Author Topic: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread  (Read 628473 times)

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Offline cramx3

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5530 on: August 21, 2017, 11:16:07 AM »
BTW, I totally think Cersei is lying about being pregnant in order to keep Jaime in line. We'll see.

Could totally see that. I think she could sense his distrust for her at the moment and is playing him.

Yea I could see that as well.  She had a stillborn child as well, she told this to Catelyn in season 1.  Although some believe she killed it as it was a legit child of Robert Baratheon, but it's possible it wasn't and she isn't capable of even having a child anymore.  There's a lot of potential angles to this, but my gut kind of thinks she's lying about the whole thing or plans to not even have the baby if she is telling the truth.  She can see Jamie's pushing away and the timing was very convenient.

While the dialogue has been great, plot wise, the writing is getting pretty sloppy.

Totally agree.

Offline lordxizor

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5531 on: August 21, 2017, 12:16:15 PM »
If Cersei is pregnant with Jamie's child, could the baby be the brother that kills her? It would technically be her half brother. Kind of an unfitting end if she dies in childbirth though.

I agree with the other sentiments about the latest episode. At first I thought it was awesome, but as I've thought about it more, it was fairly sloppily written.

Offline Adami

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5532 on: August 21, 2017, 01:07:14 PM »
If Cersei is pregnant with Jamie's child, could the baby be the brother that kills her? It would technically be her half brother. Kind of an unfitting end if she dies in childbirth though.

I agree with the other sentiments about the latest episode. At first I thought it was awesome, but as I've thought about it more, it was fairly sloppily written.

What? It wouldn't at all be her brother. It would her son/nephew. Only if her dad was banging her would it be her half brother.
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Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5533 on: August 21, 2017, 01:17:00 PM »
I believe that the Night King had the chains on hand because he knew that he was getting a shot at dragons. Since touching Bran....he has....the vision....or maybe he is Bran or a version of Bran/3ER. This also explains why he was holding the wights back.

As for the Dany finding the men north of the wall so easially, perhaps the Dragons knew Jon since...well...you know. Or perhaps the message she received from the raven included the landmark of the arrow head shaped mountain.

In other words....show is still masterfully written. You just have to keep in mind that a considerable amount of time can pass even during a single episode.

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5534 on: August 21, 2017, 01:26:49 PM »
You just have to keep in mind that a considerable amount of time can pass even during a single episode.

I'm sure that Jon and Co. were on that island for two or three days. There just could have surely been a better way to demonstrate that...I'm not a movie writer so I'm not claiming to know what that way would be but it seems to be the largest moments of disbelief in this series center around the time it takes to go to and fro. 
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Offline lordxizor

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5535 on: August 21, 2017, 01:29:01 PM »
If Cersei is pregnant with Jamie's child, could the baby be the brother that kills her? It would technically be her half brother. Kind of an unfitting end if she dies in childbirth though.

I agree with the other sentiments about the latest episode. At first I thought it was awesome, but as I've thought about it more, it was fairly sloppily written.

What? It wouldn't at all be her brother. It would her son/nephew. Only if her dad was banging her would it be her half brother.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5536 on: August 21, 2017, 01:41:10 PM »
You just have to keep in mind that a considerable amount of time can pass even during a single episode.

I'm sure that Jon and Co. were on that island for two or three days. There just could have surely been a better way to demonstrate that...I'm not a movie writer so I'm not claiming to know what that way would be but it seems to be the largest moments of disbelief in this series center around the time it takes to go to and fro.

I think there was a mention of starving and also the fact the ice froze over again were meant to show time passed.

Offline Chino

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5537 on: August 21, 2017, 01:44:10 PM »
You just have to keep in mind that a considerable amount of time can pass even during a single episode.

I'm sure that Jon and Co. were on that island for two or three days. There just could have surely been a better way to demonstrate that...I'm not a movie writer so I'm not claiming to know what that way would be but it seems to be the largest moments of disbelief in this series center around the time it takes to go to and fro.

I think there was a mention of starving and also the fact the ice froze over again were meant to show time passed.

That and it showed them all waking up from a sleep and a guy that had frozen to death with no one realizing it.

Offline Chino

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5538 on: August 21, 2017, 01:50:08 PM »
Valyrian Steel


Offline ariich

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5539 on: August 21, 2017, 03:32:24 PM »
You just have to keep in mind that a considerable amount of time can pass even during a single episode.

I'm sure that Jon and Co. were on that island for two or three days. There just could have surely been a better way to demonstrate that...I'm not a movie writer so I'm not claiming to know what that way would be but it seems to be the largest moments of disbelief in this series center around the time it takes to go to and fro.

I think there was a mention of starving and also the fact the ice froze over again were meant to show time passed.
Also it turned to night and then day again. If a viewer couldn't work out that a day had passed then they're just not actually paying attention to what they're watching.

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Offline orcus116

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5540 on: August 21, 2017, 05:09:03 PM »
In other words....show is still masterfully written. You just have to keep in mind that a considerable amount of time can pass even during a single episode.

This is my view. I'm along for the ride at this point and won't let the passage of time distort anything even though there are a few things that sort of made me wonder like how the passage to Dragonstone is going to be from Eastwatch because if I remember from the books Sam had a hell of a time going from Eastwatch passed Skagos which is where the ship is heading.

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5541 on: August 21, 2017, 05:34:00 PM »
In other words....show is still masterfully written. You just have to keep in mind that a considerable amount of time can pass even during a single episode.

This is my view. I'm along for the ride at this point and won't let the passage of time distort anything even though there are a few things that sort of made me wonder like how the passage to Dragonstone is going to be from Eastwatch because if I remember from the books Sam had a hell of a time going from Eastwatch passed Skagos which is where the ship is heading.

Or how the journey on the Kings Road from Winterfell to Kings Landing in Season 1 took awhile.  But to me, that was all part of the storytelling and character/world building.  At this point we don't need that, it's all about plot now.  My personal criticisms on the show at this point aren't about how quickly time passes in the show, but moreso on how these plots are being set up.   I do like how they are tying so much back to season 1 and other early episodes, but some of the new plots (Arya v Sansa, the mission beyond the wall) seem rushed and don't make sense to me.

Offline orcus116

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5542 on: August 21, 2017, 06:03:06 PM »
They're giving themselves less episodes to let things stew which presents a bit of a problem. Basically the "previously on..." bits are the only things we get before they dive head on into thicker plot points.

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5543 on: August 21, 2017, 06:23:45 PM »
It's totally possible to love a show and episode and still notice the problems. It doesn't have to be perfect.

The passage of time thing? Sure.

The dead creating and just having giant chains? Come on. Now we're making up theories that the Night King knows all and was planning all of this for weeks because he connected with Bran and somehow knew the dragon would come at that exact moment? That's a HUGE stretch.

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5544 on: August 21, 2017, 07:07:26 PM »
In other words....show is still masterfully written. You just have to keep in mind that a considerable amount of time can pass even during a single episode.

This is my view. I'm along for the ride at this point and won't let the passage of time distort anything even though there are a few things that sort of made me wonder like how the passage to Dragonstone is going to be from Eastwatch because if I remember from the books Sam had a hell of a time going from Eastwatch passed Skagos which is where the ship is heading.

Or how the journey on the Kings Road from Winterfell to Kings Landing in Season 1 took awhile.  But to me, that was all part of the storytelling and character/world building.  At this point we don't need that, it's all about plot now.  My personal criticisms on the show at this point aren't about how quickly time passes in the show, but moreso on how these plots are being set up.   I do like how they are tying so much back to season 1 and other early episodes, but some of the new plots (Arya v Sansa, the mission beyond the wall) seem rushed and don't make sense to me.

This is a good summation of where my feelings lie. Though I thought up to this last episode every other one has been excellent and I've had nothing to complain about. The setups at this point really do need to be almost flawless with the shortened season. I'm not feeling the Arya vs Sansa rivalry, I'll wait for the payoff though. The mission I go back and forth whether it makes sense or not, the little details don't bother me in the least like 'where did the chains come from?' etc.. Not saying that people don't have a right to be put off by it. Perfectly valid. At this point I only want them to move away from the more saved at the last minute stuff.

Hopefully the season finale quells all minor doubt.
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Offline orcus116

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5545 on: August 21, 2017, 07:38:02 PM »
It's totally possible to love a show and episode and still notice the problems. It doesn't have to be perfect.

The passage of time thing? Sure.

The dead creating and just having giant chains? Come on. Now we're making up theories that the Night King knows all and was planning all of this for weeks because he connected with Bran and somehow knew the dragon would come at that exact moment? That's a HUGE stretch.

Maybe having the dredging of the dragon as the last scene in the season (giving an episode to let the Night King get the chains) may work better but that's knowing anything about the next episode.

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5546 on: August 21, 2017, 07:45:44 PM »



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Offline Chino

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5547 on: August 21, 2017, 08:01:37 PM »
It's totally possible to love a show and episode and still notice the problems. It doesn't have to be perfect.

The passage of time thing? Sure.

The dead creating and just having giant chains? Come on. Now we're making up theories that the Night King knows all and was planning all of this for weeks because he connected with Bran and somehow knew the dragon would come at that exact moment? That's a HUGE stretch.

Having those chains is entirely possible. The dead can clearly due stuff underwater (retrieve a dragon). They could have pulled those off shipwrecks or something.

Offline Adami

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5548 on: August 21, 2017, 08:18:24 PM »
I didn't say impossible, I said it was a huge stretch.

We can make up whatever we want. That's a sign of not great writing, when the fans have to make up justifications.

And GoT used to be a show about shades of grey, complicated plots, complex characters, subtext, and very creative story lines.

While I'm still enjoying the show, it's become almost entirely black and white, good vs. evil, obvious plots, still amazing characters, very little subtext and predictable story lines.

Like I said, I'm still really enjoying the show, so I dunno why people are getting so defensive here, but when it becomes "Who cares about logic DID YOU SEE THE DRAGONS??" then it's a downgrade to me. Maybe it's just me.
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Offline soupytwist

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5549 on: August 22, 2017, 01:47:17 AM »
It's odd this rushed pacing is entirely self inflicted.   The two weakest seasons of GoT for me were 2 & 5 - both due to pacing issues.  Season 2 felt rushed trying to cram to much material in the season, while Season 5 felt the opposite, it dragged.  But they were products of the 10 Season episodes.  This season is feeling rushed though is unnecessary, the writers chose to shorten this Season, but now with one episode left I can't be the only one thinking the material/story we've seen over the first 6 episodes would have felt better paced with 1 or 2 more episodes to flesh out the character moments.

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5550 on: August 22, 2017, 02:03:03 AM »
After first viewing, my first thoughts was that there was no other episode that I've had this many issues with.

But I'm happy to say that after a second viewing with some friends, it was a lot better. The blatant disregard of distance between Eastwatch and Dragonstone is clearly an issue with this episode. Time jumps haven't bothered me before on this show, not ever, but the problem here was that they clearly told the story as if there wasn't a time jump. Given what they actually showed us, they were on the rock for one evening, one night, and then some time into the next day. At which point weeks of travel was made. It just doesn't make sense and unfortunately there is no way around that.

But on my second viewing I was able just accept it and really enjoy the episode a lot more, and appreciate the huge stuff we got here.

A problem I still have though is how weak they portray the wights to be here. They're supposed to be an absolute nightmare of an enemy, there's nothing you can do to stop them because weapons have zero effect since they're already dead, feel no pain and feel no fear. Only fire stops them. But here, Jon and the others managed to fend off thousands of the dead for far longer than they should have. It made sense in Hardhome, because the living had a lot more fighting for them and the wights only came in a few at a time. The moment the bulk of the army breached those walls there was no other option but to get the fuck out of there. So I didn't like that this episode made the wights less scary than before.

Also, never been a fan of the 'kill the source and the army dies' thing. I usually call it Phantom-Menacing. So I'm not sure I like that they're setting that up.

As for the Night King, I do believe he has the sight, or at least some version of it. He was able to see and even touch Bran inside his vision, and just his gaze threw Bran out of the ravens he sent a few episodes ago. I also like the idea that he set a trap for the dragons, and it would have been really cool to see that addressed. Like Jon and the others realizing that they're delaying the attack for some reason, and through editing reveal that he's waiting for the dragons. Could have been awesome, but unfortunately that was never even hinted at, so there's really no credability to that theory, other than the Night King and the other White Walkers really not looking surprised at all that three dragons suddenly shows up.

Overall, after a second viewing, my thoughts are that this is not a bad episode, just a bit of a disappointing one. Which is an important difference. Very enjoyable, but not what it could have been.

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5551 on: August 22, 2017, 07:49:54 AM »
I've never had an issue with the time jumps etc. and didn't in this episode. I also don't think the show feels rushed at all - I'm glad it's moving at pace because season 5 was such a drag and the low point of the show.

But it was definitely a mixed episode. There were some outstanding moments, but being rescued in the nick of time felt too cliché for this show, and then it happened again with Benjen. And then for no apparent reason, Benjen stayed behind to get killed when there was plenty of space for both of them on the horse. Made no sense whatsoever.

I also find it slightly odd that some people find Viserion's death emotional, "heartbreaking", etc. I just don't find I have any emotional investment in the dragons whatsoever.

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5552 on: August 22, 2017, 08:17:31 AM »
Brianne being sent to the meeting in Kings Landing IMO only enforces my belief that Jaimie is going to kill Cersi at this meeting when she try's to kill everyone there. Her presence is going to help remind or 'ground' him and break the spell that he seems to be under when around Cersi...help make him realize how 'evil' she truly is. Not that Jaimie is innocent...but his character has had more of a redemptive story and killing Cersi would be the cherry on top of that story.

I think he will be swayed and convinced by Jon and Dany....want to put aside the war for the Kingdom and focus on the Knight King and try to convince Cersi of that and that's when she'll try to enact whatever evil plan she has.

Odds are the Hound will be around and you know the Mountain will be there. Clegane Bowl anyone?

Bold Prediction: Jaimie is bending a knee to Dany at the end of the episode

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5553 on: August 22, 2017, 12:27:08 PM »
Brianne being sent to the meeting in Kings Landing IMO only enforces my belief that Jaimie is going to kill Cersi at this meeting when she try's to kill everyone there. Her presence is going to help remind or 'ground' him and break the spell that he seems to be under when around Cersi...help make him realize how 'evil' she truly is. Not that Jaimie is innocent...but his character has had more of a redemptive story and killing Cersi would be the cherry on top of that story.

I think he will be swayed and convinced by Jon and Dany....want to put aside the war for the Kingdom and focus on the Knight King and try to convince Cersi of that and that's when she'll try to enact whatever evil plan she has.

Odds are the Hound will be around and you know the Mountain will be there. Clegane Bowl anyone?

Bold Prediction: Jaimie is bending a knee to Dany at the end of the episode

I can see that happening. I don't see Cersei surviving the episode. The question is how many hero's will she take out before she dies. I also think that Littlefinger will be dead as well.

Also, the episode is call the "The Dragon and the Wolf" and is just shy of 80 minutes. Can't wait!

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5554 on: August 22, 2017, 12:29:19 PM »
Interesting. I never thought for a second about Cersei not making it to the next season.

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5555 on: August 22, 2017, 01:13:05 PM »
Interesting. I never thought for a second about Cersei not making it to the next season.

It just 'feels' like to me they've spent all season really propping her up in this position of power and control even after Dany's Dragonfire victory. She's confident and focuses and you can tell she's as sinister as ever. She's warned Jaimie not to betray her and her ruthlessness has only been tamed on occasion by Jaimie.

It's prime conditions for her to be taken out GOT style....meaning out of nowhere. Most likely I'm completely off base but I can't shake the feeling that all the foreshadowing and this whole season has been leading to a 'finality' of sorts as far as the war between Dany and Cersi is concerned and it feels like it's all been pointing to Cersi finally getting hers.



OR.....with Jon being a Targaryan and Drogon 'knowing' this.....maybe Dany is the one who gets killed (the emphasis from the last episode of her not wanting to name her successor until AFTER she becomes Queen being a foreboding foreshadow) and Jon inherits the Dragons/Dothraki etc??
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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5556 on: August 22, 2017, 01:17:31 PM »
I'm guessing the title referes directly to Raegar and Lyanna so Jon's parentage will be revealed this episode.

As for Cersei, someone(s) is not leaving that meeting alive. My bet would be on Cersei, the mountain, and the rest of her regime our ousted. With only 6 episodes left (not counting the finale) it just doesn't make a lot of sense to have the conflict for the throne continue until next season.

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5557 on: August 22, 2017, 02:12:38 PM »
With only 6 episodes left (not counting the finale) it just doesn't make a lot of sense to have the conflict for the throne continue until next season.

I had thought this as well. I imagined that this season would settle the quest for the Iron Throne with next season settling the 'real' war VS the Night King. Not that it would be surprising for them to leave it cliffhanger style to be revealing in Ep. 1 of the last season.....but it'd be nice to get a resolution with this last episode and not have to wait until 2019 to find out.
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Offline lordxizor

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5558 on: August 22, 2017, 02:25:44 PM »
I kinda hope that Jamie doesn't kill Cersei and that Jon and Dany don't get together. I want something unexpected to happen. Not the very thing that all fans have been speculating about. I'd even be up for Jon not being a Targaryan after all. People assume the show has revealed he is, but they've never quite come out and said it, leaving it open for a huge surprise. How about Cersei killing both her brothers so that neither of them can kill her? That would be unexpected (or would have been until right now!).

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5559 on: August 22, 2017, 02:33:00 PM »
I kinda hope that Jamie doesn't kill Cersei and that Jon and Dany don't get together. I want something unexpected to happen. Not the very thing that all fans have been speculating about. I'd even be up for Jon not being a Targaryan after all. People assume the show has revealed he is, but they've never quite come out and said it, leaving it open for a huge surprise. How about Cersei killing both her brothers so that neither of them can kill her? That would be unexpected (or would have been until right now!).

would love something unexpected to happen. I've said it a couple times that it feels like this far into the narrative that the 'unexpected' aspect of the show has been whittled down due to how far along we are. There aren't many options to each story line....there are only two or three viable scenarios that can be taken that would fit the narrative they've built. Not that it's a Bad thing....because it isn't as long as the story is consistent and told well.....but the unexpected nature of GOT that wow'd us in the early seasons has certainly been tamed IMO.
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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5560 on: August 22, 2017, 03:21:32 PM »
I'm down for something unexpected, but I also hope that something completely depressing doesn't happen. If the show ends with Supreme Leader Cersei and Danny/Jon being killed in a dragon-riding accident, I'll be a sad panda. :sadpanda:
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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5561 on: August 22, 2017, 03:25:23 PM »
Unexpected is good when it's the result is extremely clever writing and ends up making sense. Unexpected for the sake of being unexpected is just lazy.

As Gary pointed out, there's not a ton more unexpected things left that could make sense. Between fan theories and everything we've been building up to, there's only so many logical outcomes. Which is fine.
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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5562 on: August 22, 2017, 04:53:21 PM »
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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5563 on: August 22, 2017, 09:00:05 PM »
Also, does the Night King really just have those giant huge and heavy chains with him at all times just in case he needs to pull a dragon out of the water?


While the dialogue has been great, plot wise, the writing is getting pretty sloppy.

As soon as the episode ended all I could think was, so they just had these chains lying around, someone had them in their backpack?! Where were they before the Dragon's arrived?
Why did Dany bring all 3, obviously now we know so one could be killed.
Where has the other ran off to, you could just imagine what he was thinking....  (As the ship was at sea, there was only one with her wasn't there?)

Unfortunately I had seen an interview with Jamie, where he gave away no spoilers, but there was a poster behind him and it appeared to show a Dragon on top of an ice wall, that was days before the episode aired, so you almost have to stay away from everything to avoid even hints of what may happen.

Plot wise it is getting very sloppy, the writer's obviously have where they want to be by the end, and just throw in whatever they can to get it there.

Arya with Sansa, why leave the faces in the open, what if Sansa had thrown them in the fire, even after Arya left the room, and Littlefinger could he please be dead already, somebody, anybody.

Can't wait for next week.... Then what, another year?!   

Offline Progmetty

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Re: Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread
« Reply #5564 on: August 22, 2017, 09:12:30 PM »
Some people noticed this:



It's not shopped, I went back to episode and the eyes do change when Jon comes out of the water.
Then a few hours ago IGN posted an interview with the director of the episode stating the eyes weren't meant to do anything and he has no idea what the fans are talking about.
So I did some digging, time stamp 9:52 in season 6 ep2, Jon is dead on the table and Longclaw is leaning on the wall, white eyes, like it was before Jon came out of the lake. Then end of season 6 ep3, Jon is alive and executing the mutineers, I see a glimpse of Longclaw when Jon and I can see the little black gems which shows up after Jon comes out of the lake.
Don't know what it means but it's interesting.
I wouldn't want somebody with 18 kids to mow my damn lawn, based on a longstanding bias I have against crazy fucks.