Author Topic: Dream Theater's Best Epic (Read 20700 times)

darkshade · « **on:** July 08, 2011, 01:08:46 PM »

The last thread on this topic was too controversial as to what an epic was or a long song, so I'd like this one to be better. I consider a lot of their 10-16 minute songs epic, but these are the choices.

A Change of Seasons (1995)
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence (2002)
Octavarium (2005)
In The Presence of Enemies (2007)
The Count of Tuscany (2009)

These 5 are the only "true" epics, as they are both epic in sound and length, and are truly progressive. Which are your favorites?

1. Octavarium
2. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
3. A Change of Seasons
4. The Count of Tuscany
5. In The Presence of Enemies

Zydar · « **Reply #1 on:** July 08, 2011, 01:09:56 PM »

1. Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
2. A Change of Seasons
3. The Count of Tuscany
4. Octavarium
5. In The Presence of Enemies

FlyingBIZKIT · « **Reply #2 on:** July 08, 2011, 01:12:09 PM »

1. Octavarium
2. Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
3. A Change Of Seasons
4. The Count Of Tuscany
5. In The Presence Of Enemies

The first 4 are very, very close. ITPOE is easily my least, but it's still a great song.

chrisbDTM · « **Reply #3 on:** July 08, 2011, 01:12:51 PM »

1. ACOS
2. 8VM
3. SDOIT
4. TCOT
5. ITPOE

wammabe · « **Reply #4 on:** July 08, 2011, 01:13:25 PM »

1. Change of Seasons
2. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
3. Octavarium
4. In the Presence of Enemies
5. The Count of Tuscany

Places 1, 2, and 3 change places a lot. I don't consider TCOT a real epic though, it just feels like a cool long song with an epic beginning/ending.

Heretic · « **Reply #5 on:** July 08, 2011, 01:14:06 PM »

1. Octavarium
2. The Count of Tuscany
3. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
4. A Change of Seasons
5. In The Presence of Enemies

BlackInk · « **Reply #6 on:** July 08, 2011, 01:15:18 PM »

01 - A Change of Seasons
02 - Octavarium
03 - In the Presence of Enemies
04 - Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
05 - The Count of Tuscany

I don't like TCoT that much (still great though), I'm not even sure Iwould call it an epic.

EDIT: Yeah what wammabe said.

darkshade · « **Reply #7 on:** July 08, 2011, 01:19:26 PM »

I agree that ACOS, SDoIT, and 8V are interchangeable depending on the day/mood.

ITPoE is usually always considered my least favorite (still awesome of course)

I never understood why some don't consider TCoT an epic...

stryker · « **Reply #8 on:** July 08, 2011, 01:21:55 PM »

1. Octavarium
2. In the Presence of Enemies
3. A Change of Seasons
4. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
5. The Count of Tuscany

ReaPsTA · « **Reply #9 on:** July 08, 2011, 01:22:40 PM »

Octavarium
A Change of Seasons
The Count of Tuscany
Six Degrees
In the Presence of Enemies

Jaffa · « **Reply #10 on:** July 08, 2011, 01:23:17 PM »

1. A Change of Seasons
2. The Count of Tuscany
3. Octavarium
4. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
5. In The Presence of Enemies

Still like ITPOE, though.

Freeze · « **Reply #11 on:** July 08, 2011, 01:24:31 PM »

1.Octavarium
2.A Change Of Seasons
3.Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
4.The Count of Tuscany
5.In The Presence Of Enemies

yorost · « **Reply #12 on:** July 08, 2011, 01:26:44 PM »

1. A Change of Seasons
2. Octavarium
3. The Count of Tuscany
4. In The Presence of Enemies
5. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence

Only one I dislike.

BlackInk · « **Reply #13 on:** July 08, 2011, 01:27:33 PM »

Quote from: darkshade on July 08, 2011, 01:19:26 PM

I never understood why some don't consider TCoT an epic...

Something about just causes it not to give me that wpic feel I get from all the others. It's just to stale for me. Of course this is by epic-standards, it is still a great song.

bosk1 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 08, 2011, 01:27:53 PM »

If you don't like how another thread became a controversial debate over what is and isn't an epic, you probably shouldn't say things like:

Quote from: darkshade on July 08, 2011, 01:08:46 PM

These 5 are the only "true" epics, as they are both epic in sound and length, and are truly progressive.

There isn't a clear-cut definition of what is and isn't an epic, so you can't really say that other songs aren't "true" epics. But anyway, you are free to choose which songs you want people to rank in your own thread, which is fine. So...

1. ACOS
2. Octavarium
3. Six Degrees
4. ITPOE
5. TCOT

j · « **Reply #15 on:** July 08, 2011, 01:29:11 PM »

1. A Change of Seasons

2. Octavarium

3. The Count of Tuscany
4. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
5. In the Presence of Enemies

-J

Bonham · « **Reply #16 on:** July 08, 2011, 01:44:07 PM »

1. Octavarium
2. The Count of Tuscany
3. In The Presence Of Enemies
4. A Change Of Seasons
5. Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence

Aren't I the rebel.

krands85 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 08, 2011, 01:46:44 PM »

1. Octavarium
2. In the Presence of Enemies
3. A Change of Seasons
4. The Count of Tuscany
5. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence

First 4 are in my top 8 DT tracks, SDOIT is a good bit further down my rankings.

darkshade · « **Reply #18 on:** July 08, 2011, 01:46:58 PM »

Quote from: bosk1 on July 08, 2011, 01:27:53 PM

If you don't like how another thread became a controversial debate over what is and isn't an epic, you probably should say things like:
Quote from: darkshade on July 08, 2011, 01:08:46 PM
These 5 are the only "true" epics, as they are both epic in sound and length, and are truly progressive.

That's why I said it

lodeus · « **Reply #19 on:** July 08, 2011, 01:48:06 PM »

1. The Count of Tuscany
2. Octavarium

Those two will stay the same.

3. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
4. A Change of Seasons
5. In the Presence of Enemies

TheGreatPretender · « **Reply #20 on:** July 08, 2011, 01:48:26 PM »

1. In The Presence Of Enemies
2. A Change Of Seasons
3. Octavarium
4. Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
5. The Count Of Tuscany

snapple · « **Reply #21 on:** July 08, 2011, 01:55:38 PM »

ACOS
TCOT
ITPOE
SDOIT

8V.

How does this song get so much love anyway? I don't get it. Like, it isn't bad...but it isn't any of the four songs up there. Is it because of all "TEH NUGGZ"?

Adami · « **Reply #22 on:** July 08, 2011, 02:01:58 PM »

1. Acos
2. 8vm
3. TCOT
4. 6DOIT
5. Whatever other songs might be considered epics.
6. Filler
7. ITPOE

KevShmev · « **Reply #23 on:** July 08, 2011, 02:06:42 PM »

Of those five:

A Change of Seasons
Octavarium
The Count of Tuscany
Six Degrees...
In the Presence of Enemies

But don't even try telling me that Scarred, Learning to Live, Metropolis, etc. aren't epics. Epic is not defined by length.

wammabe · « **Reply #24 on:** July 08, 2011, 02:11:02 PM »

Quote from: snapple on July 08, 2011, 01:55:38 PM

8V.

How does this song get so much love anyway? I don't get it. Like, it isn't bad...but it isn't any of the four songs up there. Is it because of all "TEH NUGGZ"?

I don't get why anyone would dislike 8vm more than the other 4. It has a great and beautiful intro, I really love the lyrics, the acoustics are great, the keyboard solo and the instrumental section are not nonsense-making orgasmic sections, and it has a beautiful ending.

chrisbDTM · « **Reply #25 on:** July 08, 2011, 02:12:37 PM »

JP's razor's edge solo is good enough to crack the top 3. then theres 20 mins more of awesome music

darkshade · « **Reply #26 on:** July 08, 2011, 02:14:19 PM »

Quote from: KevShmev on July 08, 2011, 02:06:42 PM

Of those five:

A Change of Seasons
Octavarium
The Count of Tuscany
Six Degrees...
In the Presence of Enemies

But don't even try telling me that Scarred, Learning to Live, Metropolis, etc. aren't epics. Epic is not defined by length.

Of course, I said it in the OP, and the last thread on this topic included those songs; among others (AMBI, ToT, HK/LITS, ANTR, ITNoG, etc...)

I wanted to just focus on the "grand-er" songs; the BIG songs...

robwebster · « **Reply #27 on:** July 08, 2011, 02:19:26 PM »

1. Octavarium.
2. Six Degrees.
3. A Change of Seasons.
4. In the Presence of Enemies.

Don't consider TCoT an epic, but it'd come fourth, ahead of ItPoE, were I to. Truthfully, though, it's closer in length to A Nightmare to Remember than it is to A Change of Seasons, takes me on no more of a journey than a song like Blind Faith (which does take me on a magnificent journey! But not on the same level), and unlike all of the other four it's not split into distinct movements with unique titles.

If there's going to be a divide between "epic" and "regular song," you've got to be a little discriminating, I feel. The Count of Tuscany is their longest song in the regular bracket, and a good one too - I ranked it ahead of ItPoE, it ain't no slouch - but if we're going to make distinctions, they need to be distinctive.

SlitherX · « **Reply #28 on:** July 08, 2011, 02:21:58 PM »

1. A Change of Seasons
2. The Count of Tuscany
3. In The Presence of Enemies
4. Octavarium
5. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence

jonny108 · « **Reply #29 on:** July 08, 2011, 02:25:01 PM »

1. Octavarium
2. A Change of Seasons
3. Six Degrees of Inner of Turbulence
4. The Count of Tuscany
5. In the Presence of Enemies

pmahoney1337 · « **Reply #30 on:** July 08, 2011, 02:27:56 PM »

1. A Change of Seasons
2. Octavarium
3. The Count of Tuscany
4. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
5. In the Presence of Enemies

wasteland · « **Reply #31 on:** July 08, 2011, 02:34:39 PM »

Quote from: Adami on July 08, 2011, 02:01:58 PM

1. Acos
2. 8vm
3. TCOT
4. 6DOIT
5. Whatever other songs might be considered epics.
6. Filler
25. ITPOE

MetropolisxPt1 · « **Reply #32 on:** July 08, 2011, 02:37:25 PM »

Quote from: chrisbDTM on July 08, 2011, 02:12:37 PM

JP's razor's edge solo is good enough to crack the top 3. then theres 20 mins more of awesome music

This and you add in Jordans keyboard solo and jaws drop.

7thHanyou · « **Reply #33 on:** July 08, 2011, 02:43:28 PM »

1. A Change of Seasons
2. Octavarium
3. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
4. The Count of Tuscany
5. In The Presence of Enemies

It's a really tough call between 1 and 2 for me. I find Octavarium more consistent and I like the way it sounds more.

The deciding factor for me is this: the references to other prog bands and the rest of the album in Octavarium are pretty cool. They're one of the good things about the song. But they really keep it from standing on its own merits for me. It doesn't have an identity of its own. So while I'll listen to it more often than ANY of the other epics, I can't really say it's their best. Not to mention the intro, which I love, wears the Pink Floyd influence on its sleeve, perhaps a little too much.

I wouldn't cite any of this as a weakness for Octavarium. Truth be told I wouldn't change a thing about it. But it does keep Octavarium from being better than A Change of Seasons.

I should add that I don't like In the Presence of Enemies at all, so it's an easy fifth for me.

Knguro · « **Reply #34 on:** July 08, 2011, 03:13:03 PM »

1.IN THE NAME OF GOD
2.Metropolis part1 and 2.
2.Octavarium
3.A change of seasons
3.The Count of Tuscany
3.SDoIT
3.ItPoTE

In that order every day. Let's wait for the newones. My list may be subject to change from september.

News: Track-by-track video for Fall Into the Light: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ezfzdMpRc0

Author Topic: Dream Theater's Best Epic (Read 20700 times)