The President needing to be a natural American citizen.

[73109]

What's up with this? If I remember correctly, the reason this was originally instituted was because no one wanted a foreigner getting elected and leading America in the direction of his country's political gain. Doesn't this seem a bit outdated? I mean, think of how many people came here before they could say the word "America" and that in it of itself makes them inelligible for a presidency. I'd reform the law by ousting the natural born citizen clause and just make it that you need to be living here for 25 years or something, I think it's 15 now. Anybody agree?

[yorost]

Not exactly a top priority on lists of things that need to be changed related to electing officials.

[skydivingninja]

Not exactly a top priority on lists of things that need to be changed related to electing officials.

This

[sonatafanica]

You heard 'em, now let's pack up this thread until the other problems are fixed

[MetalMike06]

I disagree. I think, of all people, the President needs to have been raised here and had the "American experience" per say. Maybe if he/she wasn't necessarily born here he/she should have been here from a young age.

[rumborak]

If a country of 300 million can not find somebody to lead them, might as well call it quits. So no, I don't think it needs to be changed, because other than Arnie I've never even heard of anybody being seriously considered who was not natural born.

rumborak

[Scheavo]

I disagree. I think, of all people, the President needs to have been raised here and had the "American experience" per say. Maybe if he/she wasn't necessarily born here he/she should have been here from a young age.

Wouldn't an "American experience" be coming to this country as an immigrant, and working your way up?

I think if the people of this country actually elect someone who wasn't born in this country, it should be up to the people of this country. It made some sense right after the revolution, when our ties to Britain were still so strong that conceivably we could've elected a British president... who may not have had the interest of the country in mind. As rumborak points out, it's not going to be easy to do, and all you have to do is look at the reaction over the false idea that Obama isn't a US citizen, and the complaints raised about his upbringing, to see what an uphill battle any foreigner would really have.

Though, Arnold probably couldve won. He's a movie star, meaning at least half of America is in love with him.

[tjanuranus]

I disagree. I think, of all people, the President needs to have been raised here and had the "American experience" per say. Maybe if he/she wasn't necessarily born here he/she should have been here from a young age.

Wouldn't an "American experience" be coming to this country as an immigrant, and working your way up?

I think if the people of this country actually elect someone who wasn't born in this country, it should be up to the people of this country. It made some sense right after the revolution, when our ties to Britain were still so strong that conceivably we could've elected a British president... who may not have had the interest of the country in mind. As rumborak points out, it's not going to be easy to do, and all you have to do is look at the reaction over the false idea that Obama isn't a US citizen, and the complaints raised about his upbringing, to see what an uphill battle any foreigner would really have.

exactly.

[MetalMike06]

I disagree. I think, of all people, the President needs to have been raised here and had the "American experience" per say. Maybe if he/she wasn't necessarily born here he/she should have been here from a young age.

Wouldn't an "American experience" be coming to this country as an immigrant, and working your way up?

I think if the people of this country actually elect someone who wasn't born in this country, it should be up to the people of this country. It made some sense right after the revolution, when our ties to Britain were still so strong that conceivably we could've elected a British president... who may not have had the interest of the country in mind. As rumborak points out, it's not going to be easy to do, and all you have to do is look at the reaction over the false idea that Obama isn't a US citizen, and the complaints raised about his upbringing, to see what an uphill battle any foreigner would really have.

Though, Arnold probably couldve won. He's a movie star, meaning at least half of America is in love with him.

I understand your point, but I still think being a native to your country gives you an obviously different perspective than being an immigrant. I mean, wouldn't it just be damn weird if Nicolas Sarkozy moved to the US and ran for President? I still think the threat of foreign interests and influence is very much there today.

Though that's not to say that I think an immigrant President would fuck things up much differently than native ones have been doing. So I dunno. I don't really trust that the populace would elect anybody decent anyway, regardless of whether or not they were born here.

[Scheavo]

I disagree. I think, of all people, the President needs to have been raised here and had the "American experience" per say. Maybe if he/she wasn't necessarily born here he/she should have been here from a young age.

Wouldn't an "American experience" be coming to this country as an immigrant, and working your way up?

I think if the people of this country actually elect someone who wasn't born in this country, it should be up to the people of this country. It made some sense right after the revolution, when our ties to Britain were still so strong that conceivably we could've elected a British president... who may not have had the interest of the country in mind. As rumborak points out, it's not going to be easy to do, and all you have to do is look at the reaction over the false idea that Obama isn't a US citizen, and the complaints raised about his upbringing, to see what an uphill battle any foreigner would really have.

Though, Arnold probably couldve won. He's a movie star, meaning at least half of America is in love with him.

I understand your point, but I still think being a native to your country gives you an obviously different perspective than being an immigrant. I mean, wouldn't it just be damn weird if Nicolas Sarkozy moved to the US and ran for President? I still think the threat of foreign interests and influence is very much there today.

Though that's not to say that I think an immigrant President would fuck things up much differently than native ones have been doing. So I dunno. I don't really trust that the populace would elect anybody decent anyway, regardless of whether or not they were born here.

Do you honestly think Sarkozy would stand a chance in America? A frenchmen? He'd automatically lose like 60% of the vote, simply because he's European, and another 20% because he's a pussy frenchman. He wouldn't make it past the primaries.

As for foreign influence, we allow them to spend their money on our elections right now. That is more of a threat to our political system then allowing the people of this country to vote for whom they want.

[Tick]

Maybe Bill Pullman could make a dramatic speech and hand the presidency over to an alien. That would be kind of cool.

[TL]

Come on, without the 'natural born' requirement and the 2nd amendment, the King of England could just waltz across the Atlantic and take over America!

[ClairvoyantCat]

Come on, without the 'natural born' requirement and the 2nd amendment, the King of England could just waltz across the Atlantic and take over America!

 

[lordxizor]

Come on, without the 'natural born' requirement and the 2nd amendment, the King of England could just waltz across the Atlantic and take over America!

I'd vote for him.

[El Barto]

Come on, without the 'natural born' requirement and the 2nd amendment, the King of England could just waltz across the Atlantic and take over America!

I'd vote for him.

Ya know, I think I would too.

[ReaPsTA]

Come on, without the 'natural born' requirement and the 2nd amendment, the King of England could just waltz across the Atlantic and take over America!

I'd vote for him.

Ya know, I think I would too.

I don't think you're being 100% serious, but aren't you basically being the case in point for why the natural-born citizen clause is in the constitution?

[TL]

The natural born clause is in there because they wanted to make sure that the British didn't come over and try to take back the country. These days, there's no reason to still have the 'natural born' clause.

[Chino]

I dont really see the need for it. If the people vote him in, its obviously not that big an issue.who knows,  it might be a good thing.

[juice]

I disagree. I think, of all people, the President needs to have been raised here and had the "American experience" per say. Maybe if he/she wasn't necessarily born here he/she should have been here from a very young age.

I agree with this.

[ReaPsTA]

Question - Is the U.S. the only country with this kind of law?

[GuineaPig]

In Canada, you have to be a citizen, and 18.  That's it.

[rumborak]

Can't answer that, but I can tell you that in Germany the federal president (who is officially higher than the chancellor) must be older than 40. Same weird rule.

rumborak

[yorost]

Age is common, in the US it's 35 and in Europe it's often older.

Question - Is the U.S. the only country with this kind of law?

Not even close as far as I know.  We make a big deal out of countries that don't require it, but natural born citizen is definitely a requirement in other places.  Mexico includes it, and has some extra rules to prevent coups, too.   I think a lot of Latin American countries include it.

[Quadrochosis]

Age is common, in the US it's 35 and in Europe it's often older.

Question - Is the U.S. the only country with this kind of law?

Not even close as far as I know.  We make a big deal out of countries that don't require it, but natural born citizen is definitely a requirement in other places.  Mexico includes it, and has some extra rules to prevent coups, too.   I think a lot of Latin American countries include it.

Makes sense considering America beat their governmental systems into them in the early 1900s.

Walk softly but carry a big stick.

[yorost]

It might be the US heavy hand.  On the other hand, I would think the US would have wanted US born to be able to be 'elected' in these countries.

[Perpetual Change]

Come on, without the 'natural born' requirement and the 2nd amendment, the King of England could just waltz across the Atlantic and take over America!

I'd vote for him.

Ya know, I think I would too.

In all seriousness, I used to laugh about Andy being hung up on the Commonwealth but I thought about it a lot, and I think we'd all have been much better off if the revolutionary war were avoided. 

[TL]

In Canada, you have to be a citizen, and 18.  That's it.

Not to mention, our last two heads of state were born in Hong Kong and Haiti, respectively.

[yorost]

Natural born citizen doesn't necessarily preclude birth outside of country, though.  McCain was born in Panama.  Were he elected he most likely never would have been blocked, which either implies the law becomes dead or natural born citizen includes everyone born as a citizen.

[skydivingninja]

Well McCain's parents were American citizens, so he is by definition a natural born citizen even if he was born outside of the US.

[yorost]

The main point was that US presidents can be born outside the US, so Canadian leaders merely being born outside Canada isn't really that odd relative to US law.  That was long held as the assumption as I knew it, even though it was never tested until McCain ran.

The comment about McCain is a little outdated, it appears.  Congress passed a resolution stating he was eligible.  That measure firmly placed two citizen parents as enough, but I had thought that had been only a token gesture and not binding.  Guess I was wrong.

[skydivingninja]

Even one citizen parent is enough.  And I'm pretty sure that measure you were just talking about was already in place.  I have a friend who was born in England, but she's a US citizen because her parents are citizens.

[yorost]

One parent is enough for citizenship in most, maybe all, cases, definitely.  Natural born citizen is a different issue since it lacks a clear legal definition.  Not all citizens at birth are necessarily natural born citizens, unless that's been corrected in the last couple of years, too.

[GuineaPig]

The main point was that US presidents can be born outside the US, so Canadian leaders merely being born outside Canada isn't really that odd relative to US law.  That was long held as the assumption as I knew it, even though it was never tested until McCain ran.

Yes, but neither Clarkson or Jean were born Canadian citizens.  They both came to the country as refugees.

[yorost]

Yes, that's a major difference, but you only pointed out being born elsewhere, which isn't. ...at least almost certainly isn't.