The Survivor Thread

[energythief]

COCHRAN FUCK YEA - best possible move


My wife is so pissed, she called him every name in the book.   

[KevShmev]

That's what I said, Cochran is playing a Sandra game. "Just 3 more days..." was uttered by him at almost every tribal council, which was how Sandra played the game.
Also, it doesn't necessarily have to be strategy, but considering Cochran has survived multiple times being on the chopping block, he's clearly doing something right. Sure, he's fumbling and groveling his way through. Yes, you can say it was his tribemates who spared him every time, but he must have done something that made them want to keep him around.

Nah, it was more of a case of someone else doing something that made them NOT want to keep them around.  That is usually how under-the-radar people get far...someone else is usually giving the tribe a reason to vote them out.

I liked Cochran's move tonight, but instead of trying to apologize and saying, "I'll explain it," I'd tell them to eat shit. 

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

I truly don't believe he's going to be anymore than a tool for Upolu and once he's outlived his usefulness in getting rid of the Savaii, they'll cut him loose.  Cochran screwing Savaii, then apologizing does come off as wishy-washy.  If you're going to screw your tribe over, then jump in with both feet and tell them to fuck off.  Own it and live with any potential consequences.  He isn't capable of that, because he's SO paranoid and so much after ANYBODY'S approval.  I liked how Jim just flat out called him a coward.  Then white knight Brandon comes along and says not to talk to him like that and this is why he flipped.  Hey Brandon - kiss off.  You've got more issues than a fucking newsstand.  Nobody needs your $0.02.

[gmillerdrake]

I like the fact that he flipped, if he hadn't it would have been your 'routine' merge...blah blah blah. That move makes it way more interesting. My only issue with it was like has been mentioned....Own that move Cochran. Don't apologize for it, don't feel bad or whatever.
  If survivor history remains true, there is no way that 6 strong alliance of Coach and the gang holds strong the rest of the way. Someone or multiple people are going to begin to make thier moves as well, Cochran was just the first to do so. That move by Cochran actually peeked my interest a lot more than had they just drew stones.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

In my mind, he went from 6th on the Savaii totem pole to 7th on the Upolu totem pole.  Also, rather unfortunately, your behavior in-game has a way of following you back home.  The "traitor" label could possibly haunt him for a while.

[gmillerdrake]

In my mind, he went from 6th on the Savaii totem pole to 7th on the Upolu totem pole.  Also, rather unfortunately, your behavior in-game has a way of following you back home.  The "traitor" label could possibly haunt him for a while.

This is true. But, I don't buy that Upolu alliance will remain strong the whole way through. Somewhere..someone is going to want to make a move and Cochran will be the easy/obvious choice to include in that move as to not alert as few of people as possible in Upolu. If they do remain solid, well then you're right, once they've picked off all of Savaii Cochran will fall. But I just think there is a lot to happen in between then and now. All it takes is individual immunity to get won by the right/wrong person and it all changes.
 True Cochran will have to answer for that move, but it's not like past winners haven't pulled stunts like that before. Like I said, it made it a heck of a lot more interesting. 

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Yep.  Immunity has a way of changing people.  Look what it did to Dawn last night.  She was gung-ho to join Cochran, but once she won immunity, it changed.  Yeah, she had time to reflect, but I'm sure immunity helped.  Immunity PLUS switching would put a HUGE target on her.  Morals be damned, you're out there to win a million bucks.

[gmillerdrake]

  Morals be damned, you're out there to win a million bucks.

You can't win this show holding on to your morals. That's why I think I'd suck at it. I honestly don't think I could do some of the things these guys/gals have done to people for a million bucks. At some point in time you have to shaft someone in order to make it one more day. Even the most upright and 'moral' players who've won, still had two or three jury members that they had to face knowing they'd lied and backstabbed them.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Absolutely.  It would be REALLY tough to pull off a win in a game like this (or Big Brother) and feel 100% good about every decision I made, DESPITE knowing that the other person would've done it to me if given the chance.

[gmillerdrake]

Absolutely.  It would be REALLY tough to pull off a win in a game like this (or Big Brother) and feel 100% good about every decision I made, DESPITE knowing that the other person would've done it to me if given the chance.

That's one thing that has always cracked me up about the reactions some of the contestants give. They are so SHOCKED and AMAZED that someone could do that to them. Really? Have you not watched the show ever before? It is full of nothing but deciet. That's the name of the game. It's not Outwit, Outplay, Outlast.....it's LIE, LIE, LIE. Whoever the best liar is usually does well. It is a bonus to have some physical ability and be able to solve some mid level mind puzzles, but in the end the people who primarily win are the folk who manipulate the truth the best.
 

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Can't argue with that.  I too am somewhat amazed that people are so shocked that they got stabbed in the back.  I ask the same thing "Have you NEVER seen this show before appearing on it??"

[gmillerdrake]

Question: Hasn't past protocol been if/when an idol was played they insert a new idol into play? So I'm guessing that there will now be an additional Immunity Idol hidden about the camp with forthcoming 'clues'.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Yep.  That's usually the case.  So I'd imagine we'll have some sort of clue show up next episode.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Aha!  A deleted scene gives insight into Cochran's switch.

https://www.realityblurred.com/realitytv/archives/survivor_south_pacific/2011_Nov_03_cochran-deleted-scene

[gmillerdrake]

Cool vid. Along with deleted scenes like this and admissions here and there from cast members in interviews and the live reveal shows at the end of the season that 'editing' has a lot to do with how they are percieved, it makes me curious as to all the actual on goings we've not been privy to.
 Like last season when it wasn't revealed until the live end of season winner show that Rob had told the other two girls he had the idol. But, during the season we were like "just blindside Rob' even though they knew they couldn't. Stuff like that looks to happen ALL the time. It'd be neat if Survivor would release all the photage after the season just to comb through it and see it all.

[KevShmev]

It is never as simple as saying, "Cochran just went from 6th in one alliance to 7th in another."  Ideally, Coach's tribe would like to pick off the others and then ditch Cochran to get it down to the six of them, but it almost never works out that way.  Let's say they do starting picking them off, when it gets down to 9 is when a move has to be made.  By that time, the two left from Ozzy's tribe will be desperate, and will be willing to team back up with Cochran, and by then they should have figured out which two from Coach's tribe are at the bottom of the pecking order, so they can sell those two on going to the final five with them as opposed to being 5th and 6th place if they stick with Coach and the other.  That is the way to go. 

[setrataeso]

Yeah, the players this season have shown that they arent afraid of making moves.
Cochran's best scenario right now is to play the Rob Cesternino game. Cochran is on the side he wants to be on...for now. It's only a matter of time before he realizes he's on the bottom of Upolu as well. What Cochran needs to do is pull Dawn, and whoever he thinks will join up with him from Upolu (namely Brandon, Coach, Rick, and probably Edna) to form a new alliance, one that isn't based on tribal lines. It seems like Sophie and Albert might jump ship at some point, and Cochran could be left in the dust if he doesn't pull some people onto his side.
The hard part in determining how this season will play out is Upolu. Unlike Savaii, there doesn't appear to be a clear pecking order on their side, aside from Coach at the top and Cochran at the bottom. If Cochran can find out what the order would be, he can take the people that are 4th, 5th, and 6th and flip the script on the top players.

Im excited. This one move has had me talking more than anything in Nicaragua or Redemption Island has. Well done South Pacific!

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

I swear to God, every time Brandon opens his mouth anymore, I want to throw heavy things at my television set.  I will literally be dancing around my living room if and when he gets voted off.

[gmillerdrake]

Just got to watch this last night finally. For as promising as I thought it'd be after that 'move' by Cochran....i was kind of meh about that whole episode. It would have been more interesting had (forgot his name) actually gave Ozzy the immunity necklace. I know they would have just voted him off, but it still would have been more interesting.
  I cannot believe that tribe has allowed Coach to essentially pull the EXACT same game on them that Rob did last year. It's not as strong handed and overbearing....but he's actually doing it almost opposite. Kind, inclusive...."nothing to see here" type of game. Just keeping them all distracted long enough for him to get one step closer. Coach IMO has that game right where he wants it and has his finger on the pulse to where as soon as there is a blip in the system he's going to see it.
  Going to take a Big, deceptive move to get him out of there. Otherwise, he's your winner.

[KevShmev]

If Coach wins, I am done watching this show.

Frankly, I am tired of them bringing back players from earlier seasons now seemingly every season.  They have the huge advantage of a) knowing what to expect when it comes to dealing with the conditions, not eating, etc., and b) crafting their game play a bit better as opposed to first timers.  It's why I didn't slobber all over Rob's win last season; it was his third try, and a smart person knows by the third try how to play the game, prepare, etc. 

[gmillerdrake]

Frankly, I am tired of them bringing back players from earlier seasons now seemingly every season. 

I'm willing to bet that this aspect is really the only thing keeping their ratings at a level high enough to get the show renewed each season. Sadly, I think that CBS has developed some of the more noteworthy 'characters' through editing and what not to assure they are either loved or hated enough by the viewers for them to tune in and either root on or curse at them.
  Just think....they still have Parvati to bring back, Colby, James maybe even fighet pilot Terry. And I'd bet there will still be another attempt to allow Russel to win, even though everyone knows that'll never happen. (him winning)
 I agree with you that the injecting of former players into the game year after year is a bit boring. I'd like to see them try and re-invent the show a bit and stick with using 'first time' players each season and then maybe have a 'veteran' show every few years.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Right, by having returning players come in, I'm always more familiar with them and have a harder time caring about the new faces.  If it's ALL new faces, then I can truly discover someone amongst them to root for.  If Coach and Ozzy had not been around this season, I'd still be wishing for Brandon's immediate exit.

[gmillerdrake]

  If Coach and Ozzy had not been around this season, I'd still be wishing for Brandon's immediate exit.

They are really good at casting that 'one' player who they know is going to rile up the majority of the viewership and have you tune in just to yell and scream at him/her. And that to me is what is becoming 'stale' about the show, the fact they essentially use the same template of what they want each player or character to be, and just fill in the same positions with those thier team of psycologists and personality fishermen choose.
  I understand it and get why they stick to that formula. It works. It sells. And no matter how much I whine and complain about it and tell myself season after season that I'm not watching it again cuz it's the same thing over and over I still watch. So really I guess it's shame on me and I should STFU.

[setrataeso]

If Coach wins, I am done watching this show.

Frankly, I am tired of them bringing back players from earlier seasons now seemingly every season.  They have the huge advantage of a) knowing what to expect when it comes to dealing with the conditions, not eating, etc., and b) crafting their game play a bit better as opposed to first timers.  It's why I didn't slobber all over Rob's win last season; it was his third try, and a smart person knows by the third try how to play the game, prepare, etc. 

It was his fourth try.

[gmillerdrake]

Would have been more interesting had they decided to go ahead and vote Edna off.....better yet....even blindside Coach. All in all, pretty boring and predictable. That was a prime time for a cool, memorable move.
  Ozzy's confidence/cockiness is actually starting to make me like him more now that I used to. It'd be neat to see him run the table at Redemption and get back in. At least now that group will have to start cannabalizing each other...won't suprise me though if they just stick with original alliances and vote Cochran out to just to maintain a calm day or two. Would be neat to see something unexpected happen though.
 

[setrataeso]

Sure is nice of them to speed up the decimation of a tribe like they did. Last season it was drawn out for 4 episodes. This time they condensed it to 2.
Coach or Cochran are the only players who I can see winning at this point...maybe Albert.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Probst was sitting at TC, almost screaming at them to please make a big move, because this is boring and predictable.  He definitely tries to plant seeds at TC, but to seemingly no avail.  At this point, it seems like Coach is gonna run away with it.  Brandon and Edna won't flip on him.  It seems fairly likely that Rick is in the Coach camp.  Albert and Sophie, though they refused to flip this episode, seem most likely to flip.  Numbers will still be against them, so getting rid of Dawn (or as Brandon spelled it, "Don") and Whitney was bad news.  Shooting themselves in the foot, as it were.

I like Coach and am more a fan of him now than before.  He's always been the honorable guy who spouts off complete nonsense, but now, he appears to have abandoned some of the nonsene and has this kind of dark, brooding persona that seems to lurk just below the surface.  I kinda like it.  I am really amused at the preview that shows him wanting to now adopt the nickname Zeus.  And no, Cochran, it was Zeus' father Chronos that ate his children.  I also think they'll out Cochran on the next vote, to maintain the Upolu 6.  I really believe Cochran was solely a tool for them to remove Savaii completely from the game and nothing more.  Now that his usefulness to them has been all used up, they can discard him right along with his former tribemates.  Bye bye, weasel.

[gmillerdrake]

Probst was sitting at TC, almost screaming at them to please make a big move, because this is boring and predictable. 

Does anyone else watch the 'Ponderosa' episodes online? Even Jim and Keith were lamenting the fact that at that Trivbal in particular, more than any to that point, a move NEEDED to be made in order to change the game. Otherwise, you really are looking at Coach having a real good shot at making it to the end.

If you've ever watched the Ponderosa episodes in the past, these guys (even though it's free food/drink/mini vacation) are in a way more modest setting than the past few 5 Star resorts. I'd take it though.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

I've read about them a number of times on Reality Blurred, but I've never watched them.  I really should.

[gmillerdrake]

I've read about them a number of times on Reality Blurred, but I've never watched them.  I really should.

https://www.cbs.com/shows/survivor/video/?vs=Ponderosa

Dude, the 'Heros vs Villians' season...that Ponderosa was Hilarious. Coach, JT...that skinny Blonde I think her name was Courtney, they were COMPLETELY different people than they had been editied to be. Courtney had been presented to us in a way that she was mean or a big 'B', but she was a crack up. They started a band and recorded a couple songs while on Ponderosa, just real funny stuff. You get to see the 'uneditied' side of people..it's pretty neat. And the amount of food they eat is insane. For as big of a fan of the show as you appear to be, I guarantee you'd like it. They range anywhere from 2 to 5 minute clips of 'stuff'. 

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

You're right, I know I'd love it.  I gotta sit down and watch some of it sometime.

[KevShmev]

I haven't even thought to check out the Ponderosa clips online.  Probably because this season is boring me now.  It has become horribly predictable, and most of the people left here are playing the game about as little as the mindless sheep who followed Rob did.  And then they'll get all indignant when they fall ass backwards into the final three and have to answer the "What did you actually do worthwhile to get this far other than land in the good alliance?" question.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

And Coach will say "I played both of these people sitting next to me like a fiddle - you all saw it, you all called me out on it right in front of them, and I'm still sitting in the final 3 - that's all the reason you need to vote for me."

[gmillerdrake]

And Coach will say "I played both of these people sitting next to me like a fiddle - you all saw it, you all called me out on it right in front of them, and I'm still sitting in the final 3 - that's all the reason you need to vote for me."

Like Rob, if Coach makes it to the finals and has a shot at the million...there is no other player there at the moment that could possibly argue they've 'played' better than him. It's boggles my mind that those people are allowing Coach to run the EXACT same game that Rob did last year. It is silly actually. For them to allow him to control that game like that, they get exactly what they deserve.
  I'd like to hope that he will be blindsided just to add a bit of spice to this season, but even that'd be hard to pull off without him getting wind of it considering there are only two for sure...maybe Cochran who aren't 'sippin' coaches Koolaid.'

[ReaPsTA]

Albert/Sophie/Dawn/Cochran/Whitney needed to pull the trigger on voting out Edna.  I can see why they didn't go for Coach.  It would have upped the tension in a major way.  But at this point I don't see how Coach is going to lose unless Ozzy's plan to be a challenge monster works out (which it very well could).  He has Brandon, the Rancher, and Edna 100% behind him.  Albert and Sophie are on the outs, and I'm not sure they'll be able to turn Cochran to their side again.

The biggest problem with the plan is the alliance would have three red players and two blue players, which is fine.  But in that situation you can do something, which is more than nothing now.

I'm with you all on the casting too.  It's bad for the show to cast players like Brandon, Phillip, and Cochran.  They promote controversy and bring attention to the show, but they don't create new fans and the show's hemorrhaging the ones they do have by alienating their long-term viewers.  Bringing back the old cast members hasn't worked this season either.  Rob vs. Russell needed to happen.  A larger conflict was at work.  Coach vs. Ozzy is basically admitting they don't think they can find new players the audiences will connect with.  This is stupid.  Watching Jim, Albert, and Sophie has been the best part of the season.  I'd love to see them on an All-Star cast.  Why aren't they looking for more players like this?  And if you must cast players who can't be stars, at least cast people like Mikayla, who was genuinely likable.

And please dump Redemption Island.