DT: The League v. main round results!

[wjc]

Any currently running rounds will be the last two in the list below. (Unless I forget to update it, basically you're better off checking the P/S board)

That's right folks, the second iteration of the six-month extravaganza known to the English-speaking world (and most of the rest) as Dream Theater: The League has been brought off the ice of forum relinquishment where it lay, and resumes with Week 2-B.

For those of you who are unaware of it, DT: The League is an extended, multi-round poll in which every Dream Theater song of any report is pitted against each other and you pick your favourite in each match-up. "Well what is the point?" I anticipate you thinking. "What can money buy? What's wrong with the Survivor?" To quote Destiny of Chaos, the guy who originally ran this:

In 2005, I unleashed hell on the Polls & Survivors forum. I did many different Survivors. I even started the DT Survivor that has been ran every year since by either myself, Splent or Ariich, as well as the Member Tournament that Nick has since taken over.

After doing a few survivors, I felt that there was a better way.... a more fun way, a more positive way. For in survivors, you are constantly voting for your least favorite songs. Also, unless a song made it to the finals or the consolation round, you'd never see it against songs from different albums.

I thought, what would happen if I came up with a season, where a song like Home would match up against a song like Scarred. Or a song like You Not Me matched up against a song like Light Fuse and Get Away. After the grueling season, a 64 song tournament ensued. All the while.... we got to choose our FAVORITE of the two songs. 

Numbers and stuff
The first phase of the competition runs for twenty rounds lasting one round each in which every song is randomly matched up against another. Of the ninety-two songs in the competition, thirty each are matched up in sub-rounds A, B and C, which start on the Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday of each week respectively and last for 48 hours. The last two as sort-of chosen by me will be played off over Thursday and Friday in the Match of the Week. If you really don't have the time to take part in any of the rest, at least have a go at the Match of the Week, guaranteed to be interesting and competitive! (Week 20 is likely to be Raw Dog vs You Not Me, so all you YNM apologist have something to look forward to.)

DT: The League then will be back with a final round, in which songs which end up consecutive on the rankings (which will be determined at the end of this round) face off against each other until an equilibrium is reached and a final list is produced.

Links

Destiny of Chaos' old thread

Week 1-A 1-B 1-C 1-MotW
Week 2-A 2-B 2-C 2-MotW
Week 3-A 3-B 3-C 3-MotW
Week 4-A 4-B 4-C 4-MotW
Week 5-A 5-B 5-C 5-MotW
Week 6-A 6-B 6-C 6-MotW
Week 7-A 7-B 7-C 7-MotW
Week 8-A 8-B 8-C 8-MotW
Week 9-A 9-B 9-C 9-MotW
Week 10-A 10-B 10-C 10-MotW
Week 11-A 11-B 11-C 11-MotW
Week 12-A 12-B 12-C 12-MotW
Week 13-A 13-B 13-C 13-MotW
Week 14-A 14-B 14-C 14-MotW
Week 15-A 15-B 15-C 15-MotW
Week 16-A 16-B 16-C 16-MotW
Week 17-A 17-B 17-C 17-MotW
Week 18-A 18-B 18-C 18-MotW
Week 19-A 19-B 19-C 19-MotW
Week 20-A 20-B 20-C 20-MotW

[wjc]

Standings

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miscellaneous               1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 med  W  L  T
Another Won                18 30  8 13 15 17  0 16 41 35 32 25 25  3 13 60 19 78 28  0  18  2 18  0
Don't Look Past Me         25 31 13 34 28 50 16 41 34 30 29  7  7 15 28 40 38 19 37 22  29  0 19  1
To Live Forever            23 67 15 61 12 40 46 11 58 32 33 31 50 40 16 53 17 38 20 31  32  4 15  1
Eve                        22 50 26 29 15 36 17 45 65 32 11 17 44 26 39 41 45 19 52 25  30  3 17  0
A Change of Seasons        88 83 96 99 90 97 93 97 96 96 86 71 99 97 89 99 99 91 99 99  96 20  0  0
Raise the Knife            29 89 33 76 32 63 39 30 92 51 30 27 69 16 20 50  9 19 54 19  32  7 12  1
The Way It Used to Be       2 45  8 30 21  2 13 32 24  7  7 10 19 10 20 57 45 23 37  6  20  1 19  0
Cover My Eyes              15 22  8 10 16 25  3 22 25 18 29 33 30  9 17 29 30 13 24  9  20  0 20  0
Speak to Me                26 58 22 50 47 60 23 50 75 46 18 10 42 32 12 53 52 38 20 22  40  5 13  2
Raw Dog                     9  5 22  2  7  5  6  3  7 11  3 10  6  2  0 42  4 45 19 54   7  1 19  0
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When Dream and Day Unite    1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 med  W  L  T
A Fortune in Lies          81 63 34 40 12 12 20  6 75 66 37 63 24 52 30 70 32 21 89 21  36  8 12  0
Status Seeker              35 15  8  7  7 24  3 18  9  9 72  6 10 18 33 12  6 12 20 16  12  1 19  0
The Ytse Jam               23 17 42 50 28 15 43 34  3 46 31 35 36 81 21 58 60 77 19 84  36  5 14  1
The Killing Hand           23 13 45 34 30 26 34 18 53 37 40 32 36 82 22 46 45 55 75 66  37  5 15  0
Light Fuse and Get Away    64 19 15 21 17 27 12  9 12 12  6 16 20 31 62  0  7 25 15 19  17  2 18  0
Afterlife                  10 32 35 27 10 60 12 19 35 37 20 22 10 47 11 50 34 43 57 74  33  3 16  1
The Ones Who Help to Set t 18 15 13 13 20 33  9  3  3  6 10  6 13 17 56 32 17 16 11 19  14  1 19  0
Only a Matter of Time       4 45 30 40 23 58 34 34 40 18 16 25 30 68 18 46 48 54 52 67  37  5 15  0
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Images and Words            1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 med  W  L  T
Pull Me Under              90 52 93 56 10 91 65 50 70 69 67 77 70 90 78 87 70 60 64 51  69 19  1  0
Another Day                84 43 72 36 80 36 56 40 38 33 56 67 29 67 34 79 46 48 71 45  47  9 11  0
Take the Time              76 69 95 70 87 89 87 81 81 87 97 92 47 90 92 45 80 87 88 55  87 18  2  0
Surrounded                 81 26 93 63 92 75 65 56 60 66 70 66 64 73 55 79 72 63 61 53  66 19  1  0
Metropolis, Pt 1           95 60 80 83 80 88 90 96 96 61 97 99 83 96 92 96 96 72 48 84  89 19  1  0
Under a Glass Moon         76 61 93 35 19 89 87 65 87 84 90 85 87 84 85 33 70 54 74 90  84 17  3  0
Wait for Sleep             74 56 63 43 82 58 93 32 87 35 43 60 35 59 17 73 26 39 51 46  54 11  9  0
Learning to Live           89 92 80 89 90 84 96 90 96 75 97 99 74 97 92 93 47 85 88 93  90 19  1  0
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Awake                       1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 med  W  L  T
6:00                       73 38 56 16 69 69 83 86 70 33 79 22 30 70 55 51 53 78 45 48  56 13  7  0
Caught in a Web            75 84 38 78 83 58 53 50 10 93 62 53 84  7 29 57 66 51  3 53  55 14  5  1
Innocence Faded            59 80 56 59 78 32  6 66 50 83 35 51 81 79 44 65 56 39 80 46  58 13  6  1
Erotomania                 77 47 65 29 76 14 96 93 83 54 35 44 50  2 55 71 43 54 51 42  52 11  8  1
Voices                     97 73 89 64 89 80 99 60 86 66 69 62 60 83 85 80 76 54 44 81  78 19  1  0
The Silent Man             13 54 24 50 52 22 40 16 45 51 20 30 36 65 14  2 13 12 22  9  23  4 15  1
The Mirror                 76 30 32 10 71 75 86 96 70 43 40 69 24 64 82 80 30 45 51 51  57 12  8  0
Lie                        65 84 43 72 71 56 60 61 66 70 43 46 87 17 17 54 63 36 67 54  61 14  6  0
Lifting Shadows off a Drea 11  7 75 86 84 67 76 80 48 83 56 48 87 62 69 77 26 60 38 18  65 13  7  0
Scarred                    70 39 43 92 92 66 82 80 70 86 65 55 54 66 70 79 40 45 37 57  66 15  5  0
Space-Dye Vest             62 67 61 65 85 46 73 51 54 60 60 44 87 79 44 57 50 45 43 48  58 13  6  1
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Falling into Infinity       1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 med  W  L  T
New Millennium             52 68 36 70 52 43 68 50 32 40 32 33 63 69  7 32 96 56  6 80  51 10  9  1
You Not Me                 18 10  4  7 12  5  6  6  9 13 27  0 12  7 37  3  3 21 13 45  10  0 20  0
Peruvian Skies             64 69 34 65 73 22 33 33 37  6 43 39 24 31 21 57 16 83 25 83  35  7 13  0
Hollow Years               65 77 10 69 57 56 66 38 21 48 30 32 15 66 14 42 16 74 15 80  45  9 11  0
Burning My Soul            40 32  6  0 35 10 14 13 29 16  2  0 15 22 44  7 31 55 30 15  15  1 19  0
Hell's Kitchen             83 94 43 89  9 25 23 48 28 36 56 37 75 66 44 53 53 87 38  6  46  9 11  0
Lines in the Sand          86 82 67 86 67 46 65 83 64 63 30 55 75 82 65 75 56 14 58 15  65 16  4  0
Take Away My Pain          11 49  6 38  9 25 36 20 16 29  2 14 18 33  7 14 55 45 70 32  22  2 18  0
Just Let Me Breathe        52 41  6 23 21  7 32  3  3  6  2  7 12  7 66  3 44 22 10 33  11  2 18  0
Anna Lee                   38 54 27 50 30 37 44 20 16 16 10 22 12 36  7  0 68 45 86 25  29  3 16  1
Trial of Tears             66 86 56 97 87 75 75 93 87 93 65 77 84 85 82 80 73 27 80 44  80 18  2  0
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Metropolis, Pt 2: Scenes f  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 med  W  L  T
Overture 1928              60 55 86 27 70 94 53 43 50 33 83 77 50 58 78 85 43 80 61 93  60 14  4  2
Strange Deja Vu            83 25 64 90 87 92 42 34 31 66 68 67 64 62 86 53 86 61 19 77  65 15  5  0
Fatal Tragedy              88 16 20 87 76 56 93 40 90 56 90 93 45 17 88 51 83 86 93 99  84 15  5  0
Beyond This Life           50 35 69 73 81 75 42 18 18 33 96 64 70 53 82 46 50 80 77 68  66 12  6  2
Through Her Eyes           38 41 77 57 29 43 37 81 70 12 70 66 12 20 60 18 33 44 32 44  42  7 13  0
Home                       74 91 19 77 83 87 82 67 81 66 93 93 75 85 81 25 83 80 84 90  82 18  2  0
The Dance of Eternity      59 82 54 68 67 62  6  3  9 30 67 90 35 23 72 48 43  8 56 80  55 11  9  0
One Last Time              54 81 57 51 58 56 58  9 90 15 70 75 29 33 79 14 36 62 19  0  55 12  8  0
The Spirit Carries On      11 78 84 60 56 89 58 49 50 64 60 74 39 58 99 51 26 61 41 74  59 14  5  1
Finally Free               79 82 91 75 90 43 93 60 68 45 80 83 69 62 77 81 46 76 74 77  76 17  3  0
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Six Degrees of Inner Turbu  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 med  W  L  T
The Glass Prison           85 93 91 75 84 77 73 96 96 38 92 92 52 76 87 74 73 96 96 91  86 19  1  0
Blind Faith                44 88 91 56 65 74 70 90 83 24 88 89 16 44 84 48 60 67 61 73  68 15  5  0
Misunderstood              64 52 91 80 83 25 56 65 67 93 66 89 90 23 10 92 46 45 48 14  64 13  7  0
The Great Debate           35 90 73 84 65 77 27 81 78 87 69 68 86 79 88 96 56 86 54 47  77 17  3  0
Disappear                  22 69 77 64 59 53 79 65 62 62 13 72 79 66 46 85 23 79 48 82  65 15  5  0
Six Degrees of Inner Turbu 77 79 86 95 16 53 86 80 83 90 81 82 25 55 79 96 70 37 62 85  79 17  3  0
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Train of Thought            1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 med  W  L  T
As I Am                    61 25  3 31 40 41 13 77 12 53 33 38 63 37  7 57 27 65 28 70  38  7 13  0
This Dying Soul            45 48 64  6  9 32 30 58 54 88 36 36 63 41 19 42 30 55 38 65  42  7 13  0
Endless Sacrifice          40 34 54 60 40 33 26 67 45 64 11 43 93 41 73 46 30 36 35 54  42  7 13  0
Honor Thy Father           50  4 56 59 34 25 62 54 50 81 34 17 74 37 80 25 20 72 25 11  43  8 10  2
Vacant                     16 36 55 40 16 30 41 50 33 69 58 24 69 14 52 20  3 57 11 78  38  7 12  1
Stream of Consciousness    14 59 66 51 59 43 43 83 35 62 66 79 70 46 61 67 53 75 48 73  60 14  6  0
In the Name of God         55 97 84 80 90 67 72 96 71 81 99 28 90 76 84 99 73 89 55 97  82 19  1  0
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Octavarium                  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 med  W  L  T
The Root of All Evil       40 65 49 68 34 19 57 69 51 67 74 89 80 92 81 42 93 65 11 94  66 14  6  0
The Answer Lies Within     47  9 32  4 12 10  6  8 12 10 45 36 31 33 18 20 40 27 25 21  20  0 20  0
These Walls                26 75 75 20 70 63 41 68 30 67 72 64 57 92 34 45 92 57 88 78  65 14  6  0
I Walk Beside You          81  2 42 15 32  8  6 20 16  3 16 33 30 64 51 22 52  3 42  5  21  4 16  0
Panic Attack               11 40 59 35 41 25 46 51 30 48 38 63 50 66 81 42 65 34 84 41  44  7 12  1
Never Enough               59 30 33 20 18 10 17 17 13 44 54 13  0 30 48 20 54 42 48  2  25  3 17  0
Sacrificed Sons            20 51 84 48 15 41 57  2 30 53 72 66 55 77 57 34 82 42 79 58  54 12  8  0
Octavarium                 88 95 82 93 83 85 93 88 90 92 94 97 92 82 96 97 52 96 51 97  92 20  0  0
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Systematic Chaos            1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 med  W  L  T
In the Presence of Enemies 88 47 65 43 43 11 93 42 61 67 83 86 50 68 65 48 95 63 80 88  65 13  6  1
Forsaken                   16 18 24 26 87 40 31 40  3 33  5 10 44 20 19 20 54 20 62  2  22  3 17  0
Constant Motion            34  6 57 48 16 66 63 45 12 20 27 35  6 14  3 26 61 24 76 29  28  5 15  0
The Dark Eternal Night     47 11 66 42  9 75 67 59 29  6 27 36 26 17 18 20 70 34 72 34  34  6 14  0
Repentance                 35 58 40 31 23 72 55 54 18 66 25 33 27 34 48 20 55 10 62 26  34  7 13  0
Prophets of War            13 17 16 10 64 41 33 23  3 33 41  2 55 20 26 12 47 13 47 17  22  2 18  0
The Ministry of Lost Souls 61 20 67 24 29 15 85 76 40 48 61 66 44 33 42 28 80 44 80 45  45  8 12  0
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Black Clouds & Silver Lini  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 med  W  L  T
A Nightmare to Remember    33 64 50 40 78 73 66 57 90 80 65 75 72 82 80 66 82 55 79 52  69 18  2  0
A Rite of Passage          25  8 36 92 26 50 26 31 46 55  0 20 68 29 11 67 30 37 40 55  33  5 14  1
Wither                     34 17 45 12 42 75 60 48 60 90 33 61 50 35 53 87 68 56 59  8  51 10  9  1
The Shattered Fortress     40 44 43 22 47 82 24 79 64 32 66 63 55 33 15  6 69  3  0 26  41  7 13  0
The Best of Times          37 21 44 24 69 94 34 82 87 51 63 56 73 37 38  3  0 32 45 14  41  8 12  0
The Count of Tuscany       86 74 18 72 90 84 76 91 96 93 88 82 93 92 92 54 90 62 80 85  86 19  1  0
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Note that to make the formatting more concise, a score of 100% here is represented as 99%; there are not enough people voting in the league to make 99% ever come up normally.

[PlaysLikeMyung]

What the hell happened to DoC?

[RoeDent]

I think he was offended, so he quit.

[Global Laziness]

I think he was offended, so he quit.

Yeah, this. Check his most recent posts, particularly in the NFL thread.

[Phantasmatron]

WJC:  You da man, dawg! 

o/

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

DT The League lives!

[skydivingninja]

Well, wjc, never heard of you till now but you might be one of the best noobs ever.

[jsem]

Well, wjc, never heard of you till now but you might be one of the best noobs ever.

Lol. Well said.

[wjc]

WJC:  You da man, dawg! 

o/

\o

GUYS GUYS GUYS

[wjc]

Standings for Week 2. Snipped cause in a massive format

[wjc]

Bumping for Week 3 standings

[Jirpo]

BC&SL is doing terribly.

[Dr. DTVT]

Maybe its just the way sports records are listed, but I'm much more used to seeing standings in the "W  -  L  -  T"  format as opposed to "W  -  T  -  L"

Also, I have no idea what those numbers are for each song each week.  It's not the number of votes it received.  Is it the percentage it got?  Either way, without knowing which song went against what each week, it might be better to just truncate the standings to just each songs record.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

BC&SL is doing terribly.

They put TCOT against Octavarium. That's not fair 

[Dr. DTVT]

And ANtR has benefitted from two weak matchups IIRC.

[wjc]

And ANtR has benefitted from two weak matchups IIRC.

Trial of Tears, Beyond this Life and The Root of All Evil, hardly weak.

I have an index which shows approximately how much a song has benefitted or otherwise from the quality of its matchups which when added to the raw average produces rather better results, but sometimes it's a bit wonky

Maybe its just the way sports records are listed, but I'm much more used to seeing standings in the "W  -  L  -  T"  format as opposed to "W  -  T  -  L"

I figured it was less confusing this way, but it's not hard to change.

Also, I have no idea what those numbers are for each song each week.  It's not the number of votes it received.  Is it the percentage it got?  Either way, without knowing which song went against what each week, it might be better to just truncate the standings to just each songs record.

It's the percentage, and hmm

[Jirpo]

I prefer the W-T-L format, but whatever, I don't mind. And yeah the whole album has gotten some pretty bad luck

[ariich]

I like the percentages, pretty interesting info. Those who aren't bothered can just ignore it if they want.

[emindead]

Take The Time is the only song to have taken a 95% of approval. Easy contenders, I believe.

[ariich]

Take The Time is the only song to have taken a 95% of approval. Easy contenders, I believe.

Its average is 80% so far.

Unless you mean that it took 95% one round, but ITNOG took 97% one round.

[Jirpo]

I walk beside you only 2% in the second round. Must have had a horror matchup

[emindead]

Take The Time is the only song to have taken a 95% of approval. Easy contenders, I believe.

Its average is 80% so far.

Unless you mean that it took 95% one round, but ITNOG took 97% one round.

Yeah, I meant the latter. Didn't see that ITNOG one, nice!

[wjc]

Standings Week 4 yay

Also, since next week will be about a quarter of the way through as far as I have planned (it never ends!), I think it might be time for that matchup quality adjustment as somewhat dewonkified, and probably also some individual song rankings maybe.

In the meantime, album averages according to Mrs MQA:

-- A Change of Seasons (89%)
1. Images and Words (72%)
2. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence (72%)
3. Metropolis, Pt 2: Scenes from a Memory (60%)
4. Awake (56%)
5. Octavarium (49%)
6. Train of Thought (46%)
7. Falling into Infinity (46%)
8. Black Clouds & Silver Linings (44%)
9. Systematic Chaos (36%)
-- Cleaning out the Closet (33%)
10. When Dream and Day Unite (30%)

NB: Another Won and Raw Dog are not included in this list as they do not fit anywhere well enough. Where Are You Now? from Cleaning out the Closet was also omitted from this league.

[wjc]

Well this brings us to one-quarter of the way through such DT: The League as has been charted out so far: after cruelly destroying Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence in the Match of the Week, Octavarium remains in first place followed closely by Learning to Live and ACoS (this in the moderated results, ACoS is in the lead in the raw average but has had some of very easy contests).

Album averages have changed a little but as such are fairly boring and unrepresentative: I doubt I'll keep up with them, but may do an album tournament after the song rounds finish.


-- A Change of Seasons (89%)
1. Images and Words (70%)
2. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence (69%)
3. Metropolis, Pt 2: Scenes from a Memory (61%)
4. Awake (60%)
5. Train of Thought (48%)
6. Octavarium (47%)
7. Black Clouds & Silver Linings (45%)
8. Falling into Infinity (44%)
9. Systematic Chaos (36%)
10. When Dream and Day Unite (31%)
-- Cleaning out the Closet (31%)


NB: Another Won and Raw Dog are not included in this list as they do not fit well enough anywhere. Where Are You Now? was also omitted from this league.

[wjc]

Results for Week 7.

[Jirpo]

The killing hand 0-7?

[yorost]

While the random generator you're using may do the job, the nearly album vs album nature of it grows old.  If you do this again I'd be happy to help work out a random generator which gives more diversity each week.

[wjc]

While the random generator you're using may do the job, the nearly album vs album nature of it grows old.  If you do this again I'd be happy to help work out a random generator which gives more diversity each week.

I was using the matchups the guy who started this gave me which I believe was from a tournament generator of some sort. Thanks for the offer man, I don't know whether I'll do this again but if I do I'll get in touch with you fo sho

The killing hand 0-7?

If you look at the round-by-round scores it's mostly been losing narrowly, also from the adjusted percentage it's had a horrible draw. The only time I'd actually pay attention to wins/ties/losses is if we were putting every song against every other song.

[Jirpo]

What is the mqt column?

[Zydar]

What is the mqt column?

Most Quirky Time signatures?

[wjc]

What is the mqt column?

Most Quirky Time signatures?

Na but seriously it's short for matchup quality total or something I don't know. Basically it's what the song's average *should* be based on how well the songs it matched up against did, with a couple of layers of 'regression'. It's not perfect, I am not much of a statistics expert and I will work on it when I get the time but it does give you a decent indication of how much a song has been advantaged or otherwise by the draw.

[Jirpo]

Ah ok, thats a great idea for a column. So Octavarium has had a few tough matchups and still has an average of 88

[wjc]

Ah ok, thats a great idea for a column. So Octavarium has had a few tough matchups and still has an average of 88

Octavarium is a fucking tank, except not everyone loves tanks

[Jirpo]

Well, according to that column it deserves to be a good 5% above 2nd place (ACOS + LTL).