Not releasing the pics: Right choice?

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

I put this thread in GD, so more people would see it and we'd get (likely) a better representation of what DTF's opinion is.  Not after a bunch of political bickering or bullshit, there's a thread for that in P/R.  Pretty straightforward, do you think he made the right choice?

[zerogravityfat]

Yes I can live with not seeing the pic. I think there is credit to the thought of 'they will use it as propaganda'.

[Chino]

I think it was the right move. I'd love to see a picture with half of his head blown off, but it's better that I don't. We don't need an entire nation to hate us that much more.

[YtseBitsySpider]

but the moon landing, and birth certificate people will be all over this though.....while I'm comfortable with the decision...I hate how it leaves a shadow of doubt.

[ZBomber]

but the moon landing, and birth certificate people will be all over this though.....while I'm comfortable with the decision...I hate how it leaves a shadow of doubt.

This. But personally, I'm glad they didn't release the photos.

[El Barto]

but the moon landing, and birth certificate people will be all over this though.....

Those people wouldn't have been swayed by the pictures anyway. 

What surprises me is that they don't want to release the pix of the funeral. 

[YtseBitsySpider]

you make an excellent point about them not being swayed...and then you provide proof with the next statement about the funeral photos.
Those same folks wouldn't be swayed by a coffin going over the side of the boat...which could be filled with "used pinball machine parts" for all we know.

[skydivingninja]

Yeah but the funeral pic would show that we were at least respectful towards his body and buried him within 24 hours in traditional ways. 

I think it was a good idea not to release the pictures.  No need to see it, really.  Half of his skull was blown off, after all.

[lordxizor]

I'm very glad they didn't release them. Nothing good could come out of it other than fulfilling some people's morbid curiosities. The conspiracy theorists would still have their conspiracies.

[bosk1]

No, I do not.  While there are aspects that have been handled well, I think the two biggest parts of this that were mishandled were (1) not releasing the pics and (2) not bringing the body back here. 

As Cozmo posted, let's keep the bickering, etc. out of this.  But as far as justifying #2, I am NOT saying they should have done anything improper with the body.  There is no reason to disrespect the corpse or the religious traditions some believe should have been followed.  But that being said, any speculation whatsoever could be put to rest if the pics were released and/or the body were still in custody.  And, unfortunately, if it is later determined that the body is needed for whatever reason, the fact that it was buried at sea is irrevocable.  We can't just say "oops" and go get it.  It's gone. 

As far as the rest, yeah, some Muslims may be offended that it is disrespectful.  And it may lead to extremists retaliating.  But (1) it can be handled in as respectful a way as possible while still looking out for the U.S.'s interests, even that may not be quite as respectful as some Muslims would like, and (2) extremists are going to do extreme things regardless.

That's my take, for what it's worth.

[Perpetual Change]

I agree with bosk's post for the most part, though I voted "Not Sure" because I don't know what actually happened during the raid and whether whatever did would or could have caused a reaction worth being afraid of.

[skydivingninja]

There's always going to be speculation no matter what.  There are still people who think the moon landing was faked and that 9/11 was a government conspiracy.  I put enough trust in the government, regardless of who's in command, that when they say "we got Osama, here's how we did it, and then we buried him properly" I'm going to believe it.  Some things you can't really hide.  There are also always going to be extremist actions no matter what.  But I can almost guarantee you that those extremists would be in a  much fouler mood if we still had Osama's body and had not yet put him to rest, and the rest of the world would be appalled at our disrespect as well.  I think its a small great move to rebuilding our image in the eyes of the rest of the world.

I'm incredibly proud of our troops for treating the body of a man we've universally hated since 2001 with respect and dignity.  Let the conspiracy theorists speculate.  Like I said, there are some things you just can't cover up.  I feel like this is one of them.

*cue release of "Zeitgeist 5: Osama is Still Alive, Guys!"*

[Dublagent66]

My answer is yes.  The military would have to deal with the fallout.  If they don't want it released, then respecting their wishes is the right choice.  Why put the men and women of the armed forces in more danger than they're already in just to satisfy people's morbid curiosities?

[Chino]

I type this while watching Obama at Ground Zero. The images wont get released because we don't want to make it seem like a trophy for killing Osama. How is Obama laying down this wreath any different?

[Dublagent66]

I type this while watching Obama at Ground Zero. The images wont get released because we don't want to make it seem like a trophy for killing Osama. How is Obama laying down this wreath any different?

Because it's honoring the fallen.  It's the least he could do after honoring a terrorist's religious burial rites.  A lot of the victims at ground zero were never even recovered.

[Quadrochosis]

It's the least he could do after honoring a terrorist's religious burial rites.

seriously?

[Adami]

Not releasing them was a good idea.

[Dublagent66]

It's the least he could do after honoring a terrorist's religious burial rites.

seriously?

Yeah, seriously.  Why do you think he's at ground zero today?

[Orbert]

Voted Yes.

[lordxizor]

On a side note, can you imagine Bin Laden, hiding out for the last 10 years, knowing that the entire Western world would kill him on site. He hears the choppers... hear gunshots... knows they finally found him and that he's going to die in mere moments. Gotta wonder what's going through a person's head in that situation.

[Chino]

On a side note, can you imagine Bin Laden, hiding out for the last 10 years, knowing that the entire Western world would kill him on site. He hears the choppers... hear gunshots... knows they finally found him and that he's going to die in mere moments. Gotta wonder what's going through a person's head in that situation.

"man, it took em' long enough" or "shit"

You know what would have been funny, if we shot him while he was dropping a deuce.

[El Barto]

Something I'd like to add.  During GWII, our side threw a pretty big fit over the release of photographs of dead American soldiers.  That was considered way out of bounds.  We then plastered the photos of Udai and Qusai's bullet riddled corpses all over the place.  I thought this was kind of bullshit.  I don't like hypocrisy.  Most people have probably forgotten about all of that, but I haven't.  I'm kind of happy that we've decided to fall back to decency for once.  

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

You know what would have been funny, if we shot him while he was dropping a deuce.

Funny enough:

Osama Bin Laden Killed While Sitting On Toilet, Nation Likes To Imagine

[bosk1]

Something I'd like to add.  During GWII, our side threw a pretty big fit over the release of photographs of dead American soldiers.  That was considered way out of bounds.  We then plastered the photos of Udai and Qusai's bullet riddled corpses all over the place.  I thought this was kind of bullshit.  I don't like hypocrisy.  Most people have probably forgotten about all of that, but I haven't.  I'm kind of happy that we've decided to fall back to decency for once. 

Maybe this is hypocritical, but I see a difference.  Individual soldiers deserve their privacy.  They aren't public figures who have put themselves in the spotlight like Bin Ladin or the Hussein boys.  I don't like the term "high value target," but for lack of a better term, when your military takes out a high value target on the other side, while it is distasteful and smacks of a lot of bad qualities to go overboard with posting pics, I don't have much problem with a photo or two that show that your military did indeed take out a key player.

[ReaPsTA]

The photos should have been released.  It actualizes the event in the viewer's mind in a way simply hearing about it doesn't.  Also, it helps to further eliminate doubt about the authenticity of the killing.

[chknptpie]

I'm okay without seeing the photo of a dead man. Video of the raid on the other hand...

[El Barto]

I'm okay without seeing the photo of a dead man. Video of the raid on the other hand...

Man, I'm right there with you.  I believe he's dead, and pictures of stiffs are a dime a dozen.  Video of that operation, though...

Something I'd like to add.  During GWII, our side threw a pretty big fit over the release of photographs of dead American soldiers.  That was considered way out of bounds.  We then plastered the photos of Udai and Qusai's bullet riddled corpses all over the place.  I thought this was kind of bullshit.  I don't like hypocrisy.  Most people have probably forgotten about all of that, but I haven't.  I'm kind of happy that we've decided to fall back to decency for once. 

Maybe this is hypocritical, but I see a difference.  Individual soldiers deserve their privacy.  They aren't public figures who have put themselves in the spotlight like Bin Ladin or the Hussein boys.  I don't like the term "high value target," but for lack of a better term, when your military takes out a high value target on the other side, while it is distasteful and smacks of a lot of bad qualities to go overboard with posting pics, I don't have much problem with a photo or two that show that your military did indeed take out a key player.

That's a pretty reasonable POV.  I would suggest, though, that there's a David v. Goliath element that would make dead Americans noteworthy.

[LeeHarveyKennedy]

Let's be honest, they'll pop up in the next few years anyway. Someone somewhere will eventually leak them.

In the meantime, the only people who care about those pictures are the people who would still be unswayed by them and find something to tear apart in them, claiming they were doctored or obviously not OBL. Better to not pander to the lunatic majority any more than necessary.

[Orbert]

The photos should have been released.  It actualizes the event in the viewer's mind in a way simply hearing about it doesn't.  Also, it helps to further eliminate doubt about the authenticity of the killing.

Those who doubt that it happened will declare the photos fake and continue to doubt.  Think "birth certificate".

[rumborak]

Definitely the right choice. Taking the high road is never a bad choice. If it gives hemorrhoids to a bunch of habitual naysayers, that is hardly a loss.

And yeah, just to summarize: The effect of releasing the pictures would be
- Pissing off the Arab world for gloating and showcasing tasteless pictures
- Convince none of the questioners ("The pixels, they do nothing!")
- Bring nobody "closure" or "satisfaction" or whatever euphemism people use for their morbid curiosity.

Just listen to who it is asking publicly for the release. It's all Republicans, who use this incident to put a scratch on the image push this event has caused for Obama.

rumborak

[7StringedBeast]

Yeah I think releasing the pictures is unnecessary.  If the Government made this huge deal out of killing Osama and went on national TV to tell everyone, then you know damn well they got him.  They would not lie about this.  It's too big to be lying about.  Also, if they were lying, they would have just lied about it years ago.  Why wait 10 years?  The fact is, he is dead, and you will never see or hear from him again unless they have old recordings of him.  The dude is dead.

I also agree that pictures are not going to sway the skeptics.  The instant reaction will be photo shopped or not Osama.

[Chino]

I just think, I include myself in this, that all of us had to watch people hurl themselves off of buildings in fear of being burned alive. I would get satifaction out of seeing half that mans face missing, as bad as that may sound.

[rumborak]

Let's be honest, they'll pop up in the next few years anyway. Someone somewhere will eventually leak them.

I don't see that at all. It's one thing to leak embassy cables (which are very low-security), another thing to leak pictures that only a very few people had in their hands. The fewer people possess a certain item the more likely it is to be traced back to you and thus be less likely to be leaked.

rumborak

[El Barto]

Plus, we'd never know if they were real or not.

[MetalMike06]

I checked "not sure". On one hand I don't think it should be kept from us, but at the same time, it's not really necessary to see. Anybody who's just dying to see a mangled, bloody corpse is taking their excitement in his death a bit too far, IMO.