B-Sides Appreciation Thread

[Bargey]

Raise The Knife is a top 10 DT song for mine, absolutely magic. Love the Self Serving Abortion section in particular. Eve is pretty cool. Burning My Soul, Hollow Years & Take Away My Pain off FII Demos are comprehensively better than the studio album, dunno if they count as a B-Side though. And does ACOS count?

[tri.ad]

No, ACOS has been officially released on an EP, so it's not a B-side.

[Ħ]

No, ACOS has been officially released on an EP, so it's not a B-side.

What about the earlier versions of ACoS, which are vastly different than the '95 version?

[pmahoney1337]

Don't Look Past Me is my personal favorite from their b-side stuff.

[hefdaddy42]

No, ACOS has been officially released on an EP, so it's not a B-side.

What about the earlier versions of ACoS, which are vastly different than the '95 version?

No, not B-sides.

[Global Laziness]

RAW DOG IS THE BEST THEM!!!

Seriously though, the three Images and Words-era songs are spectacular, as is Speak to Me.

[Ħ]

No, ACOS has been officially released on an EP, so it's not a B-side.

What about the earlier versions of ACoS, which are vastly different than the '95 version?

No, not B-sides.

Ok.  Well, what is the difference between a B-side, a demo, and any of those other weird words?  For example, we only have a demo version of Speak to Me.  Should it be under the demo category, or the B-side category, or both?  If both, I don't see why we should exclude the 91 version of ACOS.

[PetFish]

Dammit, I had a whole thing ready to go but something happened, maybe I'll try it again tomorrow.

[Mladen]

Cover my eyes 

[PetFish]

I'll just do the short version.  A demo is a roughly-produced song a band uses to tweak the final arrangement.  A b-side is a fully-produced song ready for inclusion on an album... an a-side at that point.  If it doesn't make an album but comes out later on a collection or a single it's called a b-side.  All of the FII demo songs are that, demos, as at an early stage they were cut from the official track list and not properly produced.  Granted, they are amazingly produced demos but they are still demos.

In conclusion, ACoS exists as a demo and an a-side, but no b-side.

[Ħ]

I'll just do the short version.  A demo is a roughly-produced song a band uses to tweak the final arrangement.  A b-side is a fully-produced song ready for inclusion on an album... an a-side at that point.  If it doesn't make an album but comes out later on a collection or a single it's called a b-side.  All of the FII demo songs are that, demos, as at an early stage they were cut from the official track list and not properly produced.  Granted, they are amazingly produced demos but they are still demos.

In conclusion, ACoS exists as a demo and an a-side, but no b-side.

Thanks for the description!

However, I recall reading that ACoS was going to be on IaW, but the record label wanted didn't want to risk such a long song.

[ZirconBlue]

I'll just do the short version.  A demo is a roughly-produced song a band uses to tweak the final arrangement.  A b-side is a fully-produced song ready for inclusion on an album... an a-side at that point.  If it doesn't make an album but comes out later on a collection or a single it's called a b-side.  All of the FII demo songs are that, demos, as at an early stage they were cut from the official track list and not properly produced.  Granted, they are amazingly produced demos but they are still demos.

In conclusion, ACoS exists as a demo and an a-side, but no b-side.

Well, a "B-side" was originally the song that was put on the opposite side (The "B" side) of the single, back in the days of 45's.  In the age of CD singles, that became a bit more blurred.  Presumably all of the extra songs on a CD single are "B-sides".  Which would include tracks like "You Or Me", which was included on a "Hollow Years" single.  To make it even more confusing, sometimes demo versions of songs get released as B-sides.  It gets even fuzzier as we move into the digital-only single realm.  Basically, a "B-side" now is basically finished songs not released as part of an album.  I think demos can be considered B-sides if they're polished, complete songs, that were not released as part of an album, like most of the FII demos, but not if they're just earlier versions of songs that did make the album.  I don't think early versions of ACoS count, since they would either be rough-cut demos or live bootleg recordings.

[PetFish]

Thanks for the description!

However, I recall reading that ACoS was going to be on IaW, but the record label wanted didn't want to risk such a long song.

Yes, but it was still in demo form.  If the label had ok'd to do it for the album then they would have re-done it with full and proper production.  So, if they said "ok" and re-did it, but then last-minute decided to cut it then we'd have an ACoS demo AND an ACoS b-side.

[Setlist Scotty]

I'll just do the short version.  A demo is a roughly-produced song a band uses to tweak the final arrangement.  A b-side is a fully-produced song ready for inclusion on an album... an a-side at that point.  If it doesn't make an album but comes out later on a collection or a single it's called a b-side.  All of the FII demo songs are that, demos, as at an early stage they were cut from the official track list and not properly produced.  Granted, they are amazingly produced demos but they are still demos.

In conclusion, ACoS exists as a demo and an a-side, but no b-side.

Well, a "B-side" was originally the song that was put on the opposite side (The "B" side) of the single, back in the days of 45's.  In the age of CD singles, that became a bit more blurred.  Presumably all of the extra songs on a CD single are "B-sides".  Which would include tracks like "You Or Me", which was included on a "Hollow Years" single.  To make it even more confusing, sometimes demo versions of songs get released as B-sides.  It gets even fuzzier as we move into the digital-only single realm.  Basically, a "B-side" now is basically finished songs not released as part of an album.  I think demos can be considered B-sides if they're polished, complete songs, that were not released as part of an album, like most of the FII demos, but not if they're just earlier versions of songs that did make the album.  I don't think early versions of ACoS count, since they would either be rough-cut demos or live bootleg recordings.

I agree with everything that you said, except for the last sentence, because You or Me (the demo of You Not Me) was released as a B-side on the Hollow Years CD single. For that matter, the Atco demo of Take the Time was released as a B-side on The Silent Man CD single (besides the Lie 12" single). Now, those songs had been released as actual B-sides; conversely, Raise the Knife, Where Are You Now & Don't Look Past Me were never put on any release outside of fan club, official bootleg or the LS companion CD releases. So the line gets blurred even further, and I can see why an early demo version of ACoS *could* be considered a B-side if the sound quality was good enough.

[ZirconBlue]

I'll just do the short version.  A demo is a roughly-produced song a band uses to tweak the final arrangement.  A b-side is a fully-produced song ready for inclusion on an album... an a-side at that point.  If it doesn't make an album but comes out later on a collection or a single it's called a b-side.  All of the FII demo songs are that, demos, as at an early stage they were cut from the official track list and not properly produced.  Granted, they are amazingly produced demos but they are still demos.

In conclusion, ACoS exists as a demo and an a-side, but no b-side.

Well, a "B-side" was originally the song that was put on the opposite side (The "B" side) of the single, back in the days of 45's.  In the age of CD singles, that became a bit more blurred.  Presumably all of the extra songs on a CD single are "B-sides".  Which would include tracks like "You Or Me", which was included on a "Hollow Years" single.  To make it even more confusing, sometimes demo versions of songs get released as B-sides.  It gets even fuzzier as we move into the digital-only single realm.  Basically, a "B-side" now is basically finished songs not released as part of an album.  I think demos can be considered B-sides if they're polished, complete songs, that were not released as part of an album, like most of the FII demos, but not if they're just earlier versions of songs that did make the album.  I don't think early versions of ACoS count, since they would either be rough-cut demos or live bootleg recordings.

I agree with everything that you said, except for the last sentence, because You or Me (the demo of You Not Me) was released as a B-side on the Hollow Years CD single. For that matter, the Atco demo of Take the Time was released as a B-side on The Silent Man CD single (besides the Lie 12" single). Now, those songs had been released as actual B-sides; conversely, Raise the Knife, Where Are You Now & Don't Look Past Me were never put on any release outside of fan club, official bootleg or the LS companion CD releases. So the line gets blurred even further, and I can see why an early demo version of ACoS *could* be considered a B-side if the sound quality was good enough.

Maybe.  That's a big "if", though.  Have you heard such a clean version?  I know I haven't. 

[Seventh Son]

Does anyone have a full list of all the B-sides? I know of a few but there seem to be a LOT of them  .

[m0hawk]

^ What this guy said. I haven't got a single B-side besides Raw Dog.

What are the CDs/b-side albums I should acquire?

[ZirconBlue]

^ What this guy said. I haven't got a single B-side besides Raw Dog.

What are the CDs/b-side albums I should acquire?

The "Cleaning out the Closet" fanclub cd and the FII Demos CD (from Ytsejam Records) cover most of them. 

Don't Look Past Me
To Live Forever
Eve
Raise the Knife
Where are You now?
The Way it Used to be
Cover My Eyes
Speak to Me
You Or Me

[m0hawk]

Ok, I just got Under a Cyber Moon. Not too sure who made that, but it's got those tracks that you mentioned. Cheers.

[faemir]

Too bad DT's b-sides are nothing on PT's.

But Raise the Knife Score edition is a top 20 song for sure.

[The Letter M]

Too bad DT's b-sides are nothing on PT's.

But Raise the Knife Score edition is a top 20 song for sure.

Sure, when you compare song-to-song, but when you compare PT's B-sides to the albums they were from to DT's B-sides and their source albums, I think DT edges a bit. "Don't Look Past Me" and "To Live Forever" would've been great on Images & Words, and "Raise The Knife" and some of the FII B-sides would've been far better choices than some of the songs that made the final album.

For PT, I think the choices they made for their albums were great, and so B-sides are often meant to be just B-sides, although exception goes to songs like "Buying New Soul", "Normal", and "Half-Light".

-Marc.

[Ben_Jamin]

^don't forget Strip The Soul

[Zydar]

^don't forget Strip The Soul

And my favourite, So Called Friend

[Cool Chris]

… "Raise The Knife" and some of the FII B-sides would've been far better choices than some of the songs that made the final album.

That’s not saying much considering what actually did end up on the album.

The "Cleaning out the Closet" fanclub cd and the FII Demos CD (from Ytsejam Records) cover most of them. 

Don't Look Past Me
To Live Forever
Eve
Raise the Knife
Where are You now?
The Way it Used to be
Cover My Eyes
Speak to Me
You Or Me

Looking at these as a list, Speak to Me is a good, quality song as recorded and released. To Live Forever is a cool song to throw in to a live set, especially with an extended jam in the middle. Eve is a nice instrumental but I can’t see it anywhere on any album release. Raise the Knife had some great potential, which they totally capitalized on for Score/RCMH. Cover My Eyes needed some reworking/rethinking for a solid performance at that acoustic show. On the whole, there isn’t much there to blow a wad over.

[ZirconBlue]

To each their own, I guess.  I've said before (maybe in this very thread), that I like Cleaning out the Closet more than some of their more recent studio albums. 

I forgot one: the piano version of "Wither".

[Martinman300]

Just found don't look past me from I'm guessing '91 with pre accident james!!!!

Mis-titled as ACOS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tcb_H7ZHs6I

[PetFish]

I was all ready to say that isn't James until I started listening to it.  I thought I'd heard everything from DT before but I've never heard this version.  Nice find!

[?]

The only version of Don't Look Past Me with James I've heard is the one with vocals recorded in '99 so that version was new to me too!

[madscot]

Eve is so great and so moving that i'm having it played at my funeral, it is the most under-rated DT song of all time for me

[Cable]

Eve, RTF, Speak To Me, Where Are You Now are all wonderful and should have found a place on an official studio album.

[pcs90]

Eve is easily in my top 20 favorite DT songs. TLF is also great, and I loved all the extra instrumental parts they played during the IW tour after this song (for example the one on Live in Tokyo, "Barfbag", and there were 1 or 2 others).

[Rodni Demental]

Just found don't look past me from I'm guessing '91 with pre accident james!!!!

Mis-titled as ACOS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tcb_H7ZHs6I

Wow, this thread has taught me that Don't Look Past Me's vocals were done by late 90s James and not early 90s James. Who even knew this? I wouldn't have thought so. 

Then I find there's content of the older version too! That is so cool! What is that clip from anyway? Is it from his audition takes or just an early demo for the song?

[Stadler]

The only 2 B-sides I'm not super thrilled with are Where Are You Now and Cover My Eyes. The rest are as good as a chunk of DT's "regular" songs!

You and I are usually in sync on this stuff; To Live Forever and Cover My Eyes are both in my top five DT songs of all time (not just B-Sides, but ALL songs).   

Nice explanation of "B-sides", though.  I think you nailed it perfectly. 

[Architeuthis]

I've only heard Raise the Knife (Score), and To Live Forever (Live).  Where can I find the other ones mentioned in this thread??

[Rodni Demental]

You could painstakingly collect the assortment of singles and bonus tracks from various special editions. Or pay a lot for Cleaning out the Closet. Or.. youtube?