Video games legally considered a form of art

[emindead]

Ebert is gonna rage.

This is the first thing I thought of. Oh well. That old fart will just have to deal with it.

How rude.

[Ultimetalhead]

This is very good. Anyone who wants to see how a video game could be considered art needs to play Flower.

[MetalJunkie]

This does not interest me.

Then don't post in the thread.

Beat me to it.

[XJDenton]

Though I agree with the ruling, videogames aren't art in the same way rocks and paper and film aren't art.

[Sigz]

Does Portal count as non-violent? I guess blowing up computers isn't really violent.

The Sims, the Harvest Moon series, all the racing/sports games, the Phoenix Wright games, etc... but I think I do see what Super Dude is getting at.

I don't mean great as in fun to play or very popular.  I mean significant.  And I think you do know what I'm getting at.

You have a very strange view of media.

[Super Dude]

https://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2633-Non-Combat-Gaming

[blackngold29]

I've heard the argument somewhere that each time a new medium is invented the last becomes considered art. ie Movies weren't "art" for a while. What is next though, will be interesting. Interactive stories via iPad or something like that I suppose.

[Implode]

https://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2633-Non-Combat-Gaming

I was just going to link to Extra Credits. 

The good female character episode is a good example as well.

[Sigz]

The Escapist has the most invasive and annoying ads I've ever seen.

edit: But I'm not sure what that video has to do with your point SD.

[Super Dude]

Extra Credits' arguments throughout the series are, in a nutshell, what I believe videogames to be capable of.  That's where the statement that videogames can now do "significant" things comes from; they can be art, forcing us to have the uncomfortable dialogues about gender, politics, morality, violence and whatnot that we don't really expect from videogames but we've become quite accustomed to in film.

Sure, the Sims is fun, and it's non-violent.  But does it really make you think about anything except for the up-front experience?  That's what I mean when I say significance.

[ehra]

There already are games that have done that, though. They also happen to have gameplay that involves violence.

[Sigz]

Sure, the Sims is fun, and it's non-violent.  But does it really make you think about anything except for the up-front experience?  That's what I mean when I say significance.

Why is it that a game is only 'significant' when it's some kind of social or political commentary? I mean (to be mildly cliche here), take Mass Effect or Half Life for instance: they're absolutely incredible games, yet there's very little in the way of serious discussion - just a damned good story.

But in a broader sense, why can't a game be appreciated simply for the elegance of its design? Tetris is a brilliant and (I'd say) significant game simply because it's incredibly well designed, and is essentially a cultural landmark as a result. Game design is an art in and of itself, and in the same way that people will appreciate a song because it sounds nice or a painting because it looks nice they'll appreciate a game because the gamplay is elegant and fun - I don't think that's a lesser trait than having deeper meaning.

And as for The Sims, I find myself in the midst of an existential crisis after playing it for more than an hour, so... yeah.

[Super Dude]

Dude I'm part Lit major; it's the only dimension of analysis I know.

[orcus116]

The one where you make up things that aren't really there?

[XJDenton]

Sure, the Sims is fun, and it's non-violent.  But does it really make you think about anything except for the up-front experience?  That's what I mean when I say significance.

https://aliceandkev.wordpress.com/

[Sigz]

Sure, the Sims is fun, and it's non-violent.  But does it really make you think about anything except for the up-front experience?  That's what I mean when I say significance.

https://aliceandkev.wordpress.com/

Wow.

[Perpetual Change]

The one where you make up things that aren't really there?

[Kura]

Extra Credits' arguments throughout the series are, in a nutshell, what I believe videogames to be capable of.  That's where the statement that videogames can now do "significant" things comes from; they can be art, forcing us to have the uncomfortable dialogues about gender, politics, morality, violence and whatnot that we don't really expect from videogames but we've become quite accustomed to in film.

Sure, the Sims is fun, and it's non-violent.  But does it really make you think about anything except for the up-front experience?  That's what I mean when I say significance.

Whoever said anything about significance? Are you saying that some other little kid's macaroni school craft project can't be considered art because it's not significant to you or glaring some deep hidden meaning about the world?

Depends on how you define art.

[ehra]

Sure, the Sims is fun, and it's non-violent.  But does it really make you think about anything except for the up-front experience?  That's what I mean when I say significance.

https://aliceandkev.wordpress.com/

Wow.

For real.

[Edan the Man]

Sure, the Sims is fun, and it's non-violent.  But does it really make you think about anything except for the up-front experience?  That's what I mean when I say significance.

https://aliceandkev.wordpress.com/

Wow.

For real.

That was actually really good.

[Super Dude]

That's pretty cool.  I guess what I'm saying is I'd like for something cool like that to be pursued by game developers themselves; this was a largely user-driven thing.  Yes it used game mechanics to play itself out, but you could say the same of unique Half-Life 2 maps or Halo machinima.

[emindead]

Dude I'm part Lit major; it's the only dimension of analysis I know.

I'm surprised, in that case, that you have not been introduced to the art for art's sake concept, which is what Sigz is advocating for.

[blackngold29]

Sure, the Sims is fun, and it's non-violent.  But does it really make you think about anything except for the up-front experience?  That's what I mean when I say significance.

https://aliceandkev.wordpress.com/

Wow.

For real.

Wow, just read the whole thing. That was amazing. More stuff like that would be cool to see.

[Super Dude]

Dude I'm part Lit major; it's the only dimension of analysis I know.

I'm surprised, in that case, that you have not been introduced to the art for art's sake concept, which is what Sigz is advocating for.

I'm not really a fan of art for art's sake anymore, because I just feel like for art to mean something to me it has to have a context in the happenings of the world.  I dunno, maybe I'm just weird.

[Kura]

Sure, the Sims is fun, and it's non-violent.  But does it really make you think about anything except for the up-front experience?  That's what I mean when I say significance.

https://aliceandkev.wordpress.com/

Wow.

For real.

Wow, just read the whole thing. That was amazing. More stuff like that would be cool to see.

https://lparchive.org/Animal-Crossing/Update%201/

:3

[Implode]

That's incredible.

[Sigz]

That's pretty cool.  I guess what I'm saying is I'd like for something cool like that to be pursued by game developers themselves; this was a largely user-driven thing.  Yes it used game mechanics to play itself out, but you could say the same of unique Half-Life 2 maps or Halo machinima.

In a way yes, but a lot of what happened in the Alice and Kev story was driven by the game's character AI, which is a lot more than just making a custom level for single player. The story was emergent from the game mechanics in a way you don't get with those other things.

Dude I'm part Lit major; it's the only dimension of analysis I know.

I'm surprised, in that case, that you have not been introduced to the art for art's sake concept, which is what Sigz is advocating for.

I'm not really a fan of art for art's sake anymore, because I just feel like for art to mean something to me it has to have a context in the happenings of the world.  I dunno, maybe I'm just weird.

But fair enough, to his own, whatever floats your boat, etc.

[Perpetual Change]

That's pretty cool.  I guess what I'm saying is I'd like for something cool like that to be pursued by game developers themselves; this was a largely user-driven thing.  Yes it used game mechanics to play itself out, but you could say the same of unique Half-Life 2 maps or Halo machinima.

Eh, I see what you're saying, but user-driven experiences are what make games "games." As an artform, games aren't going to emulate movies or books. They're going to remain to be games. I think that the best videogames are yet to come, and will be a lot more than simply (overpriced) interactive movies.

[ehra]

I'm not really a fan of art for art's sake anymore, because I just feel like for art to mean something to me it has to have a context in the happenings of the world.  I dunno, maybe I'm just weird.

How do you feel about instrumentals?

[Super Dude]

Well who said that you couldn't get a sense of their times from their sound?

Case in point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p5ptr1BumA

[emindead]

Dude I'm part Lit major; it's the only dimension of analysis I know.

I'm surprised, in that case, that you have not been introduced to the art for art's sake concept, which is what Sigz is advocating for.

I'm not really a fan of art for art's sake anymore, because I just feel like for art to mean something to me it has to have a context in the happenings of the world.  I dunno, maybe I'm just weird.

Hey, I don't necessarily disagree with you, I just wanted to point out where Sigz was coming from.

Relevant to the discussion: https://listverse.com/2011/05/09/10-best-written-video-games/

[ehra]

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e80_1305997846

I like how after it's explained that Call of Duty isn't the type of game that would get federal funding they cut to a clip of someone playing Street Fighter