Sopranos Ending

[ReaPsTA]

Obvious Spoiler Tag for the two or three of you who don't know what happens.







I've seen one Sopranos scene ever, and that's the ending.  This sounds ridiculous because it probably is.  But since I know what happens anyway, I figured why not watch it since I'm not sure when and if I'll sit down with the whole series.  And then I realized an interesting opportunity was upon me.  This scene doesn't mean anything to me because I can't put it in the context of the show.  But what I can do is look at the language of the scene purely for what it is and try to guess what it's leading up to when the blackness hits.  Without having seen any of the rest of the show, my ability to see things as they are is not tainted.

 - Tony looking at the door and us seeing it every time is him obviously being suspicious.  And we're supposed to be getting into that head space.  When he throws Don't Step Believing on the jukebox, it's clearly him reflecting on his mental state a bit.  There's a sadness in his eyes.

 - The wife comes in.  Their conversation is that of a couple who's known each other for a long time but their relationship has very much been hollowed out.  Tony keeps watching the door.  Tony says someone's going to testify against him.  He doesn't care.  Even the way he throws down the menu is interesting.  It's sorta procedural but there's a weird comfort in it.  Also, holy crap it's Edie Falco in another show where she's unrecognizable.  She blends in creepily well.  She mentions Meadow's birth control.  She has that the same resigned look about that as the guy testifying.  She's just taking it all in stride.

 - When you see Vito Corleone in The Godfather, you instantly recognize this is a man of gravitas and authority.  Tony Soprano here gives off zero mob boss vibe.  Either his hustle is gone or he's showing none of it here.

 - The guy at the counter.  We'll get back to him.

 - I don't understand the purpose of Meadow being unable to park the car.  It's kinda suspenseful.  It times well into the cut to black.  But is there symbolic meaning?  I just want to get back to the restaurant.

 - I wonder what the purpose of the happy young couple is.  Contrast with Tony's situation?  Showing he's even suspicious of them?

 - The suspicious guy heads to the bathroom.  AJ tells his dad to remember the good times.  I feel like where I'm going with this is kinda obvious.

 - The suspicious guy killed Tony.  The language of the scene and its construction so obviously implies it.  Tony's checked out.  He's trying to remind himself to live with the song but it's not really working.  He finally looks pepped up again with the idea of remembering the good times, and then Meadow's coming, but of course that's the obvious writer move.  Before you do something horrible to a character add to the tragedy of it one last time.  There's obviously a lot of deep wounds with him and his family, but they don't matter to him.  He's just trying to enjoy a moment.  Every character moment is a set up to the idea of Tony dying.  The cut to black happens because, well, he's dead and isn't around to see or do anything.  Also, we see him looking at the door Meadow comes in but not the bathroom door.  If the suspicious guy exited the Bathroom door right then he could have done it.  Tony looked the wrong place once and got popped.

Of course, having not seen literally any of the rest of the show, I'm pretty sure I'm missing a lot of layers.  I just don't see what else the point of the scene could have been except to be Tony's last moments.

[KevShmev]

You are missing a ton of layers, but yep, I do think that we are led to believe that Tony died.  There are dozens of clues and whatnot littered throughout Season 6 that would indicate that that is the case.

[ReaPsTA]

One big thing I missed and feel stupid about - Tony walks into the bar wearing a black leather jacket.  He scopes the place out.  Cut back to his face looking at the bar.  Cut to his scoping POV - but now he's in the seat.  Then cut to the more local shot of Tony sitting down.  I don't know what to make of this.

[El Barto]

First off, the Phil Leotardo hit was probably the single best whacking I've ever seen.  Violent and hysterical.  Hell yeah.

That's a pretty interesting perspective.  You've hit on some things that were referred to in earlier episodes.  There was at least one conversation (I think two) where they discussed that in their world you'd never see the hit coming.  Events are already happening before you realize they've started.  Everything's groovy and then lights out.  Also, they all had a huge fondness for The Godfather movies, so borrowing elements from them would be natural.  The guy emerging from the bathroom to pop somebody or the possibility that Meadow gets killed.

The problem with the Tony get's popped theory is that there wasn't really any reason for it.  The war was over.  He had a tacit approval for whacking Leotardo.  Peace was more favored than vengeance at that point.  If he got popped it might just as likely have been a random diner robbery than a mob hit.  Personally, I always thought the sadness was more of a malaise than anything else.  Another significant chapter had transpired, and the outlook is that all he'll ever have is more of the same.  He and Carmella were pretty much stuck with each other.  AJ was a fuck up.  Meadow was the happy wanderer.  He's going to spend the rest of his life having people killed and beaten to provide for them.  It was reflections on a hollow victory, me thinks.

[GuineaPig]

I agree with ElBarto.

[NecessaryPain]

Good insight.

But nothing is 'obvious' with the ending. There are hints, but the hints are so small it's anything but clear.

Personally I don't think it matters whether he died or not. The show just ended with the obvious intention of letting the viewer decide the outcome. No one is right or wrong in this case.

I think the ending was pretty cool, but I can't say i'm a huge fan. I would have much preferred something ridiculous to happen. What I loved about The Sopranos was its wild writing.

I'll do some examples later.

[El Barto]

Personally I don't think it matters whether he died or not. The show just ended with the obvious intention of letting the viewer decide the outcome. No one is right or wrong in this case.

This is what I'd most like to find out.  I really don't care if he intended the ending to be intentionally ambiguous or if there is a definite outcome that we're supposed to figure out.  I just want to know which of the two it is.  I don't like trying to figure out the solution to a problem that might not even exist. 

[tjanuranus]

Meadow was really nervous about being pregnant. She was probably going to tell them at dinner and was flustered about it that's what she has freaking out while parking the car. Remember she told her mom she had to go to the gynocologist to switch pills? Of course she would say that. Seems to be me that she got the news she was pregnant. Would explain the car thing. Its the only reason i can think why that line about her going to the gynocologist is in there.

And i don't get that tony died at all. If you look at his face at the end, which i did i paused it it's not a look of shock or fear. It's a blank look. I think the idea is that he is now extremely paranoid and that his existence will always be one of misery. Constantly worried about getting popped or going to jail. I think it was a GREAT way to end it because in some ways his death would be a release, by him living his has to live this life which he is clearly miserable in. That's pretty much the theme of the show to me so it holds true with the ending.

[KevShmev]

Well, since the kill shot would have been one Tony never saw coming, why would he have looked shocked or fearful? 

But I agree that, regardless of what you think really happened, the final scene showed viewers what it is like to be Tony Soprano.

Besides, even if he wasn't killed, Carlo had flipped, and had more than enough to put Tony in jail for life, so Tony's life as we saw it was all over, one way or another. 

[tjanuranus]

Well, since the kill shot would have been one Tony never saw coming, why would he have looked shocked or fearful? 

But I agree that, regardless of what you think really happened, the final scene showed viewers what it is like to be Tony Soprano.

Besides, even if he wasn't killed, Carlo had flipped, and had more than enough to put Tony in jail for life, so Tony's life as we saw it was all over, one way or another. 

when he looked into the camera i thought he would be looking at the person about to kill him. and based on his look it didn't seem like he was worried.

[EPICVIEW]

It was a truly great show..I enjoyed it....I could go on and on, to me I loved the NJ setting and seeing so much that I knew. a few times it was filmed in buildings I knew and friends own. I miss that it had to come to an end.

The funny thing is on Sunday Nights, when I saw the opening of the show Id say " I will be there tomorrow" as far as where they show at during the opening credits.

I think everyone saw what they wanted to see in that show..and thats what made it great.

[KevShmev]

No, he was looking up at the door.  In that scene, every single time someone comes in the door, Tony looks up to see who it is.  Every single time.  

That is why the parallels between Tony and Phil throughout all of Season 6 are impossible to ignore.  Phil being killed as he is looking at his wife and with two of his other family members (albeit two small children) watching would be the same thing as Tony being killed while looking up at Meadow and with AJ and Carmela watching.  There are many other parallels.

[Chino]

I was always under the impression that after the screen went black, Tony walked into the bathroom and got a blowjob from the suspicious guy that walked in before in.

[tjanuranus]

No, he was looking up at the door.  In that scene, every single time someone comes in the door, Tony looks up to see who it is.  Every single time.  

That is why the parallels between Tony and Phil throughout all of Season 6 are impossible to ignore.  Phil being killed as he is looking at his wife and with two of his other family members (albeit two small children) watching would be the same thing as Tony being killed while looking up at Meadow and with AJ and Carmela watching.  There are many other parallels.

oh i see makes sense now. But i see no evidence that he was actually killed. I still think it's just showing him living in misery.

[KevShmev]

It is also worth pointing out that David Chase wanted the screen to stay black for the entire time the credits would have ran, but HBO wouldn't allow it, so he did the 8 or 9 second black screen and then the music-less credits.

tjanuranus, of course there is no rock solid evidence, but there is more than enough circumstantial evidence for someone to conclude that the ending meant that he died. 

[NecessaryPain]

Yeah, I love the bit where Phil's head gets crushed under the car and the 2 babies are on the back-seat riding over the bump.

Pure genius.

[tjanuranus]

It is also worth pointing out that David Chase wanted the screen to stay black for the entire time the credits would have ran, but HBO wouldn't allow it, so he did the 8 or 9 second black screen and then the music-less credits.

tjanuranus, of course there is no rock solid evidence, but there is more than enough circumstantial evidence for someone to conclude that the ending meant that he died. 

well you could take it that way. Or you could not lol. I choose not but if someone thinks he died then that's cool.

[ReaPsTA]

https://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/the-sopranos-definitive-explanation-of-the-end/

This is the big dissertation someone wrote on the ending.  IMO, this is the money quote:

The “Tony’s paranoid” theory is a fallacy, it is actually the viewer who is paranoid because of all third person shots of the other patrons and MOG staring at Tony (not to mention that this is the final scene ever, but Tony doesn’t know that).

Also, the guy quotes numerous interviews where Chase talks about how the nature of death is woven into the show.  You might say "Chase isn't explaining it because it's not the only answer."  Well, no.  It's like when someone tells a joke.  You either get it or you don't.  Explaining the joke makes it far less funny.  I'm not saying the ending is a joke (it's a very serious piece of material), but like Chase said, if you explain it the effect is diminished.  The whole point is that you're supposed to get the punchline (Tony dying) and thus making the way the scene doesn't just directly say it more powerful.

Something else the guy really emphasizes is how much Tony looks at the menu.  From a character perspective, it's another way he's withdrawing from the moment, tying into the overall arc of the scene of Tony checking out.

[tjanuranus]

i read over most of that and i have to say... i'm rethinking my theory now! Wow that's some crazy insight and analysis.

[tjanuranus]

just watched the last 10 minutes again. Honestly best thing by far i've ever seen on TV. How people don't see that i don't know. How can one show be so emotional, thrilling, funny, well made at the same time. I watched goodfellas a few months ago and i was shocked at how much i didn't like it as much as i used to. I think it's because i've seen the sopranos.

[Nick]

Fun Fact: The final scene was filmed at the restaurant which Bill's (Axemans) dad owns in Bloomfield, NJ.

[KevShmev]

Ah, that's who it is.  I remembered that someone on here's dad owned that place, but couldn't remember who.

Anyway, other fun facts about the final season of the show and how it could be tied to Tony potentially dying at the end:

-The first episode of Season 6A is called "Member's Only."  In that episode, Eugene, who was wearing a Member's Only jacket, as pointed out by Vito, killed a guy by the name of Teddy Spirodakis up in Boston at a diner.  Who else do we know that has the initials of T.S.?  Oh, and the guy in the final scene who kept looking at Tony and eventually went to the men's room is credited in the final credits as "Man in Member's Only Jacket."

-In "Stage 5," the second episode of 6B, Silvio witnesses two NY guys killing Gerry Torciano.  When relaying the story later to the guys, he said, "Funny thing is, I didn't even know what was happening until it was over."  And when the scene is shown to us, the viewers, the volume went silent for several seconds, even as Sil kept talking.

-The obvious scene between Bobby and Tony in "Soprano Home Movies" where they discuss how getting whacked is always possible for them, and Bobby remarks, "You probably don't even hear it when it happens."  Tony recalls this moment in a flashback at the end of "The Blue Comet," the second to last episode.

-David Chase intentionally switched the men and women's room at the diner so someone coming out of the men's room would be not be seen by Tony if he was looking straight ahead.  Chase even at one point in an interview vaguely referred to scenes in "Stage 5" and "Soprano Home Movies" as being important to understanding the ending (see: the scenes in my two points prior to this one).

-The parallels between Tony and Phil throughout Season 6, such as both trying to change their path and the way they behaved following a major health threat (Phil's heart attack, and Tony after being shot); they both ultimately failed.  And remember the similarity between the way Phil was killed and the way Tony was killed (if Tony was in fact killed).
 

[tjanuranus]

yeah i've watch the ending multiple times today. I'm now convinced he was killed. See this forum does work! lol

[axeman90210]

https://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/the-sopranos-definitive-explanation-of-the-end/

Damnit, beat me to the punch. Some form of that has been up since the summer the finale first aired and it's definitely convinced me that Tony's dead.

Fun Fact: The final scene was filmed at the restaurant which Bill's (Axemans) dad owns in Bloomfield, NJ.

Yeah man, it's funny, we still get a Sopranos bus tour full of people coming through every weekend and it's crazy how many of them want to talk about the ending and whatnot.

[tjanuranus]

https://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/the-sopranos-definitive-explanation-of-the-end/

Damnit, beat me to the punch. Some form of that has been up since the summer the finale first aired and it's definitely convinced me that Tony's dead.

Fun Fact: The final scene was filmed at the restaurant which Bill's (Axemans) dad owns in Bloomfield, NJ.

Yeah man, it's funny, we still get a Sopranos bus tour full of people coming through every weekend and it's crazy how many of them want to talk about the ending and whatnot.

wow that's awesome that your dad owns that place! I am thinking about taking my wife there on saturday for a little day trip and surprise. We both really love the sopranos. She will be really surprised. It's about an hour away from where i live in central nj

[axeman90210]

Ah, normally I'd be there on a Saturday but I'll be out of town this weekend. I'd like to think it'll be worth the trip, moreso for the awesome ice cream than anything else Just try not to be there around 4:30, as that's when the tour  bus comes in every week, and having 40 people parade through the store can be a bit unfortunate. It was definitely a very cool experience though, I was lucky enough to be on set and serve as an extra (you can't see me, but my dad and grandmother both get a little bit of screen time), and it was very cool just to see the process and how much work went into five minutes. It also served as my reason to start watching the show, and I went through all six seasons on DVD between the filming in March and the finale in June.

[tjanuranus]

so what did you think of the show?

[ReaPsTA]

It is also worth pointing out that David Chase wanted the screen to stay black for the entire time the credits would have ran, but HBO wouldn't allow it, so he did the 8 or 9 second black screen and then the music-less credits.

I actually really like that HBO overruled him.  Whenever TV shows do the somber credit sequence at the end of a well-done episode, it really sells the impact of what just happened.

[KevShmev]

It is also worth pointing out that David Chase wanted the screen to stay black for the entire time the credits would have ran, but HBO wouldn't allow it, so he did the 8 or 9 second black screen and then the music-less credits.

I actually really like that HBO overruled him.  Whenever TV shows do the somber credit sequence at the end of a well-done episode, it really sells the impact of what just happened.

Agreed.  I love it, too.  For those who remember All In The Family, the episodes always ended with a brief credit sequence while the live studio audience applauded, and then they came back after commercials and did the final credits with the music.  Well, there is an episode called "Archie Is Branded," that has a very dramatic and unexpected finish, and when it goes to the brief credit sequence, instead of the usual applause, there is nothing but dead silence.  Absolutely perfect.

And I just looked, the whole episode is on youtube, if anyone is interested in watching it.  It is one of many All In The Family episodes that is a perfect blend of comedy and drama.

[NecessaryPain]

Interesting how many people talk about the ending of this great show, when I found it one of the weakest scenes in the whole series.

People spend too much time looking for clues and hints when in actual fact, it's just another day in the life of Tony Soprano.

The show ends by showing the audience exactly what it's like to be a mobster - always looking over your shoulder, always questioning a certain look or a certain impulse. If he did or didn't die in the diner - he was nearing his end. Whether his end was a bullet through the brain or a lifetime in prison, ultimately all he had left was these final moments of happiness with his family.

Call me old fasioned but as much as I love the writing in this show, I would have much preferred a powerful ending through violence or despair. I didn't find the ending poweful at all. It was just okay.

Each to their own. I have no complaints. I'd just rather talk about the many other great scenes this show had to offer. I never look back on the series and question the ending. It's like looking for something that isn't there.


Edit - Actually, it kind of annoys me people spend this much time talking about the ending. It's always the bulk of the conversation on the internet. I find it crazy when everything that came before was what this show was about. Maybe i'm missing something, or looking in the wrong places, but I honestly believe the show just ends. Almost randomly. And it's not the first time an episode has ended this way.

[SPNKr]

I agree that Tony obviously gets killed. The show ends after Tony loses consciousness by being shot in the back/side of the head. Never saw or heard it coming. Makes sense this way.

[NecessaryPain]

I agree that Tony obviously gets killed.

There's nothing obvious about the ending of The Sopranos.

I could say he obviously doesn't get killed. Which one of us is right?

Correct answer - neither.

[toky_world]

The point of the scene was to prove that Tony will always watch his back for the rest of his life, which its awful to live with a certain (justified) degree of paranoia. But there is no motive on his hit.

No Ralphies on his crew.
No NYC mob family after him.

What would've followed is that he was going to get indicted since he got (I think it was Carlo's recordings against him, a mole since Pussy was killed), plus the FBI agent tipped him on where Phil was as a set up to convict him for the murder of Phil. And thus begin the trial for his life (I think there's no death penalty, but life in prison.)

Both things could get a go in court or maybe it wouldn't. It all depends on the viewers mind.

But no. Tony wasn't killed at the family dinner.

[ehra]

He doesn't exactly seem too "paranoid" at the end. He spends a good amount of time staring down at his menu, and a good point brought up in the blog posted earlier is that he sat right in the middle of the room. There were even two times where the door opened and he didn't look up (once when the couple was laughing and again when the black guys walked in).

[KevShmev]

  (I think it was Carlo's recordings against him, a mole since Pussy was killed)

Huh?  There is nothing to indicate that Carlo was on the take the whole time since Pussy was killed.  Hell, Carlo didn't even appear until the beginning of Season 4, and Pussy was killed at the end of 2!  We have no idea when Carlo flipped, but the best bet is that his kid getting busted for drugs (which was alluded to in the final ep) is all the feds needed to get him to flip at that moment.