Author Topic: I want to learn guitar.  (Read 9423 times)

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Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2011, 11:48:07 AM »
:lol  Hahaha.

*starts typing up PM*

Offline bosk1

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2011, 12:03:24 PM »
Cozmo, he doesn't need a metronome.  He can just come to my garage and I'll get in some drum practice while he's getting in his guitar practice.  :)
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Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2011, 12:05:45 PM »
Killer deal.  Even better idea.

Offline jsem

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2011, 01:52:18 PM »
There are flamenco technique that are just insane, and I bet no one of the "great" metal guitarists can emulate them.

not even broderick!?
True. He's the only one that could possibly do it.

Offline SPNKr

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2011, 03:42:08 PM »
I'd maybe get the thinnest electric guitar string gauge available. 009-038 I think there is. 042s used to kill my fingers in the first year to year and a half. But then you get used to it. Now, one of my guitars has 010-052 thickness.

Offline Ħ

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2011, 01:35:25 AM »
Ok I have a question or two.  It's something I don't really get that I see popping up in a lot of songs.

I was trying to learn some Green Day, because, well, it's Green Day and I think I can handle it.  Looking at the two measures of Holiday:

E|----------------------------------|---------------------------|  
B|-9-9-9--6-6-6--13-13-13--8-8-8-8--|-9-9-9--6-6-6--13-13-13-  
G|-x-x-x--x-x-x---x--x--x--8-8-8-8--|-x-x-x--x-x-x---x--x--x--8-|
D|-x-x-x--x-x-x---x--x--x--x-x-x-x--|-x-x-x--x-x-x---x--x--x--x-|  
A|-8-8-8--4-4-4--11-11-11--6-6-6-6--|-8-8-8--4-4-4--11-11-11-
E|----------------------------------|---------------------------|    

So, uh...what do the x's mean?

And supposing there aren't any x's there...how am I supposed to play two notes at the same time without hitting the strings in between?  I understand that you can do fingerpicking for acousitc stuff, but if I neet to have a pick in my hand, how I am supposed to do that?

Cozmo, he doesn't need a metronome.  He can just come to my garage and I'll get in some drum practice while he's getting in his guitar practice.  :)
I might take you up on that...
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2011, 07:06:55 AM »
They're muted notes.  In an instance like that, your index finger will be fretting the note on the A string.  Just lay it back a hair, so that it lays across the D and G strings, but doesn't fret them.  This should mute them enough that you can hit all four string and only sound the couple that you need.

Offline jsem

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2011, 08:37:09 AM »
It's difficult at first, but it'll come naturally.

Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #43 on: February 14, 2011, 08:43:15 AM »
Yep.  Takes a little getting used to knowing how to angle your fingers right, to get enough pressure to mute them, but not fret them.  Like he said, it'll come to you.

Offline antigoon

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #44 on: February 14, 2011, 09:52:23 AM »
That shit took me forever to figure out :lol

Offline Ħ

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #45 on: February 14, 2011, 04:29:20 PM »
Ok.  Now lets say that the x's aren't there, and it wants me to play two strings simultaneously.  Am I still supposed to just mute the notes in between, or is that a completely different technique altogether?  Assuming I have a pick in my hand, how do I do ths?
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline bosk1

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #46 on: February 14, 2011, 04:55:05 PM »
Depends on the tab.  There are three possibilities I can think of:  (1) the tab is written incorrect, and whoever wrote it forgot the x's.  (2) the tab is written correctly, and you are supposed to finger pick or use a similar technique.  (3) you are reading the tab wrong.  I'm going to assume we aren't talking about #3.  If #1, that has been explained above.  If #2, there are techniques where you can still have a pick in your hand and finger pick.  For example, rather than strumming or picking with a closed right hand as you normally would, your hand is open and you are holding the plectrum with only your thumb and index finger and using that to strike the lower strings while using your other fingers to strike the upper strings. If that's what it is asking you to do, I would probably either learn a different song with more basic skills first or play it as if it were a full chord.  Cozmo or others may disagree, but personally, I think you should probably learn to strum more basic chords and play scales consisting of one-note-at-a-time picking before moving on to more difficult techniques.
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Offline cthrubuoy

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #47 on: February 15, 2011, 05:51:23 AM »
That shit took me forever to figure out :lol

This!

Offline cthrubuoy

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #48 on: February 15, 2011, 05:55:32 AM »
Ok.  Now lets say that the x's aren't there, and it wants me to play two strings simultaneously.  Am I still supposed to just mute the notes in between, or is that a completely different technique altogether?  Assuming I have a pick in my hand, how do I do ths?

https://theguitarresource.com/technique/hybrid-picking-guitar/

But I SERIOUSLY doubt that Green day use this technique

Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #49 on: February 15, 2011, 06:25:20 AM »
Definitely of all the possibilities mentioned, given that this is Green Day and I've played this song before, it's definitely fretting the two notes and muting the two between, to give the whole phrase more "bite" with distortion.

Alternately, the passage you've noted above is just the outlines of chord shapes, so if you wanted, you could just play the full chords, as I've noted here.  Then you won't even have to worry about it and it will sound just fine this way.

E|------------------------------------------------|
B|--9--9--9----6-6-6---13-13-13---8-8-8-8--|   
G|-10-10-10---6-6-6---13-13-13---8-8-8-8--|
D|-10-10-10---6-6-6---13-13-13---8-8-8-8--|
A|-8---8--8----4-4-4---11-11-11---6-6-6-6--|
E|------------------------------------------------|   

Since you're new at it, I'll assume you aren't familiar with normal fretting positions, i.e. what fingers go where.  For that first chord (F minor), index frets the A string, ring on the D string, pinky on the G string, and middle on the B string.  All the others (C#, G#, D#), index on the A string, ring finger frets the other three.  Just be careful not to hit the high E string also, it'll sound a little funny.

Offline Ħ

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #50 on: February 15, 2011, 07:27:55 AM »
ring finger frets the other three.
And this is where I decide to learn a different song.  :lol  Thanks to both of you though for your responses.

Ok one more question...

I understand that you are supposed to use alternate picking in most, but are you supposed to do that with chords, or are they all downstrokes?  I ask because when I try to play chords with an upstroke, the pick gets "snagged," so I suspect that is not the way I'm supposed to play them.

I see acoustic players using alternate strumming cause it sounds pretty, but when I try it with a distorted guitar, it just doesn't sound right.
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline jsem

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #51 on: February 15, 2011, 07:38:55 AM »
Playing chords with an imperfect harmony (3rd, 7th etc - anything except 4th & 5th) you'll probably get rubbish sounds on dist. Especially if you keep strumming.

Offline cthrubuoy

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #52 on: February 15, 2011, 07:53:43 AM »
Chords are to be strummed, purely downstrokes or purely upstroke depending on how it sounds, and how you want to play it.

Generally, my advice would be:
If you playing a 3 string chord such as

|---
|---
|---
|-5-
|-5-
|-3-

Downstroke it.
If you're playing a 3 string chord such as

|-4-
|-5-
|-4-
|---
|---
|---

upstroke it.

This is purely for convenience though and wont always be the case. It's one of those things that comes with practice. Try choosing 3/4 chords (E mah, C maj , A min, D maj) and strum them in different ways. Also, try holding the pick in different ways to see what's most comfortable for you. You'll find that you'll hold the pick in different ways when strumming as when playing a single string riff. This is fine, through practice you'll also learn how to change pick position quickly using only your picking hand.

Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #53 on: February 15, 2011, 08:22:23 AM »
And this is where I decide to learn a different song.  :lol  Thanks to both of you though for your responses.

To be fair, this is one of the most basic chord shapes on a guitar.  Sooner or later, you're going to learn it.  I see your point, it SOUNDS daunting, certainly.  As with anything else you'll read in this thread and stumble upon in your practicing, this is NOT an insurmountable task.  It will take some time for it to feel right and familiar to your fingers.  Your hands and fingers are not used to being positioned in the ways that you're now trying to make them be.  Muscle memory will eventually take over and it'll be second nature for you and you likely won't even have to think about it anymore.

Quote
Ok one more question...

I understand that you are supposed to use alternate picking in most, but are you supposed to do that with chords, or are they all downstrokes?  I ask because when I try to play chords with an upstroke, the pick gets "snagged," so I suspect that is not the way I'm supposed to play them.

I see acoustic players using alternate strumming cause it sounds pretty, but when I try it with a distorted guitar, it just doesn't sound right.

For me, I would use the term alternate picking, in reference to single note lines.  For instance, say you've got several four note-per-string sequences, one on each string.  I would use alternate (down-up-down-up) picking for efficiency's sake.  Alternate picking is generally used to execute fast sequences most efficiently (economy of motion).

As far as chords go, how you wanna strum it depends on different things.  Pick thickness is one thing.  If you're strumming the chords to "Every Rose Has Its Thorn", you'll be able to strum up and down, but you might best be served by having a thinner pick with which to do this (something like a .73 mm or something).

If you're playing the riff to Metallica's "Leper Messiah", something thicker may be better suited (1 mm to 1.14 mm) and would likely sound better with all downstrokes, for added heaviness.

This makes for another point.  It'd be wise to have several different pick thicknesses on hand to experiment with.  My tastes in pick thicknesses has changed MANY times over the years.  Started out with flimsy ones, then the big triangular flimsy ones, to a 2 mm pick, back to 1.14mm, now I'm usng polished brass picks.  So try out different picks from time to time, to see what works best for you in different situations.

As you learn chords, you'll eventually find ways to play the chords without makng extra noise.  Take cthru's example above.  The second chord (4-5-4).  You're thinking "How am I supposed to pick that, when there's three other strings there I'll likely hit accidentally.  There's no hard and fast answer, except that in time, you'll find your own personal comfort in how to mute those extra strings, or pick/strum precisely enough to not hit the extra strings.  "I will learn how to strum three strings on their own?"  Yes, you will.

I know that the very last thing you want to hear as a new guitar player is "it will take time", but unfortunately, that's the one thing you MOST have to keep in mind.  Be patient and eventually, if you keep practicing, these things WILL come to you.


Playing chords with an imperfect harmony (3rd, 7th etc - anything except 4th & 5th) you'll probably get rubbish sounds on dist. Especially if you keep strumming.

Yeah, especially if you're only playing those two notes.  I find though, that if you're doing a full major chord that even with distortion, it sounds pretty decent.  Minor chords will sound slightly dissonant with distortion, but I think using the A minor shape that uses the A string as the root note sounds better through distortion than the full E string root minor chords.  Could be just me, though.

Offline BRGM

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #54 on: February 15, 2011, 10:28:28 AM »
learn the intro riff to ITPOE pt.1, that's how I did, oh and I used tabs

Offline jsem

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #55 on: February 15, 2011, 01:19:03 PM »
Playing chords with an imperfect harmony (3rd, 7th etc - anything except 4th & 5th) you'll probably get rubbish sounds on dist. Especially if you keep strumming.

Yeah, especially if you're only playing those two notes.  I find though, that if you're doing a full major chord that even with distortion, it sounds pretty decent.  Minor chords will sound slightly dissonant with distortion, but I think using the A minor shape that uses the A string as the root note sounds better through distortion than the full E string root minor chords.  Could be just me, though.
Well, I wouldn't agree with that two-note thing. If you're playing only two notes, it often works out even on heavy dist. I mean, that's how black metal atmospheric guitar playing works - playing a 2nd apart basically. And root-b5 is also pretty epic..

Offline Ħ

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #56 on: February 15, 2011, 01:23:33 PM »
Chords are to be strummed, purely downstrokes or purely upstroke depending on how it sounds, and how you want to play it.

Generally, my advice would be:
If you playing a 3 string chord such as

|---
|---
|---
|-5-
|-5-
|-3-

Downstroke it.
If you're playing a 3 string chord such as

|-4-
|-5-
|-4-
|---
|---
|---

upstroke it.

This is purely for convenience though and wont always be the case. It's one of those things that comes with practice. Try choosing 3/4 chords (E mah, C maj , A min, D maj) and strum them in different ways. Also, try holding the pick in different ways to see what's most comfortable for you. You'll find that you'll hold the pick in different ways when strumming as when playing a single string riff. This is fine, through practice you'll also learn how to change pick position quickly using only your picking hand.
Huh...to me it would be more convenient to upstroke the first and downstroke the second, because you eliminate the possibility of bumping into strings.  Or is there a sound issue involved, where it's better to end a chord towards the middle strings?
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Offline sneakyblueberry

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #57 on: February 15, 2011, 01:37:26 PM »
My advice to you would be to start simple and SLOWLY work your way up.  If your having trouble with the Holiday octaves, maybe just stick to simple stuff like wrapping your head around barre and open chords.

I'm currently teaching two beginner guitarist and seriously the biggest hurdle that they face is that they have no feel for the guitar.  Its like a baby taking it's first steps; they're not too sure how their fingers/hands/body should be placed, how hard they need to fret, how to strum, how to hold a pick, the rhythm for the strum etc.  It is really difficult at first, but you need these foundations set solidly if you want to be a good guitar player.

Simple is key.  You're gonna wanna start playing your absolute favourite songs at first, but in reality, you'll probably end up giving up because of the difficulty.  Just learn simple songs at so you can develop a feel for the guitar.  Nirvana stuff, White Stripes, etc.  You may hate the songs to death, but its not about that: but its about learning to love the guitar.  If you punch above your weight, your going to loathe the guitar. 



tl;dr

Do not do this:
learn the intro riff to ITPOE pt.1

Offline jsem

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #58 on: February 15, 2011, 02:46:53 PM »
Do not do this:
learn the intro riff to ITPOE pt.1

lol. I learned in the sax a while ago, then I forgot it because the rest of the song was too messed up with odd time signatures and constant notes - no time to breathe. So I gave up on learning the bass on ITPOE pt 1

Offline cthrubuoy

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #59 on: February 16, 2011, 02:07:05 AM »
learn the intro riff to ITPOE pt.1, that's how I did, oh and I used tabs


Offline BRGM

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #60 on: February 16, 2011, 03:01:39 PM »
It's true! :O a "friend" showed me guitar pro! and then I just learned the 24 first notes on ITPOE! the rest is history, sure, it took a while to nail it, and to keep up the tempo, but now I can do it in my sleep.

Offline cthrubuoy

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #61 on: February 17, 2011, 03:41:41 AM »
Are you referring to this?
Code: [Select]
E|-5-----------------------------------------------|
B|---6-8-5---6---5---------------------------------|
G|---------7---7---5---7-----5---------------------|
D|-------------------7---7-5---5-3-2---------------|
A|-----------------------------------5-----3-------|
E|-------------------------------------5-3---3-1-0-|

This is NOT a beginner lick.

Advising someone who hasn't played guitar before to just pick one up and slam this out isn't going to help anyone. There are so many things wrong with it.
For starters, the lick is on all 6 strings. Having not yet got to grips with a one string lick, 6 is a pretty daunting task.
Next, I believe the lick is started on an upstroke. A beginner would not know this and could be learning and forcing the bad habit of playing such things in completely the wrong way.
The lick uses all four fingers and needs at least moderate dexterity in order to play it competently. A beginner would not have this and may again be forcing a bad habit to occur.
The lick forces multiple changes in hand positions.
The lick is descending rather than ascending, which I've noticed is another trait difficult for the beginner guitarist.
It's also quite a fast lick in the grand scheme of things. A beginner may not realise to speed such a lick down, causing sloppiness and again, bad habits.
I could go on...

I'm all for throwing people in at the deep end, but this really isn't that way to do it.

Offline BRGM

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #62 on: February 18, 2011, 04:26:50 PM »
...it worked for me...or maybe I have some bad habits...oh well!

Offline sneakyblueberry

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #63 on: February 19, 2011, 10:14:44 PM »
Do not do this:
learn the intro riff to ITPOE pt.1

lol. I learned in the sax a while ago, then I forgot it because the rest of the song was too messed up with odd time signatures and constant notes - no time to breathe. So I gave up on learning the bass on ITPOE pt 1

??? are you saying you learnt the bass part on sax? :lol

Offline Ħ

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #64 on: February 27, 2011, 07:15:15 PM »
So...an update.

- I can play the eight common chords pretty fluently except Dm and sometimes G.
- Alternate picking is clean at about 152 (playing eighth notes)
- I learned a couple blues scales and now I sound good even though I'm just randomly hitting notes.  :biggrin:

As for songs...I can play the intro to Pull Me Under, the Mother solo, the Another Day intro solo, and a lot of the easy beginner strumming songs.

Not at JP-level yet, though.  But reaching.
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Offline jsem

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #65 on: February 27, 2011, 11:54:14 PM »
Great to hear you're making progress.  :tup

Offline axeman90210

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #66 on: March 20, 2011, 10:02:08 PM »
Just wanted to say this thread was very good to read through as someone who very casually played for a couple years in high school and into college, but hadn't picked up a guitar for about a year and a half until the other day. That Steve Vai 30 hour workout in particular looks like it'll come in handy.
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Offline unklejman

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #67 on: May 12, 2011, 04:07:29 PM »
Ok here's my story. For years now I've fiddled on my guitar. On several attempts I've tried to really start learning how to play but I always get overwhelmed about where to start. I play the trombone, and I learned the Horn a several years ago with no problems, because you just have to learn linear notes/scales, not chords and bar chords etc.  To this day I only know to play the basic E, E minor, G, A, maybe C and F. I can play the C major scale. But through out the years I did learn playing technique, and figured out power chords (probably incorrectly) and even recorded a few tracks:

https://jreydesign.com/misc/captive_track.mp3
https://www.jreydesign.com/misc/are_you_out_there_draft_track.mp3 (this one never got finished and isn't the final mix.)

I have absolutely no idea what I played in those tracks, except maybe what root the power chords were on. I feel like a waste really. I've been trying to make myself get lessons, but I've alway been nervous about getting the wrong teacher. I think I'm going to go ahead and push myself to do it. I've always shyed away from tabs, because I'm used to reading notation. Is it odd for guitar players to learn notation instead of tabs? Also, what should be some guidelines when choosing a teacher?

Online jonny108

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #68 on: May 13, 2011, 07:28:37 AM »
I'd recommend just sell your guitar on ebay, you'll never be as good as Petrucci so just don't bother  :)

In all seriousness sounds like your coming along nicely.  Keep it going dude!  :)

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: I want to learn guitar.
« Reply #69 on: May 15, 2011, 02:45:39 PM »
I remember barre chords taking about 6 months before I could move the E shape up the neck without losing the shape.