Author Topic: Arch/Matheos - v. Winter Ethereal COMING MAY 10th, 2019!  (Read 54489 times)

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Offline Mebert78

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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #105 on: September 15, 2011, 12:54:29 PM »
I love Midnight Seranade, Stained-Glass Sky and Incense and Myrrh.  Those all grabbed me immediately and I love them.  The others are taking me a bit longer to embrace.  But that always happens to me with Arch stuff.  It took me a while before A Twiste of Fate clicked in.  I have no doubt i will passionately love them very shortly.  And the album artwork is really nice.  I love it.  So great to see Arch back in the prog scene. 
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #106 on: September 15, 2011, 02:34:17 PM »
Posted this somewhere else and thought I'd post it here as well: 

This is going to sound negative simply because I can't find a better way to word it, but it's really not meant as a criticism:  Arch's scale and not choices are just bizarre.  From a musical standpoint, I have no idea what he's doing.  And yet...somehow, it always works and sounds just brilliant.  He obviously knows exactly what he is doing because I just don't think there is any way you could hit the notes in sequence that he does and have it be accidental.  I never really consciously noticed that before, but then again, I haven't really listened to him much.  But it makes me wonder about something.  I made an observation once about Charlie Dominicci that some of his note choices just seem to random at time.  They're always somehow on key, but he has a knack for choosing notes that seem to come out of nowhere and almost seem random, except that they are in the correct key for the song.  I wonder if he became a John Arch fan and was trying to mimmick Arch's style way back when he was in DT.  Maybe not, but I've never really heard anyone else other than those two where something like his jumped out so blatantly.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2011, 03:10:49 PM by bosk1 »
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Offline wolfking

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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #107 on: September 15, 2011, 03:07:23 PM »
Hey bosk, Monument is sung by Ray.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #108 on: September 15, 2011, 03:09:58 PM »
Oh, really?  It's been so long since I listened, that I forgot that.  Well...fine then.  :lol

But as far as the main point of my post, what do you think?
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Offline wolfking

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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #109 on: September 15, 2011, 03:16:49 PM »
Oh, really?  It's been so long since I listened, that I forgot that.  Well...fine then.  :lol

But as far as the main point of my post, what do you think?

Yeah, comes off their Inside Out album released in 1994.

I haven't heard Arch/Matheos yet.  I'm hoping I can find it instore this weekend, if not I'll have to order online.  I have always been torn with my opinions on his voice.  I think what you are saying could have something to do with it.  IN songs like Apparition and Guardian his melodies are fabulous and his voice sounds wonderful.  There are some other songs where some of his vocals just sound a little weird.  I'm not entirely sure if it's his tone or it's his choice of notes and melodies.  I will say some of his vocal melodies make it harder to get into a song more than other because they are so different, so yeah, I guess I understand what you are saying.  I think he makes some melodies just too complicated and overcrowded sometimes.  His vocals do always work and sound good through.

Hmm...very hard to pinpoint and put in words.  :lol
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Offline TAC

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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #110 on: September 15, 2011, 04:57:28 PM »
I hear ya, Wolf. I had a real hard time getting into Fates in the 80's.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Jaq

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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #111 on: September 15, 2011, 05:20:07 PM »
Arch is a monster on this CD, especially on "Stained-Glass Sky" which is atm my favorite progressive metal song of the year. It's so hard to believe that someone who was out of music, except for one EP, since the late 80s is capable of what John Arch pulls off on this CD. His vocal lines ARE odd, but yet they work and sound amazing.
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Offline TAC

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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #112 on: September 15, 2011, 05:58:19 PM »
. It's so hard to believe that someone who was out of music, except for one EP, since the late 80s is capable of what John Arch pulls off on this CD.

This was my sole thought while listening to this. Incredible.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline wolfking

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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #113 on: September 15, 2011, 06:25:23 PM »
Man I hope I can get a hold of this cd this weekend, I'm so looking forward to it.  I'm especially excitied of the return of Frank Aresti, who has been virtually inactive besides one solo on an Eidolon album and one very average solo album since Inside Out.  Love his guitar playing, so underrated.
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Offline pogoowner

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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #114 on: September 15, 2011, 07:54:30 PM »
Posted this somewhere else and thought I'd post it here as well: 

This is going to sound negative simply because I can't find a better way to word it, but it's really not meant as a criticism:  Arch's scale and not choices are just bizarre.  From a musical standpoint, I have no idea what he's doing.  And yet...somehow, it always works and sounds just brilliant.  He obviously knows exactly what he is doing because I just don't think there is any way you could hit the notes in sequence that he does and have it be accidental.  I never really consciously noticed that before, but then again, I haven't really listened to him much.  But it makes me wonder about something.  I made an observation once about Charlie Dominicci that some of his note choices just seem to random at time.  They're always somehow on key, but he has a knack for choosing notes that seem to come out of nowhere and almost seem random, except that they are in the correct key for the song.  I wonder if he became a John Arch fan and was trying to mimmick Arch's style way back when he was in DT.  Maybe not, but I've never really heard anyone else other than those two where something like his jumped out so blatantly.
It's so hard to latch onto the vocal melodies on Sympathetic Resonance. Not only are the note choices often odd, but there are just so MANY different notes in the lines. They just keep coming, often without clear and typical points of emphasis. Covering some of these songs would be a nightmare.

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #115 on: September 15, 2011, 08:37:47 PM »
To the Dominici comment above, I agree completely.

It's much easier to understand and appreciate CD's WDADU performance if you put him in the context of what other prog metal vocalists were doing at that time, Jon Arch especially. Under that light, he's not so "out there."

The problem is, that whole style (the same you hear on this record)was, which is why CD had to go if DT were gonna break out. 


I'm still on the fence as to whether I agree with you and Sam on this album, though. I really, really like it. And it does have a sort of special drawing power to it that ADTOE doesn't have. It's much more "albumy" to me, tbh, and it's the kind of disc I just want to delve into and find out what is going on and what it is that JA is wailing about... Yeah, I think that's it: lyrics. This album has really good lyrics, even if I don't know what they're about yet. That's the one thing this album definitely has on the new DT.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 03:02:09 AM by Perpetual Change »

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #116 on: September 16, 2011, 05:19:27 AM »
So, it's really tough deciding which of these albums is the better. Since both bands are "progressive metal" bands, I'm going to judge each by the progressiveness and metalness brought by each, and then the lyrical depth and melodies, because those categories are important to me.

Progressiveness/Technicality: A Dramatic Turn of Events is the clear winner hear. There's some really astounding instrumental stuff going on in that album, which I don't think anyone will deny.

Metalness: I think Sympathetic Resonance is the clear winner here. ADTOE is good, but it doesn't really bring the metal the way SR does or even the way past DT albums have.

Melody: Going with ADTOE for this. Melody has never really been FW's strong-suite, anyway. And while Jon Arch literally carries the melody for most the songs on SR I think all the instruments really work toward strong melodies on ADTOE

Lyrical Depth: Probably SR. I don't really understand what the lyrics are about (or maybe I should just say *are*), but I'm not really thrilled to pieces with those on ADTOE.

So... 2:2. If I factor in album art and stuff, though, ADTOE would win.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #117 on: September 16, 2011, 08:10:07 AM »
Lyrical Depth: Probably SR. I don't really understand what the lyrics are about (or maybe I should just say *are*), but I'm not really thrilled to pieces with those on ADTOE. 

Bolded the important part.  :lol  I love this album.  But they could have recorded it in any other language, and it wouldn't have made much of a difference.
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Offline Priest of Syrinx

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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #118 on: September 16, 2011, 04:19:35 PM »
Posted this somewhere else and thought I'd post it here as well: 

This is going to sound negative simply because I can't find a better way to word it, but it's really not meant as a criticism:  Arch's scale and not choices are just bizarre.  From a musical standpoint, I have no idea what he's doing.  And yet...somehow, it always works and sounds just brilliant.  He obviously knows exactly what he is doing because I just don't think there is any way you could hit the notes in sequence that he does and have it be accidental.  I never really consciously noticed that before, but then again, I haven't really listened to him much.  But it makes me wonder about something.  I made an observation once about Charlie Dominicci that some of his note choices just seem to random at time.  They're always somehow on key, but he has a knack for choosing notes that seem to come out of nowhere and almost seem random, except that they are in the correct key for the song.  I wonder if he became a John Arch fan and was trying to mimmick Arch's style way back when he was in DT.  Maybe not, but I've never really heard anyone else other than those two where something like his jumped out so blatantly.

I agree with all of this.

I think Arch sounds like the impossible spawn of a Geoff Tate - Jon Anderson - Barry Gibb 3-way.

Oh yeah, and I like the new album.
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Offline Lowdz

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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #119 on: September 17, 2011, 03:57:37 AM »
Hmm. I'm not hearing the same album obviously.
I find it generic, repetitive, lacking in melody and the singer is painful to listen to. All the songs sound the same. So far I'm regretting the purchase. Obviously I didn't expect an instant hit but something to stand out and encourage further listening at least. First two listens all I got was an unrelenting wall of noise.

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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #120 on: September 17, 2011, 10:47:13 AM »
I'm really enjoying the album, it is worthy of being released on the same day as ADToE.
     

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #121 on: September 17, 2011, 10:48:50 AM »
Man, something weird is happening to me with this album. Sometimes I love it, and other times, Jon Arch's voice just completely make me want to shut it off. Weird. Never happened to me with him in Fates, but I think some of the vocal lines/delivery just come across as extremely awkward here... especially as the "new album" feel wears off.

Still great, but ADTOE is really starting to pull past it.

Offline dongringo

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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #122 on: September 17, 2011, 09:39:04 PM »
On my third listen through and I have to say I'm blown away. What an incredible album from start to finish.

As far as John Arch, I absolutely love his style and I think I can put it into words. Ever listen to any middle eastern music? I do sometimes and his phrasing reminds me of vocalists usually only found in that region. I wonder how he picked it up? I've always wondered this because he's not from that part of the world.

Anyway, fantastic album by Arch/Matheos. This is the best I've ever heard from both of them. I agree with a post made a couple pages back by bosk1. This and ADTOE very well could be my top two of the year.

Edit: Wow! 4th listen through. How can Arch sing like this after all his time off? Seems impossible. Outstanding!
« Last Edit: September 17, 2011, 11:26:11 PM by dongringo »
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Offline wolfking

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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #123 on: September 18, 2011, 04:58:25 AM »
Damn, wasn't able to pick it up today instore, so looks like I'm ordering it online.

Man, something weird is happening to me with this album. Sometimes I love it, and other times, Jon Arch's voice just completely make me want to shut it off. Weird. Never happened to me with him in Fates, but I think some of the vocal lines/delivery just come across as extremely awkward here... especially as the "new album" feel wears off.

Still great, but ADTOE is really starting to pull past it.

I know what you mean, there have actually been times where I've taken a brake from older Fates because of his voice.  His voice is amazing, but sometimes it can be a little much.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #124 on: September 20, 2011, 06:25:04 PM »
Just...what an album.  As much as I love the new DT, if not for the upcoming DT show, I would probably be spinning this album even more.  I just can't get over how good it is.
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #125 on: September 20, 2011, 07:35:39 PM »
I don't know. Both albums have been out for one week, yet I'm off this one mostly and still on ADTOE. Though that one's gonna need a break soon, too.

Offline pogoowner

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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #126 on: September 20, 2011, 11:18:51 PM »
I don't know. Both albums have been out for one week, yet I'm off this one mostly and still on ADTOE. Though that one's gonna need a break soon, too.
I've definitely listed to Sympathetic Resonance more. ADTOE got old pretty quickly. The album I'll probably end up listening to the most, though, is Heritage. There's a lot to digest, and I'm not getting sick of it at all so far.

Offline Mebert78

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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #127 on: September 21, 2011, 09:56:28 AM »
After having the album for a week now, I can say I like it a lot.  I can't say I LOVE LOVE it as much as some of you, but it's definitely a really great album.  Personally, I need a little bit of keyboards in my prog metal for atmospheric purposes, but that's just me.  Also, Arch's voice is impressive, but he seems to sings at the same tone and power in each song part, whether it's verse or chorus.  I like a little more soft and loud dynamics in a singer's voice.  But again, that's just me.  And Matheos is a beast on this album.  Love him!
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #128 on: September 21, 2011, 10:55:20 AM »
Good points.  I don't disagree with any of that.  But I still love it.  :)
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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #129 on: September 25, 2011, 12:14:08 AM »
Don't get me wrong...I love Alder era Fates more than Arch era Fates, but this new album has me thinking, "What if Fates Warning never forced Arch out?"  There's still magic in that combo.  I certainly hope John decides to make more music.
     

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #130 on: September 25, 2011, 03:14:37 AM »
After having the album for a week now, I can say I like it a lot.  I can't say I LOVE LOVE it as much as some of you, but it's definitely a really great album.  Personally, I need a little bit of keyboards in my prog metal for atmospheric purposes, but that's just me.  Also, Arch's voice is impressive, but he seems to sings at the same tone and power in each song part, whether it's verse or chorus.  I like a little more soft and loud dynamics in a singer's voice.  But again, that's just me.  And Matheos is a beast on this album.  Love him!

Man, I pretty much agree. If Derek Sherinian had jumped on this album, and Portnoy joined this band instead of AMOB, it might really start being able to contend with DT.

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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #131 on: September 26, 2011, 11:08:00 AM »
Don't get me wrong...I love Alder era Fates more than Arch era Fates, but this new album has me thinking, "What if Fates Warning never forced Arch out?"  There's still magic in that combo.  I certainly hope John decides to make more music.

Agreed. I am much more fond of the Alder-era of FW. But that said, yeah, with the A/M record...it is so good that it absolutely has me wanting more.
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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #132 on: September 29, 2011, 01:55:26 PM »
This album just keeps clicking for me.  Immediately Neurotically Wired and Stain Glass Sky clicked...lately it's been the intro to SGS, Incense and Myrrh, and Any Given Day.

32 listens and still going strong.  I'm beyond impressed.
     

Offline wolfking

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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #133 on: September 30, 2011, 08:18:37 AM »
Finally got this in the mail today!  :metal :metal :metal
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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #134 on: September 30, 2011, 03:03:32 PM »
This album was my first exposure to any of the guys who are involved with it musically.  I have 8 listens to the entire album now, and it keeps clicking for me as well.  It took me about 1 spin through 'Neurotically Wired' to get enough of a feel for John's voice to know that I wanted to hear more of this album.  This thing rocks!  Each song has great moments (tapping/shredding solo in 'On the Fence' is sweet!) and nice hooks utilizing the odd and unique method of vocal delivery.  The group feels tight and fresh and the production is very good.  I may have to get into some FW if this is what they are like.  Can any of the long term fans point a  FW newcomer in the proper direction after this?

This album rocks.  SR has proven to be far stronger at keeping my attention than ADToE.
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Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #135 on: September 30, 2011, 03:34:28 PM »
  Can any of the long term fans point a  FW newcomer in the proper direction after this?


I would recommend you start with the album Disconnected, then A pleasant shade of grey and then (Parallels and Perfect Symmetry). These are my favorites of the Ray Alder Era. Now if you want hear the old school John Arch era Fates Warning then Awaken the Guardian is the way to go. Its somewhat different then Arch/Matheos, but at the same time is very similar. But seriously, Fates Warning is one of my top 3 favorite bands in the world, right behind Rush and Dream Theater. You are in for a treat with FW.

Offline dongringo

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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #136 on: September 30, 2011, 05:52:28 PM »
I would start with Parallels and Perfect Symmetry. But that's just me.  ;)
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Offline wolfking

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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #137 on: September 30, 2011, 06:08:08 PM »
I would start with Parallels and Perfect Symmetry. But that's just me.  ;)

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Offline Jamesman42

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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #138 on: September 30, 2011, 07:00:51 PM »
What is this band like? Style, this new album...if bosk likes them it may be worth checking out.

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Re: Arch/Matheos
« Reply #139 on: September 30, 2011, 07:02:40 PM »
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.