Author Topic: Awake = #1 album?  (Read 27199 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline KevShmev

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 41963
  • Gender: Male
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2011, 11:12:37 PM »
ReaPsTA pretty much nailed it, but I want to address the three main points in the OP:


1) Not enough masterpieces.  I mean, you have AMBI, which is fantastic, and SD-V (I'll probably lose some credibility at this point), and the first half of Scarred.  But then you've got CIAW, IF, Lie, 6:00, and The Mirror, which are definitely fun songs in the right context, but in no way compare to most of DT's material.

If we can assume for the sake of argument that those songs you mentioned are the least best songs from Awake, those songs take up about 40% of the album.  I would then submit that no other DT album, except for maybe I&W, has that strong of a bottom 40%.


2) Poor production.  Examples: poor editing at 7:11 with LaBrie's "-TAAAAAAY", early cutoff of the end of SD-V.


Not sure what JLB part you are talking about (at 7:11...huh?), but the production and sound of this album is arguably their best, surpassed only by FII, possibly.  But it sounds terrific.  Okay, if you are only listening on computer speakers or mp3s, then maybe you'll have a tough time hearing it, but if you listen to the actual CD on a good stereo, it sounds terrific.  It is dark, moody and airy.  To make a comparison, Train of Thought also sounds dark, moody and airy, but that record is compressed way too much (I always say how the beginning of "This Dying Soul" sounds like you are listening to the song with blankets over your speakers), while Awake has tons of room to breathe and thus sounds very alive and fresh, even to this day.


3) Lack of variety.  You have two types of songs, without much of a spectrum in between--the heavy riffy side of Lie, and the ballady side of LSOAD.  Compare with an album like FII, where you have a huge variety of sounds.

Two types of songs?  That makes little sense, unless your views of "types of songs" is extremely broad.  Since I would assume that you would say "The Silent Man" and "Space Dye Vest" fall under the same ballady side, are you going to tell me that they sound similar? 

Offline SystematicThought

  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4980
  • Gender: Male
  • Carpe Diem-2020
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2011, 11:15:59 PM »
Random side note after Kev mentioned ToT. Wasn't the production style of that album done on purpose?
God have mercy on a man
Who doubts what he's sure of.
-Bruce Springsteen

Offline liquidtension

  • Posts: 35
  • Gender: Male
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2011, 11:19:48 PM »
I think a lot of the "fanboy-ism" associated with Awake is rooted in those of us that got it on release.  When I first listened to it, it jumped right out at me and has held my interest ever since.  It felt like a natural progression from I&W.  It's similar to the way many of us (myself included) disliked FII on release.  It was too far of a departure from "their sound" and many found SFaM as a return to form.

I'm not sure how I'd feel about it if hearing it now after other albums.
He has no enemies; and none of his friends like him.

Offline IdoSC

  • Posts: 901
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2011, 11:23:21 PM »
the first half of Scarred.
Try all of Scarred. The complete song is an amazing masterpiece, a top 10 for some people, and represents both elements of this album perfectly.
But then you've got CIAW, IF, Lie, 6:00, and The Mirror, which are definitely fun songs in the right context, but in no way compare to most of DT's material.
Really? I like them a lot and I'd rather hear them over the vast majority of DT's songs.

Offline ReaPsTA

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 11204
  • Gender: Male
  • Addicted to the pain
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2011, 11:27:20 PM »
Random side note after Kev mentioned ToT. Wasn't the production style of that album done on purpose?

The mix on ToT is awesome.  JM in particular sounds great.  But the mastering overcompresses an already very compressed mix beyond the point where it's aesthetically pleasing into mush.
Take a chance you may die
Over and over again

Offline contest_sanity

  • Posts: 2346
  • Gender: Male
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #40 on: May 10, 2011, 11:42:14 PM »
I'll paste my thoughts on Awake from a long while ago, as they're still about the same:

Awake is #1 for me.  It was the first DT album I was exposed to (sometime in 1996), but its status at the top does not rest on mere sentiment alone.  Additional factors include:

- near perfect combination of heaviness with technicality and progressiveness
- JP's best solo (Voices)
- JLB's vocal performance
- diversity: heavy songs & ballads; short songs & long ones; happy, soaring melodies & dark, disturbing tones; accessible at times & hard-to-wrap-your-brain-around much of the rest
- some of their best lyrical work (Voices, SDV), as well as overall lyrical consistency
- the best instrumental
- squeezing the most amount of heaviness out of a simplistic riff EVER (The Mirror)
- galactic cowboys are thanked in the liner notes
- Awake has 5 letters; JESUS has 5 letters...

case closed.

Offline dongringo

  • Posts: 1169
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #41 on: May 10, 2011, 11:50:21 PM »
I've only been listening to DT since SC and Awake is one of my favorites. It was one of the last DT albums I heard and was completely blown away by Jame's vocals on it. He just unleashes on Awake. I also like the overall mood of it. This will probably be blasphemy to many, but imo it's better than I&W.  :omg:
.......__o
.......\ <,
....( )/ ( )

Offline contest_sanity

  • Posts: 2346
  • Gender: Male
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #42 on: May 10, 2011, 11:52:48 PM »
This will probably be blasphemy to many, but imo it's better than I&W.  :omg:
Not blasphemy to me.

Offline ?

  • Apparently the best username
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 11742
  • Gender: Male
  • Less=Moore, Even Less=Wilson
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #43 on: May 10, 2011, 11:53:51 PM »
For me Awake is simply the best DT album! :metal I can't really explain without mentioning anything that hasn't been said already.
This will probably be blasphemy to many, but imo it's better than I&W.  :omg:
Not blasphemy to me.

Offline tri.ad

  • The Invisible Man
  • DT.net Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7901
  • Gender: Male
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #44 on: May 10, 2011, 11:55:06 PM »
My thoughts on Awake have been mentioned, I suppose, but I'll add my side to this discussion, anyway.

What strikes me about Awake is its consistency. There are no bad songs on this album, and while the album doesn't contain top 10 material through and through (LSOAD is my third favourite DT song, Scarred and Voices are somewhere in the top 20), I would rank every song pretty high.

Another plus is the dark and cold atmosphere which fits perfectly well, and the production really helps here. I can't pinpoint what exactly seals the deal, I guess it's a variety of small things that you can't really single out.

Also, JLB's vocal performance is killer and I simply love pretty much all the lyrics that were written for this album (yes, even S-DV).
... And you ask me: "Where's my hairspray?"

Mentlegen.

Offline contest_sanity

  • Posts: 2346
  • Gender: Male
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #45 on: May 11, 2011, 12:08:14 AM »
Actually, I can pinpoint something very specific in my own musical development that made Awake so special.  At the time (1996), I was in 10th grade, but was still only beginning to discover a lot of music, particularly heavy shit.  Friends were introducing me to Metallica, Megadeth, Testament, Sepultura, etc.  And I was digging it.  However, I was already at that point a huge Rush fan and had been for a couple of years.  So when my friend played me Awake, and I heard the technical complexity of Rush combined with that metallic crunch of guitar -- and then those amazing vocals -- I was like: who the fuck is this band? It was like they were everything I've ever wanted and then some.  And to this day Awake is still my favorite album of all time.

Offline inoku

  • Posts: 191
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #46 on: May 11, 2011, 12:32:41 AM »
I'll paste my thoughts on Awake from a long while ago, as they're still about the same:

Awake is #1 for me.  It was the first DT album I was exposed to (sometime in 1996), but its status at the top does not rest on mere sentiment alone.  Additional factors include:

- near perfect combination of heaviness with technicality and progressiveness
- JP's best solo (Voices)
- JLB's vocal performance
- diversity: heavy songs & ballads; short songs & long ones; happy, soaring melodies & dark, disturbing tones; accessible at times & hard-to-wrap-your-brain-around much of the rest
- some of their best lyrical work (Voices, SDV), as well as overall lyrical consistency
- the best instrumental
- squeezing the most amount of heaviness out of a simplistic riff EVER (The Mirror)
- galactic cowboys are thanked in the liner notes
- Awake has 5 letters; JESUS has 5 letters...

case closed.


you've said it all dude  :tup

Offline Rathma

  • Posts: 620
  • oh no she didnt
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #47 on: May 11, 2011, 12:50:31 AM »
By far, yes.

Online Zantera

  • Wolfman's brother
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13415
  • Gender: Male
  • Bouncing around the room
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #48 on: May 11, 2011, 03:12:07 AM »
Awake has pretty much always been my favorite DT-album, and I don't think it will ever change.
For me it has the perfect amount of everything, songs doesn't have to be long in order to be good, and thankfully this album doesn't really have any 'out of place'-wankery, something I don't like with the newer DT releases.
I'd also say that I really like all songs on Awake, Voices is probably my favorite.

Offline hefdaddy42

  • Et in Arcadia Ego
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 52785
  • Gender: Male
  • Postwhore Emeritus
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #49 on: May 11, 2011, 04:53:39 AM »
1) Not enough masterpieces.  I mean, you have AMBI, which is fantastic, and SD-V (I'll probably lose some credibility at this point), and the first half of Scarred.  But then you've got CIAW, IF, Lie, 6:00, and The Mirror, which are definitely fun songs in the right context, but in no way compare to most of DT's material.

2) Poor production.  Examples: poor editing at 7:11 with LaBrie's "-TAAAAAAY", early cutoff of the end of SD-V.

3) Lack of variety.  You have two types of songs, without much of a spectrum in between--the heavy riffy side of Lie, and the ballady side of LSOAD.  Compare with an album like FII, where you have a huge variety of sounds.

So somebody explain to me why Awake is better than the rest, cause I really don't get it. =/
You're a crazy person.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Online ariich

  • Roulette Supervillain
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 27970
  • Gender: Male
  • sexin' you later
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #50 on: May 11, 2011, 05:28:51 AM »

Ariich is a freak, or somehow has more hours in the day than everyone else.
I be am boner inducing.

Offline emtee

  • Posts: 2839
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #51 on: May 11, 2011, 06:57:42 AM »
Easily my favorite DT album. Absolutely perfect. I would not change one single note. It's also in my top 5 albums
of all time. DT's masterpiece.

Offline Tomislav95

  • Posts: 6308
  • Gender: Male
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #52 on: May 11, 2011, 07:01:34 AM »
Best album IMO. I&W is only that can be compared with Awake, not FII
...the years just pass like trains
I wave but they don't slow down...

Offline ZirconBlue

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 2550
  • Gender: Male
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #53 on: May 11, 2011, 07:29:18 AM »
Awake is my favorite album, for many reasons already explained by ReaPsTA and others.  Some people have commented on MP's performance already, but in particular, I think Awake was the album that shows some of his most interesting cymbal work.  It's a big part of what makes LSoaD so compelling for me.

Offline iamtheeviltwin

  • Posts: 321
  • Gender: Male
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #54 on: May 11, 2011, 07:48:49 AM »
I just thought of something else. I remember buying Awake the day it came out and being really nervous about how it would sound. I was still a new DT fan who had devoured I&W (and didn't know about WDADU because there was no internet and record stores didn't stock it). I had such high hopes for them and didn't want to be disappointed. About 2 minutes into Voices, I realized they had actually topped my much beloved I&W (for me), and this meant they were probably going to be consistently good for years to come. It was also when I realized they'd also kept the same members for two albums (unheard of for prog-metal bands in those days, though I didn't learn about Kev 'till later) - which meant they had a chance at consistency and longevity.

In retrospect, Awake might be terrible compared to the albums that followed but I'll never be able to objectively hear that because Awake is the album that made me into a full-blown-frothing-at-the-mouth- forcing-strangers-to-listen-to-them DT fan. I have absolutely no objectivity when it comes to Awake because for me it is the entire essence of what made me a DT fan, inspired my discovery of Rush, Yes, and Iron Maiden and made me realize that I wasn't a run-of-the-mill metalhead, but rather a prog-head, and that that was something pretty unique and wonderful. It was the opening of a whole new world to me and probably the single most vivid memory I'll ever have of listening to any album for the first time.

In short, I can't fairly answer the question in the OP.

I am much in the same boat.  While Awake doesn't quite come into my rotation as much now as it used to, it still has more emotion locked into it than the other DT albums.  I jumped into DT the minute I heard "Pull Me Under" and I&W was in my cd player constantly...until Awake came out.  To me Awake was such a solid album and clearly better than I&W that I was just floored.  I probably listened to all/part of the album daily for several years.  The album came at a time in my life that just "worked"...so it is hard for me to objectively rank the album in many ways.  The emotions attached to the album are strong.

However, many of my favorite songs are on Awake (Lie, 6:00, SDV, LSOAD) and in the song rankings Awake was tied for my 3rd highest ranking album.  So even over time the Album has held up.  The one area for me that this album stands out above most of the others is just JLB's singing.  He has aged since that time and the accident did change his vocals.  He is a more mature singer now and still very capable (and honestly is central to the "sound" of DT for me...WDADU is almost unlistenable imo because of the vocals), but JLB's singing in Awake is so clean and clear that it is one of the standout points of the album compared to the rest of DT's catalogue.

Offline reo73

  • Banned
  • Posts: 395
  • Gender: Male
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #55 on: May 11, 2011, 08:02:27 AM »
As a side note the Editor in Chief of "Premier Guitar" magazine listed Awake as his guitar album guilty pleasure a few months back.  Mind you this dude is in no way a prog-head and even states in his explanation that he typically doesn't like this kind of music.  But he also says (I paraphrase) Awake is inspired with amazing guitar craft.  My feeling here is that even people who are not that into DT or that type of music appreciate Awake because of that emotional x-factor quality it possesses and it's accessibility that no other album seems to.

Offline robwebster

  • Posts: 5021
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #56 on: May 11, 2011, 08:10:49 AM »
My feeling here is that even people who are not that into DT or that type of music appreciate Awake because of that emotional x-factor quality it possesses

"WELL OI LOIKED IT."

Offline TheOutlawXanadu

  • The Original Unseasoned Fan
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 6974
  • Gender: Male
  • The Original Unseasoned Fan
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #57 on: May 11, 2011, 08:17:58 AM »
I love Awake, but in the grand scheme of things, it's not that subtle and it's not that emotional. If you don't like DT, you ain't liking Awake.

That being said (again, hate saying that...) it is the most un-DT of all DT albums, so it is the hardest to compare, and I tend to like different things about it than I do about other DT albums.
:TOX: <-- My own emoticon!

Offline Zydar

  • Creep With Tonality
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 19210
  • Gender: Male
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #58 on: May 11, 2011, 08:23:53 AM »
I like Awake now, but it was probably the DT album that took the longest for me to click with (WDADU hasn't clicked yet).

For me it doesn't have any real standout tracks, like their other albums have. A couple of tracks are better than the others, but none in the same league as Learning To Live, Finally Free, Metropolis, In The Name Of God, and such. It has climbed a couple of spots in my album ranking during the latest years, but is still only in the middle of the rankings.
Zydar is my new hero.  I just laughed so hard I nearly shat.

Offline reneranucci

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 2235
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #59 on: May 11, 2011, 08:29:51 AM »
I think it has its good share of stinkers, ranging from horrible to absolutely boring: Scarred, 6:00, Lie, CIAW, IF and SDV. I never listen to those songs.

Offline reo73

  • Banned
  • Posts: 395
  • Gender: Male
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #60 on: May 11, 2011, 09:10:56 AM »
I think it has its good share of stinkers, ranging from horrible to absolutely boring: Scarred, 6:00, Lie, CIAW, IF and SDV. I never listen to those songs.

I can't comprehend this???

Offline reneranucci

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 2235
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #61 on: May 11, 2011, 09:24:34 AM »
I think it has its good share of stinkers, ranging from horrible to absolutely boring: Scarred, 6:00, Lie, CIAW, IF and SDV. I never listen to those songs.

I can't comprehend this???
Hehe well I'm one of the few DT fans that has a really poor opinion of Awake. But it's just my opinion.

Offline reo73

  • Banned
  • Posts: 395
  • Gender: Male
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #62 on: May 11, 2011, 09:39:47 AM »
I think it has its good share of stinkers, ranging from horrible to absolutely boring: Scarred, 6:00, Lie, CIAW, IF and SDV. I never listen to those songs.

I can't comprehend this???
Hehe well I'm one of the few DT fans that has a really poor opinion of Awake. But it's just my opinion.

That's cool, we all have our faults.  ;D 

But, just to keep the cosmic universe in order I am going to listen to Awake 3X today to make up for your lack of participation.

Offline Dublagent66

  • Devouring consciousness...
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 9695
  • Gender: Male
  • ...Digesting power
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #63 on: May 11, 2011, 10:03:02 AM »
Definitely a top 5 for me, but not the best them.
"Two things are infinite; the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." -Albert Einstein
"There's not a pill you can take.  There's not a class you can go to.  Stupid is foreva."  -Ron White

Offline reneranucci

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 2235
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #64 on: May 11, 2011, 10:05:21 AM »
I think it has its good share of stinkers, ranging from horrible to absolutely boring: Scarred, 6:00, Lie, CIAW, IF and SDV. I never listen to those songs.

I can't comprehend this???
Hehe well I'm one of the few DT fans that has a really poor opinion of Awake. But it's just my opinion.

That's cool, we all have our faults.  ;D 

But, just to keep the cosmic universe in order I am going to listen to Awake 3X today to make up for your lack of participation.
:lol Ok, I can listen to Voice and The Mirror to make up for my faults.

Offline jsem

  • Posts: 4912
  • Gender: Male
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #65 on: May 11, 2011, 10:07:21 AM »
I don't like Awake too much. It's good, but not a masterpiece imo.

Offline m0hawk

  • Posts: 292
  • Gender: Male
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #66 on: May 11, 2011, 10:16:07 AM »
Not sure if anyone has made this criticism yet, but Awake's choruses have bad transitions into them, even if the chorus itself is good.

To give examples, listen to the transition from verse -> chorus in Caught In A Web and Scarred (the two biggest culprits, IMO). The choruses themselves are good, but the build-up to them kinda sucks. They rectified this issue with FII onwards, however.

That said, Awake's main difference is the lack of bombast, which is what the band excels in. It is a nice change of pace.

Offline Gadough

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8842
  • Gender: Male
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #67 on: May 11, 2011, 10:17:52 AM »
Awake is one of my least favorite Dream Theater albums. I still like it though.
Gadough isn't Hitler. He's much, much worse.

Offline robwebster

  • Posts: 5021
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #68 on: May 11, 2011, 10:24:12 AM »
That said, Awake's main difference is the lack of bombast, which is what the band excels in. It is a nice change of pace.
Absolutely. It seems odd that one of the favourite albums is the one that doesn't play to their strengths at all. It's a bit like putting a lovely horse in a dog show. Or getting a talented accountant to work as a gym teacher. I'm sure they could both do fantastic jobs - I'd love to see a brilliant horse ace a dog show - but why?

Offline FretMuppet

  • Posts: 775
  • Gender: Male
  • DAIM that looks good!
Re: Awake = #1 album?
« Reply #69 on: May 11, 2011, 10:44:13 AM »
Awake is one of my middle DT albums, but now after thinking about it, it has some pretty awesome songs, so it would probably be a bit higher now ^^