Author Topic: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate  (Read 9061 times)

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Offline Ħ

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Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« on: November 01, 2010, 03:12:55 PM »
Yes, yes, I know that pretty much every thread devolves into this topic, but this is specifically directed toward this interesting "mock trial" between two strong proponents of each side.

Here's part one, out of fifteen parts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5hOza8GTqk

I'm only up to part 7...so far it's pretty good.  Both sides present very interesting arguments.  The ultimate "verdict" from the audience is that Christianity wins, but keep in mind that the playing field is a church.

From what I can tell so far....the Christian side seeks to prove a few several tenets about Christianity, such as the need for a creator and the historicity of the resurrection of Jesus, and based on these "truths," concludes that since these abnormalities are true, it is no problem that other Christian abnormalities, which cannot be proven, are also true.

The Atheist side, on the other hand, focuses on the aspects of Christianity that can be refuted by modern science, and states that since so many things can be refuted, when something historically difficult to refute such as the resurrection comes along, it's no problem to dismiss it.

It's quite long, but well-timed and well-structured...

In the end...I think that both sides present strong evidence intermingled with weak evidence...For example, I do feel that the Christian claim that existence of absolute morals demands a God is sort of ill-founded.

What say y'all?
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline GuineaPig

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2010, 03:14:52 PM »
I'd say that to claim there is a set of absolute morals is unfounded.

I guess I'll watch it though, and comment on it.  

EDIT:  Also, I'm skeptical right from the start on the topic.  "Where does the evidence point?"  There's no evidence for atheism.  You can't prove there isn't a god or gods.  You could analyze individual things in the Bible and judge their veracity, but whether or not they're true or false or unprovable is not evidence towards there being no gods.
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Offline Ħ

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2010, 03:20:14 PM »
Also, I'm skeptical right from the start on the topic.  "Where does the evidence point?"  There's no evidence for atheism.  You can't prove there isn't a god or gods.  You could analyze individual things in the Bible and judge their veracity, but whether or not they're true or false or unprovable is not evidence towards there being no gods.

Actually, that comes up.  So keep watching!  :tup
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline GuineaPig

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2010, 03:28:12 PM »
Right off the bat there's a bit of a strawman; ironically when he says he will not attack any strawmen.  Atheism does not entail a gnostic denial of gods.  

Also, he then says that atheists believe the universe has been here forever.  wut


Another sort of false assumption is that the default status of the universe is non-existence.  I don't understand why people think that. 

Also, just because we can only trace the history of our universe until shortly after the Big Bang doesn't mean that something could not have existed before.  Some argue that the most likely situation is a cycle of expansions/contractions. 

Oh good, I knew there was going to be a point where someone starts bringing out big numbers as "proof."  It's only if you view our universe with our place in it as a logical end-point that the number becomes vast.  No-one looks at a beach and thinks "The odds of all these grains of sand coming together to form this specific beach is so vast, it must've been formed by some sort of beach god!" 
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 03:34:30 PM by GuineaPig »
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Offline Ħ

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2010, 03:35:39 PM »
Theism -- there is a god
Atheism -- there is no god
Agnosticism -- we cannot know whether or not there is a god

This is not Agnosticism vs Christianity...it's Atheism.
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline GuineaPig

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2010, 03:38:11 PM »
Theism -- there is a god
Atheism -- there is no god
Agnosticism -- we cannot know whether or not there is a god

This is not Agnosticism vs Christianity...it's Atheism.

I think we can't know whether there is a god or not.  However, I don't believe in gods, so I am an atheist.  To claim that all theists have a 100% pure belief in whatever god/gods they believe in is as silly as claiming all atheists have a pure conviction gods don't exist. 

Atheism literally means "without gods".  Babies are atheists.  Dolphins, presumably, are atheists.  A lot of agnostics (if they don't believe in gods) are atheists.
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Offline GuineaPig

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2010, 03:47:58 PM »
I'm continuing to comment here as the video goes on.  First of all, I find it hilarious that he says equality is universal, absolute belief; has the guy never cracked open a history book?  Like, ever?

Secondly, the whole "tomb is empty" thing presupposes a belief in the Bible etc.  Not really much to say on that argument.

Thirdly, the argument "Why would people believe it if it wasn't true?" is not a good argument, simply because it could be extended to every single religion or belief system ever invented. 

I'll note that basing a sort of argument around the resurrection is going to be tough simply because any argument for or against is going to be mired in fundamental uncertainty.  It'll be really convincing to Christians and not at all convincing to atheists.
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Offline Ħ

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2010, 03:57:52 PM »
Yes, his latter points are very emotional and not verifiable.

And on this point:
Quote
I'll note that basing a sort of argument around the resurrection is going to be tough simply because any argument for or against is going to be mired in fundamental uncertainty.  It'll be really convincing to Christians and not at all convincing to atheists.

I agree with you...Christians will say "It is an event which proves the deity of Christ, and therefore we should follow the scriptures that Christ endorses," while an Atheist would say "Well...it's just one thing we don't have irrefutable evidence for.  While we can't necessarily disprove this event, there are enough events that we can disprove, so there is probably a logical explanation somewhere."
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline GuineaPig

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2010, 03:59:43 PM »
I'm somewhat disappointed the atheist guy brought up Hitler first in his list of different types of Christians.

I also think his whole "Jesus in space" tangent is a bit stupid.  I don't remember the verse myself, but I don't think you can take a literal approach to everything in the Bible, especially metaphors  :rollin


Continuing, I think the guy is spending too much time on going through various things in the Bible.  It would make sense if he was arguing whether or not the Bible is 100% too.  I don't think that showing how the Bible is wrong on a number of scientific or historical facts proves it isn't true; it just shows that a literal interpretation of the Bible is inconsistent with our current scientific and historical perception of reality.  It's not an argument for atheism, it's an argument against biblical literalism.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 04:06:09 PM by GuineaPig »
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Offline Ħ

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2010, 04:03:59 PM »
I'm somewhat disappointed the atheist guy brought up Hitler first in his list of different types of Christians.

I also think his whole "Jesus in space" tangent is a bit stupid.  I don't remember the verse myself, but I don't think you can take a literal approach to everything in the Bible, especially metaphors  :rollin
The Atheist guy does seem to be a little unstructured in his argument.  I like how the Christian guy basically has bullet points, but the Atheist guy is sort of all over the map.

I actually have a type of "shell theory" of the universe that I came up with as I was falling asleep last night.  I'm not an astrologist by any means, but I want to ask one of my professors if this is possible.  Basically...outer space is a sphere, just like the earth is.  Once you hit the "edge of the universe," you enter a new "shell," which is, in turn, another sphere.
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline GuineaPig

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2010, 04:08:37 PM »
I'm somewhat disappointed the atheist guy brought up Hitler first in his list of different types of Christians.

I also think his whole "Jesus in space" tangent is a bit stupid.  I don't remember the verse myself, but I don't think you can take a literal approach to everything in the Bible, especially metaphors  :rollin
The Atheist guy does seem to be a little unstructured in his argument.  I like how the Christian guy basically has bullet points, but the Atheist guy is sort of all over the map.

I actually have a type of "shell theory" of the universe that I came up with as I was falling asleep last night.  I'm not an astrologist by any means, but I want to ask one of my professors if this is possible.  Basically...outer space is a sphere, just like the earth is.  Once you hit the "edge of the universe," you enter a new "shell," which is, in turn, another sphere.

It's more or less impossible to say.  It's hard to say where the universe starts or ends; if you can't measure it, if you can't get out of it, how can it be anything but infinite?  Considering the mere existence of space and time requires matter, how do we not know that our plane or sphere of space and time is one of many? 

You could be right.  We have no idea.  It's certainly an existing scientific theory that there are a number of "ripple" universes.
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Offline GuineaPig

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2010, 04:19:48 PM »
Craig's right in that Zindler's speech could've been delivered by any non-Christian.  However, his definitions are still way off: he called deists "people who believe in God but are not Christians".  :rollin

Once again, he's continuing to view humans as the logical end-point.  I think that's a poor assumption.
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Offline Ħ

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2010, 04:22:44 PM »
Once again, he's continuing to view humans as the logical end-point.  I think that's a poor assumption.

Who are you referring to?  Because I feel that both of them do that to an extent.
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline GuineaPig

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2010, 04:29:59 PM »
Once again, he's continuing to view humans as the logical end-point.  I think that's a poor assumption.

Who are you referring to?  Because I feel that both of them do that to an extent.

What I mean is that if you look back from where we are, you say "Wow, the odds of us humans coming to be as a species is incredibly low.  There must be a god."  The odds of humans coming to be are low, but we only ascribe significance to that because we are humans.  

When you get dealt a five-card hand in poker and you get a royal flush, you would probably freak out.  You'd likely think the deck was rigged somehow, seeing as how the odds of you being dealt a royal flush are so astronomically low.

It's the same situation as above.  You don't ascribe design to a poker hand where you've got 8 high, even though the odds of you getting that specific hand were as low as you getting a royal flush.  
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Offline Ħ

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2010, 04:39:46 PM »
Once again, he's continuing to view humans as the logical end-point.  I think that's a poor assumption.

Who are you referring to?  Because I feel that both of them do that to an extent.

What I mean is that if you look back from where we are, you say "Wow, the odds of us humans coming to be as a species is incredibly low.  There must be a god."  The odds of humans coming to be are low, but we only ascribe significance to that because we are humans.  

When you get dealt a five-card hand in poker and you get a royal flush, you would probably freak out.  You'd likely think the deck was rigged somehow, seeing as how the odds of you being dealt a royal flush are so astronomically low.

It's the same situation as above.  You don't ascribe design to a poker hand where you've got 8 high, even though the odds of you getting that specific hand were as low as you getting a royal flush.  

Oh, I see.  I think Craig was saying that in order for that process to reach the development of humanity (however inevitable it is) was unlikely in the time span of the solar system's life.

The back-and-forth debate ends at part 11.  I'm going to get back to this later.

I don't think the Atheist debater is really that good...they could have picked someone else.  Heck, I could've done a better job at supporting his position.  He sets himself up constantly.

I think that Craig presented a well-organized argument--however, I do feel that he failed to acknowledge many points, such as the anti-Christian scientific evidence.  He was also much more charismatic, and it is definitely difficult to see past that.

I'm thinking about going over it again, and creating a list.  If I do, I'll be sure to post it.  :tup
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline GuineaPig

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2010, 04:47:36 PM »
I stopped at the end of part 9.  It's not a very good debate, with two not very good debaters (albeit I agree that Craig is superior). 

Also, really I feel that it's not really a necessary debate.  People can believe whatever they want.  I don't think atheists should be attempting to convince other people to join them in the tent of non-belief.  As long as I feel I'm not persecuted and separation of church and state remains firmly in place (which in Canada, is pretty secure) atheism isn't all that important to me.
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Offline Ħ

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2010, 05:00:35 PM »
I agree--it was more of a Christianity vs. Anti-Christianity debate.  The Atheist position really didn't build up it's own position at all, as opposed to (unnecessarily) spending time on attacking Christianity (including the morals of Christianity, which is somewhat hypocritical).  I mean, the whole minute-long assault on the authenticity of Daniel was a waste!  What does that prove?

Anyway, I just get sick of all the other "youtube debates" with guys that focus more on dissing the other's intelligence, and rely on breaking down straw mans.  For example, have you seen the user "patcondell"?  Gets a lot of attention, and even though some of his points are valid, he creates such a hostile environment...

Even on these forums, things get brutal.  It's encouraging to see a modern civilized discourse.
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline orcus116

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2010, 09:01:15 PM »
Well here's a very civilized video from the atheists viewpoint. As a person who is into more objective and logical reasoning it articulates my thoughts quite well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNDZb0KtJDk&feature=player_embedded

Offline Philawallafox

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2010, 09:19:55 PM »
That 'Big bang' argument argument sounds familiar...

Offline Ħ

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2010, 12:06:31 AM »
Well here's a very civilized video from the atheists viewpoint. As a person who is into more objective and logical reasoning it articulates my thoughts quite well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNDZb0KtJDk&feature=player_embedded

It's just because British guys sound smarter.   :P

By the way, he says that the default position we are born with is "a lack of belief in gods."  I would disagree, and say that we are born with the internal witness of a god, akin to self-consciousness or our sensory perceptions.  In fact, you don't meet any Atheist children--they only turn away from the concept of God once presented with Atheist influences.
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline In The Name Of Rudess

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2010, 01:45:59 AM »
Frankly, I don't understand why atheists and Christians still have debates. The discussion is already doomed the minute they reach Christian dogmas. The scientist will give logical, sound arguments as to why it's impossible for this and that to be true, but the Christian will maintain his/her view because "It's just true. It's in the bible.". Then the discussion will usually meander into a debate about scriptural interpretation.

Dogma and reason fundamentally oppose each other. As religion remains dogmatic, it will always come into conflict with science. Trying to discuss a subject when one side relies on dogmatic thinking and the other on logic is pointless. It's impossible to reach an agreement.

Offline Ħ

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2010, 02:01:06 AM »
Obviously a discussion of morality is going to be silly between the two--they appeal to two different sources.

But this debate is particularly about which accounts for the evidence the best.  Obviously, both do account for the evidence.  In fact, I could make something up, like a bunch of aliens wrote the gospels, and are performing an experiment, and it could account for the evidence.  But the debate is on which is the most probable. 

For example, based on the circumstances in which we live, in an organized, structured universe programmed by the laws of physics, and the fact that humans are set apart from other creatures due to our reasoning powers, is better accounted for by the existence of a creator than the nonexistence of a creator.  Of course, you can get each one to work, and find explanations for why things are the way they are no matter which one you choose.  The question is, which is a more probable explanation for the reason why things are the way they are?

The existence of a creator fits much more snugly with reality than the nonexistence of a creator.  It's not a matter of a step-by-step proof of it.  Obviously, we have yet to see a universally-accepted argument for either side.  It is simply a matter of recognizing what is more plausible given the information we have.
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline In The Name Of Rudess

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2010, 02:18:10 AM »
Okay, but in this debate the Christians still use their Truths and the atheists still use science to reach their explanation. So I think my argument still stands.

The goal of a debate is always to reach an agreement. They can't reach an agreement by using their own set of arguments, like they do in this debate. So then perhaps this shouldn't have been called a debate, but just 2 sides giving their own explanation.

Offline Ħ

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2010, 02:25:54 AM »
 ???

They don't use Christian theology at all.  Even when the issue of Biblical inerrency came up, the debater agreed to suspend it to conduct a fair argument.
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline ack44

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2010, 03:01:10 AM »
I don't think atheists should be attempting to convince other people to join them in the tent of non-belief. 

 This makes much more sense than the agendas that many mainstream atheists seem to have. It's as if they've incorporated religion into their non-belief and made a new belief system of their own. If there's no god then there's no reason not to believe in god.

wtf is the internet?

Offline Nigerius Rex

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2010, 03:19:19 AM »
Frankly, I don't understand why atheists and Christians still have debates. The discussion is already doomed the minute they reach Christian dogmas. The scientist will give logical, sound arguments as to why it's impossible for this and that to be true, but the Christian will maintain his/her view because "It's just true. It's in the bible.". Then the discussion will usually meander into a debate about scriptural interpretation.

Dogma and reason fundamentally oppose each other. As religion remains dogmatic, it will always come into conflict with science. Trying to discuss a subject when one side relies on dogmatic thinking and the other on logic is pointless. It's impossible to reach an agreement.

That may be true of some Christians, but I know a large number who could adequately defend their faith using logic and reason. To be entirely honest, you now are doing what you may accuse and despise so many Christians of doing which is blankly applying a label and stereotype to an entire group which is unfair and insulting.

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2010, 03:21:26 AM »
I don't think atheists should be attempting to convince other people to join them in the tent of non-belief. 

 This makes much more sense than the agendas that many mainstream atheists seem to have. It's as if they've incorporated religion into their non-belief and made a new belief system of their own. If there's no god then there's no reason not to believe in god.

I totally agree.  Atheism is now being spelled with a capital "A."  It's unfortunate because many, many atheists are in disagreement, save on a single issue.

I predict that the fusion of Atheism and Christianity, two polar opposites, merges into Roman Catholicism.  The official Catholic position is an allegorical, metaphorical interpretation of scripture, and that allows for evolution and other secularly acceptable things like that.  It also holds a strong political grip on most every nation in the world.  I would not be surprised if this heated debate exploded into a worldwide Catholic revival, crushing both hard-nosed skeptical atheists and Christian fundamentalists alike.
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline GuineaPig

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2010, 04:19:03 AM »
Well here's a very civilized video from the atheists viewpoint. As a person who is into more objective and logical reasoning it articulates my thoughts quite well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNDZb0KtJDk&feature=player_embedded

It's just because British guys sound smarter.   :P

By the way, he says that the default position we are born with is "a lack of belief in gods."  I would disagree, and say that we are born with the internal witness of a god, akin to self-consciousness or our sensory perceptions.  In fact, you don't meet any Atheist children--they only turn away from the concept of God once presented with Atheist influences.

Babies lack the cognitive capacity to form positive beliefs; hence, they are atheists.

And you do meet lots of atheist children.  They're the ones whose parents don't raise them religious.  I was an atheist child.

Not that I think that what we believe as children is a good argument for or against theism.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2010, 04:27:06 AM by GuineaPig »
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Offline Ħ

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2010, 04:50:57 AM »
Fine then.  I guess neither of us have statistics to back us up.  We just have personal experience.
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline In The Name Of Rudess

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2010, 06:06:11 AM »
That may be true of some Christians, but I know a large number who could adequately defend their faith using logic and reason. To be entirely honest, you now are doing what you may accuse and despise so many Christians of doing which is blankly applying a label and stereotype to an entire group which is unfair and insulting.

I'm not exactly sure where I said I "despise" the behaviour of Christians, but okay then. I believe you are the one labeling me.

You said this: "defend their faith using logic". Faith literally means "trusting/believing in God". So in order to defend your faith using logic you would have to prove with logic that God exists. Which is impossible.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2010, 06:33:35 AM by In The Name Of Rudess »

Offline Tick

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2010, 07:02:15 AM »
I believe in God and have no interest in debating an Atheist who will just mock anything I would possibly say. Since a belief in God is based on faith and not tangible evidence, you can't and won't win an argument with an Atheist. You will just aggravate and frustrate yourself to the point you wonder why you were stupid enough to engage in such a conversation.
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Offline Seventh Son

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #31 on: November 02, 2010, 07:06:55 AM »
I believe in God and have no interest in debating an Atheist who will just mock anything I would possibly say. Since a belief in God is based on faith and not tangible evidence, you can't and won't win an argument with an Atheist. You will just aggravate and frustrate yourself to the point you wonder why you were stupid enough to engage in such a conversation.
:tick2:
Not all atheists resort to mockery you know.
Every time someone brings up "Never Enough", the terrorists win.

Offline In The Name Of Rudess

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #32 on: November 02, 2010, 07:07:52 AM »
I believe in God and have no interest in debating an Atheist who will just mock anything I would possibly say. Since a belief in God is based on faith and not tangible evidence, you can't and won't win an argument with an Atheist. You will just aggravate and frustrate yourself to the point you wonder why you were stupid enough to engage in such a conversation.
:tick2:

Indeed. That was my original point in this thread.

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #33 on: November 02, 2010, 07:11:11 AM »
I believe in God and have no interest in debating an Atheist who will just mock anything I would possibly say. Since a belief in God is based on faith and not tangible evidence, you can't and won't win an argument with an Atheist. You will just aggravate and frustrate yourself to the point you wonder why you were stupid enough to engage in such a conversation.
:tick2:
Not all atheists resort to mockery you know.
I'm sure some won't, but I know from past experience, its a losing proposition to enter into. At least for me anyway. :tick2:
Yup. Tick is dead on.  She's not your type.  Move on.   Tick is Obi Wan Kenobi


Offline Seventh Son

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Re: Atheism vs. Christianity: 2008 debate
« Reply #34 on: November 02, 2010, 07:13:23 AM »
I believe in God and have no interest in debating an Atheist who will just mock anything I would possibly say. Since a belief in God is based on faith and not tangible evidence, you can't and won't win an argument with an Atheist. You will just aggravate and frustrate yourself to the point you wonder why you were stupid enough to engage in such a conversation.
:tick2:
Not all atheists resort to mockery you know.
I'm sure some won't, but I know from past experience, its a losing proposition to enter into. At least for me anyway. :tick2:
I'm not an atheist myself, but I feel similarly towards Christianity myself. That being said, I've met a number of really nice people on the internet that call themselves Christians, but nobody like that irl.
Every time someone brings up "Never Enough", the terrorists win.