Author Topic: The Survivor Thread  (Read 87123 times)

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Offline Space Invader

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #140 on: April 09, 2011, 07:22:02 PM »
The best part about this week's episode:

http://kotti.wippiespace.com/survivor/datass2.gif

I love Grant in the background like "yeah...."  :lol
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #141 on: April 10, 2011, 03:02:05 AM »
Matt showed himself to be a real dumbass.  They shouldn't have even let him go back to Redemption Island, they should have just kicked him out.

Regardless, I can see him winning this season.
How?  I mean, as long as it is limited to pure challenges, and not voting, then maybe, but he is one of the worst players of the game that I've ever seen.
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Offline Global Laziness

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #142 on: April 10, 2011, 10:40:24 AM »
Matt showed himself to be a real dumbass.  They shouldn't have even let him go back to Redemption Island, they should have just kicked him out.

Regardless, I can see him winning this season.
How?  I mean, as long as it is limited to pure challenges, and not voting, then maybe, but he is one of the worst players of the game that I've ever seen.

He has no real enemies and if he makes it through Redemption Island again I'd be willing to bet that he smartens up. As such, the people on the jury won't necessarily have a reason to dislike him and not vote for him. Plus I'd imagine he'd get some pity votes for being stuck on Redemption Island for so long and maybe one or two admiration votes for kicking so much ass in all of those do-or-die challenges. I dunno, that's just me. *shrugs*
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #143 on: April 10, 2011, 10:04:42 PM »
Unless he ends up in the finals with two people who piss everyone off, and we get another crybaby jury that is butthurt about getting outplayed, Matt has no chance of winning.  I can't imagine someone who was voted out twice being given the million by a jury.  

Offline Space Invader

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #144 on: April 11, 2011, 03:32:38 PM »
Holy shit. Season 16. Episode 13.

Erik what are you doing man?

That is all.
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Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #145 on: April 14, 2011, 02:07:18 AM »
Redemption Island - Episode 8

Oh boy.  The Robfather is now in full effect.  I'm not sure there's any aspect of his tribe he doesn't psychologically control.  Grant goes over to eat fish, then immediately comes back.  His other tribe members react with scorn.  Separate shelters, separate eating times... just wow.  This has to be one of the most well played games of Survivor ever so far.  You think Ometepe will rebel?  Zero percent chance.  Zapatera's gonna die.

The only moment that struck me as off was his speech near the beginning about this being his game.  It was oddly Russellesque, and then he followed it up with his thing about Ralph and Andrea and how Andrea wouldn't make it to the final three.  Bafflingly egotistical.

Also, the universe demands balance.  Rob will own Ometepe until Zapatera is gone, but then what?  Without an enemy, how does he make moves to stay in the game?  In the All-Star season, a lot of things broke his way that let him stay in the game.  And really, without Amber there, he never would have had a chance with that Jury.  As Russell has proven, you can play a hyper-aggressive post-merge game and make it to the final three, but you'll get no votes.  So far, it seems like Rob is genuinely thinking ahead.  In the context of his crime syndicate, he's still being as friendly and unarrogant as possible to remain likeable.  So it seems he's prepping for the next step.  Who knows what it will be though.

As a viewer, it's kind of a bummer.  The fun Boston Rob from before the merge is gone, and his darker side is coming out again.  I still like and respect him as a person in a number of ways.  I think the fact he's obviously committed to his marriage is the biggest factor.  But seeing the Robfather truly at work is a bit disquieting.  Unless you're Amber, his kids, his family, and one of his best friends, how can you possibly ever trust the guy?  And really, Lex would dispute that being one of Rob's friends helps you any with him.

From a strategic standpoint though, my respect for Rob has shot to a new level.  I think I said this somewhere else, but while I'm not sure Rob's playing the best Survivor game ever (we need to see the whole season to really gauge it, and I haven't watched many of the past seasons since I was a kid), I'd be willing to bet he's playing the highest level game ever.  He's simply seeing angles that no other player has even bothered to look for.

Other interesting sub-plot, Phillip getting noticeably smarter at the game.  He actually gets that he has to make a move against Rob, but not to do so now.  And he was absolutely bullet-proof at tribal council.  Zapatera couldn't dent him.  I think, as it always goes, he'll unravel.  But at the moment it's fascinating to watch him grow.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 02:20:44 AM by ReaPsTA »
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Offline Global Laziness

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #146 on: April 14, 2011, 02:09:59 AM »
I know setrataeso and Space Invader are worried at this becoming too predictable...three more episodes, three more Zapatera members gone. Frankly I'm enjoying this...I mean, it sucks that David was voted out but I love seeing Rob assuming complete control, it's awesome.

And yeah, I noticed Phillip suddenly smartening up too, it was strange...
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Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #147 on: April 14, 2011, 02:22:52 AM »
I know setrataeso and Space Invader are worried at this becoming too predictable...three more episodes, three more Zapatera members gone. Frankly I'm enjoying this...I mean, it sucks that David was voted out but I love seeing Rob assuming complete control, it's awesome.

I don't find it boring.  If you want to learn about human psychology, watching Boston Rob at work is arguably more useful in a real world context than a basic psych class.  Not just watching him play the game, but because he actually explains what he's doing in the confessionals and really understands the workings of his game.
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Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #148 on: April 14, 2011, 07:30:05 AM »
WOW.  Holy shit is Phillip ever entertaining.  He's like a car accident that you just CANNOT help but look at.  He's like a controlled building demolition.  Everything's falling to pieces when this guy opens his mouth, yet he seems to know exactly what he's doing.  The guy's nuts, but I don't know if this isn't just an act by Phillip.  I'm starting to feel more and more like this might be a role he's playing.  If he makes it to the final 3, I could totally see him showing up acting like a completely normal person.  That would be absolutely f*cking insane.

That said, other than Phillip's antic and grandstanding, there wasn't much surprise to how things went down vote-wise.  Ralph continues to mangle names on the cards:  "Philite".

Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #149 on: April 14, 2011, 08:37:20 AM »
I know setrataeso and Space Invader are worried at this becoming too predictable...three more episodes, three more Zapatera members gone. Frankly I'm enjoying this...I mean, it sucks that David was voted out but I love seeing Rob assuming complete control, it's awesome.

I don't find it boring.  If you want to learn about human psychology, watching Boston Rob at work is arguably more useful in a real world context than a basic psych class.  Not just watching him play the game, but because he actually explains what he's doing in the confessionals and really understands the workings of his game.

Well, it is his fourth time playing the game, so he should have figured out by now.

However, he is dominating for two main reasons:

1) his tribe is a bunch of mindless sheep who are afraid of doing anything without his permission
2) the other tribe has not played the game really at all

I mean, really, who else has actually "played the game" this season? 

And if I am one of those three remaining players from Zapatera, no way am I going down with my mouth quiet.  I would shoot my mouth off to everyone every chance I get, including at TC, about how gutless they are to let Rob boss them around like that, and ask them questions like, "Once we're gone, you know that Rob is gonna get rid of some of you, right?  You're just gonna hand him the money?"  They can pretend to not listen and laugh it off, but they will hear it.

Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #150 on: April 21, 2011, 02:26:40 AM »
Very unique episode.  Almost no strategy, mostly interpersonal drama.  And I actually found the relative lack of Boston Rob refreshing.  I'm not one of the people who hates the Rob show (in fact, I appreciate it), but a breather is still nice.

I dunno if I said it here before, but Phillip is kinda frightening, and this is why.  The whole part where he's talking about snapping and using deadly force on people was... not fun.  Creepy really.  The argument between him and Steve was weird to watch.  Not especially uncomfortable or funny, just weird.

Challenge happens.  It's a puzzle so of course Rob wins, although Steve was close.

I know during the pre-Tribal Council they showed more of Phil being crazy, which narratively was the absolute correct choice, but I really want to know how Rob got his tribe not to vote for Phil.  Maybe in the next episode.  Stealing the shorts was a nice call BTW.

And then the tribal council, just wow.  This is one of those moments where I'm reminded that Jeff Probst has to host this show or else it should be cancelled.  The way he handled the situation was sublime.  As Phil was talking, you could see the "it's getting a little too real" expression on Probst's face (previously seen during the many medical visits in HvV).  The way he talked down Phillip and Steve and got everyone feeling level headed was so masterful.  Even Boston Rob has to be impressed.  If Probst ever gambles all his money away and is blacklisted from TV for some reason, he might actually be able to be a decent therapist.

And then Julie went away, which is fine because she's boring.  After his talk with Probst, I think Phillip is back to a level where he's palatable to watch instead of being a ticking time bomb of crazy violence.

Other thought - I really really hate that Jury members are coming from RI.  They're not with the other people, destroying the point of the Jury.
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Offline YtseBitsySpider

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #151 on: April 21, 2011, 07:01:01 AM »
apperently not creepy enough to vote his Rice ass off the show.
As Rob pointed out they have some give with the numbers, they could have gotten rid of him.
Why keep him?
I don't get it.
If I'm feeling THAT uncomfortable watching him on TV I can only imagine what it's like to be in the tribe with him.
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Offline Global Laziness

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #152 on: April 21, 2011, 09:32:45 AM »
Pretty boring episode overall...uninteresting challenges, stupid and unnecessary racial drama, and a predictable outcome.

It was also pretty strange to see Julie go despite having almost no focus on her over the course of the episode.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #153 on: April 21, 2011, 11:46:50 AM »
apperently not creepy enough to vote his Rice ass off the show.
As Rob pointed out they have some give with the numbers, they could have gotten rid of him.
Why keep him?
 

Because he will be easy to defeat in the finals.  Rob knows this.  But I wonder if the rest of his tribe has figured this out, meaning once it gets down to the six (plus whatever happens with RI), Rob will have to start picking off his own tribe, and he ain't gonna take out the one person he knows doesn't have a prayer of winning at the end.  How have they not thought of this?  Are they such suckups that they have forgotten they are playing a game?

That aside, Phillip IS crazy.  The way he flipped was hilarious, but he is crazy.  And a hypocrite.

Offline YtseBitsySpider

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #154 on: April 21, 2011, 11:52:55 AM »
Im done hearing about his over inflated resume.

DONE.
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Offline setrataeso

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #155 on: April 26, 2011, 10:53:35 PM »
To counter Phillip's argument that crazy = racism, Francesca posted on her Facebook something to the extent of:

Phillip, you ARE crazy.
Signed,
A Black Woman

Francesca went out too early...
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Offline setrataeso

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #156 on: April 27, 2011, 09:41:21 PM »
This season blows...
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Setra, I think that is the best statement I have read on this forum.  Very well said.

Offline Global Laziness

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #157 on: April 27, 2011, 11:17:06 PM »
This season blows...

Woohoo, big twist! Two Zapatera members go out instead of one!
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Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #158 on: April 28, 2011, 12:45:58 AM »
Francesca went out too early...

No question.  She clearly had the potential to be a memorable player if she had more time to do anything.

Boring episode.  Rob continues to own everything and have his way.  This is fine when he gets a lot of screen time and we can gain insight into his process, but that didn't happen here.  I like when Probst was talking about his relationship with Amber and how it was his true alliance.  You could tell he was still very stoked on himself about all that.
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Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #159 on: April 28, 2011, 06:33:31 AM »
I hate to say if, but despite how masterfully Rob has ruled this game, I have my doubts he'll make it to the finals.  They'll get rid of him at some point, because they know he'd garner votes, simply based on how well he's played, and likely a little bit of sympathy, in not ever having won before (not that anyone would admit to that at Final TC).  Rob's best move is to TRY to convince everyone he's the person to take to the finals, because he had a huge hand in getting rid of all those on the jury and that they won't give him the money, simply out of spite.

Offline setrataeso

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #160 on: April 28, 2011, 03:54:56 PM »
Rob is playing a lot like Brian Heidik played in Thailand. the dominant player whom everyone was too afraid to make a move against.
Actually this season is very similar to Thailand. Weak casts. Lame challenges. Total post-merge decimation of one tribe. And both are terrible seasons.
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Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #161 on: May 12, 2011, 07:15:15 AM »
SPOILERS

Last week's immunity win by Rob was absolutely spectacular.  Unbelievable.  I was almost shouting at the TV rooting Rob on. Amazing.  I would love to hear what Phillip's argument will be for giving him the win.  I suppose it could be argued that Phillips went nutso in an orchestrated manner, such that it led Rob to jettison everybody else in the game but him, thinkng nobody would vote for Phillip.  He'd argue that his antics controlled how Rob voted, so he was actually pulling the puppet strings of the puppeteer.  Sure, nobody's going to buy that, but it IS a plausible argument to make.

This week?  Wow.  Seriously wow.  NEVER FAILS.  When they go on and on and on about how badly they need to get (insert person's name here) out, that person always goes on to kick ass in the immunity challenge.  I saw early on that there was no way in hell Ashley was losing the immunity challenge.  REALLY a bummer, because I hated to see Rob have to turn on Grant.  However, note that Probst did not read ALL of the vote cards.  One final card was left unread, allowing Rob the opportunity to tell Grant (should he re-enter the game) that the card Probst didn't read was Rob's vote for Natalie (which it obviously wasn't).  He can pin the third vote for Grant on Phillip and keep Grant on his side.  It's like Sherman's March to the sea.  Just destroy everything in your nearly unhindered march to the goal.

Also, I'm feeling like if Mike somehow manages to win Redemption and go to final 3, that he'll win.  Everybody will be pissed at Rob for masterminding their demise and it'll be all sour grapes instead of thinking "Wow, he clearly is awesome at the game of SURVIVOR, and totally deserves to win."  Maybe I'm wrong and I would LOVE to be wrong about that, but the past few seasons have shown juries to lean towards sour grapes than objectivity.

Offline setrataeso

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #162 on: May 12, 2011, 11:17:56 AM »
but the past few seasons have shown juries to lean towards sour grapes than objectivity.

WAT
Survivor has always leaned more towards sour grapes than objectivity. Borneo, Marquesas, Thailand, All Stars, Vanuatu, Guatemala, China, Fans vs Favorites, Tocantins, Samoa, and Heroes vs Villains ALL had bitter jurors. This is not something that started when Russell showed up.
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Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #163 on: May 12, 2011, 04:03:54 PM »
Hmph. It wasn't as obvious to me til the last few. Tho I didn't start watching til 2006.

Offline setrataeso

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #164 on: May 12, 2011, 04:22:27 PM »
Ever since Russell first appeared, fans have been in outrage that the game is flawed and that bitter juries are ruining Survivor.
When, in reality, this is not something new, and it only amplifies the original concept of Survivor: that you have to ask the people who you voted out to give you a million dollars.

Here is a very good article on the psychology of a Survivor jury:
http://www.funny115.com/psychologyofajury.htm
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Setra, I think that is the best statement I have read on this forum.  Very well said.

Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #165 on: May 15, 2011, 07:27:33 PM »
This finale is fucking awesome!!

Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #166 on: May 15, 2011, 09:28:11 PM »
FINALE SPOILERS







Boston Rob is more or less officially the greatest Survivor ever.  Very well done.  Rob's win in the final challenge made me about as excited as I was during the Eagles' four touchdown comeback earlier this year.  I felt like he was the John Elway of Survivor.  Clearly one of the greatest, but he just never made it to the top.  Now he's there, and I hope he retires on top just like Elway did.

It's weird.  I dunno if it's Rob or if I just haven't seen enough Survivors, but why do juries seem to be especially bitter when he makes it?  It's a game to win a million dollars.  Being a good person really has nothing to do with it.  In a sense, I get what the jury members are saying.  I'm not sure the line between Boston Rob the Survivor contestant and Rob Mariano the husband and father is as solid as he'd like to think.  And yet at least he understands it's a game, unlike most of the people who play it.

I thought Julie's speech wasn't super off the mark, but still really self-righteous and condescending.  Yeah I agree Natalie rode Rob's coattails, but she's a fairly nice person.  Yeah Rob plays Survivor almost completely amorally, but I think he knows not to raise his daughters to be like Natalie.  And while I think Phillip is... well... Phillip, I dunno.  She just seemed really mean-spirited.

Did Natalie get any votes?  I know she didn't really play much of a game but I felt bad for her.  Even Phillip got a vote from Ralph.  And given that Ralph just plain sucks I guess that says something about Phillip.

I actually felt a little bad for everyone during the Reunion show.  Rob explained how he won the game and basically broke everyone down in the process.  Natalie especially was putting together the pieces of what she had been doing on the island and her reality matrix was completely collapsing.  She got so played.

I dunno what to make of Russell.  The way he broke down the idiocy of the Zapatera tribe was so beautiful, then he started calling them idiots on national TV for no good reason.  At least he congratulated Rob unlike when he insulted Sandra.

I couldn't watch David's marriage proposal, it was too awkward.  What's the over/under on the number of weeks until they break up?  1.5?  I like the guy, I hope he comes back because he's entertaining, but a little socially off.  That speech to the jury at the end could have sunken Rob.

I thought Mike came off really well and his answer about comparing Survivor to the military was very good.  Other than Rob, he's the only person I would have liked to see a win from.  Everyone else didn't really impress me that much as a person and/or a player.

And finally, the new season.  Not thrilled at Redemption Island coming back, and not thrilled at two old cast-members coming back again.  Not even because they'll unbalance the game, because neither of them will be Boston Rob, but because (a) part of what makes Survivor interesting is the castaways acclimating to the environment, which is gone when someone is returning and (b) I absolutely LOVE the all-star seasons, and you can't really do them if all the interesting players keep coming back.

Overall, I appreciated this season for what it was.  Say what you want about Rob's opponents, but the way he utterly dominated them and played essentially a perfect game makes their strategic and tactical deficiencies irrelevant.  A lot of Survivor is luck, and Rob made sure it was never a factor.  I mean, has any contestant ever played a better game?  I haven't seen much of the show so I'm not sure, but I have a hard time imagining it.  If you want to learn about psychology and see someone execute a strategic and tactical craft to near perfection this is a great season to watch.  If you want to be entertained and riveted by drama, it was a mixed bag.  Rob was awesome at the start but after the merge his darker side came out, which is always a bit creepy to watch.  And he was the only truly compelling cast member too.  Phillip I guess is a star, I can't really argue against it.  But I react at him, unlike Rob who I actually empathize with a bit.

So, I dunno.  It was good, but I'd like to see better next time.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2011, 10:13:25 PM by ReaPsTA »
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Offline Global Laziness

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #167 on: May 15, 2011, 10:32:11 PM »
I actually felt a little bad for everyone during the Reunion show.  Rob explained how he won the game and basically broke everyone down in the process.  Natalie especially was putting together the pieces of what she had been doing on the island and her reality matrix was completely collapsing.  She got so played.

That's a really good point that I never considered.

That speech to the jury at the end could have sunken Rob.

Funny, I was thinking the exact opposite. If anything, I think it could have helped Rob.

----------

I actually have a lot of thoughts about the finale and I want to take some time to write them out. But because of something else ReaP said, I want to briefly touch on an obscure idea. It would likely never actually happen but would be a saving grace of what I perceive as a poorly-considered repeated concept for next season:

What if the two previous Survivors they brought back, rather than being "All-Stars" in the traditional sense, were players who played the game well albeit more quietly and were unfortunately voted out too early. For example: Marty from last season and David from this season. Two players who were reasonably popular for their game-playing strategies while largely staying away from the "drama" associated with traditional "All-Stars" and assuming quieter roles as supposed "Villains".

I really liked David's unusual jury speech. He's a smart guy and I would have loved to have seen him working with Boston Rob. But then, I guess that isn't saying much; supposedly he had the highest IQ of any player ever on Survivor. IQ aside, I would say that Marty was a very similar player. Seeing the two together would definitely be interesting. Unlikely, but we can dream.

I really hope this post made sense.

EDIT: Also, because I can't remember - did they actually specify whether or not the two returning players would be against each other? Maybe they'll be on the same team. Just another random thought, lots more to come.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #168 on: May 15, 2011, 10:39:11 PM »
Well, that was a predictable thrashing, but no way can I call Rob the greatest survivor ever.  A few others dominated their seasons just as much and won, but they did it on their first try.  Rob needed four tries to perfect his game and finally win.  If it takes you that long to win, how can you be the greatest survivor ever?  Not saying he didn't play a great game, because he did, but he got some incredibly lucky breaks this season: the other tribe throwing the challenge to allow Rob's team back in it early when they were on the verge of falling way behind in the numbers game, having a tribe full of clueless nitwits, etc. 

Probst calling Philip polarizing was not accurate.  How can you be polarizing when everyone hates you or is annoyed by you? 

And while much of the criticism of Natalie was accurate, she is only 19 and pretty naive, so you gotta cut her some slack.  The same can't be said for Ashley, who was utterly useless and came off as quite a beotch.

Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #169 on: May 16, 2011, 01:18:34 AM »
Funny, I was thinking the exact opposite. If anything, I think it could have helped Rob.

I felt like it was throwing Rob's dominance of everyone in their faces and making them bitter towards it.  Since apparently Natalie didn't get any votes I guess at worst it didn't matter.

Quote
[Survivor Thought]

That would be kinda cool.  I don't think anyone they bring back would be Boston Rob, but I agree that they shouldn't bring back heavyweights every season.  Unless one of them is Amanda Kimmel.  She could be in every season.

And I don't want to see anyone from Redemption Island back yet.  Wait at least a season.

Quote
EDIT: Also, because I can't remember - did they actually specify whether or not the two returning players would be against each other? Maybe they'll be on the same team. Just another random thought, lots more to come.

I'd be really really surprised if they were on the same team.

Well, that was a predictable thrashing, but no way can I call Rob the greatest survivor ever.  A few others dominated their seasons just as much and won, but they did it on their first try.  Rob needed four tries to perfect his game and finally win.  If it takes you that long to win, how can you be the greatest survivor ever?  Not saying he didn't play a great game, because he did, but he got some incredibly lucky breaks this season: the other tribe throwing the challenge to allow Rob's team back in it early when they were on the verge of falling way behind in the numbers game, having a tribe full of clueless nitwits, etc.  

Probst calling Philip polarizing was not accurate.  How can you be polarizing when everyone hates you or is annoyed by you?  

And while much of the criticism of Natalie was accurate, she is only 19 and pretty naive, so you gotta cut her some slack.  The same can't be said for Ashley, who was utterly useless and came off as quite a beotch.

I dunno why everyone calls the ending of this season predictable.  If Ashley won the final immunity challenge Rob very possibly might have been gone.

Basically, it seems that you're making two primary arguments against Rob:

 - He didn't do it on his first try

 - He caught a lot of breaks.

I guess to me the not doing it on your first try thing doesn't matter.  In All-Stars he played a truly great game and might have won if his romance with Amber didn't get to a point where it mattered to him more than the game.  He would have gotten very, very far in Heroes vs. Villains if it weren't for Tyson.  And while you can say this was his fourth game the level he took it to was unreal.  It was practically a perfect game.

Would you say Larry Bird is a greater player than Michael Jordan because his college stats are better?  I'd hope not.

As for catching a lot of breaks, everyone has to catch a lot of breaks to win.  No way Sandra would have won on HvV if anyone else ever in the game had any sense of her ability to be dangerous.  No way Amber wins if Rob didn't let her.  No way Sandra wins the first time if Lillian isn't stupid enough to vote out Johnny Fairplay.  Would Tom Westman's strategic game have been good enough to win if he was such a challenge monster?

Also, I keep saying it because I think it matters.  Rob didn't just win, he dominated.  Eight out of nine jury votes, and he only lost one to Phillip because Ralph isn't very smart.

I understand why Probst would say Phillip is polarizing.  A lot of people find him genuinely entertaining.  People frustratedly bitching on the internet make up a small percentage of Survivor fandom.

I agree with you about Natalie.  I thought what Julie said to her was just uncalled for in how mean it was.  Judging her game-play for what it was, it was terrible.  But yeah, she's still 19.  Ashley on the other hand I didn't like.  Parvati might be the mistress of evil, but I at least like her.  Ashley was just blech.

I think what we learned from this season is that the age limit needs to go back up.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2011, 08:57:36 AM by ReaPsTA »
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Offline Global Laziness

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #170 on: May 16, 2011, 01:30:40 AM »
I don't want to see anyone from Redemption Island back yet.  Wait at least a season.

Until this past fall, I hadn't watched Survivor in five and a half years, having watched the first eight seasons as a child and then stopping. As such, I don't remember much about them. When setrataeso got me watching again in the fall, I watched seasons 21 and 22, and have watched most of seasons 1 and 18 online as well.

One of the main reasons I mentioned Marty and David was because they're the most defined and freshest characters in my mind at this point that fit the bill in that scenario. I was just trying to fill in the blanks creatively.
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Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #171 on: May 16, 2011, 01:31:53 AM »
I don't want to see anyone from Redemption Island back yet.  Wait at least a season.

Until this past fall, I hadn't watched Survivor in five and a half years, having watched the first eight seasons as a child and then stopping. As such, I don't remember much about them. When setrataeso got me watching again in the fall, I watched seasons 21 and 22, and have watched most of seasons 1 and 18 online as well.

One of the main reasons I mentioned Marty and David was because they're the most defined and freshest characters in my mind at this point that fit the bill in that scenario. I was just trying to fill in the blanks creatively.

Well, with David, look at it this way, once his fiancee breaks up with him in a few months, he'll have the fire to really tear through Survivor 24 with a vengeance.  Now that will be television!
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #172 on: May 16, 2011, 08:39:48 AM »
Reap, I called the ending a predictable thrashing, because once the final three was solidified, Rob winning was a foregone conclusion.  I even texted a girlfriend who also watches the show, "This is gonna be a thrashing," before the final TC began.

Yes, Rob played a near-perfect game, but so did past winners like Brian, (fireman) Tom and Yul.  And those guys all won while playing a near-perfect their first time out, which does make a difference, as they were playing with contestants who were all on the same playing experience level.  If you don't think having played before doesn't give Rob or anyone else returning a HUGE advantage, well, we'll just have to agree to disagree.  Your Bird/Jordan analogy really is a bizarre comparison, unless you are calling Rob's first three seasons the minor leagues/college ball. :P

Also, Rob lost All-Stars because he pissed everyone off, not because he cared more about Amber.

Saying he would have gotten further in H vs V if not for Tyson, there is no way of knowing that.  And if Rob is so damn smart and can read what others are always going to do, then he should have known what Tyson was going to do, right? ;)  Let's face it, Rob benefited greatly by having a tribe full of nitwits this season.  No one else even tried to play the game!  No one.  You can say it is because Rob controlled them, but players who actually had strategy and played the game wouldn't have let themselves get bossed around like those nitwits all did.  Flip Russell and Rob's spots in this game, and Rob most likely would have been the one going home early, not Russell.  Granted, Russell doesn't have the social skills to have taken full advantage of a weak tribe to the extent that Rob did (he might have gotten himself to the finals again, but would have irked everyone in doing it, and lost again), but regardless, Rob likely wouldn't have lasted long with that tribe either.

Really, I am not trying to take anything away from Rob.  He dominated.  He won.  Congrats to him.  But calling him the greatest survivor ever is just a huge stretch, IMO.  

And when I said that Philip was not polarizing because everyone hated him, I meant everyone on the show.  Notice that no one had a nice thing to say about him at the reunion.  Rob sorta tried to defend him, but even that came across as pretty hollow.  And when Philip gave his BS about playing with integrity and how he can be proud of himself, something that usually elicits claps from the crowd, he got nothing but laughter from both the players and the crowd, as pointed out by Probst.


Offline Global Laziness

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #173 on: May 16, 2011, 11:26:31 AM »
Being Thorough: My thoughts on the Survivor finale

Part One - Intro/Five People Remaining
  • It was nice to see the full opening credits again. Shame they cut it for so much of the season.
  • I really liked the design of the Redemption Island arena. It's architecturally pleasing and was a nice addition to this season.
  • The final Redemption Island dual is simple but pretty cool. Definitely a step up from a lot of the disappointing ones we've seen this season.
  • It's official. Jeff included the phrase "one shot" in every single one of his Redemption Island dual preambles.
  • Andrea's comments about being in a stacked matchup were pretty funny, but her coming back was probably the least interesting thing that could have happened. I was disappointed to see the three other guys go.
  • It's weird how after having almost no personality for the entire season, Ashley actually became a character in Wednesday's episode and in the finals. It would be like if Purple Kelly from last season suddenly started talking for some reason.
  • The immunity challenge was really stupid. Yay for counting!
  • Ashley wins immunity again? Man, this just keeps getting lamer and lamer.
  • Unlike the other players, Rob doesn't have a title beside his name (ex: student, formal federal agent?, etc.). I wonder why.
  • It's strange to see Phillip taking more of a back seat in Wednesday's episode and in the finale. It's also odd seeing him as Rob's right hand man rather than Grant.
  • Originally I was surprised that no one was talking about the hidden immunity idol, but based on some of things that Natalie and Ashley said later, they may have just cut that out for suspense.
  • I was actually expecting Natalie to pull a Fabio and start kicking ass in the finale. If she had chosen to backstab Rob, she would have been almost assured of victory.
  • Rob took a pretty big risk in relying entirely on Natalie. It was good of him to play the idol.
  • Man, was it ever funny to see how pissed off Andrea was when Rob played the idol. Obviously it didn't matter, but still.

Part Two - Four People Remaining
  • The last immunity challenge was pretty kickass. It's a pity that budget cuts robbed us of more challenges like this one.
  • Ashley following Rob around for the whole challenge was pretty hacks. I would have been really pissed if she managed to win.
  • Natalie has been doing really poorly at challenges lately. The fact that she doesn't have the mind to figure them out nicely parallels the fact that she doesn't really have a mind for the game of Survivor either. Her later quote, "I would rather lose this game than lose a friend in Ashley," is pretty good proof of that.
  • I loved Rob's celebration. It may have been early, but he was definitely celebrating having finally won the million dollars at this point.
  • Seeing Andrea all cleaned up on the jury for the first time was a real disappointment. She lost all of her jungle hotness.
  • Phillip is actually sort of likeable when he isn't so crazy. His comment about never having won any challenges was pretty funny.
  • Natalie's obviously pretty upset about voting Ashley out, and I couldn't help but feel a bit sad for her, too. But after 38 days on the island, it was really the only substantial thing that she did.
  • I wonder if they selected 16 sheep intentionally to guarantee Rob or Russell a victory.

Part Three - Three People Remaining
  • Even the merged tribe is named after an inside joke with Rob and Amber. This whole game is Rob Rob Rob.
  • Phillip's confessional about having a relationship with someone who has been dead since 1870 was pretty amusing. So was the burning of his disgusting underpants.
  • I was disappointed that there was no walk through the wilderness to reflect on the players voted out before them. I always felt that was a nice touch. Have they ever not done that before?

Part Four - Final Tribal Council
  • Natalie's opening argument was phenomenally weak.
  • Ralph is wearing a very Russell-esque fedora.
  • I love how confident Phillip is in what he says. I can't believe how he can just keep talking at every Tribal Council despite the jury members constantly facepalming noticeably.
  • Rob, conversely, has a fantastic opening argument.
  • Andrea, to Phillip: "You...are weird." Awesome.
  • This whole Tribal Council was a real shitfest on Phillip and Natalie. I was surprised at how vocal people were in their dislike of Natalie.
  • Ralph, to Phillip: "Do you like me?" Me: "...the fuck?"
  • There's a strange theme running through this final Tribal Council: The notion of the jury questioning who the finalists really were.
  • I don't know what the hell Phillip thought he was doing insulting the jury members back.
  • Mike was a very respectful and respectable jury member. It was a nice change.
  • I wrote down "'a shameful, sorry man' - that was so unexpected and so uncalled for". Unfortunately I no longer remember who said this or what it was about.
  • Watching David constantly laughing was pretty funny. His speech to the jury ("And now for something completely different" - solid reference) was phenomenal. His comments really made me wish we'd seen more of him this season and I sincerely hope that he returns to Survivor. What a great person.
  • By this point, I was starting to wonder if Rob would win with a unanimous vote. I thought it was unlikely but definitely possible. Has that ever happened before on Survivor?
  • Don't the finalists usually get closing remarks to the jury as well? They didn't show that this time.
  • Phillip's little speech must have really pumped up Ralph's ego to secure a vote from him. So much for unanimity. At least Ralph gave us one last laugh with his vote for "Phile".

Part Five - Reunion
  • It's always strange seeing how different people look at the reunions. Natalie seems to have gained some weight, Matt pulled a Fabio with his haircut, and Ralph's beard reminds me of Kerry King.
  • It must have been a tough feeling for Natalie sitting there like that (and even taking a direct question from Jeff) and knowing that she won't win.
  • Even though it was just Ralph, it was kind of funny that there was one person who felt that Phillip deserved a million dollars for how he played.
  • Natalie actually seemed pretty nervous. She must have been struggling with the live TV experience.
  • The whole exchange about Grant not returning Rob's calls was pretty awkward. I was really surprised at how bitter Grant was. Rob even admitted in a confession last episode about how hard it was for him to make that decision. I really figured that Grant would have understood.
  • Jeff's comment about how so many people dislike his opinions was rather odd.
  • Rob may have played a great game, but it definitely wasn't perfect. If he was playing for the first time, it would have been pretty perfect. But there were several instances in which he could have and probably should have been voted out. I'm really starting to believe in my sheep theory: It was a season of Rob vs. Russell designed to allow one of them to win by casting some incredibly stupid players. Yeah, not everyone sucked, and the season pre-merger was pretty interesting. But even though I was cheering for Rob for most of the game, after Matt was blindsided again, the rest of the season really sucked. I mean, last season wasn't great, but I still felt good when Fabio won. Sure, it was Rob, one of the people I was cheering for, who won, but on the whole, this season has left me feeling extremely unsatisfied.
  • Jeff really played up "The Mystery of Phillip" during this reunion. You know what would be interesting? If he was an incredible actor hired by the Survivor producers to distract from the sheep-like nature of the other players and to make the season seem like less of a setup for Rob or Russell to win. </conspiracytheory>
  • I was also really surprised at Russell's bitterness, particularly at Steve. It seemed awfully over the top. (Disclaimer: I really know nothing about Russell because I didn't see seasons 19 or 20.)
  • Russell definitely should have stuck to his words on the island and said "toss my phone number". I don't care if I've only seen him once, a fourth season would be too much. He should not come back.
  • It was nice to see Phillip apologize to Steve.
  • Oh man, I was pissing myself laughing at Phillip's army picture.
  • So after all this, Phillip turned out to be a former federal agent after all. So why the question mark? What it effectively means is that, conspiracy theories and Phillip's behaviour aside, the Survivor producers altered their viewers' opinions - probably substantially - by adding that little question mark after "formal federal agent". Did it affect the game? No. But it misled the viewers to a certain degree, which to me detracts from a program that is billed as reality TV. Yeah, it probably helped boost ratings to some extent (probably only slightly, but ratings are ratings) but I ultimately just end up doubting the show's masterminds, which I shouldn't have to.
  • I'm surprised that Rob won the fan favourite award. I really thought that an influx of pity votes would have ensured a victory for Matt. Jeff's comment about the $100,000 being a shopping spree for Amber was really stupid and immature.
  • David's comments about his relationship were strange and rather awkward. I definitely was not expecting a proposal to come from that. I also definitely thought she was going to say no. Her face, her words, her entire demeanour - it all seemed to point towards no. Ah well, good for them.
  • So...next season is going to be exactly the same as last season? How lame. Besides the highly unlikely scenario I outlined a few posts back, does anyone have any thoughts as to who the two returning players might be? Anyone heard any rumours? Oh man, can you imagine all the fans ragequitting on Survivor if Russell came back next season to try again? Obviously it would never happen in a million years, but it'd still be funny in a horrendous kind of way.
  • Maybe Redemption Island 2 is being done so that, when one of the two returning players doesn't win, people will be more likely to dismiss the sheep theory. </moreconspiracytheories>

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Fin.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Survivor Thread
« Reply #174 on: May 16, 2011, 12:02:25 PM »
Grant didn't strike me as bitter or angry.  He just realized what a dick Rob is once he saw the show on television.  Rob said that Grant stopped calling him back and responding to his texts by the 3rd or 4th episode.  Odds are, Grant probably didn't take too kindly to Rob's constant referrals to the rest of his tribes as idiots, morons, etc.  I'm sure Grant ultimately understood Rob's decision to vote him out, but Rob's lack of regard for him and everyone else cams across pretty clear on TV, so why would he want to be friends with him?  Even last night, Rob was like, "Now I have to decide which one of these three idiots to vote off."