Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread

[Prog Snob]

While an Arya, Jon (and to a lesser degree, Sansa) reunion would be nice...I really want Arya to have a reunion with Nymeria! That could make for some real trouble!!

She'll find Nymeria at some point.

I feel like the Hound has to have another encounter with either Arya or Brienne.

The season finale didn't show an update for Brienne, so she and Pod are heading back to Sansa and Jon I'm assuming. Brienne could also run into Arya so maybe they all go back to Winterfell together. The last time we saw The Hound it appeared as if the Brotherhood were convincing him to join them and fight for good. It would be interesting to see what happens if The Hound ran into Arya or Brienne.

[Chino]

Think the Hound ends up having to square off against the Mountain?

[Prog Snob]

Think the Hound ends up having to square off against the Mountain?

I don't know if that would happen. They're in two different places. Maybe if there's another trial once Cersei gets ousted and brought up on her crimes and there's a trial by combat or something. I don't know.

[gmillerdrake]

Think the Hound ends up having to square off against the Mountain?

I know it's a fan desire but like John said, two different places that don't look like they'll ever cross paths. I think the hound is going to be fighting White Walkers and the Mountain will be fighting Dothraki.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

I for one think that we'll get the Mountain vs. The Hound. Sure they're in different places at the moment, but this show has shown us that things can change in a hurry.

[Logain Ablar]

Personally, I'd love to see The Hound vs The Mountain too.

I know they are in different locations, but I can't help thinking that the writers must have kept him (The Hound) alive for some other purpose than simply going off to fight in the North against the white walkers. I think his character may seem a little lost being part of a large battle like that.

He's got personal scores to settle, whether that's with Brienne, Arya or his brother. It would be interesting to see how he'd react to meeting Arya again, since she didn't technically kill him, just left him for dead. I'm not sure if that's something you could get over, with time.. 

I'm probably wrong about that, but the unpredictability is one of the coolest things about this show. I didn't see Margaery's demise coming - I honestly thought there was another sub-plot developing there.

[cramx3]

I feel like the Hound has to have another encounter with either Arya or Brienne.

The season finale didn't show an update for Brienne, so she and Pod are heading back to Sansa and Jon I'm assuming. Brienne could also run into Arya so maybe they all go back to Winterfell together. The last time we saw The Hound it appeared as if the Brotherhood were convincing him to join them and fight for good. It would be interesting to see what happens if The Hound ran into Arya or Brienne.

And the Brotherhood said they were headed north so it's very possible they run into Brienne on the way.

I also still think we get Cleganebowl just not the way we thought we might this season.  Who else is going to kill the Mountain?

[gmillerdrake]

Jaime can kill the Mountain.

[orcus116]

The Mountain's Frankenstein heart finally gives out and he dies on natural causes in his own bed surrounded by friends and family.

[hefdaddy42]

Jaime can kill the Mountain.

I doubt it.

[cramx3]

Jaime can kill the Mountain.

I doubt it.

I doubt it too.  So far he hasn't shown to be anywhere near the fighter he once was (this could change, but he's becoming more of a peacemaker than fighter it seems) and even then it would not have been an easy fight.

[seasonsinthesky]

That helmet on Ser Robert Strong is just open enough for Needle to stick in his eyes. There'd be something interesting if Arya intervened in a Hound vs. Mountain battle and saved the Hound, considering she left him for dead before. Maybe the Brotherhood Without Banners tell her about how he avenged Septon Ray and she thinks he's turned into a Good Dude.

[hefdaddy42]

By my count, here are the remaining names on Arya's list.

Cersei Lannister
Ilyn Payne
Gregor Clegane
Sandor Clegane
Melisandre
Beric Dondarrion
Thoros of Myr

I don't think she would still kill the Hound; she had a chance to do so and left him there. 

So, do we think she stays in the riverlands to hunt down Beric and Thoros, or head to Kings Landing to try for Cersei, Payne, and the Mountain?

[Podaar]

I'm not sure, at this stage, if Arya still has Mel, Beric and Thoros on her list. If she met up with them (or Davos) they could tell her that Gendry is (most likely) back in King's Landing...where the other three on her list happen to be. I won't be surprised if she heads that direction next.

[gmillerdrake]

Jaime can kill the Mountain.

I doubt it.

I doubt it too.  So far he hasn't shown to be anywhere near the fighter he once was (this could change, but he's becoming more of a peacemaker than fighter it seems) and even then it would not have been an easy fight.

On the surface it seems highly doubtful. But Jamie 'used' to be a good swordsman....and the only thing the Mountain has going for him is size. I think Jamie could dance around him as well and find a kill shot. Maybe he's continued practicing and he'd surprise everyone?

Out of Arya, the Hound or Jamie.....he is the most likely narratively to fight the Mountain. It appeared to me he was a bit taken a back by Cersi's move, and it's not out of the question he will start turning against her. The Mountain stands in the way of getting to her.

[Chino]

Jaime can kill the Mountain.

I doubt it.

I doubt it too.  So far he hasn't shown to be anywhere near the fighter he once was (this could change, but he's becoming more of a peacemaker than fighter it seems) and even then it would not have been an easy fight.

On the surface it seems highly doubtful. But Jamie 'used' to be a good swordsman....and the only thing the Mountain has going for him is size. I think Jamie could dance around him as well and find a kill shot. Maybe he's continued practicing and he'd surprise everyone?

Out of Arya, the Hound or Jamie.....he is the most likely narratively to fight the Mountain. It appeared to me he was a bit taken a back by Cersi's move, and it's not out of the question he will start turning against her. The Mountain stands in the way of getting to her.

I'm not sure if Jamie could take the Mountain by himself, but it could be possible. We already saw his metal hand get him out of one sword fight, so I don't think we'll see that happen a second time (unless he does it on purpose). Could Brienne come in with her Valyrian steel sword and tag team against him? That'd actually be a pretty cool thing to see, I think. You can tell Brienne and Jamie had a good amount of respect for each other.

[Prog Snob]

Jaime can kill the Mountain.

I doubt it.

I doubt it too.  So far he hasn't shown to be anywhere near the fighter he once was (this could change, but he's becoming more of a peacemaker than fighter it seems) and even then it would not have been an easy fight.

On the surface it seems highly doubtful. But Jamie 'used' to be a good swordsman....and the only thing the Mountain has going for him is size. I think Jamie could dance around him as well and find a kill shot. Maybe he's continued practicing and he'd surprise everyone?

Out of Arya, the Hound or Jamie.....he is the most likely narratively to fight the Mountain. It appeared to me he was a bit taken a back by Cersi's move, and it's not out of the question he will start turning against her. The Mountain stands in the way of getting to her.

I'm not sure if Jamie could take the Mountain by himself, but it could be possible. We already saw his metal hand get him out of one sword fight, so I don't think we'll see that happen a second time (unless he does it on purpose). Could Brienne come in with her Valyrian steel sword and tag team against him? That'd actually be a pretty cool thing to see, I think. You can tell Brienne and Jamie had a good amount of respect for each other.

You need someone with the speed of Oberyn. He did beat him. He just had to make that killing blow but his arrogance fucked him. For all intents and purposes, he had that fight won. So as far as technique, to beat the mountain, you have to be fast. Jaime just isn't there anymore.

Personally, I'd love to see The Hound vs The Mountain too.

I know they are in different locations, but I can't help thinking that the writers must have kept him (The Hound) alive for some other purpose than simply going off to fight in the North against the white walkers. I think his character may seem a little lost being part of a large battle like that.

He's got personal scores to settle, whether that's with Brienne, Arya or his brother. It would be interesting to see how he'd react to meeting Arya again, since she didn't technically kill him, just left him for dead. I'm not sure if that's something you could get over, with time.. 

He went from being the lapdog of Joffrey to a fan favorite. I think that it would poor writing to not make the character completely absolve himself of his past. Maybe he does wind up as the Valonqar.

So, do we think she stays in the riverlands to hunt down Beric and Thoros, or head to Kings Landing to try for Cersei, Payne, and the Mountain?

I think she'll run into either Brienne or the Brothers. Maybe she sees Melisandre and she tells her that Sansa and Jon are up north. How about this? This is just my active imagination. Melisandre brings her back to Winterfell to make sure she arrives safely, but also in hopes that Jon will forgive her. Does Jon give her another chance due to the return of his "sister" (cousin now)? Doubtful, but there are so many ways for Arya to get back to Jon.

[MirrorMask]

You need someone with the speed of Oberyn. He did beat him. He just had to make that killing blow but his arrogance fucked him. For all intents and purposes, he had that fight won. So as far as technique, to beat the mountain, you have to be fast. Jaime just isn't there anymore.

Bronn himself figured out that this was the way to go. When discussing with Tyrion if he realistically could kill the Mountain, he was musing "Maybe I could dance around him 'til he's tired, get him off his feet somehow"... and that's exactly what Oberyn did, with the added benefit of pissing him off and making him nervous which surely helped him.

[gmillerdrake]

I'm not sure if Jamie could take the Mountain by himself, but it could be possible.

I think it'd be set up as there's no possible way he could do it....it'd be suicide. But, he would ultimately draw upon his 'warrior spirit' and past experience...so on so forth....and, I'd bet he's still been training to re-learn sword fighting despite us not seeing it....he's too proud not to....and maybe he shocks everyone by outlasting then killing the Mountain.

[cramx3]

So, do we think she stays in the riverlands to hunt down Beric and Thoros, or head to Kings Landing to try for Cersei, Payne, and the Mountain?

I think she'll run into either Brienne or the Brothers. Maybe she sees Melisandre and she tells her that Sansa and Jon are up north. How about this? This is just my active imagination. Melisandre brings her back to Winterfell to make sure she arrives safely, but also in hopes that Jon will forgive her. Does Jon give her another chance due to the return of his "sister" (cousin now)? Doubtful, but there are so many ways for Arya to get back to Jon.

Interesting thought, like she killed a young girl so now her redemption could be to help a young girl.... except I don't see how Arya would need Melisandre since Arya is clearly badass enough at this point to get where she needed to and kill as needed.  Interesting to think about this.  We all can agree Melisandre's story is not over yet.

[Prog Snob]

So, do we think she stays in the riverlands to hunt down Beric and Thoros, or head to Kings Landing to try for Cersei, Payne, and the Mountain?

I think she'll run into either Brienne or the Brothers. Maybe she sees Melisandre and she tells her that Sansa and Jon are up north. How about this? This is just my active imagination. Melisandre brings her back to Winterfell to make sure she arrives safely, but also in hopes that Jon will forgive her. Does Jon give her another chance due to the return of his "sister" (cousin now)? Doubtful, but there are so many ways for Arya to get back to Jon.

Interesting thought, like she killed a young girl so now her redemption could be to help a young girl.... except I don't see how Arya would need Melisandre since Arya is clearly badass enough at this point to get where she needed to and kill as needed.  Interesting to think about this.  We all can agree Melisandre's story is not over yet.

Arya could undoubtedly get home herself, but I think Melisandre would be concerned for her safety regardless. Whoever it is, someone will run into Arya in the first or second episode next season.

[cramx3]

I feel pretty certain of that as well

[Prog Snob]

Okay, so how many days left?

[Progmetty]

Chino I like how you're bringing the kind of discussions that we have in the TWD thread while we're waiting for a new season to the GoT thread

By my count, here are the remaining names on Arya's list.

Cersei Lannister
Ilyn Payne
Gregor Clegane
Sandor Clegane
Melisandre
Beric Dondarrion
Thoros of Myr

Last time she recited the list, it was much shorter than that, I believe only Cersei and The Mountain are on it now.

[ariich]

Yeah I'm pretty sure she took The Hound off it, after she left him to die slowly.

[Prog Snob]

I was just reading Cersei's prophecy again and this part gave me an idea.

"And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

We know that Valonqar means little brother. The part that mentions "tears have drowned you" makes me wonder what her tears would be from. Tommen is her last child left and she loves no one else except for Jaime. So does Jaime die and then Tyrion kill her? We know Jaime said he would kill Tyrion for murdering their father. What if Jaime tries to kill him, or have Bronn try to do it (which would be the total GRRM thing to do), and they both get killed by an unsullied or a Dothraki fighter?

[Genowyn]

Jaime is the Valonqar. It is mentioned that Jaime came out after Cersei, holding her foot, so technically he is younger than her by a little while.

And for the love of god no Cleganebowl, please. I know this show doesn't care about character arcs or themes but that is so not the point of Sandor's story.

[cramx3]

And for the love of god no Cleganebowl, please. I know this show doesn't care about character arcs or themes but that is so not the point of Sandor's story.

What is then?  Not saying you are wrong, but I want to know why you feel you know what the point of his story is.

[Genowyn]

Reading comprehension

Like, Sandor is who he is as a result of Gregor's abuse, but the end of his story is not a big battle with Frankengregor. The Hound can live out his days as the Gravedigger as far as I'm concerned (not taking the show's word for it that he leaves that situation), because ultimately where he ends up is in this state of rejecting the violence and cruelty his brother represents... and you don't rise above the violence through, y'know, violence.

Obviously I don't know what Martin has planned for the character... but I have enough faith in him as a writer that I don't think something as hackneyed as Cleganebowl isn't in the cards.

[cramx3]

Reading comprehension

Like, Sandor is who he is as a result of Gregor's abuse, but the end of his story is not a big battle with Frankengregor. The Hound can live out his days as the Gravedigger as far as I'm concerned (not taking the show's word for it that he leaves that situation), because ultimately where he ends up is in this state of rejecting the violence and cruelty his brother represents... and you don't rise above the violence through, y'know, violence.

Obviously I don't know what Martin has planned for the character... but I have enough faith in him as a writer that I don't think something as hackneyed as Cleganebowl isn't in the cards.

Well I think we both can agree that book and show version of Sandor is and may be very different going forward.

But the show has already shown that he can't escape the violence that follows him and he has already returned to being violent.  So how can you say the end of his story is not to take out the one who started the whole thing for him, his brother?  Sounds a lot like what you think the end of his story should be but not what we've seen so far.  Of course he can always end up returning to being peaceful, but it doesn't appear to be that way until he get's his "revenge" (or whatever, who knows what his real goal is at this point, it wasn't made clear if he even joins the Brotherhood although my opinion is that he will, ya know fight for a better cause now since he is clearly not a "bad guy").  Also these are just my views based on what we've seen, I'm certainly not claiming anything to be correct. 

And I'm not sure how your reading comprehension is any better than mine since this is a TV show. 

[Genowyn]

Any opinion I express is based on the books. I don't think the Cleganebowl will happen in the books. I would not be at all surprised if it happens on the show because that's the kind of shit the writers go in for (but not Lady Stoneheart for whatever reason).

[faizoff]

So is it a big deal if Jon Snow doesn't have silver hair like the other Targaryens? I thought that was the dominant trait of the Targaryens, or did he just inherit his mother's hair gene?

[ZirconBlue]

So is it a big deal if Jon Snow doesn't have silver hair like the other Targaryens? I thought that was the dominant trait of the Targaryens, or did he just inherit his mother's hair gene?

No, many Targaryens did not have silver hair.

[seasonsinthesky]

Reading comprehension

Like, Sandor is who he is as a result of Gregor's abuse, but the end of his story is not a big battle with Frankengregor. The Hound can live out his days as the Gravedigger as far as I'm concerned (not taking the show's word for it that he leaves that situation), because ultimately where he ends up is in this state of rejecting the violence and cruelty his brother represents... and you don't rise above the violence through, y'know, violence.

Obviously I don't know what Martin has planned for the character... but I have enough faith in him as a writer that I don't think something as hackneyed as Cleganebowl isn't in the cards.

Totally valid and well considered view. And if this wasn't written by GRRM, that's likely what would happen; but since it is written by him, there's no way the Hound'll be left to gravedigging until after he approaches his former life from a redemptive angle (i.e. righting what he now sees as wrongs).

This is only if he's the gravedigger, of course. His depiction in that role in the show is potentially another act of character merging, like what seems to be Arya's taking over Stoneheart's drive/actions.

[cramx3]

So is it a big deal if Jon Snow doesn't have silver hair like the other Targaryens? I thought that was the dominant trait of the Targaryens, or did he just inherit his mother's hair gene?

No, many Targaryens did not have silver hair.

Also in book, since we can read Catelyns thoughts as a POV character, we know one reason she really disliked Jon was because he looked so much like a Stark.