Author Topic: Band Fan Messageboards...  (Read 1857 times)

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Offline Tick

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Band Fan Messageboards...
« on: May 16, 2011, 09:50:52 PM »
Do you think band fan boards are accurate read of that bands fan base?
Take our board here. Do you think its a fairly accurate pulse of the Dream Theater fan ? I mean their are thousands of rabid Dream Theater fans globally who don't bother with messageboards. When you see the DVD's, it seems the fans waiting in line for those shows are over the top excited, or appear to be for the cameras.
Do you think the opinions of those here coincide with the overall view of most DT fans?

I was talking to a good friend of mine earlier today who is a huge life long Dream Theater fan who doesn't post on any DT board, yet he has so much info from various sources about the band. He has so many different view points about the band and there future, the new drummer, etc then I generally read here.
I guess my point is we as a whole are a fairly small sampling of the fan base and as with many boards, lots of the long time members forge friendships and stay part of the scene long after their interest in the band wanes.

You also see people on boards whose main objective is to knit pick and over criticize the band about anything and everything. It was one on the main reasons my friend doesn't enjoy fan boards much. He reads more negative then positive, or at least it seems that way.
Bottom line. Are messageboard fans the die hard fans or just the fans who really enjoy social networking thus choosing their favorite band as spots to meet people and connect? or is it both?
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Offline Ravenheart

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Re: Band Fan Messageboards...
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2011, 09:57:21 PM »
I'd say both, really. I mean, if you were to hypothetically interview every single member of this board, you'd find a really diverse mix of Dream Theater fans and opinions of the band.

There are the nitpickers, the fanboys, the casual fans, and all the little details in-between. I don't think it's too far-fetched to say it's a decent representation of Dream Theater fans globally.

What I don't like is how people who are critical of some aspects of Dream Theater are categorized as overly negative or nitpickers. I mean, there's a segment of fans like that, sure, but that doesn't apply to all of them.

Offline Nic35

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Re: Band Fan Messageboards...
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2011, 10:00:30 PM »
I'd say yes. We have the older die hard fans, the newer fans and the fans that don't care about the band anymore.
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Offline robwebster

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Re: Band Fan Messageboards...
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2011, 04:38:27 AM »
Nope. Never a fair representation.

A band's fan messageboard is a self-selected sample of the mingiest, mongiest saddos who have decided that they like X band so much they're going to talk about it all day. And I include myself in that, by the way. While this may include some of the most dedicated fans, it will not include the majority of the fans. How many people do you bump into at DT gigs that even know the message board exists, let alone use it? There are always a few, but rarely a lot.

Messageboards are insular - teeny little fandom appendices. They've got a deeper sense of entitlement than other fans, they've spent a lot of time articulating their grumbles (to the extent that they're magnified), and they're... I want to use the word "incestuous," but it's got too negative a connotation.

The thing is, most fans won't even think about how boring Scarred is, or how Octavarium has a lot of filler, or how Learning to Live isn't as good as everyone says. They'll briefly have a negative thought, and then rock out to something like The Dark Eternal Night. On a messageboard, though, that thought becomes positively claustrophobic. Recycled and tossed and turned until it's exaggerated beyond all belief.

Not to mention, that messageboards generally attract like people. BlobVanDam's a good example - he decided that he didn't match the profile of the average poster particularly closely, so he left. That's what I meant by "incestuous" - discussion fosters consensus, and constant discussion encourages re-evaluation, often with past discussions echoing through the re-listener's mind, and so you'll try and find things to love in tracks that are "instant classics omg how could you not like that!!" and, possibly, see the "absolutely crap" tracks through a new lens that might take the edge off it. And if you don't feel at home, you'll leave. See also: Blob.

Thing is, I actually know quite a few DT fans outside of here. Counting on my fingers... well above, say, ten, purely through happenstance. Among them, one won't listen to anything before Scenes from a Memory because it's "all really dull." A perfectly valid opinion, but he'd be laughed out of town around here. Spoke to another once and discovered that In the Presence of Enemies Pt 2 was her favourite song by the band. The correct response to that isn't "Ouch, really?" or "lol" (and when people quote an opinion on here and say "lol" I'm generally, somewhere at the back of my mind, quoting their post in turn and saying "prick"), it's "oh, grand!"

Fandom is a curmudgeonly corner of the internet which has invested just a little too much into their favourite band. Their expectations are set sky-high, only to be pummelled back down with each consecutive album that doesn't feature lyrics by John Myung (XI's the limit!), and they've got a faintly creepy obsession with a man who left the band sixteen years ago.

They're also fantastic. But are they normal fans? Dear god no. No fan messageboard ever is, in any meaningful way. Slightly more representative than usual with a cultish band of DT's ilk, but frankly Jordan should read this messageboard, laugh, and disregard everything we have to say. (Yes, including this post.) Way too insular. Break out the iPhone, Jordy. The real fans love it.

Offline robwebster

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Re: Band Fan Messageboards...
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2011, 04:44:53 AM »
OH OH OH! Disregard the big long rant, I've got this in a single paragraph. Single line, even.

The people on band fan messageboards are Comic Book Guy. "Worst album ever." The real fans are Bart and Milhouse.

Comic Book Guy takes joy in deconstructing comics. Bart and Milhouse take joy in just reading them. While they "ooh" and "ahh" and hate the villains and love it when Radioactive Man comes up with a cheesy joke, Comic Book Guy has a profound desire to change comics. He's a lot cleverer than Bart and Milhouse, but the joy's just not there.

Truth is they're both pastiches and there's a middle ground, but we're closer to Comic Book Guy than most fans.

Offline jsem

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Re: Band Fan Messageboards...
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2011, 04:48:20 AM »
Great post Rob (the long one). Totally agreed.

the obligatory: lolITPOE


@robs second post:

I get what you mean... this forum has infected me in the way that I'm dissecting albums too much, and not just enjoying enough. Have to stop that crap.

Offline Tick

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Re: Band Fan Messageboards...
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2011, 05:47:08 AM »
Wow Rob, excellent post! You nailed it on so many levels.
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Offline Quadrochosis

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Re: Band Fan Messageboards...
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2011, 07:07:03 AM »
I'd say it's only a fair representation of internet nerd DT fans.
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Offline ariich

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Re: Band Fan Messageboards...
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2011, 08:25:02 AM »
I'd say it's only a fair representation of internet nerd DT fans.
I love that this is basically a tl;dr version of Rob's post! :lol

But yeah you guys basically summed up my thoughts.

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Offline Chino

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Re: Band Fan Messageboards...
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2011, 08:46:28 AM »

Take our board here. Do you think its a fairly accurate pulse of the Dream Theater fan ?

God, I hope not.

Offline Jamesman42

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Re: Band Fan Messageboards...
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2011, 09:31:19 AM »
I'm wondering if a good thread idea would be an "interview" to all of the members here. Just to see what the consensus is here. I think Robwebster would be great for creating the questions. This would interest me in reading others' thoughts.

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Band Fan Messageboards...
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2011, 09:49:07 AM »
I'd say it's only a fair representation of internet nerd DT fans.

Offline ZBomber

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Re: Band Fan Messageboards...
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2011, 10:02:53 AM »
I disagree with you a bit Rob. Every fan has things they like and dislike about a band. Some of the "casual" fans drop by now and then and complain about something they don't like. I'm pretty sure every fan does it. But that's a good thing. I mean, who would want to join a discussion board where every post is "I like that song" "Yeah that ones good". It's the discussion itself that makes band forums interesting. Over-analytical? Probably. But it's not something strictly for the "comic book guy" side of fandom. Are we more vocal about it? Sure.

Pretty much any person that closely listens to music will find something they don't like, or want to change, or what have you. Not all of those people post on message boards. And at the same time, a lot of people that post here are the more passive fans that don't really nitpick. Again, it's just the ones who are analytical tend to make their points heard. It's because they are more passive that people kind of... overlook their posts. But if you look, you can see in every thread that disses something about the band/a song/album, there are quite a few people that love the thing in question.

I'd say it's a pretty good representation of DT fans.

Offline ariich

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Re: Band Fan Messageboards...
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2011, 12:56:13 PM »
I disagree with you a bit Rob. Every fan has things they like and dislike about a band. Some of the "casual" fans drop by now and then and complain about something they don't like. I'm pretty sure every fan does it. But that's a good thing. I mean, who would want to join a discussion board where every post is "I like that song" "Yeah that ones good". It's the discussion itself that makes band forums interesting. Over-analytical? Probably. But it's not something strictly for the "comic book guy" side of fandom. Are we more vocal about it? Sure.

Pretty much any person that closely listens to music will find something they don't like, or want to change, or what have you. Not all of those people post on message boards. And at the same time, a lot of people that post here are the more passive fans that don't really nitpick. Again, it's just the ones who are analytical tend to make their points heard. It's because they are more passive that people kind of... overlook their posts. But if you look, you can see in every thread that disses something about the band/a song/album, there are quite a few people that love the thing in question.
I think Rob's general point is that we nitpick and overanalyse more on here than non-internet fans generally would, which doesn't necessarily make negative opinions more likely, but it is what it is. And it makes sense, because generally someone who wants to nitpick in depth or analyse something into oblivion is more likely to want to join a forum to do so, whereas someone who doesn't really think too hard about it (who, I agree, is just as likely to like or dislike a particular song/album/whatever) will be less inclined to join a discussion board.

I don't think the forum has a higher content of negative opinions that the rest of the fanbase, but I absolutely believe that said opinions are blown more out of proportion because of the nature of message boards and the people who frequent them.

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Offline CrimsonSunrise

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Re: Band Fan Messageboards...
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2011, 01:07:49 PM »
I'd say no..... I've been to 8 or so DT shows, and the folks I see there are avg age about 35.  That's deff. not indicative of this board  ;D  Also, like mentioned, I have a handful of friends who are DT fans, and don't do forums.

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Re: Band Fan Messageboards...
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2011, 01:17:13 PM »
I've been a DT fan since I&W, and didn't know message boards existed till two years ago.  I tried the Yesfans site, but it was slow and boring.  Checked out this place, and fell in love with it.  Yes you guys do overanilyze the shit out of everything music related, which is why I stay out of those discussions for the most part, because I really don't have the knowledge that most of you do.  So I probably fall into the category of a standard music fan who happened to stumble upon this place.  I belong to other forums(even a chefs forum, username-lordbacon :biggrin: ) but none ever were as entertaining as this place is on a daily basis.  What I'm trying to say is that while DTF might not be an accurate representation of the DT fanbase, there are those of us here who are your standard blue collar DT fans.

Offline robwebster

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Re: Band Fan Messageboards...
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2011, 02:13:53 PM »
I disagree with you a bit Rob. Every fan has things they like and dislike about a band. Some of the "casual" fans drop by now and then and complain about something they don't like. I'm pretty sure every fan does it. But that's a good thing. I mean, who would want to join a discussion board where every post is "I like that song" "Yeah that ones good". It's the discussion itself that makes band forums interesting. Over-analytical? Probably. But it's not something strictly for the "comic book guy" side of fandom. Are we more vocal about it? Sure.

Pretty much any person that closely listens to music will find something they don't like, or want to change, or what have you. Not all of those people post on message boards. And at the same time, a lot of people that post here are the more passive fans that don't really nitpick. Again, it's just the ones who are analytical tend to make their points heard. It's because they are more passive that people kind of... overlook their posts. But if you look, you can see in every thread that disses something about the band/a song/album, there are quite a few people that love the thing in question.
I think Rob's general point is that we nitpick and overanalyse more on here than non-internet fans generally would, which doesn't necessarily make negative opinions more likely, but it is what it is. And it makes sense, because generally someone who wants to nitpick in depth or analyse something into oblivion is more likely to want to join a forum to do so, whereas someone who doesn't really think too hard about it (who, I agree, is just as likely to like or dislike a particular song/album/whatever) will be less inclined to join a discussion board.

I don't think the forum has a higher content of negative opinions that the rest of the fanbase, but I absolutely believe that said opinions are blown more out of proportion because of the nature of message boards and the people who frequent them.
Yep, precisely.

Everyone's got negative opinions. As I said, there's one fella I know who doesn't particularly like anything before SfaM. I'm not saying that people off the messageboard don't have bits they don't like... the key difference is that they don't dwell on it. They just don't become issues. Don't like IAW? Well that's lucky, we've got Train of Thought right over here.

Offline RuRoRul

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Re: Band Fan Messageboards...
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2011, 03:11:15 PM »
I don't think band forums are always, or ever a representation of all of the fanbase. This one definitely isn't. Even in other places on the internet, you're not going to find that Falling Into Infinity is as accepted as it is here, or that Systematic Chaos is as hated, etc. There's nothing wrong with that, it just depends on the type of people who would actually join and post on that forum. Sometimes people might get it into their heads that what people say on that forum is what everyone thinks when it isn't, but that's about the worst that would come of it.

Also, just something I thought of there, forums often seem to love the old albums of a band. Obviously that's the case here, but that's a pretty common opinion since the band has changed so much and Images And Words was such a great and important album, but I've noticed it with some other bands too, even when elsewhere it seems like the new stuff is more popular. That's probably because the forums were set up years ago by older fans, and then were more attractive to fans of the old stuff.

I mean, I know if I'd first discovered Systematic Chaos on its release, loved it, and then looked to see if there was a Dream Theater forum, I probably wouldn't really have wanted to join this one after seeing everyone here hating it so much (I imagine anyway, unless the opinion when it first came out was more positive than it is now, which I doubt...), and instead would have just went and commented on Youtube or something where other people were loving it.

So yeah, like I'm sure someone's said before me, never going to be a perfect representation and they will tend to gather more people with the same viewpoints that the forum has in general.

Edit: Just read rob's post, that says it better than I have. I don't have such a negative views of forums in general or think that the people who just listen are necessarily "the real fans", but his point explains why forums aren't usually the best way to tell what all fans are thinking.