Author Topic: The official Redemption thread  (Read 39551 times)

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Offline Zook

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #175 on: October 12, 2011, 04:10:57 PM »
No Homers allowed.

Offline wolfking

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #176 on: October 12, 2011, 10:05:33 PM »

Offline pogoowner

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #177 on: October 12, 2011, 11:34:27 PM »
I'm still debating whether I should be a dick and accept Nick's challenge to point out the similarities from past albums...

I know he'd be cool about it though. If I were to do the same thing with say, Iced Earth, Schaffer would probably e-mail my job...

Of course, that's only if Schaffer gave a damn about the internets.
I noticed some as well, though I haven't looked into it enough to know how direct the similarities actually are.

I also agree with some of the earlier statements that the second half of the album is stronger than the first.

Offline Vlasto

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #178 on: October 13, 2011, 12:49:17 AM »
@nvandyk

Hi Nick, great to see you here...

TMC is very solid powerful album, with full of strong awesome moments...thank you.

My favorite song is LET IT RAIN...

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #179 on: October 13, 2011, 05:01:00 AM »
Alright, I'm having to retract some of my earlier comments after some more spins. It IS a great album, musically, (but not as great as some of the earlier ones) and the lyrics are great as well. So far, Stronger than Death is my favourite cut, together with Dreams from the pit.

The coverversions are done very good as well. Especially like the Tori Amos one.  :metal
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #180 on: October 13, 2011, 08:57:58 AM »
Still taking this in after one listen yesterday on a work-related road trip, but so far, I really like it.  As usual, the music is very dense, so it is difficult for me to differentiate between the songs after only one listen.  I did, however, notice the reprises in Departure of the Pale Horse.  Well done.

The covers disk is very cool.  And let me take just a moment to say:  "Thank you very much!"  Seriously.  A covers disk with an album that only raises the price of the whole package by $2-3 or so is a VERY welcome bit of bonus material that is well worth the bit of added expense for the special edition.  I wish other bands would take note of this.  Half a dozen or so covers on a bonus disk is a GREAT thing.  A separate covers CD release and resulting tour (Def Leppard, Stryper, Queensryche, Tesla--well, okay, strike that last one.  That one actually was pretty good) is generally not.  Redemption and bands like DT get it.  Thanks.

And speaking of which...WHO IS ANNA KRISTINA??  She is amazing on that Tori Amos song.  I definitely plan on checking out some of her music.  Might even make it to one of her shows, since it appears from her website she regularly plays at a club in N.Cal.  Nick, where did you find her?
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Offline Mebert78

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #181 on: October 13, 2011, 09:46:39 AM »
A covers disk with an album that only raises the price of the whole package by $2-3 or so is a VERY welcome bit of bonus material that is well worth the bit of added expense for the special edition.  I wish other bands would take note of this.  Half a dozen or so covers on a bonus disk is a GREAT thing.  A separate covers CD release and resulting tour (Def Leppard, Stryper, Queensryche, Tesla--well, okay, strike that last one.  That one actually was pretty good) is generally not.  Redemption and bands like DT get it.  Thanks.

This is so true.  I love the option of being able to buy a bonus CD, and I agree that it's much better than releasing a separate album of cover songs.  I haven't sunk my teeth into disc two yet, but I'm looking forward to it.
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Offline pogoowner

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #182 on: October 13, 2011, 12:52:32 PM »
The covers disk is very cool.  And let me take just a moment to say:  "Thank you very much!"  Seriously.  A covers disk with an album that only raises the price of the whole package by $2-3 or so is a VERY welcome bit of bonus material that is well worth the bit of added expense for the special edition.  I wish other bands would take note of this.  Half a dozen or so covers on a bonus disk is a GREAT thing.  A separate covers CD release and resulting tour (Def Leppard, Stryper, Queensryche, Tesla--well, okay, strike that last one.  That one actually was pretty good) is generally not.  Redemption and bands like DT get it.  Thanks.

And speaking of which...WHO IS ANNA KRISTINA??  She is amazing on that Tori Amos song.  I definitely plan on checking out some of her music.  Might even make it to one of her shows, since it appears from her website she regularly plays at a club in N.Cal.  Nick, where did you find her?
I fully agree with all of this. And Anna Kristina sounded DAMN good on that cover.

Offline Beowulf

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #183 on: October 13, 2011, 12:53:40 PM »
I got mine a week ago, so last Thursday.  I can't seem to get the CD out of my car!  If I have the radio on, my 12-year old son asks where the new Redemption is.  I have listened countless times now, and I am still hard-pressed to name one song as my favorite.

DALLAS is ready to host!  The tour needs to come here!  Or at least someone (through the band, even) should record (audio and/or video) the Saturday show.  Then they could post it as a special through their website or something.  This could help sate those of us who won't get the opportunity to see the band live.  Unfortunately, I have a demanding job that doesn't allow me to travel long distances for other shows.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #184 on: October 14, 2011, 09:07:52 AM »
Still getting used to all the songs, so I can't really post a "review" of the album, other than to say I am liking it a lot.  But just wanted to pop back in the thread to say that, like many songs before it, Stronger Than Death proves once again that even the simplest riffs can be the most headbanging metaltastic things in the world when done right with a rythm section doing its job underneath.  :2metal:
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Offline YtseBitsySpider

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #185 on: October 14, 2011, 09:33:24 AM »
As I mentioned, for me, those last two carry the disc.
The rest of the disc is about 6.5--7/10 the last to songs are 11's.

great stuff
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #186 on: October 14, 2011, 09:40:24 AM »
Those two jumped out at me early as well.  But the first two tracks are pretty tasty as well.  While the overall sound of Path Of The Whirdwind doesn't feel like an opening track to me, it conveys a sudden, chaotic sense of feeling lost in a surreal situation, which is appropriate in the context of the album's theme.  And I love the Ellefson-like bass line in the opening of Blink Of An Eye, and how that them carries through in the guitar riffage and vocal melody throughout that song.
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Offline YtseBitsySpider

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #187 on: October 14, 2011, 09:49:50 AM »
There are a lot recycled tones and stuff on the disc though...not sure how Nick can say otherwise. I don't have a problem with it, many bands are like that..it's "their sound" but...its there for sure.
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Offline Mebert78

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #188 on: October 14, 2011, 09:54:12 AM »
My fav track is still "Perfect."  The vocal melody is just addicting.
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Offline nvandyk

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #189 on: October 14, 2011, 11:36:11 AM »
A couple of things.

Re: Anna Kristina, she and I went to high school together!   This is not her usual style at all but I knew she had it in her.   She plays in a number of contexts in the San Francisco area with some regularity.  She used to be in Zeperella, an all-female Led Zep tribute band, but she stopped doing that recently (again, pretty far afield from the stuff she normally likes to do).

http://www.annakristina.com/

Re: recycled riffs, it's not so much that I'm challenging those who claim they are here but I'm genuinely interested to know where you are hearing them since I do try not to repeat myself (unless it's intentional, as for example the opening riff on track 1 which appears in the second verse of No Tickets and also in Let it Rain).


Offline YtseBitsySpider

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #190 on: October 14, 2011, 11:49:22 AM »
Let me re-spin it again and some of their older discs so I can support my claim.
may take a day or so.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #191 on: October 14, 2011, 12:01:32 PM »
Re: Anna Kristina, she and I went to high school together!   This is not her usual style at all but I knew she had it in her.   She plays in a number of contexts in the San Francisco area with some regularity.  She used to be in Zeperella, an all-female Led Zep tribute band, but she stopped doing that recently (again, pretty far afield from the stuff she normally likes to do).

http://www.annakristina.com/

Re: recycled riffs, it's not so much that I'm challenging those who claim they are here but I'm genuinely interested to know where you are hearing them since I do try not to repeat myself (unless it's intentional, as for example the opening riff on track 1 which appears in the second verse of No Tickets and also in Let it Rain).

Yeah, I went to her website right away after I saw her name in the credits.  I'm guessing she likely lives somewhere on the Peninsula since she regularly plays that club in Pacifica.  Just out of curiosity, where did you two go to highschool, if you don't mind me asking?

As far as the album, the more I listen, the more blown away I am.  The music itself is incredible.  But the subject matter also hits close to home.  Nick, I am a relatively new fan.  First time I ever heard you guys was opening for DT in Berkeley in 2007.  Unfortunately, I wasn't impressed, but that isn't really any fault of the band.  The sound for both of the opening acts at that show was just terrible.  And on top of that, Ray's voice was just not on at all (and I really hate to even point that out, as a singer myself who understands how difficult it is to perform consistently in a live setting sometimes).  But after a bit of encouragement from people here, I picked up Snowfall in 2009 and was instantly hooked.  My understanding is that you have a full-time day job, but I hope you can continue to find a way to balance that with making music for a long, long time because I am consistently impressed with what you and the guys do.
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Offline Zook

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #192 on: October 14, 2011, 12:37:09 PM »
Alright Nick, you asked for it.

Another reason to keep me up... Argh!

Offline Zook

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #193 on: October 14, 2011, 02:15:40 PM »
First familiararity is on Path Of The Whirlwind. From :13-:26 seconds, it sounds an awful lot like :44-1:11 of Peel. The riffs are different, but the drums are doing almost the same thing. So you get a pass, but I'm afraid it's too late for Chris Quirarte. SILENCE!



Same song, the riff before the verses come in is the same riff in The Suffocating Silence.

No Tickets to The Funeral's only crime is copying the way a soundbyte is played before the solo like in Leviathan Rising. "It has begun" Vs. The funeral is about to begin". This is my favorite song on the album.

Dreams From The Pit. I already talked about this one. The Iconoclast and Wicked riff. Let's just say I created it. *insert Michael Romeo fat joke here* We also have the riff from Pagan's Mind's The Celestine Prophecy. During the solo, The Suffocating Silence riff returns.

Ah Narcosynthosis, I mean Fistful of Sand, I mean Laviathan Rising, I mean Noonday Devil. There we go. It's OK, that same riff will be in a KrotchRaut song too. Can't deny awesomeness.

For Focus, the melody from This Dying Soul makes a second appearence in one of your songs with the bass at the beginning. The first appearance being in Keep Breathing, during the instrumental section, only slightly modified. Fistful of Sand riff returns again in this song during the solo. I also noticed something else, but I'll save it for the last song.

The only thing on Begin Again I hear is a riff from Countdown to Extintion (the song). If you hadn't noticed, I'm pointing out every similarity I hear, not just from your songs. Yeah I know, I suck.

Departure of The Pale Horse starts with the synth keyboard (if that's not what it is, well, I never said I was a music genius). Then at 6:08 we get Tool's Schism! MY BRUTHA knows how to play that riff. Also, I heard a variation of the schism riff in a couple other songs earlier.The song ends like Transcendence. I love that song too.

Well as you can see, I'm a dick. But seriously, all this hasn't hurt my enjoyment of this album. I still love it. I love all your albums. Well, not the debut, but everything after that. I love Redemption, plain and simple, and these little flubs don't matter. Besides, Lost Not Forgotten is Under A Glass Moon!


Now if you'll excuse me, I must either eat something or pass out, or both.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #194 on: October 14, 2011, 03:13:38 PM »
It just hit me what having Path of the Whirlwind start this album reminds me of.  Anyone here familiar with the Y&T song, Sqeeze?  Of course not.  Why would you be?  Here, treat yourself:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx6be9OE6Mw

Anyhow, I remember Dave Meniketti commenting about the song and saying something along the lines of:  "The record label told us we couldn't start a song like that.  But we wrote it that way on purpose because we wanted it to sound like you just dropped the needle in the middle of a record with a high-energy, full-on, assault of rock that was about to rip your face off."  The point was, it doesn't really feel like how you would normally expect a song to start, and it kinda catches you off guard.  This album is kinda like that.  It just drops you right into the middle of the turbulence that the album is about, and sort of puts you as the listener off balance in a way that I suppose sort of mirrors the protagonist dealing with the issues brought out in the songs on this album.  Interesting...
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 08:35:14 PM by bosk1 »
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Offline wolfking

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #195 on: October 14, 2011, 03:23:17 PM »
Of course there's one person here familiar with that amazing Y&T song, bosk!  :tup

Interesting analogy, I can slightly see where you're coming from with that.  As with Zook and his similarities, I'll have to check these out later.

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #196 on: October 16, 2011, 05:58:51 AM »
I've gotten through this album one time so far and I like what I'm hearing.  Some of my friends have complained about the production.  I guess I'm just not that picky, to me it sounds good.  There are certainly some mixing choices there that I might not have made myself, but I think these things are always subjective to some extent.

I have a question if Mr. van Dyk is still reading:  Is there a 7-string guitar in use here?



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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #197 on: October 16, 2011, 03:14:44 PM »
OH MY GOD THOSE VOCAL HARMONIES ON PERFECT JUST BLEW MY FUCKING MIND

That's all for now.  More later.

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #198 on: October 17, 2011, 09:03:58 AM »
On my third listen now and I can already tell that I like this better than the last couple of releases - not that the last couple were bad or anything, but there's something about this one.  I think it has more variety to the sound.

Offline WilliamMunny

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #199 on: October 17, 2011, 09:13:08 AM »
I am digging it as well.  I was initially disappointed with the production but after repeated listens I guess I am just taking it for what it is.  Considering the cover art/lyrical themes I actually think the mix works and fits.

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #200 on: October 17, 2011, 11:54:06 AM »
Like I wrote earlier in this thread, I may not have made the same choices on the mixing, but the mastering is noticeably NOT brickwalled, which is nice, and I noticed that the keyboards seem a little more prominent in the mix, which I dig.

I guess the only criticism I have at this point (and it's a very minor beef) is the vocals seem a bit......rough......in spots.  They're not bad, mind you.  Ray's voice does seem to be losing some of that power and authority that he had on the earlier recordings.   

Offline Samsara

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #201 on: October 17, 2011, 03:58:45 PM »
Very much enjoying the record. Thanks to Nick and the guys for putting out another quality record.

This one hits home for me, personally (like I am sure it does for many folks). While I'm not a cancer survivor like Nick, I lost my Mom to the big C back in Jan. 2010 after a year battle with it. She was just 58. Not the same kind of cancer as Nick's, but it really doesn't matter.

Listening to the record, I can't help but imagine if she was thinking similar thoughts, particularly through about the first half of the record or so, during her battles with the disease. Obviously, I'll never be able to ask. But like Nick, she fought hard, and this album really reminds me of the strength and emotion my mother showed in her own battle, albeit through the words of another person.

Thanks for sharing, Nick. also -- your blog about your experiences is also something I still read to this day.

Really diggin' the new tunes. Hope you guys get to tour the states a little bit at some point in the future. I saw the Berkeley, Calif. 2007 show too. Like bosk1 said, sound was off, but I was already a fan, so it was all about just singing along.
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Offline TAC

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #202 on: October 18, 2011, 01:47:11 PM »
Heard it for the first time today. I love it. Look forward to digging in further.

And as the resident UFO fan here on DTF, THANK YOU for covering the most underrated song of the 70's!
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Beowulf

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #203 on: October 18, 2011, 04:21:38 PM »
The covers disc is decent, but the new album is wonderful.  But why are you a Genesis hater?  Be more specific: most people hate later Genesis with Phil and the sappy, crappy songs.  But the early stuff with Gabriel, and even the first couple of albums with Phil singing aren't bad at all.
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Offline wolfking

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #204 on: October 18, 2011, 06:03:24 PM »
And as the resident UFO fan here on DTF, THANK YOU for covering the most underrated song of the 70's!

Yeah, Love to Love is amazing.  I think this is the best cover of the disc too.  Damn, you're right TAC such an underrated song.

Offline LudwigVan

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #205 on: October 19, 2011, 08:28:19 AM »
The covers disc is decent, but the new album is wonderful.  But why are you a Genesis hater?  Be more specific: most people hate later Genesis with Phil and the sappy, crappy songs.  But the early stuff with Gabriel, and even the first couple of albums with Phil singing aren't bad at all.

Believe me when I say he hates ALL of it. 
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Offline TAC

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #206 on: October 20, 2011, 11:04:43 AM »
The covers disc is decent, but the new album is wonderful.  But why are you a Genesis hater?  Be more specific: most people hate later Genesis with Phil and the sappy, crappy songs.  But the early stuff with Gabriel, and even the first couple of albums with Phil singing aren't bad at all.

Believe me when I say he hates ALL of it.
:lol
So true!
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline nvandyk

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #207 on: October 21, 2011, 10:38:03 AM »
Zook -

Apologies for the delay -- I wasn't ducking you, just busy!  :)

First familiararity is on Path Of The Whirlwind. From :13-:26 seconds, it sounds an awful lot like :44-1:11 of Peel. The riffs are different, but the drums are doing almost the same thing. So you get a pass, but I'm afraid it's too late for Chris Quirarte. SILENCE!

I actually noticed this as we were recording but forgot to have him change it.   You're right, it is rythmically similar!  But the fundamental riff is indeed so different that I don't think it matters that much.

Quote
Same song, the riff before the verses come in is the same riff in The Suffocating Silence.

No, it's not.  :)

Both are a D minor scale, but there are differences in the notes.

Quote
No Tickets to The Funeral's only crime is copying the way a soundbyte is played before the solo like in Leviathan Rising. "It has begun" Vs. The funeral is about to begin". This is my favorite song on the album.

Glad you like the song!   The clip in Leviathan Rising, from V for Vendetta, says "penny for the guy."   I don't think you can say that a sample saying "penny for the guy" and another sample saying "the funeral is about to begin" is a recycled riff.  :)

Quote
Dreams From The Pit. I already talked about this one. The Iconoclast and Wicked riff. Let's just say I created it. *insert Michael Romeo fat joke here* We also have the riff from Pagan's Mind's The Celestine Prophecy. During the solo, The Suffocating Silence riff returns.

Again, I wrote this primary riff for this song in 2003, and it has a decidedly Savatage feel to it.  I listened to Iconoclast a few times yesterday and I don't hear the similarity.  I don't know the Pagan's Mind song so I can't comment on it.  I will grant you, the motif used between the second and third guitar solos is similar to the motif used in the outro technical section to Suffocating Silence, although the modulation to different keys and the different time signatures (4/4 in DftP, 7/4 in Suffocating) make them distinct enough.

Quote
Ah Narcosynthosis, I mean Fistful of Sand, I mean Laviathan Rising, I mean Noonday Devil. There we go. It's OK, that same riff will be in a KrotchRaut song too. Can't deny awesomeness.

Well, now I think you may be getting a bit carried away.   This is simply a rhythmic figure.   Is Symphony X's "Of Sins and Shadows" recycling "The Mirror" by DT simply because they have a rhythmic figure in the verse that is the 8th note before the down beat and then two eighth notes?

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For Focus, the melody from This Dying Soul makes a second appearence in one of your songs with the bass at the beginning. The first appearance being in Keep Breathing, during the instrumental section, only slightly modified. Fistful of Sand riff returns again in this song during the solo. I also noticed something else, but I'll save it for the last song.

Hruh? I don't follow you re: TDS, or Keep Breathing.   See previous comment re: Fistful of Sand.

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The only thing on Begin Again I hear is a riff from Countdown to Extintion (the song). If you hadn't noticed, I'm pointing out every similarity I hear, not just from your songs. Yeah I know, I suck.

Where?  If anything in my writing sounds like Megadeth, it's the solo backing sections to Keep Breathing and the final guitar solo in Dreams from the Pit!  :)

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Departure of The Pale Horse starts with the synth keyboard (if that's not what it is, well, I never said I was a music genius). Then at 6:08 we get Tool's Schism!

If this was Tool (I don't know them) my bass player woulda stopped me.   He knows every riff of theirs.   It might be *similar* to Tool, though.

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Well as you can see, I'm a dick.

Hardly!  :)    A little OCD, maybe, but I appreciate your enthusiasm and your willingness to take me up on my challenge.   I will give you there are some similar concepts in your notes, but I don't think I'm overly guilty of "recycled riffs" as was originally stated.

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But seriously, all this hasn't hurt my enjoyment of this album. I still love it. I love all your albums. Well, not the debut, but everything after that.

1.   Thank you very sincerely, and 2. I agree with you re: the debut!  ;)

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I love Redemption, plain and simple, and these little flubs don't matter.

I really appreciate it, Zook!

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Besides, Lost Not Forgotten is Under A Glass Moon!

I think you must be a savant with this stuff!  I know that every Iron Maiden song from Number of the Beast through Seventh Son (all great records) has the E, C, D E chord progression -- I can spot that stuff.   But I wouldn't have made the connection between LNF and UAGM!   I can't even make the connections in stuff I wrote!!  :)


Now if you'll excuse me, I must either eat something or pass out, or both.
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Offline TAC

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #208 on: October 21, 2011, 10:56:09 AM »
I just want to say congrats to Zook and Nick. That was some great reading.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D

Offline Zook

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Re: Redemption - This Mortal Coil (Out now!)
« Reply #209 on: October 21, 2011, 11:11:30 AM »
Oh cool, I thought I scared you away, Nick :P Thanks for replying and yeah I'm a little OCD when it comes to music (lol Portnoy) I have to point out every little thing that sounds similar.

I wish I could make a video with all this stuff to show you, but I'm sure Bosk would devour my soul if I did. It's not important, but some of the things you said you couldn't hear similarities for I feel I MUST SHOW YOU!!!!

I am glad you were cool with my write up cause I felt kinda rude while doing it. Thanks again for respoding! You rock! :2metal:

Oh, and if you wanna hear The Mirror in a Symphony X song, listen to The Death Of Balance ;)