Author Topic: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread  (Read 271059 times)

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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5705 on: August 29, 2017, 05:54:27 AM »
Do you want to see ol' headless Ned?
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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5706 on: August 29, 2017, 06:09:28 AM »
Flanders?

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5707 on: August 29, 2017, 06:17:36 AM »
Very cool episode.... I literally cheered when Sansa turned the tables, like by myself in my room screaming "FUCK YEAH!!!!!!", and Arya's turn to a smile right after was fucking brilliant.

Sansa didn't listen to her dad though. Didn't he say something way back when about the person who gives the sentence should be the one to swing the sword?

Why should she when she has such a skilled assassin at her side?

Plus, he told that to Robb..... not her. She has no idea he ever said that.
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Offline kaos2900

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5708 on: August 29, 2017, 06:50:40 AM »
The one thing I wish they did differently was to have Sansa make Littlefinger explain his actions. Was he going for the throne or did he just like to create chaos?

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5709 on: August 29, 2017, 07:12:34 AM »
The only thing that annoyed me last episode was the fact that he broke down like a little bitch and started crying. I feel like that wasn't his character at all.

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5710 on: August 29, 2017, 07:21:54 AM »
The only thing that annoyed me last episode was the fact that he broke down like a little bitch and started crying. I feel like that wasn't his character at all.

I thought it was perfect and right in line with the character.  He's always manipulating and always in the background, but has never been a fighter.  When someone finally called him to the carpet for his actions and he ran out of options to get himself out of the situation, he panics and begs. 

For book readers, Aiden Gillan also said it's a callback to when the character was younger and was humiliated in a duel in front of Catelyn by Brandon Stark - he goes back to that kind of a reaction.  Littlefinger isn't a fighter and doesn't have much courage, he's just a liar and when words fail him, he has nothing left in his arsenal.

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5711 on: August 29, 2017, 07:23:12 AM »
The only thing that annoyed me last episode was the fact that he broke down like a little bitch and started crying. I feel like that wasn't his character at all.

I think it was, despite not usually acting like that. It's just that he's never been caught out like that and so thoroughly fucked. He's always so careful and conniving, and crying was probably his last ditch effort to appeal to Sansa's compassion, because he was desperate. Bran had told them everything, there was no way to cover it up, and Arya was just waiting to slit his throat. What else was left to try? :lol
I think it helped highlight how screwed he was, because he's never had to resort to it, but it fits with him being a little bitch who manipulates behind people's backs, rather than ever confronting it face to face.
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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5712 on: August 29, 2017, 07:52:20 AM »
The comment about ol' headless Ned has me thinking: Jon said the wights can be destroyed with dragonglass and fire. Was there ever anything about simply chopping off their heads? Would that kill a wight? And if so, in the hypothetical case that some Starks were to be reanimated by the Night King, would Ned even be able to be reanimated? Asking the important questions here. For science. For your health.
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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5713 on: August 29, 2017, 07:56:42 AM »
The comment about ol' headless Ned has me thinking: Jon said the wights can be destroyed with dragonglass and fire. Was there ever anything about simply chopping off their heads? Would that kill a wight? And if so, in the hypothetical case that some Starks were to be reanimated by the Night King, would Ned even be able to be reanimated? Asking the important questions here. For science. For your health.

In this episode, we saw its limbs still moving independently after being cut off, so I don't see why we couldn't have a headless body, or a head on its own. I don't know how much use a headless body would be without eye sight, but I'm sure it would still put up a hell of a fight trying. :lol
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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5714 on: August 29, 2017, 08:06:34 AM »
If headless Ned does get to come back, Sean Bean could get to be killed twice in the same show. I'm sure that's a record, even for him..  :biggrin:

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5715 on: August 29, 2017, 08:13:54 AM »
The only thing that annoyed me last episode was the fact that he broke down like a little bitch and started crying. I feel like that wasn't his character at all.

I think it was. Hearing the stories of him when he was younger it's clear he couldn't fight and was pretty much a weakling in that respect.....I'd imagine he broke down and cried quite a bit. I think him doing that in the end....staring death in the eyes and crying like 'a little bitch' was fitting and spot on. Especially in contrast to Ned and other characters who in similar situations 'took it like a man'. Little Finger WAS a little bitch.....and him crying like that was perfect.


***edit****  just read Grapplers post.....basically same point.....
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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5716 on: August 29, 2017, 08:24:02 AM »
The comment about ol' headless Ned has me thinking: Jon said the wights can be destroyed with dragonglass and fire. Was there ever anything about simply chopping off their heads? Would that kill a wight? And if so, in the hypothetical case that some Starks were to be reanimated by the Night King, would Ned even be able to be reanimated? Asking the important questions here. For science. For your health.

In this episode, we saw its limbs still moving independently after being cut off, so I don't see why we couldn't have a headless body, or a head on its own. I don't know how much use a headless body would be without eye sight, but I'm sure it would still put up a hell of a fight trying. :lol

In the Walking Dead/various zombie media, don't you kill zombies by cutting off their heads or braining them with a shotgun or something? It would be hilarious to see those screaming headless torsos running amok. That's a good band name... wait...
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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5717 on: August 29, 2017, 10:08:31 AM »
So, concerning the dead, does the dragonglass just have to touch them? It seems there's always that shattering sound when it hits and they just die, or with the walkers they literally shatter.
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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5718 on: August 29, 2017, 11:22:03 AM »
I agree with those who bought into Littlefinger's desperate begging, the man was at his best always as an unseen shadow and he got his ass kicked the one time he tried to actually fight for Cat's hand, so it's only logical that when exposed with no way out he shows no dignity.

I was reading comments here and there on the web, and someone said how in the books his plan is to probably wait out the impending showdown between a still alive Stannis and the Boltons, with Sansa safely at the Eyrie. His plan is probably to install Sansa as Lady of Winterfell once the Boltons are rooted out, and continuing to rule the Vale AND having a close ally at hand in the North.

Makes sense, given his ever upward quest to attain power, that's why I lamented in one of my comments earlier how his storyline seemed to go nowhere, with no clear grand plan in sight rather than making Sansa and Arya fight.

And anyway - someone REALLY needed to tell the dude that saying "I loved your mother, then I loved you" is very creepy, and that really DOESN'T help his situation. How many times he was insulted or almost beaten because of it, and still he continues to say it?  :lol
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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5719 on: August 30, 2017, 05:41:01 AM »
Ned wouldn't really be able to come back I think. It's not like there's a body and a head, all that's left are bones. Not even a skeleton, just "bones" in a box.
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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5720 on: August 31, 2017, 08:58:12 AM »
I love the show (and the books) and thoroughly enjoy the spectacle, acting and characters. I wouldn't miss it for the world.

Still, unless I'm missing something, the plot is a complete house of cards. It's hard to recall all the circumstances that had to line up perfectly for the army of the dead to even have a chance at all. We are lead to believe, through the story, that there is no way that the white walkers, undead and Night King can pass the wall if it is intact. Once Jon allowed the wildlings through the wall, all anyone needed to do was gather supplies and wait out the winter. The Knight King can beat his head against it all he wants.

What he really needs is an undead dragon to create enough fire to attack the wall itself. At the beginning of the story dragons are extinct, so he's basically fucked. Yet, Dany receives dragon eggs for a wedding present...

Are we supposed to assume that the Night King has the foresight to see the mindbogglingly long chain of events that culminated in Tyrion (who has now become the biggest dumbass in the show. Sad) suggesting they go trap a wight to present to his sister? So, now all the Night King has to do is threaten the trapping party long enough that the owner of the dragons feels the need to come to the rescue? No wonder "the Others" had faded into myth. The circumstances required get past Brandon the Builder's wall is so small as to be nearly non-existent. Yet, our heroes unwittingly built the chain and rushed right into their own destruction like lemmings going over the cliff.

Mind you, I'm not really complaining. It's interesting to think about. Hopefully, when everything is said and done, we'll find out that the Night King was manipulating events (somehow) to bring it all together.

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5721 on: August 31, 2017, 10:14:18 AM »
I'm just curious as to what they actually want. It feels a bit not like George RR Martin to have them just be pure evil without reason. That might help to explain some of their actions. Everyone has been freaking out over them getting south of the wall, but maybe it wasn't even their intention to begin with.

I don't know though, just word pooping here.
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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5722 on: August 31, 2017, 10:28:45 AM »
I may be mistaken, but aren't the white walkers a creation of the children of the forest that got away from them? They were supposed to drive out (wipe out) the first men but they ended up killing everything in their path. Eventually, the children of the forest had to side with the men to drive the white walkers north and pin them behind the wall.

At least, that was my understanding.

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5723 on: August 31, 2017, 10:30:28 AM »
I'm just curious as to what they actually want. It feels a bit not like George RR Martin to have them just be pure evil without reason. That might help to explain some of their actions. Everyone has been freaking out over them getting south of the wall, but maybe it wasn't even their intention to begin with.

I don't know though, just word pooping here.
Yeah, exactly. Hence all the theories about Bran being the Night King or about the ending involving Jon brokering a peace with the Others/White Walkers. There have definitely been some moments of suspect writing this season, but some of the big questions and possible inconsistencies we can't judge until we reach the end of the show.

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5724 on: August 31, 2017, 10:38:08 AM »
With the recent information about being able to kill groups of undead by killing the white walker who turned them, I doubt peace is the conclusion they're building to.
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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5725 on: August 31, 2017, 11:11:52 AM »
I think the peace idea is more stemmed from the books where there is more lore to the white walkers and in that lore, they have personality.  In the show, they are speechless zombies, I don't think there is any negotiation tactic in the show.

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5726 on: August 31, 2017, 12:36:45 PM »
I think the peace idea is more stemmed from the books where there is more lore to the white walkers and in that lore, they have personality.  In the show, they are speechless zombies, I don't think there is any negotiation tactic in the show.

Yeah, I'm afraid that the show may go for a simpler route, even though if GRR Martin told the authors the ending, and supposedly they have to stick to the original plan. They may do like the Harry Potter movies, they were all faithful to the books and then they kinda screwed up the very end, with Voldermort's demise.

I like the idea that the Wall is meant to keep the HUMANS at bay, not the White Walkers. That there was a pact "Ok, this is our reign, you do not cross this line" and men crossed it and now they pissed them off.
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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5727 on: August 31, 2017, 12:38:37 PM »
Still, unless I'm missing something, the plot is a complete house of cards. It's hard to recall all the circumstances that had to line up perfectly for the army of the dead to even have a chance at all. We are lead to believe, through the story, that there is no way that the white walkers, undead and Night King can pass the wall if it is intact. Once Jon allowed the wildlings through the wall, all anyone needed to do was gather supplies and wait out the winter. The Knight King can beat his head against it all he wants.

In season 5, they almost got through the wall by using a giant to attack the gates/tunnel through the wall.  The Night's Watch barely had enough men to hold them off, lost a great percentage of them, and it took Stannis' army to finish the job.  The Night's Watch has been campaigning for more men for the entire series - it's pretty easy to figure out that the Night King and his army would eventually overrun the wall.  That's why Jon is trying to get everyone on the same page.  He led the Night's Watch, he knows how great the enemy's army is.  He knows that they will eventually breach the wall.  It's just an obstacle, but there are existing ways through it.

The thing with the dragon was the spectacle of melting the wall down, the drama of watching it crumble and allowing the army to march through en masse, rather than filter through a tunnel.  I don't think it was perfect chain of events that led to them getting through the wall. and the Night King just took advantage of the fact that there were a few dragons around to kill one of them for his own use.  I don't believe in this foresight thing.  He can see Bran when Bran is warging and vice versa.  Not when Bran is just sitting around with no dial up connection established.

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5728 on: August 31, 2017, 12:44:28 PM »
Speaking about the ice dragon, why Jon didn't fear he may have been resurrected? he saw first hand the power of the Night King at Hardhome, and they fought a zombie bear on the way to the lake. Why didn't he go "Oh shit" when the dragon died? too horrible to even contemplate as an option? he tought a dragon too "difficult" to resurrect? he thought it just drowned with no way to get it back? (but then again, no physical contact needed, see Hardhome)
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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5729 on: August 31, 2017, 12:46:41 PM »
Speaking about the ice dragon, why Jon didn't fear he may have been resurrected? he saw first hand the power of the Night King at Hardhome, and they fought a zombie bear on the way to the lake. Why didn't he go "Oh shit" when the dragon died? too horrible to even contemplate as an option? he tought a dragon too "difficult" to resurrect? he thought it just drowned with no way to get it back? (but then again, no physical contact needed, see Hardhome)

When Euron asked if the walkers could swim, who was he talking to? I don't remember if it was Jon or not, but whoever it was said "no". Jon may have just assumed that there was no way the walkers were getting to the dragon at the bottom of the lake.

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5730 on: August 31, 2017, 12:48:39 PM »
Speaking about the ice dragon, why Jon didn't fear he may have been resurrected? he saw first hand the power of the Night King at Hardhome, and they fought a zombie bear on the way to the lake. Why didn't he go "Oh shit" when the dragon died? too horrible to even contemplate as an option? he tought a dragon too "difficult" to resurrect? he thought it just drowned with no way to get it back? (but then again, no physical contact needed, see Hardhome)

There was some speculation that the Night King touched the dragon and therefore it may be more like a white walker dragon and not like a wight dragon.  And I guess since it went into the water, it was believed he wouldn't get resurrected.  But raising the dead, in Hardhome they were already raised once before, maybe it's a bit different in that case.  I'm not really sure, it all could have just been a ploy by the night king as well, make them thing they killed all these wights just to show off his power in the end when he raises them again.  Not really sure, just some thoughts on it.

As for the wall, I always thought there was some magic to it as well as just being a big wall.  Maybe the ice dragon broke that magic as well, I'm not sure we are going to get answers on that from the show.

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5731 on: August 31, 2017, 01:10:16 PM »
Speaking about the ice dragon, why Jon didn't fear he may have been resurrected? he saw first hand the power of the Night King at Hardhome, and they fought a zombie bear on the way to the lake. Why didn't he go "Oh shit" when the dragon died? too horrible to even contemplate as an option? he tought a dragon too "difficult" to resurrect? he thought it just drowned with no way to get it back? (but then again, no physical contact needed, see Hardhome)

There was some speculation that the Night King touched the dragon and therefore it may be more like a white walker dragon and not like a wight dragon.  And I guess since it went into the water, it was believed he wouldn't get resurrected.  But raising the dead, in Hardhome they were already raised once before, maybe it's a bit different in that case.  I'm not really sure, it all could have just been a ploy by the night king as well, make them thing they killed all these wights just to show off his power in the end when he raises them again.  Not really sure, just some thoughts on it.

As for the wall, I always thought there was some magic to it as well as just being a big wall.  Maybe the ice dragon broke that magic as well, I'm not sure we are going to get answers on that from the show.

I can't recall them ever mentioning magic in the show. The only people that ever seem to bring magic up are those who read the books first.

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5732 on: August 31, 2017, 01:14:17 PM »
I believe the children of the forest said there was something with their cave (maybe they didn't use the word magic to describe it) to prevent the wights from entering.  And we even saw one or two explode when trying to run in.  They mention this was broke when the Night King touched Bran.  People like myself assumed that also meant they could pass the wall once Bran passed it, but the show never really brought that back up.

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5733 on: August 31, 2017, 01:27:19 PM »
And we thought that little Bran disobeying his mother about not climbing anymore started the whole chain of events of the series... at this rate, he'll probably have started the entire continent of Westeros all of his own  :lol
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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5734 on: August 31, 2017, 01:27:53 PM »
I believe the children of the forest said there was something with their cave (maybe they didn't use the word magic to describe it) to prevent the wights from entering.  And we even saw one or two explode when trying to run in.  They mention this was broke when the Night King touched Bran.  People like myself assumed that also meant they could pass the wall once Bran passed it, but the show never really brought that back up.

I wonder if that's one of those things where the show slightly changed something from the book but kept it in spirit. Like in The Walking Dead [SPOILER], Rick gets his hand chopped off in the comics, but in the show, Merle is the one to lose it. Same thing with who took an arrow through the back of the head. Maybe in the show they had magic protect the cave rather than the wall.

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5735 on: August 31, 2017, 01:42:44 PM »
I believe the children of the forest said there was something with their cave (maybe they didn't use the word magic to describe it) to prevent the wights from entering.  And we even saw one or two explode when trying to run in.  They mention this was broke when the Night King touched Bran.  People like myself assumed that also meant they could pass the wall once Bran passed it, but the show never really brought that back up.

I wonder if that's one of those things where the show slightly changed something from the book but kept it in spirit. Like in The Walking Dead [SPOILER], Rick gets his hand chopped off in the comics, but in the show, Merle is the one to lose it. Same thing with who took an arrow through the back of the head. Maybe in the show they had magic protect the cave rather than the wall.

Maybe, they have definitely done things like that in the earlier seasons of the show.  But I believe Benjen mentioned he can't cross the wall, which one would assume had to do with the same sort of magic.  But they really didn't come back to this.  Maybe they put all these things in the show so they could come back to it if needed and opted not to and just by having a dragon destroy the wall, they can avoid dealing with other nuances that were hinted in the show and books.  I have a hard time believing most of what happened this season will be in the books, assuming there are more books to come.

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5736 on: August 31, 2017, 02:18:36 PM »
Maybe they put all these things in the show so they could come back to it if needed and opted not to and just by having a dragon destroy the wall, they can avoid dealing with other nuances that were hinted in the show and books.  I have a hard time believing most of what happened this season will be in the books, assuming there are more books to come.

I've read an article about the authors claiming they had known for years how the wall would come down, so unless they're revisioning history since they're the only two knowing it all anyway, this was a long time coming.

And about the books... we'll definitively get The Winds of Winter, if not next year, in 2019. The next one.... I wouldn't really bet on it.
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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5737 on: August 31, 2017, 03:54:35 PM »
In season 5, they almost got through the wall by using a giant to attack the gates/tunnel through the wall.  The Night's Watch barely had enough men to hold them off, lost a great percentage of them, and it took Stannis' army to finish the job.  The Night's Watch has been campaigning for more men for the entire series - it's pretty easy to figure out that the Night King and his army would eventually overrun the wall.  That's why Jon is trying to get everyone on the same page.  He led the Night's Watch, he knows how great the enemy's army is.  He knows that they will eventually breach the wall.  It's just an obstacle, but there are existing ways through it.

Those were living creatures though, a wildling army, not The Others or their Wights.

But I believe Benjen mentioned he can't cross the wall, which one would assume had to do with the same sort of magic.

I'm more than a little sure that Benjen specifically said there were spells in the ice that he wouldn't be able to cross.

And we thought that little Bran disobeying his mother about not climbing anymore started the whole chain of events of the series... at this rate, he'll probably have started the entire continent of Westeros all of his own  :lol

I know, right?  :biggrin:

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5738 on: September 01, 2017, 12:03:41 AM »
Yes, Benjen specifically says that there are "spells carved into it's foundations" and that as long as the wall stands, the "dead can't pass". I just assumed that when the wall fell, the spells were broken. Which also means that they couldn't have overrun one of the tunnels at the castles, unless of course Bran returning to the Seven Kingdoms with the Night King's mark on him allows him to enter.
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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5739 on: September 01, 2017, 12:58:41 AM »
This is some epic stuff:

Jon Snow - The Targaryen Wolf
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