Poll

How much do you like BC&SL?

It's my new favorite
33 (5.4%)
It's up there with the best of 'em
247 (40.4%)
It's good
198 (32.4%)
It's O.K.
107 (17.5%)
Never Enough
27 (4.4%)

Total Members Voted: 593

Author Topic: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions  (Read 132414 times)

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Offline Zeltar

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #140 on: June 22, 2009, 10:49:10 PM »
GREAT album, not a single weak song on it. It's entertaining and fun all the way through. It probably ranks as my 4th favorite DT album.

Offline Spolt

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #141 on: June 22, 2009, 10:57:30 PM »
Can't wait to be screaming " IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII WANNA STAY ALIVEEEEE !!!! "  :metal

Offline Jamesman42

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #142 on: June 22, 2009, 10:59:09 PM »
It may take a few years to eject this CD from my car.

It's pretty meh.

Offline yeshaberto

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #143 on: June 22, 2009, 11:10:14 PM »
middle of 2nd listen and it is :hefdaddy :metal

Online SeRoX

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #144 on: June 22, 2009, 11:11:19 PM »
All I got from this thread;

BC&SL took much more steps foward than SC. Right?
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #145 on: June 22, 2009, 11:15:56 PM »
All I got from this thread;

BC&SL took much more steps foward than SC. Right?


Not only that- BC&SL has crossed the crooked step.

Offline icon_bleed

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #146 on: June 22, 2009, 11:55:40 PM »
its ok... a new music from that i crave for months to hear... satisfied... ;D ;D
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Offline ResultsMayVary

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #147 on: June 22, 2009, 11:59:02 PM »
This has been in fierce competition for the top spot (of my favorite DT albums) with 6DOIT. And it keeps growing on me, so it may become my most favorite album of all time.
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Offline pogoowner

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #148 on: June 23, 2009, 12:07:17 AM »
I need to listen more, but I guess it's better than Systematic Chaos (pretty much by default).   It's very, very "meh" for me so far, though.  Lots of weak moments.

Offline Otnip

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #149 on: June 23, 2009, 12:14:17 AM »
Just listened to it for my first time, and I really dig it! The band just sounds so alive with ideas and melodies and I just love it. So glad I discovered this wonderful band in time to open my ears and mind to their music.  :smiley: Can't wait for this to grow on me!
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Offline orcus116

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #150 on: June 23, 2009, 12:37:54 AM »

Offline The Curious Orange

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #151 on: June 23, 2009, 02:26:40 AM »
I think it's a huge improvement in many respects. It keeps the metal stuff metal, but also brings the more melodic stuff forward. DT used to be a prog rock band with a metal edge, but they've slowly morphed into a metal band., and the melodic side of their music seems to have been sidelined somewhat. Also, the songwriting seems to have improved. I don't know whether they've gone back to writing songs and bringing them to the studio, or whether they've finally nailed this writing in the studio experiment of theirs. It also manages to do what all the best prog should do - introduce new elements and move things forward. Albums like I&W and Awake were a real revelation, and of late DT have sounded like they're resting on their laurels.

I won't talk about individual tracks, but ANTR gets better every time I listen to it, especially the "beautiful agony" section, Wither is a terrific inclusion that harks back to the days when DT would include a power ballad like LSFAD or Surrounded on an album.

Can't decide whether my favourite track is TBOT, which sounds like Rush meets Andrew Lloyd Webber,  or TCOT with it's Yes-like middle section and that epic slow building finale.

Two slight criticisms - I think I can detect some "clipping" on the cymbals, although it might just be muddy mixing - this is the downside of owning a top-end stereo! The bass is nice and thumpy though.

Secondly, the 3-disc edition came in a very flimsy cardboard sleeve, that was a bit creased by the time I took it out of the envelope. I hate cardboard sleeves - Boo!

Stargazer and the Queen medley were the only 2 covers worth a second listen, IMO. Not listen tot he instrumentals yet.
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Offline chrisnolan

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #152 on: June 23, 2009, 02:30:43 AM »
Well, I eventually got over the awesomeness of the collectors edition yesterday and put the album on and I must have to say, over the experience of SC I'm blown away. I always find it very hard to actually rank albums in any particular order, partly because I'm very picky and partly because everything has different highs and lows in different people eyes (or ears!) Still, it will certainly get more play time by me than SC, ToT, and the majority of 8v.

I don't quite dig "A Nightmare to Remember" yet; Not sure why but for some reason I can never settle down with it, it's probably the slightly weaker final section but it isn't really a complaint rather just highlights how good it is at the start.

"The Best of Times" is absolutely love and think that they totally nailed it. Yes, the lyrics were always going to be slightly awkward but we all know where this is coming from and I personally wish I had even half a tribute like that for my father. The solo at the end is off the scale and JLB is awesome throughout.

"Wither" love it, adore it, want little baby Withers.

"A Rite of Passage" obviously heard it quite a bit up until release so I find it a little more tired and worn in than the rest. It isn't a bad track by any stretch but I would personally rank it as the weakest on the album.

"The Shattered Fortress" is a difficult one. I was a little disappointed at first listen because I was expecting it to build and build and build to some unholy orgasmic finale which never really came. But on the other hand, having listened to it a few times now it has grown on me. The only thing is that some of the reprisals do feel a little forced and out of place but I think it's still a fitting end to the suite.

"The Count of Tuscany" is amazing and I'd be hard pressed to say anything that hasn't already been said. But the final section and the 'I don't want to die" bit are absolutely stunning.

Overall I think it's a great album; it is on endless random repeat on my Hi-Fi at the moment and I don't see that changing for a while. Just got to burn a disc for the car. Compared to other albums it is definitely around SDoIT, so take from that what you will.

Hopefully I can get my DVD drive working soon so I can play with the STEM tracks...grrr stupid mac!


Offline perfey

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #153 on: June 23, 2009, 03:43:54 AM »
Its great reading these positive reviews, they really gets my hopes up for an awesome listening experience. Just 24 more hours  :hat

Offline zxc

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #154 on: June 23, 2009, 04:40:59 AM »
Wow.  I really didn't know what to expect, but I was still anxious in my anticipation.  This was the first DT album I've actually been waiting for as a fan.  I think some of the parts are just incredible  ;D.  It has definitely grown on me.


1. ANtR: At first, I loved the intro but didn't like the vocals.  Listened to the instrumental version many times, and liked the 'restrained' feel of it, as it was obviously not originally an instrumental.  After many listens though, it has definitely grown on me.  Killer intro!  Love thunder (seems DT does too!), love eerie piano playing, love powerful dark chords, love that kind of double bass drumming, love that intro!  And I love the softer section, one of the best parts of the album  ;D.  Love the jazzy keyboard in the background of this part (at 5:39 especially).  Lyrics reminded me of Octavarium.  At first, this bothered me, but now I like it, and I love the 'hopelessly drifting' part, amazing  :hefdaddy.  The solos are yet to do anything for me, though.  I do however love 10:40 (is that a unison or just guitar?) until the MP bit.  MP vocals part flows well, but is unsuitable I think.  As for the roar, I'd prefer some death growls instead!  Love the following instrumental section though.  I think the blast beats are well suited, though at first I was a little stunned (the drumming in this song was a big surprise for me).  Good outro.

This song has parts that I absolutely love, and parts that I don't like so much.  Overall though, the former wins by far ;D


2. ARoP: It has grown on me since it was first released.  I don't like the prechorus, but the rest of the vocals are good I think.  Love the arpeggios or whatever JP is playing in the second verse, makes it for me.  The transition to the instrumental section sounds overused (haven't heard it in a while, but it did remind me of Ytse Jam for some reason, though I love the Jam).  I love the guitar solo now, though I didn't at first.  Especially when the background playing is switched up.  First part of the keyboard solo is quite good, first part of the bebot solo I don't mind; the second part I used to really hate, but now I don't mind it.  The transition to the chorus is still jarring, but it's getting better with time.  Good outro.

There are parts that I like, and others that aren't as good.  Overall, it's alright.  Doesn't touch the riffage in CM though  :metal


3. Wither: This is the song I've heard the least, so far.  At first it didn't really do anything for me.  It still doesn't really, but it's better than some other similar DT songs.  I've never been interested in these songs though.  Great soft section and solo.

Not my type of song, though I don't mind it at all.  Better than everything on the radio.


4. TSF: At first, I found this to be a little jumbled up, and just a compilation of riffs from the previous AA songs.  Now I like this much than before.  God I love the TDS guitar motif at 1:38.  Lyrics here bothered me: "But now I have finally seen the light"  "I've lived with serenity now, not self-righteous hate", sounded a bit mashed together for rhyming effect.  The epic long JR solo didn't really do anything for me (unlike some of the others in the AA set), or at least, nothing yet.  I'm still undecided on the softer section; the deep voice bothers me a bit, like it did in Repentance.  The second half of guitar solo is just brilliant, and the section that follows  ("I am responsible ...") is just awesome.  Great use of the TDS motifs.  I don't like the 'whoooaaawooo' bit, but the TGP outro is perfect as I'm sure everyone would agree.

A song which is growing on me.  I love the final minutes, and the rest of the song is good too.


5. TBoT: At first, I couldn't stand it because of that overused chordal progression (don't know what it's from, but I'm not a fan).  It's growing on me slowly, and I can almost get past that now.  The sad/happy contrasting in the song was very fitting to the lyrical themes, I thought.  But I just love the darker, ominous part at 5:46 ("But then came the call..."), if only for the first few seconds.  Reminded me of Finally Free for a split second.  My favourite part of the song (yes I'm obsessed with dark, minor-key music).  The softer, acoustic/piano section is beautiful, and the lyrics are very fitting.  Luckily, I can appreciate JP's solo despite the chords he's playing over.  Great outro especially.

A beautiful song if you can get past that old chord progression, and even more so if you love that.  I like the song.


6. TCoT: At first, I loved this song.  Now I love it even more, and it's only grown on me over many listens.  I can hardly fault it.  At first, the lyrics bothered me (must be some badass historian!) but now I actually think that they're very good, in contrast to most opinions in this thread.  Perhaps not always the particular prose, but the subject of the song doesn't bother me at all.  JLB's singing does help, however.  I especially love the intro, the keyboards at 2:37, almost all of JLB's vocals over the badass guitars and tasteful keyboard-work.  I love the JLB+MP vocals.  And the chorus!  Best chorus on the album, and in a long time.  Only possible issue is that it's very similar (with the big 'I') to Slipknot - Before I Forget, which was one of my favourite songs years ago, before my musical enlightenment began.  Very cool, chill-out section, similar to the continuum intro in Octavarium but more relaxed.  Love the use of the melody which will be used at the end.  Beautiful acoustic section, however this is the one place I do actually have a small problem with the lyrics: "Is this the way I die?" "What did I do wrong? I just don't understand".  I'm not sure if it's the way it's sung, or the lyrics themselves.  And "I'll tell you once again".  On the whole, it's not a big deal though, the music more than makes up for it if there really is an issue (or it's my imagination).  Love the little guitar solo, and the 'whooa' section.  Epic, fitting, and beautiful.  Wonderful outro.

The best song on the album, and is up there with the best of the best DT songs.  It's up there with ITNOG, Finally Free, and Octavarium, for the JR era of DT.


Wow that took a long time to write.  I listened to the songs while writing about them.  Now it's gone back to ANtR  :metal

I'd give this a 4/5 I think, overall.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2009, 05:00:14 AM by zxc »

Offline Miyazaki74

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #155 on: June 23, 2009, 05:16:22 AM »
BC&SL is the best work they have done since SDOIT in my opinion. The Shattered Fortress and Count of Tuscany are my 2 favorite tracks. TSF has surpassed TGP as my favorite song from the 12 step saga, it so freaking metal :metal. Nightmare is a great epic opener. AROP has that Pull me Under type vibe. Wither is a beautiful ballad. BOT is a beautiful touching upbeat song dedicated to Portnoy's late father, and TCOT is just a monster of an epic, my only complaint is the music to that song deserves better lyrics.

I give the album  4/5 stars.

Offline tri.ad

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #156 on: June 23, 2009, 05:26:45 AM »
Great first post. :tup Welcome.
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Offline Miyazaki74

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #157 on: June 23, 2009, 05:36:40 AM »
Great first post. :tup Welcome.

Thanks  ;D

Offline cookienut

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #158 on: June 23, 2009, 06:00:22 AM »
Ah it's nice to finally discuss this album.

The album for me is at this stage my 3rd or 4th favorite by DT. That says a lot. SFAM and Awake still remain the greatest albums ever made imo.

The opening is so damm epic. I can't believe how awesome it is! I listened to it in the car with a mate and we almost had a car crash!
But it all ended ok...EVERYONE SURVIVED.

The whole album is very tightly woven with bacon and gravy mixed in with some fresh water Long Island Salmon.  :biggrin:

The Count of tuscany sits up there with A Change of Seasons and Octavarium. Actually it's probably their most focused epic song made.

All in all a 9/10.

Great work by DT.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #159 on: June 23, 2009, 06:03:45 AM »
Ah it's nice to finally discuss this album.

The album for me is at this stage my 3rd or 4th favorite by DT. That says a lot. SFAM and Awake still remain the greatest albums ever made imo.

The opening is so damm epic. I can't believe how awesome it is! I listened to it in the car with a mate and we almost had a car crash!
But it all ended ok...EVERYONE SURVIVED. ROROROROROOOOOOROROROROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWAHHHHH

The whole album is very tightly woven with bacon and gravy mixed in with some fresh water Long Island Salmon.  :biggrin:

The Count of tuscany sits up there with A Change of Seasons and Octavarium. Actually it's probably their most focused epic song made.

All in all a 9/10.

Great work by DT.

fixed for completeness
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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #160 on: June 23, 2009, 06:16:57 AM »
Going to the store today to get it. Will post review here later.
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Offline Miyazaki74

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #161 on: June 23, 2009, 06:22:40 AM »
I also want to add that Jordan Rudess is absolutely fantastic on this album. I think It's his best work on a DT record yet, or at least just as good as SDOIT.

Offline HarlequinForest

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #162 on: June 23, 2009, 06:32:45 AM »
I'm really surprised at the reactions to the album.  Been listening to it for over a week, and I thought most would share my sentiments when we finally got to discuss it.  I don't feel like it comes anywhere close to Awake, I&W, SDoIT, or Scenes, but I'm glad you people like it.

Offline Miyazaki74

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #163 on: June 23, 2009, 06:51:46 AM »
I'm really surprised at the reactions to the album.  Been listening to it for over a week, and I thought most would share my sentiments when we finally got to discuss it.  I don't feel like it comes anywhere close to Awake, I&W, SDoIT, or Scenes, but I'm glad you people like it.

Just out of curiosity what is it about this album that makes you feel that it's not even close to Awake, I&W or SDOIT?

Offline Zorander

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #164 on: June 23, 2009, 07:24:46 AM »
Wow, there's a LOT of good stuff on this CD =) I really like it, DT have been drifting a bit from what I came to love them for, but this time I really appreciate almost every second of the record and that makes me really really happy :D

Oh, I have a question. I bought the 3-cd set, and it says on the cover that it contains extended artwork etc.. But the only thing inside was the 3 CDs .. Shouldn't there be like a booklet or something, with lyrics and everything? I mean, there's ALWAYS a booklet!!? And now, how can I go back to the store and complain about a missing booklet? Can't be proven... I NEED THE BOOKLET!  :'(   
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Offline The Curious Orange

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #165 on: June 23, 2009, 07:34:39 AM »
There should be a booklet. It sits in that slit on the inner right-hand side of the gatefold.
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Offline HarlequinForest

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #166 on: June 23, 2009, 07:38:33 AM »
I'm really surprised at the reactions to the album.  Been listening to it for over a week, and I thought most would share my sentiments when we finally got to discuss it.  I don't feel like it comes anywhere close to Awake, I&W, SDoIT, or Scenes, but I'm glad you people like it.

Just out of curiosity what is it about this album that makes you feel that it's not even close to Awake, I&W or SDOIT?
Just general disjointedness; lyrics, as well as the subject matter of said lyrics; a great deal of, what I consider to be, cheesy melodies; way too much singing by Portnoy; and a general lack of brilliant melodies that I feel the aforementioned albums have.

Also, all the aforementioned albums have their own distinct sound, while Black Clouds, as it has been touted around here frequently, is really just Dream Theater.  It gives one a great representation of Dream Theater's style on all fronts, but that is not what I look for in a Dream Theater album.  I look for distinction.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2009, 07:43:50 AM by HarlequinForest »

Offline SnakeEyes

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #167 on: June 23, 2009, 07:48:38 AM »
Yeah.  ^
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Offline TimmyHiggy

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #168 on: June 23, 2009, 08:07:30 AM »
great album
loved all of it apart from AROP, which i consider sub-par. On first listen, i thought TBOT was a bit weak but its getting better with every listen faster than all the other songs.
I love the shattered fortress, great closer to the AA saga and really enjoy listening to it both to hear the adaptations of the old parts and I really like it as a song as a whole, although im not a fan of the transition into TROAE part.
Im looking forward to being able to sing along to wither, such a power ballad!
Definite top 4 DT album. I'll have to give it a month or so before im sure of where in the top 4 though...

I also really liked how they worked with the buildup to the album, with the 1 at a time release of the cover songs, which definitely built my excitement up.
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Offline Volk9

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #169 on: June 23, 2009, 08:13:33 AM »
After more in depth listens, I'll say that this is a good album, but not one of the best imo.

A Nightmare to Remember: I love this song and the only thing I dont like is Portnoy vocals (this goes for the entire album) Absolutely love the mellow section; when I first heard it, I melted.

A Rite of Passage: When I first heard it, I didnt like it. After a few more listens, It grew on me but now, I dont like it again, lol. It just doesnt seem...idk, distinctive or special; its just a "radio" DT song, imo. Second least favorite song

Wither: At first I didnt really like this song too much, but after a few more listens, I will admit its pretty good, but still not amazing.

Shattered Fortress: I really expected the blending of the AA saga bits to be a little better and coherent, and although some moments are good on here, this is probably my least favorite song.

The Best of Times: I need to give it a few more listens honestly, but as of now, I dont like it that much.

The Count of Tuscany: At first listen, could care less about it, but now, I do think it is a pretty good song. Dont mind the lyrics as much as most people, and its a good all around epic.

The album is definately much more coherent than SC, but its brought down to me because it (at least yet) doesnt really have its own identity and distinctiveness, as previously mentioned by someone. It just sounds like...Dream Theater doing Dream Theater, and while that isnt bad, its not what I look for.

I give the album 3.5/5 for now
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Offline Tsev Eyd Ecaps

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #170 on: June 23, 2009, 08:16:05 AM »
The anticipation was well worth it.  This album is brilliant and has so many high points.  It just never lets up for a second.  The Shattered Fortress is a brilliant end to the suite, and The Count of Tuscany may be my new favorite song bar none.


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Offline abydos

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #171 on: June 23, 2009, 08:26:44 AM »
ANTR, TSF and Wither are the only listenable songs for me and even they have many flaws. Lyrics are awful throughout, imo. The album is also filled with missing or just horrible transitions, which are most prominent on TSF. It really sounds like a bunch of riffs from other songs put together.
So, yeah. Bad lyrics. Bad/missing transitions leading to awkward and out of place melodies/sections. Completely unnecessary parts that don't seem to do anything to develop the song. Annoying (for me) MP lead vocals and a lot of the backing ones too. Basically that's what grinds my gears. Some really great moments but not enough concentration on them. This album could have been on par with ToT or even SDOIT had they demoed it and refined the music and lyrics some more.
3 or 3.5/10 at most from me which makes it better than Octavarium and SC.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2009, 08:48:54 AM by abydos »

Offline Super Dude

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #172 on: June 23, 2009, 08:42:46 AM »
What's interesting about The Best of Times and The Count of Tuscany is there's a lot of "Lifesonesque" guitar in there.

Right now I'd give this album a 10/10, but I'm willing to wait for the album to age on me.
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As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.
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Offline matamor1

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #173 on: June 23, 2009, 08:53:57 AM »
I can't stop listening to Wither, it's so powerful and emotional despite the subject matter which makes the lyrical composition the much ore compelling and exceptional! Please get this some radio time! (even if that means reaching the 'wrong' demographic, the financial support would be much deserved imho)

This album is truly the best way to introduce Dream Theater to a friend, very balanced and encompassing many of Dream Theater's signature elements.
AROP- Greatest single, this destroys Constant Motion (which I personally liked btw). Very catchy, compelling, and a great Live potential.
ANTR - Again, the soft melody in the middle is pure ecstasy.
Wither- Like i said before, pure ballad mastery, my favorite song for some reason. My girlfriend loves it too so that's a plus!
TCOT- Amazing song, I like how Dream Theater manages to reinvent itself with every new album, they all have a very particular sound that is reminiscent of Dream Theater as a band but that stands originally on its own. All I need in my Zune is Dream Theater. (and maybe some Porcupine Tree, Beardfish...)
TBOT- yeah, very powerful emotional connection specially if you now the background of this song, beautiful.

Offline Super Dude

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Re: Black Clouds & Silver Linings: Reactions
« Reply #174 on: June 23, 2009, 09:07:20 AM »
Amazing album from beginning to end.  I still can't believe it's Dream Theater.
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.
:superdude: