protein shakes/protein bars etc

[JustJen]

Yeah, my husband drinks the casein shakes before bed so he doesn't get up twice during the night to eat/drink regular protein shakes. They're slower digesting so last longer/fend off hunger longer. Much more effective, he says, than when he ate cottage cheese before bed for the same effect.

He's on a hardcore bodybuilding regimen right now which is definitely not for everyone. Think "Jay Cutler".

[j]

I heard that more diseases are caused by too much protein than by too little though e.g. https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=50900

WTF @ that article, terrible.  I don't know where to start.

Nobody's saying not to eat a balanced diet.  I have never once seen a case where ketosis was caused by high protein intake; that tends to stem from high fat/low carb diets (because ketone bodies are a result of lipid metabolism, which the body resorts to as an energy source when glucose is depleted).  You don't want to cut out carbs or fat at all; your body needs both.  Keep eating fruits, veggies, grains, etc, but adjust your protein intake with your exercise level.  Your balance is going to depend on how often and how intensely you exercise, and your metabolism.

I had a look at protein bars, they're very expensive for just one bar (>1.50).
Protein powder is around £30 per tub.

Bars do tend to be a little expensive, but you can get whey powder VERY cheap online, and sometimes elsewhere.  Check out Scivation's website.

The thing about ordinary food being better - presumably to body build rather than tone or slowly build you'd need to eat a lot more of it.

What ordinary food is good for eating after a workout in the evening, training that would build muscle? Bear in mind that if it's late then you don't want to make or eat a meal. I usually eat nuts, fruit. What else is there?

I don't "cook" (although my wife does, but she's often either not home or not awake at all the times I want to eat ), but I make stuff like eggs or grilled chicken breasts and occasionally I'll do it fairly late at night.  I'll eat snacks like cheese slices or beef jerky or nuts or yogurt, I'll drink milk.  Basically whatever I have around.

I don't normally drink protein shakes other than post-workout, but a lot of people like to have one before bed or at other times that they're hungry between meals.

-J

[AndyDT]

The thing is you always have a certain level of protein in your body, in reserve, and that's largely enough even when you're working out. Overdosing protein can even be bad for your system. But most of the time, it's only useless and a bit hard on your kidney to get rid of it.

If you're an active person, you may not get an ideal amount of protein in your diet.  If a person gets a lot of exercise, and has a strange aversion to dietary supplements which is probably based on misinformation (like some in this thread seem to), then he could get some extra protein by eating an extra chicken breast at dinner instead of eating a protein bar as a snack. *shrug*  Regulating what you put in your body is a good thing, and sometimes essential, when it comes to various habits, illnesses, etc.

You can of course take in an excess of protein, but I've *never* heard of it being a health issue (although by a derivative mechanism you may have higher risk of kidney stone formation).  You'd have to throw back a ridiculous amount of protein to overload your liver's capacity to break it down.  And no, it's not "hard on your kidney" (which doesn't even participate in protein metabolism anyway), you'll probably just have a little bit more nitrogen content in your urine.

-J

not metabolism but it is involved in protein excretion hence the danger from excess protein.

[AndyDT]

The thing is you always have a certain level of protein in your body, in reserve, and that's largely enough even when you're working out. Overdosing protein can even be bad for your system. But most of the time, it's only useless and a bit hard on your kidney to get rid of it.

Protein isn't stored though unlike fat (AFAICR) so if you've had a lot of protein for your evening eal then work out. If it's not absorbed already I don't think the body can get it from anywhere else.

[AndyDT]

I heard that more diseases are caused by too much protein than by too little though e.g. https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=50900

WTF @ that article, terrible.  I don't know where to start.

Nobody's saying not to eat a balanced diet.  I have never once seen a case where ketosis was caused by high protein intake; that tends to stem from high fat/low carb diets (because ketone bodies are a result of lipid metabolism, which the body resorts to as an energy source when glucose is depleted).  You don't want to cut out carbs or fat at all; your body needs both.  Keep eating fruits, veggies, grains, etc, but adjust your protein intake with your exercise level.  Your balance is going to depend on how often and how intensely you exercise, and your metabolism.

I had a look at protein bars, they're very expensive for just one bar (>1.50).
Protein powder is around £30 per tub.

Bars do tend to be a little expensive, but you can get whey powder VERY cheap online, and sometimes elsewhere.  Check out Scivation's website.

They seem to have very focussed supplements or energy supplements rather than protein powder. Also, I've noticed how many supplements have creatine in them. I always thought this was an intermediate for energy production rather than protein synthesis. It seems to be hazardous:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatine

The thing about ordinary food being better - presumably to body build rather than tone or slowly build you'd need to eat a lot more of it.

What ordinary food is good for eating after a workout in the evening, training that would build muscle? Bear in mind that if it's late then you don't want to make or eat a meal. I usually eat nuts, fruit. What else is there?

I don't "cook" (although my wife does, but she's often either not home or not awake at all the times I want to eat ), but I make stuff like eggs or grilled chicken breasts and occasionally I'll do it fairly late at night.  I'll eat snacks like cheese slices or beef jerky or nuts or yogurt, I'll drink milk.  Basically whatever I have around.

I don't normally drink protein shakes other than post-workout, but a lot of people like to have one before bed or at other times that they're hungry between meals.

-J

That sounds recreational.

[j]

The thing is you always have a certain level of protein in your body, in reserve, and that's largely enough even when you're working out. Overdosing protein can even be bad for your system. But most of the time, it's only useless and a bit hard on your kidney to get rid of it.

If you're an active person, you may not get an ideal amount of protein in your diet.  If a person gets a lot of exercise, and has a strange aversion to dietary supplements which is probably based on misinformation (like some in this thread seem to), then he could get some extra protein by eating an extra chicken breast at dinner instead of eating a protein bar as a snack. *shrug*  Regulating what you put in your body is a good thing, and sometimes essential, when it comes to various habits, illnesses, etc.

You can of course take in an excess of protein, but I've *never* heard of it being a health issue (although by a derivative mechanism you may have higher risk of kidney stone formation).  You'd have to throw back a ridiculous amount of protein to overload your liver's capacity to break it down.  And no, it's not "hard on your kidney" (which doesn't even participate in protein metabolism anyway), you'll probably just have a little bit more nitrogen content in your urine.

-J

not metabolism but it is involved in protein excretion hence the danger from excess protein.

Your body doesn't excrete protein.

The thing is you always have a certain level of protein in your body, in reserve, and that's largely enough even when you're working out. Overdosing protein can even be bad for your system. But most of the time, it's only useless and a bit hard on your kidney to get rid of it.

Protein isn't stored though unlike fat (AFAICR) so if you've had a lot of protein for your evening eal then work out. If it's not absorbed already I don't think the body can get it from anywhere else.

Worse, if you are protein deficient, your body will start to utilize its own muscle and tissue proteins for energy.

They seem to have very focussed supplements or energy supplements rather than protein powder. Also, I've noticed how many supplements have creatine in them. I always thought this was an intermediate for energy production rather than protein synthesis. It seems to be hazardous:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatine

https://www.scivation.com/products/whey.htm

They make a lot of supplements, but lab testing has shown that they are one of the few companies whose products do not contain toxic substances (which is fairly common since this stuff generally isn't regulated by the FDA).  They seem to have some integrity and they produce quality stuff in my experience.

Creatine is perfectly safe as long as you're not *grossly* abusing it.  It's produced by the body too and it helps to improve muscle contractile force during workouts, it's just that some people don't use their heads and consume huge amounts of it.  Basically anything is harmful in too large a quantity.  Everything in moderation.

-J

[AndyDT]

The thing is you always have a certain level of protein in your body, in reserve, and that's largely enough even when you're working out. Overdosing protein can even be bad for your system. But most of the time, it's only useless and a bit hard on your kidney to get rid of it.

If you're an active person, you may not get an ideal amount of protein in your diet.  If a person gets a lot of exercise, and has a strange aversion to dietary supplements which is probably based on misinformation (like some in this thread seem to), then he could get some extra protein by eating an extra chicken breast at dinner instead of eating a protein bar as a snack. *shrug*  Regulating what you put in your body is a good thing, and sometimes essential, when it comes to various habits, illnesses, etc.

You can of course take in an excess of protein, but I've *never* heard of it being a health issue (although by a derivative mechanism you may have higher risk of kidney stone formation).  You'd have to throw back a ridiculous amount of protein to overload your liver's capacity to break it down.  And no, it's not "hard on your kidney" (which doesn't even participate in protein metabolism anyway), you'll probably just have a little bit more nitrogen content in your urine.

-J

not metabolism but it is involved in protein excretion hence the danger from excess protein.

Your body doesn't excrete protein.

Not directly (usually). It excretes nitrogenous waste products which come from the protein.

[Ħ]

A person should consume a gram per protein per pound of bodyweight per day. If one is bodybuilding, perhaps double that.

Shakes can be a good way to help with this.

Also if you get hungry, make a shake instead of snacking. But of course still eat your sensible meals. I suggest whole wheat pasta with red meat for breakfast as a start, and have your eggwhites before bed.

Not having enough protein leads to catabolism. Having "too much" doesn't exist.

You are what you eat. Protein *is* muscle. Fat *is* fat.

Slight correction, one should consume 1 gram of protein per lean body mass, so you weight excluding your fat. So say you weigh 200 lbs at 10% body fat, you should consume 160 grams of protein.

I've heard a million different things about how much protein you're supposed to have if you want to gain.  This is the first time I've heard this one.  So confusing...

[ReaperKK]

A person should consume a gram per protein per pound of bodyweight per day. If one is bodybuilding, perhaps double that.

Shakes can be a good way to help with this.

Also if you get hungry, make a shake instead of snacking. But of course still eat your sensible meals. I suggest whole wheat pasta with red meat for breakfast as a start, and have your eggwhites before bed.

Not having enough protein leads to catabolism. Having "too much" doesn't exist.

You are what you eat. Protein *is* muscle. Fat *is* fat.

Slight correction, one should consume 1 gram of protein per lean body mass, so you weight excluding your fat. So say you weigh 200 lbs at 10% body fat, you should consume 160 grams of protein.

I've heard a million different things about how much protein you're supposed to have if you want to gain.  This is the first time I've heard this one.  So confusing...

This is the only one I've ever really heard, hell it even says that right on my why protein bottle.

[AndyDT]

Bought some Weider 90 plus protein you can put in milk or water. Had this big guilt trip before, during and after buying. But now it seems fine.