The Journey Thread

[devieira73]

And yes, also I don't like the re-recording of Faith in the Heartland and much less of The Place in Your Heart (japanese bonus) from Revelations.

[bosk1]

And you know what other Augeri era song I absolutely love? Remember Me, from the Armageddon soundtrack. Not even gonna apologize.

I don't remember it (no pun intended).  I'll have to go back and listen.  But Journey kinda made their name through sappy songs, so assuming that is what Remember Me is, no need to apologize.

Revelation can take a flying leap, especially the "remakes" disc.

Agreed.  It made NO sense to do that, and it was a huge dick move on Schon's part.

[bosk1]

And yes, also I don

[devieira73]

I pressed enter before I finished writing. Now I finished, see above 
 

[Samsara]

Generations and Revelations.

I liked Generations a lot.  Revelations, on the other hand, I did not.  The stuff on disk 1 wasn't memorable at all.  And the re-records left a bad taste in my mouth, especially the re-record of Faith in the Heartland on disk 1, which there was NO need to do at all.  Eclipse, on the other hand, is perhaps my favorite post-Frontiers album.  There were definitely a few misses on that one, but plenty of really solid tunes as well.

Agree with bosky. Generations was solid. Revelations...it pissed me off. More disrespect of Augeri with the re-records. Pass. Eclipse was excellent. I am very fond of Trial by Fire, so it doesn't rank higher for me, but I will say Eclipse is the best Journey record not to feature Steve Perry on vocals. And of course, Jonathan Cain has said that record is a misstep because it was a bit too heavy (no link, but he did say something like that, I am paraphrasing). 

[King Postwhore]

And you know what other Augeri era song I absolutely love? Remember Me, from the Armageddon soundtrack. Not even gonna apologize.

That song is killer. 

[bosk1]

Eclipse was excellent. I am very fond of Trial by Fire, so it doesn't rank higher for me, but I will say Eclipse is the best Journey record not to feature Steve Perry on vocals.

I like the way you put that because it encompasses the early stuff as well.  But I'd probably go a step further.  For my tastes, I would say it is probably the best Journey record not named Escape or Frontiers (although Infinity might be up there as well, just on the strength of Lights and Wheel In The Sky alone). 

[Kwyjibo]

Arival was good, We Will Meet Again is a killer song, but the record had too many ballads/soft songs. I didn't like Generations that much but thought that Revelations was much better monus the re-recorded stuff. Eclipse is just great, easily the best post-Perry record for me and up there with their great ones.

[Architeuthis]

They've put out alot of good stuff post Perry era. Arrival is great throughout, one of my favorite Journey ballads is Lifetime Of Dreams. Steve Augeri knocked it out of the park, and Schons guitar playing is melodic as ever.
 As many mentioned above, Eclipse is fantastic!  I wish they would play more of that stuff live.
Now going way back, I loved the Greg Rollie and Steve Perry era where they sang back and forth,,  such as the song "Anytime" etc.

[BlobVanDam]

Now going way back, I loved the Greg Rollie and Steve Perry era where they want back and forth,,  such as the song "Anytime" etc.

Just The Same Way is my favourite of that kind. Great tune.

[Architeuthis]

Now going way back, I loved the Greg Rollie and Steve Perry era where they want back and forth,,  such as the song "Anytime" etc.

Just The Same Way is my favourite of that kind. Great tune.

Agreed! Awesome stuff.

[Stadler]

Generations and Revelations.

I liked Generations a lot.  Revelations, on the other hand, I did not.  The stuff on disk 1 wasn't memorable at all.  And the re-records left a bad taste in my mouth, especially the re-record of Faith in the Heartland on disk 1, which there was NO need to do at all.  Eclipse, on the other hand, is perhaps my favorite post-Frontiers album.  There were definitely a few misses on that one, but plenty of really solid tunes as well.

Agree with bosky. Generations was solid. Revelations...it pissed me off. More disrespect of Augeri with the re-records. Pass. Eclipse was excellent. I am very fond of Trial by Fire, so it doesn't rank higher for me, but I will say Eclipse is the best Journey record not to feature Steve Perry on vocals. And of course, Jonathan Cain has said that record is a misstep because it was a bit too heavy (no link, but he did say something like that, I am paraphrasing). 

That last sentence... hasn't that always sort of been the dynamic in Journey?  Schon wanting heavier, Cain wanting more melodic, keyboard driven stuff, and magic being made in the middle?   

[T-ski]

Put me in the camp that Eclipse is a very good album.  In fact, it may be my favorite post-Perry Journey album.

[bl5150]

It seems there is trouble in Journey land again.

Neal and Cain seem to have had a major falling out over his (Cain's) obsession with religion since his marriage to an evangelical pastor....now coming to a head.  He has changed his Twitter account to Neal Schon's JRNY

An example of a posting from Neal on social media

"I've stated how I felt about mixing Religion and Politics and how our music is not of 1 religion - democratic or republican. This is and has been an issue with myself Mr Cain and his now wife since he married. I've had to fight this whole time to protect the Brand I built with Steve Perry way before Gregg and I picked Cain to replace himself when he wanted to retire from the road back then. Well frankly I'm tired of having to defend all by my self. Ross is no help. I continue to grow and be completely creative and want to take the band Neal Schon's JRNY on an exciting new trip musically. Yes we will always have all hits to play But there must be musical growth also. I also need to surround myself with people that care as I do. I'll never stop.”

[Mister Gold]

I can't say I'm fully surprised. There's been talk that tensions were there between Neal and Cain ever since they did the Eclipse album in 2011.

[bl5150]

I can't say I'm fully surprised. There's been talk that tensions were there between Neal and Cain ever since they did the Eclipse album in 2011.

Yeah........Schon has been pretty clear that he wanted to take things in a more hard rocking direction etc.....as against Cain's more melodic tendencies. But I wasn't aware of what seems a total breakdown in the relationship over the influence of Cain's missus.

[Mister Gold]

I can't say I'm fully surprised. There's been talk that tensions were there between Neal and Cain ever since they did the Eclipse album in 2011.

Yeah........Schon has been pretty clear that he wanted to take things in a more hard rocking direction etc.....as against Cain's more melodic tendencies. But I wasn't aware of what seems a total breakdown in the relationship over the influence of Cain's missus.

Yeah, that's also news to me.

I guess my question right now is who will make the lineup for the band moving forward? I know there was talk recently about Gregg rejoining Journey and Neal seemed into the idea, so I could see that happening. Neal specifically singling Ross out in his rant though makes me think he might not continue being in the band.

[devieira73]

Eclispe is really an iteresting and a strong record and it seemed the band was still evolving... but, all of a sudden, Journey seemed to turn to just a nostalgia act, what personally I think it's a tremendous waste of talent. Let's see this NS band, although I think he needs a partner like Cain with a more melodic sense to blend with his more guitar driven style.

[Samsara]

That last sentence... hasn't that always sort of been the dynamic in Journey?  Schon wanting heavier, Cain wanting more melodic, keyboard driven stuff, and magic being made in the middle?   

Pretty much, yeah. I think Schon got his way on Eclipse, which is probably why they haven't made another record.

It seems there is trouble in Journey land again.

Neal and Cain seem to have had a major falling out over his (Cain's) obsession with religion since his marriage to an evangelical pastor....now coming to a head.  He has changed his Twitter account to Neal Schon's JRNY

An example of a posting from Neal on social media

"I've stated how I felt about mixing Religion and Politics and how our music is not of 1 religion - democratic or republican. This is and has been an issue with myself Mr Cain and his now wife since he married. I've had to fight this whole time to protect the Brand I built with Steve Perry way before Gregg and I picked Cain to replace himself when he wanted to retire from the road back then. Well frankly I'm tired of having to defend all by my self. Ross is no help. I continue to grow and be completely creative and want to take the band Neal Schon's JRNY on an exciting new trip musically. Yes we will always have all hits to play But there must be musical growth also. I also need to surround myself with people that care as I do. I'll never stop.”

That's unfortunate. I hope the two of them can figure it out. As much as I prefer the heavier side of Journey, Jonathan Cain is an essential element of their sound. If Schon moves on without him, he really needs to make sure he changes the name. I am not entirely sure, but I am fairly confident that "Journey" is owned between Perry, Schon and Cain. So if I am correct in that assumption, Schon can probably book gigs under "Neal Schon's Journey" and not pay Cain. But if he books AS Journey, he has to pay Cain. And yes, if memory serves, Perry never separated from Journey's ownership, which is why he oversaw some of their live projects a few years back. He gets paid every time Journey does something. Cain's not dumb. He wouldn't give that up.

A shame. I really hope they can get it together, or simply go their separate ways...

[Mister Gold]

Eclispe is really an iteresting and a strong record and it seemed the band was still evolving... but, all of a sudden, Journey seemed to turn to just a nostalgia act, what personally I think it's a tremendous waste of talent. Let's see this NS band, although I think he needs a partner like Cain with a more melodic sense to blend with his more guitar driven style.

From the sound of things, Cain has played a big role in this. Dude was not a fan of Eclipse at all and used its poor sales as an excuse to shut down recording any new material and sticking to only playing the band's classic hits at live shows.

If I had to guess, Neal's gonna probably team up with Gregg Rollie, Steve Smith and (hopefully) Arnel Pineda under the moniker of "Neal Schon's JNRY" to avoid any legal bouts with Cain.

I was checking an old stomping grounds of mine at MelodicRock forums (probably the best forum to go to for info on Journey) and apparently Neal's had the idea of touring under "JNRY" as a possible back exit since 2007, though it seems he hasn't felt the need to do anything with it until now?

That last sentence... hasn't that always sort of been the dynamic in Journey?  Schon wanting heavier, Cain wanting more melodic, keyboard driven stuff, and magic being made in the middle?   

Pretty much, yeah. I think Schon got his way on Eclipse, which is probably why they haven't made another record.

It seems there is trouble in Journey land again.

Neal and Cain seem to have had a major falling out over his (Cain's) obsession with religion since his marriage to an evangelical pastor....now coming to a head.  He has changed his Twitter account to Neal Schon's JRNY

An example of a posting from Neal on social media

"I've stated how I felt about mixing Religion and Politics and how our music is not of 1 religion - democratic or republican. This is and has been an issue with myself Mr Cain and his now wife since he married. I've had to fight this whole time to protect the Brand I built with Steve Perry way before Gregg and I picked Cain to replace himself when he wanted to retire from the road back then. Well frankly I'm tired of having to defend all by my self. Ross is no help. I continue to grow and be completely creative and want to take the band Neal Schon's JRNY on an exciting new trip musically. Yes we will always have all hits to play But there must be musical growth also. I also need to surround myself with people that care as I do. I'll never stop.”

That's unfortunate. I hope the two of them can figure it out. As much as I prefer the heavier side of Journey, Jonathan Cain is an essential element of their sound. If Schon moves on without him, he really needs to make sure he changes the name. I am not entirely sure, but I am fairly confident that "Journey" is owned between Perry, Schon and Cain. So if I am correct in that assumption, Schon can probably book gigs under "Neal Schon's Journey" and not pay Cain. But if he books AS Journey, he has to pay Cain. And yes, if memory serves, Perry never separated from Journey's ownership, which is why he oversaw some of their live projects a few years back. He gets paid every time Journey does something. Cain's not dumb. He wouldn't give that up.

A shame. I really hope they can get it together, or simply go their separate ways...

That's exactly what I think Neal's up to with the whole "Neal Schon's JNRY" moniker.

[Samsara]

It always comes down to the bottom line.

Interesting if "JRNY" is how he is going to book it. Smart. Because legally, everything probably says "Journey," so if all this assuming is right, using the shortened word is exactly how you avoid any legal entanglements (Cain my try, but Schon was very smart if he is only using JRNY after his name).

[Mister Gold]

It always comes down to the bottom line.

Interesting if "JRNY" is how he is going to book it. Smart. Because legally, everything probably says "Journey," so if all this assuming is right, using the shortened word is exactly how you avoid any legal entanglements (Cain my try, but Schon was very smart if he is only using JRNY after his name).

Yup. And "JNRY" also stylistically fits with the band's history of using odd spelling for album titles (see "E5C4P3"/"Escape" and "ECL1P53"/"Eclipse" as examples).

All in all, I think this is probably a case of two very big Egos finally coming toe-to-toe with one another in Neal and Cain. I'm not really sure that I'm gonna ever really sympathize with either party on this. However I'll probably keep following Neal since I know he wants to make more music and play it live, while Cain just wants to cruise on autopilot with the classic hits.

For me, I'm just really wanting to know how Arnel and Steve Smith fit into things. I'm betting we're about to see Neal team up with Gregg again since it seems like he's been wanting to do that for ages now, and it sounds like Ross might be out given Neal's reference to Ross "not helping" in his big rant on Cain.

[Samsara]

It always comes down to the bottom line.

Interesting if "JRNY" is how he is going to book it. Smart. Because legally, everything probably says "Journey," so if all this assuming is right, using the shortened word is exactly how you avoid any legal entanglements (Cain my try, but Schon was very smart if he is only using JRNY after his name).

Yup. And "JNRY" also stylistically fits with the band's history of using odd spelling for album titles (see "E5C4P3"/"Escape" and "ECL1P53"/"Eclipse" as examples).

All in all, I think this is probably a case of two very big Egos finally coming toe-to-toe with one another in Neal and Cain. I'm not really sure that I'm gonna ever really sympathize with either party on this. However I'll probably keep following Neal since I know he wants to make more music and play it live, while Cain just wants to cruise on autopilot with the classic hits.

For me, I'm just really wanting to know how Arnel and Steve Smith fit into things. I'm betting we're about to see Neal team up with Gregg again since it seems like he's been wanting to do that for ages now, and it sounds like Ross might be out given Neal's reference to Ross "not helping" in his big rant on Cain.

I'm very interested to see how it will play out. I favor Neal's heavier approach, and would check out "Neal Schon's JRNY" depending on the setlist, and the band. It would be cool if Gregg Rolie was involved. But I wonder about Smith, Pineda and Valory. Smith and Valory, in particular, may not be as interested if the money isn't the same. And it wouldn;t be, because "JOURNEY" will likely draw a lot more than "NEAL SCHON'S JRNY."

Although I don't believe in supporting anyone who hits a woman, I wonder now that he has gotten clean again, and tried to make amends, if Deen Castronovo will team up with Neal Schon once again. I wouldn't find that surprising, and would give Neal a dynamite voice. I've long said that the best Journey singer outside of Steve Perry is Deen Castronovo. The man simply doesn't want to front a band. But his voice is even more like Perry than Pineda's is.

I guess we'll find out. I wouldn't really follow Cain much, if he decided to do something. To me, he's essential for classic Journey, but his softer tastes probably wouldn't work for me in a solo context.

[Mister Gold]

It always comes down to the bottom line.

Interesting if "JRNY" is how he is going to book it. Smart. Because legally, everything probably says "Journey," so if all this assuming is right, using the shortened word is exactly how you avoid any legal entanglements (Cain my try, but Schon was very smart if he is only using JRNY after his name).

Yup. And "JNRY" also stylistically fits with the band's history of using odd spelling for album titles (see "E5C4P3"/"Escape" and "ECL1P53"/"Eclipse" as examples).

All in all, I think this is probably a case of two very big Egos finally coming toe-to-toe with one another in Neal and Cain. I'm not really sure that I'm gonna ever really sympathize with either party on this. However I'll probably keep following Neal since I know he wants to make more music and play it live, while Cain just wants to cruise on autopilot with the classic hits.

For me, I'm just really wanting to know how Arnel and Steve Smith fit into things. I'm betting we're about to see Neal team up with Gregg again since it seems like he's been wanting to do that for ages now, and it sounds like Ross might be out given Neal's reference to Ross "not helping" in his big rant on Cain.

I'm very interested to see how it will play out. I favor Neal's heavier approach, and would check out "Neal Schon's JRNY" depending on the setlist, and the band. It would be cool if Gregg Rolie was involved. But I wonder about Smith, Pineda and Valory. Smith and Valory, in particular, may not be as interested if the money isn't the same. And it wouldn;t be, because "JOURNEY" will likely draw a lot more than "NEAL SCHON'S JRNY."

Although I don't believe in supporting anyone who hits a woman, I wonder now that he has gotten clean again, and tried to make amends, if Deen Castronovo will team up with Neal Schon once again. I wouldn't find that surprising, and would give Neal a dynamite voice. I've long said that the best Journey singer outside of Steve Perry is Deen Castronovo. The man simply doesn't want to front a band. But his voice is even more like Perry than Pineda's is.

I guess we'll find out. I wouldn't really follow Cain much, if he decided to do something. To me, he's essential for classic Journey, but his softer tastes probably wouldn't work for me in a solo context.

I think Smith is likely to stick with Neal, seeing as he's collaborated with Neal on some of his solo albums in recent years and that it was Neal who was able to get him back into the band at all. Hell, I only recently realized that Smith had rejoined Journey at all (I'd stopped paying attention after the whole controversy with Deen happened), so if there's a rift in the band, I think Smith will either continue working with Neal or just retire from Journey altogether.

Ross is probably out though, given him being mentioned specifically in Neal's big rant.

As for Arnel or Deen, I think Neal would probably stick with the former for now. He might not sound like Perry as much as Deen did, but I think his voice complimented the more aggressive music Neal was coming up with on Eclipse.

[jammindude]

The return of Jeff Scott Soto?

[Samsara]

The return of Jeff Scott Soto?

Considering he was dropped on his ass by Schon and Cain, I doubt it. One of the most callous moves I have seen. Thankfully, JSS landed on his feet. I almost swore off Journey for good after that. I saw one of the shows with JSS fronting them. He was GREAT. He and Deen took turns singing, and it was really, really good. JSS then ended all of his involvement in other things, and then found out after he did it that the band dumped him.

[bosk1]

Yeah, I don't see Soto coming back.  He was not at all happy about the way things went down.

[Mister Gold]

I'd be (happily) stunned if Soto came back. But yeah, I don't see it happening at all. Neal and Cain did him dirty.

[bosk1]

I can't say I would be "happy" if he returned.  He is a fantastic singer.  But, at least at the show I saw him perform with them, he struggled mightily with the material and could not do it justice.  He has a nice range and can hit some high notes when called on to do so.  But he cannot sing an entire set of Journey material comfortably.  The stuff is just outside of his range.  And the set I saw him on was an opening set as well.  I cannot imagine him singing a full-length headlining set of Journey material.  That isn't meant to be a knock on him.  I just do not feel that he is the right singer for that job.

[Samsara]

I can't say I would be "happy" if he returned.  He is a fantastic singer.  But, at least at the show I saw him perform with them, he struggled mightily with the material and could not do it justice.  He has a nice range and can hit some high notes when called on to do so.  But he cannot sing an entire set of Journey material comfortably.  The stuff is just outside of his range.  And the set I saw him on was an opening set as well.  I cannot imagine him singing a full-length headlining set of Journey material.  That isn't meant to be a knock on him.  I just do not feel that he is the right singer for that job.

And here is where personal taste can deviate. I saw, I believe the same show bosk1 did, and if memory serves, I feel completely opposite. I thought he was outstanding. Some of the higher songs Deen simply sang, leaving JSS to sing harmony. In fact, I recorded the show on minidisc. I'd have to find it and get it transferred, but I know I recorded it.

[cfmoran13]

Although I don't believe in supporting anyone who hits a woman, I wonder now that he has gotten clean again, and tried to make amends, if Deen Castronovo will team up with Neal Schon once again. I wouldn't find that surprising, and would give Neal a dynamite voice. I've long said that the best Journey singer outside of Steve Perry is Deen Castronovo. The man simply doesn't want to front a band. But his voice is even more like Perry than Pineda's is.

Neal has already talked about possibly using Deen for his "heavy blues" project he's doing with John Waite.  Why not bring him in for his JRNY project? 

[bl5150]

JSS - like most singers as they age - has lost the top of his range but could've been a good fit for a more hard rocking Journey.  He could've added a lot of energy (both on stage and creatively) and turned them away from the nostalgia act thing.   I suppose Soul Sirkus is some sort of example but I never managed to get into that one.   I would've liked to see JSS in Van Halen instead of Cherone at the time - his version of So This Is Love is killer and he can manage a DLR falsetto much easier than pushing out of his natural range to do Perry.

As some have said the chances of JSS going near Neal Schon again are basically nil.

Re Castronovo and not wanting to front shows - I agree it's not his preference but he did front some shows recently with Revolution Saints and didn't seem too out of his comfort zone.  Not a natural front man by any means but did a decent job.

[KevShmev]

Their drama aside, can I just say that Send Her My Love has one gorgeous outro.

[bosk1]

Yes, you can.  And you can say that about quite a few of their other songs as well.    Personally, I'm a sucker for the outro to Faithfully.

[jammindude]

Winds of March

/drama discussion