite track on the album is the title track.  Such a cool tune, but no chance that is getting played on the radio.

I think there was a similar situation when Skid Row released Slave.  People probably expected a self title re hash but instead they got a pure full on metal release.  Not going to be everyone's cup of tea.

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2513 on: May 05, 2017, 06:41:27 PM »
I'll be honest. Hearing Bridge first was an immediate turn off. After Silent Lucidity, it screamed sell out and copycat. Because of that I was extremely suspicious of Promised Land. Turns out I had good reason to be.

would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2514 on: May 06, 2017, 07:09:53 AM »
I agree re One More Time.   Much more accessible than most of the album , never seems to get a mention and actually my fave song on the album.

Mine too.
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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2515 on: May 06, 2017, 10:05:55 AM »
Thanks for posting about it, bosk. And thanks to anyone who read it. I wish I had a blog functionality on the site to enable comments, but I don't.

PL is such an oddity to me. If you look at it as a snapshot, it was exactly opposite of what Empire was. But when you look at it a little closer, it actually is a natural evolution musically for the band. Lyrically, PL was absolutely brilliant (despite being written in such a difficult point for the band members other than Chris, personally), and such a raw introspective look at things the band was going through (or at least Tate).

The funny thing for me personally is that like I am sure many, I didn't get it at first and was disappointed with it. I was in college, and living at home. I remember not knowing the release date, but stopping by the local music shop on my way home from class, and seeing it was out that particular day. I didn't get paid until Friday, so my mother loaned me $20 to go get the CD. I got it home, put it on, and was crushed. LOL. I tried again a day or two later, at night, with headphones, and it clicked, and I never looked back. The older I get, the more I appreciate it, which was exactly what Tate said over the years.

Bands get lucky to have a "timeless" record. Records that are so good, that they really don't become "dated" due to production, lyrics, and style. Queensryche has not one, but TWO of those. Mindcrime and Promised Land. Pretty incredible if you think about it. I totally get why some people may not like it. But it's a hell of an emotional ride for 48 minutes.



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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2516 on: May 09, 2017, 12:54:27 PM »
I agree re One More Time.   Much more accessible than most of the album , never seems to get a mention and actually my fave song on the album.

This and Damaged saved the album from being an Awake style right off to begin with. Love both albums now, but man it took a long time.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2517 on: May 10, 2017, 11:32:37 AM »
I was just thinking the other day that I would like to hear opinions on this forum of Todd.  Even though there isn't a ton of QR discussion on this forum, we aren't as likely to get unfair bias for or against.  And now that Todd has two albums and tours under his belt, I think he can be fairly evaluated.  My two cents:

When I heard the initial covers on YouTube and then saw clips from the Rising West shows, I was ecstatic that the guys were out playing with someone who could do the classic material justice for the first time in a long time.  Time has passed, and we've been able to hear him on two albums, hear some live tracks that have been polished up, and hear lots of unpolished live performances. 

The live shows have been a bit hit and miss, for a few reasons.  Health is definitely one of them.  I did not closely follow a lot of shows like some people did who can better describe how he did from gig to gig.  But I think the time he was sick, he struggled the most and turned in the worst performances.  But he was really a trooper and forged through it.  It even taught him some better technique, as it forced him to learn to sing properly just to get through shows when his throat was not up to par. 

Overall, I REALLY like Todd's live singing.  When it comes to singing the classic material, it's easy to like him simply by comparison because Tate has not been able to do those songs justice for YEARS.  But Todd is a great singer in his own right.  His voice may not naturally be as full as Tate's, but I think he sounds really good on the old material.  I appreciate that he keeps it MOSTLY true to the originals, while injecting just enough of his own style that he doesn't come across as a hired gun in a cover band.  His voice is powerful, emotive, and has a grittiness that adds a heaviness the band didn't really have before.  I also like the occasional screams and growls he does.  Too much would be a turnoff for this kind of music, but I think he has a good feel for when to throw in something occasionally to give a little added flavor and heaviness.  And it is rarely in the forefront, so it isn't distracting.  When he first came out with the band, despite his age, he came out guns blazing.  That was great for the power, energy, and emotion of it all.  But like a younger singer without much experience, he soon learned that wasn't sustainable.  He has matured and dialed it back a bit, which enables him to be more consistent, and that is a good thing. 

Speaking of the live performances, he is a pretty good front man in general.  He has a commanding stage presence, he has enough energy to energizer the crowd, and he just does the things one would expect a metal front man to do.   

In studio, I think Todd has been pretty strong since the beginning--at least in terms of singing.  In terms of writing, I do not think he made good vocal choices early on.  Redemption is a standout example.  Cool song.  But the vocal lines were written in a way that does not show good understanding of what it would take to duplicate that performance live, especially in context of having to sing an entire set of music.  It is just immature songwriting.  The melodies on the second album show a lot of growth.  And Todd also toned down the vocal effects, which is a plus.

Overall, in terms of Todd as a vocalist, I think he is a good fit for the band.  He handles the old material well, and brings a lot to the table that sounds modern and fresh on their new material.  I don't like giving a "grade" or "score," but I would probably give him fairly high marks if I were inclined to rate him that way.  Not perfect, but pretty high.
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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2518 on: May 10, 2017, 11:48:04 AM »
I was just thinking the other day that I would like to hear opinions on this forum of Todd.  Even though there isn't a ton of QR discussion on this forum, we aren't as likely to get unfair bias for or against.  And now that Todd has two albums and tours under his belt, I think he can be fairly evaluated.

Every point that you made seems to be spot on for me. The only addition that I would make is that his attitude when dealing with the fans and carrying himself publicly has been second to none. Even when dealing with questions in interviews about GT he's handled it all with class.

Condition Human didn't really connect with me on a level that I was hoping that it would, but I do recognize the vast improvement that the band as a whole has made. I attribute much of that improvement on TL's presence. I would also grade him very highly for that alone.
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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #2519 on: May 10, 2017, 01:02:17 PM »
Live:

I was at those two Rising West shows. Todd La Torre blew me away. Jaw-dropping. Honestly, from a classic Queensryche fan perspective, it was euphoria. No other way to describe the vibe in the room, particularly the first night. There was so much connection because he was a fan who lived and breathed those songs like all of us in the audience, and he delivered them with such conviction that was just so engaging. I'll never forget it. YouTube doesn't do it justice.

He had some ups and downs performing live since then until the Condition Human tour. The first few years were his first as a touring singer, learning how different climates and situations impact his voice. Add to that his chronic sinus issues, and a lack of vocal training, and he was at times having difficulty being thrown into the fire like that. But I have to say, in 2015 and 2016, and into this year, I think Todd has finally gotten comfortable with his voice, and how to sing the Queensryche songs to best maximize his ability. And he morphed from being at times spotty, to delivering a very consistent live performance night after night, regardless of health. In my book, he gets a lot of credit for that. As a person who appreciates good singing, I've really appreciated that.

As a live singer, I think he knows his limitations even if he doesn't want to focus on them (which from a confidence perspective is wise). For me personally, there was only one Geoff Tate in his prime, and it was pretty unfair on my part, or anyone else's to expect Todd to replicate that. As five years have past now, it's pretty clear his voice is different. He has similar tonal qualities in the upper range, but generally, Todd's voice is thinner and grittier. Because of that, there are certain portions of the QR back catalog that sound amazing when Todd is on, and some songs from the catalog that don't quite sound right, just because the timbre and depth of Todd's voice is simply different. But he has his own voice, and there are some things he can do that Geoff never could, and vice versa.

I have been fortunate enough to have seen Tate live probably 25 times over the years. Todd I've seen 12 or 13. In retrospect, both are more different than people thought they were, and Queensryche is a different animal with each of them at the helm, vocally, and stage presence-wise (Tate is much more dramatic, whereas Todd focuses on crowd interaction). It has changed the band in a live setting drastically. Both good, but different.

Studio:

I'll put it out there -- I think Todd is being vastly underutilized by Queensryche. His vocal style is different than Tate, but because Queensryche fans are so used to Tate, I think the band played it way too safe vocally on both records. And I get that, given realistically how much longer Queensryche likely is going to be around, and the way the fanbase has changed over the years. Condition Human branches out a bit vocally, but it is still very melodic. And Todd is capable of much more. He's basically said that in interviews. This is one area (the studio) I think Todd has yet to blossom in. He's much more of a grittier metal vocalist than an operatic singer. He prefers to add grit, but in Queensryche, he focuses on singing as clean as he can. And that is evident on both records.

For me personally, it's really hard to evaluate Todd as a studio singer in Queensryche, because I honestly don't think he's really shown on a Queensryche album what he's capable of. He's more Phil Anselmo meets Bruce Dickinson than Geoff Tate. And the fact he CAN emulate the 80s era Tate pretty faithfully speaks volumes. But that's not his sweet spot. And if he gets around to releasing a solo record, he'll be in his vocal element and have the chance to show people what he can do.

Lyrically, it seems like Todd and Eddie are the primary lyricists now. It's really a personal thing, ya know? Everyone interprets lyrics in their own way. So I can't really judge, except to say that I really preferred the lyrical combination of Tate and DeGarmo much more. And that's in no way negative toward Queensryche now. I just prefer the classic lyric duo (over Tate doing it all as well, like he did from 1999-2011).

In a nutshell, I think Todd has had very sharp peaks and valleys singing for Queensryche over the past almost five years. But he's now settled into a spot where I think he knows his voice, and knows what he needs to do to be consistent night after night. And that's really a positive for those that are still passionate about the current lineup of the band.
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