Within Temptation thread

[bosk1]

Yeah, if she was my wife or girlfriend, ...well, she'd be almost as hot as my actual wife.  

[Adami]

Yeah, if she was my wife or girlfriend, ...well, she'd be almost as hot as my actual wife.  

Looks like you gotta get your wife pregnant then.

[bosk1]

Oh, don't worry.  We've been down that road.  We just had our third this summer, remember?

[Adami]

Oh, don't worry.  We've been down that road.  We just had our third this summer, remember?

I don't remember a damn thing about summer. Sadly.

But a late congrats.

[Gadough]

Yeah, if she was my wife or girlfriend, ...well, she'd be almost as hot as my actual wife.  

Looks like your wife was looking over your shoulder as you typed.

[DarkChestOfWonders]

Yeah, if she was my wife or girlfriend, ...well, she'd be almost as hot as my actual wife.  

Looks like your wife was looking over your shoulder as you typed.

  I can vouch for the fact that she wasn't.

[Gadough]

I had no idea Mrs. Bosk was a DTF member. Howdy.

[ariich]

So, they released their new single, Faster, a couple of weeks ago. Anyone else heard it?

Official promo vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDJpf2mQ0w4

Love the chorus, and Sharon is sounding amazing!

EDIT: Figured I'd merge the two threads together, keep the discussion in one place.

[jsem]

Not a terrible song... but they can do better than that..

[jonny108]

Can't wait for this new album and the new single is sounding amazing IMO.  Listening to Silent Force at the minute; not listened to this album in ages...love it!   

[ZeppelinDT]

I just got an e-mail that they're playing Terminal 5 in NYC in September.  Since when are they big enough to play a 6,000 capacity venue?!

[Cool Chris]

Just listened to 'Faster.' Missed the update in this thread somehow. Great song, anxious to hear the rest of the album!

[faemir]

I want to hear the rest of the album, as it's less choiry and more straight-foward rockish.

[Ben_Jamin]

Loved it

[yeshaberto]

wow, the chorus 

[Cool Chris]

New album out today. Discuss! Haven’t bought yet as I am completing an amazon.com order – and haven’t decided on which version to get.

Reading comments on amazon (yes, I know I’m not supposed to do that…), there are three songs available for download only. Is this the future of b-sides? Why aren’t they on the album proper? Marketing them as ‘bonus’ songs is bs. A bonus is something including as part of something purchased, not something you pay extra for.

[Zook]

Awesome album. Bought it last night. Definitely their best. Sentence fragment.

[bosk1]

Bought it yesterday and only have one listen in so far.  I'm mostly liking what I hear.  The album starts off a little slow, IMO, but builds.  Sonically, it is a logical progression from The Heart Of Everything.  There is at times some really cool riffage.  For example, I think it was the third song (In The Middle Of The Night) where the who first verse was just a chunky chugging away on a muted chord.  That contined through the first verse, and I was actually getting impatient thinking "this sounds cool, but I'm really disappointed that they are basing the entire song around something so simplistic."  Then, bam!  Second verse:  they throw in some really sinister riffing out of nowhere and change it up a bit before going back into the chorus.  When they later went back into the chugging riff, it was a lot more satisfying in context with the other parts.  Anyway, some cool stuff going on.  
Sharon's vocals may be a bit stronger this time around, but not as dynamic.  The lyrics on the first couple of songs were pretty disappionting.  THOE had some terrific lyrics.  But on the first couple of tracks on this album, they're almost vapid.  But some of the stuff later on seemed a lot better.  I still have no clue what the story is about.  Not sure whether that's because I just haven't listened closely, if it is intentionally vague, or if the lyrics just aren't written that well.  I got the SE with DVD, so maybe watching that will shed some light as well.


EDIT:  Yeah, it was definitely In The Middle Of The Night that had that riffing.  Perhaps some of the best riffage on the entire album.

Iron is incredibly catchy.  Big, memorable, simultaneously upbeat yet dark chorus.  Nice guitar soloing.  They pull off the ultimate anthem cliche in this song:  Chorus after the guitar solo => repeat chorus half a step higher.  Clicke, but it works.

at the Phantom of the Opera riff in A Demon's Fate.  Not sure if they were doing an intentional reference or not.  If it was intentional, it's strangely appropriate in this song.

EDIT2:  Where is Adami?  I thought for sure he would have built a time machine, gone forward in time to the release date to buy the album, and then gone back, thus having the album before any of us.  Why no commentary?

[DarkChestOfWonders]

Great album, but I still miss Tarja. 

Oh, wait.  Wrong band.   

So as far as the extra "bonus tracks," they are NOT on the special edition, in case anyone was wondering.     The only ones I know of are Empty Eyes, I Don't Wanna, and The Last Dance.  Does anyone know if that is all of them?

[Adami]

Sorry Bosk, no time machine for me.


But I haven't heard the album yet, I have been crazy busy with too many things and haven't had time to go buy it. I heard Faster though, it was well played but it didn't really do anything for me. However once I get some free time I'll go get it, I'm sure it will be lovely.

[faemir]

Easily their best.

[bosk1]

I wouldn't call it their best, but it is definitely very good.  I wish the story was a bit easier to follow though.  I'm still not really sure what's going on at all.

[Dimitrius]

Need to get this new album.

[ariich]

Bought it today (digital download, running out of space for actual CDs so having to limit that to my favourite bands or albums that really excite me!).

About half way through so far, really really liking it. Seems maybe a bit less diverse than the last album, so far anyway, but the choruses are amazing and Sharon is sounding really fantastic!

Oh man Iron is such an epic song!

[bosk1]

Some random notes...

***concept plot spoilers***

I'm struggling a bit with the "concept" part of this as a concept album.  It's a lot more clear now after watching the videos on the DVD, but there is still a lot of grey.  Kind of a neat idea, but I have mixed feelings about the whole "multimedia experience" part of this concept album.  What I mean is, best I can tell, it's virtually impossible to get a very good sense of any story or what is going on just from the lyrics because the lyrics simply don't tell a linear story.  You have to read the comic and watch the short films on the DVD to really get the full picture.  (Speaking of the comic, does anyone know whether they are selling a paper version, or is it only the electronic version on the DVD?)  On one hand, this really pushes the boundaries of what a "concept album" is and adds another dimension where the listener can't help but have images evoked from the comic and films when listening to the music.  On the other hand, the story just flat-out isn't told well from a lyrical standpoint.  Some of the lyrics on the album are fantastic because they are just well written or at least move the story forward.  Some are horrible because they are vague and/or overly simplistic and have me wondering how the same band that wrote lyrics for The Heart Of Everything could have written some of these.  Anyhow, like I said, this isn't necessarily a knock on this album.  I'm undecided about how I feel about this and how it works.

As far as the short films themselves, they are pretty cool.  Overall, I think they're well-done.  Some of the acting isn't tip-top quality, and some of the shots are cliche.  But I still think they work well with the album concept.  My only complaint is that I wish they would have done something to show a bit of the resolution of the story.  We've got Mother Maiden, who she is, and a little bit about why she does what she does.  We've got Sinead's origins and, in the Sinead video itself, Sinead acting as the resurrected assassin.  And we've got the triplets, both in origin, and as Mother Maiden's minions.  That's all very cool, and I have no complaints about what is there.  But I found myself wanting more meat about whatever the major conflict and resolution are for these characters.  I'm assuming that is in the comic (and maybe there is no resolution there because maybe this is only the beginning of Sinead's character), which I haven't read yet.  But another short film with some of that would have been much appreciated.

Oh, and as far as the videos:  As a DT fan, while watching those, I was having MAJOR LOL moments whenever they would flash to the drummer.  I've you've watched these videos, you know why.  

Lastly, I just have to comment on Sharon's voice.  Yeah, it's a studio recording, and you can pretty much do whatever you want in the studio to pretty much make anyone sound great.  But I haven't heard Sharon sound this fierce EVER.  Everything she does is so smooth on this album.  I hope I get a chance to see them on this tour.

[ariich]

it's a studio recording, and you can pretty much do whatever you want in the studio to pretty much make anyone sound great.

Apart from Rebecca Black, apparently.

Regarding your issues over the concept album side of things, I really can't see the problem. I only bought it on download so I don't get all the vids and comic book stuff, but the music is great and the lyrics are pretty neat. In terms of the concept itself, I don't feel that linear story-telling is mandatory; indeed I actually think making it more unusual and letting us use our imagination a bit is a nifty idea, and one that many bands have utilised before.

[bosk1]

I'm not saying it's a "problem," necessarily.  But after reading through the lyrics again, I'm 100% convinced that you canNOT figure out anything significant about the story from the song lyrics.  Maybe that's a problem and maybe it isn't.  But it is "unusual" as far as concept albums go. 

Here's a sort of premature "review" of the album that I posted somewhere else.  It incorporates a lot of the last post toward the end, but there is lots of other info as well.

There are no spoilers in the first part of this "review."  Since this is a concept album and some may not wish to know some of the details, I will post spoiler tags when I get into spoiler-type territory.  And I hesitate to call this a "review" since I'm not really going to undertake what we would normally consider a detailed review of the album.  This is just some of my initial stream-of-consciousness reaction and attempt to generate some discussion after having the album for a week. 

First off, this was labeled a "concept album," but departs somewhat from what a traditional concept album has always been about.  Traditionally, a concept album will not only have a well-defined concept or theme, but will also generally have a cast of characters moving through a formal plot of some sort, ala Operation: Mindcrime.  In contrast, albums like Dark Side Of The Moon and Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence, for example, are better examples of theme albums where there is a concept, but no story.  This definitely is a concept album.  However, the story is not completely told in the lyrics.  In fact, taking the song lyrics in isolation, the album is somewhat similar to Symphony X's Paradise Lost, which was based on a work of fiction and loosely had some narrative, but no clear plot a listener could follow.  On The Unforgiving, there are three distinct parts of the multimedia storytelling experience, and they are all interdependent on one another to tell the story.  You not only have the music, but on the DVD that comes with the special edition, you also have the two other essential pieces:  (1) the video short films; and (2) the comic/graphic novel.  After having listened to the CD and read through the lyrics twice, I am convinced that you absolutely have to have the other two pieces to make any kind of sense of the story.  But I will come back to this in just a bit.

First off, let me say that I really like this album.  I think the band did a terrific job of creating good, catchy, well-written songs.  I read a recent review where the reviewer was going on endlessly about how the band had taken their sound into a brand new territory and how different this album is.  I strongly disagree.  Other than a couple of songs adding in some dance-able beats, this album is a logical progression from The Heart Of Everything and does not really push out into any new territory not covered on that album.  But that's fine and dandy.  This band knows what they do well, and they mostly execute it very, very well.

I was nervous about the album when I first popped it in.  The band had taken a long time off, was trying out an ambitious concept album, and had revealed in its first single, Faster, that at least part of the album would have pop-metal appeal.  I thought to myself, "this could either be really good or a complete disaster." 

The first track, and intro narrative titled Why Not Me did not convince me one way or the other.  [*Don't worry--there still aren't any real spoilers coming*]  The track introduces one of the characters and sets a dark stage for the story.  I still couldn't decide whether this was cheesy or well-done. 

Next up, Shot In The Dark.  This one starts off slower than I was expecting.  Kind of a dancy beat in the beginning, but it definitely started rocking.  Not as bombastic a start as I might have expected for the first musical track on a concept album, but I was reserving judgment until I heard more. 

In The Middle Of The Night was the next track, and this is where I really started to get nervous.  The intro riff was okay, but didn't really do much for me.  Then into the first verse, and it is just chugging away on muted power chords in a very simple, predictable way.  In and of itself, it wasn't bad.  But I really started to feel like maybe this album was NOT worth a 4-year wait.  The song was just sounding far too simplistic.  And based on the pop-metal first single and Shot In The Dark, I was not feeling very optimistic.  Then after the first chorus, everything changed.  Some of the most sinister and aggressive riffing I have ever heard from this band kicked in at about 1:45 and continued on.  Then when they went back into the chugging, muted riff, it fit perfectly in the overall context of the song.  This has become perhaps my favorite song on the album. 

I'm not going to go song-by-song through the rest of the album.  Suffice it to say, this album really has everything the band is known for.  It has a good mix of up-tempo songs and slow songs.  It has heavy.  It has soft.  Sharon's voice absolutely soars and sounds better than ever.  The orchestration is beautiful and fits the songs very well.  And the guitars are up front when they need to be, and take a back seat when called for.  Overall, the word that probably best describes this album is "balance."  It really does a fine job of incorporating lots of different things in just the right amounts. 

Now on to a bit of criticism.  Some of the lyrics are really, really good.  Others I find really lacking.  There are times when I seriously question how the band that penned some of the best lyrics on The Heart Of Everything could have written some of the lyrics on this album.  And what's with the extreme overuse of the band's apparent new curse word, "damn?"  Not that there's anything outright objectionable about it--it's probably the mildest form of profanity one could choose.  But that's perhaps the problem.  Why does it show up, not to describe damnation, but as a curse word, at least sixteen times?  It's already weak as far as curse words go.  And as far as creating any kind of impact, its overuse really dilutes any kind of impact it might otherwise have.  Maybe the point is to convey a double meaning through overuse.  But it just feels like they were trying to be edgy, but were worried about going too far by using some "real swear words." 

Another problem with the lyrics is that they are incredibly vague and don't do a good job of telling the story.  And here's where we start getting into spoilers, so...

***concept plot spoilers***

I'm struggling a bit with the "concept" part of this as a concept album.  It's a lot more clear now after watching the videos on the DVD, but there is still a lot of grey.  Kind of a neat idea, but I have mixed feelings about the whole "multimedia experience" part of this concept album.  What I mean is, best I can tell, it's virtually impossible to get a very good sense of any story or what is going on just from the lyrics because the lyrics simply don't tell a linear story.  You have to read the comic and watch the short films on the DVD to really get the full picture.  (Speaking of the comic, does anyone know whether they are selling a paper version, or is it only the electronic version on the DVD?)  On one hand, this really pushes the boundaries of what a "concept album" is and adds another dimension where the listener can't help but have images evoked from the comic and films when listening to the music.  On the other hand, the story just flat-out isn't told well from a lyrical standpoint.  Some of the lyrics on the album are fantastic because they are just well written or at least move the story forward.  Some are horrible because they are vague and/or overly simplistic, as I mentioned above.  This isn't necessarily a knock on the album as a whole, but I'm undecided about how I feel about this and how it works.

As far as the short films themselves, they are pretty cool.  Overall, I think they're well-done.  Some of the acting isn't tip-top quality, and some of the shots are cliche.  But I still think they work well with the album concept.  My only complaint is that I wish they would have done something to show a bit of the resolution of the story.  We've got Mother Maiden, who she is, and a little bit about why she does what she does.  I wonder from the song lyrics and some potential hints in the videos whether she is ready to "retire" and plans on having Sinead take her place.  Hmm...  We've got Sinead's origins and, in the Sinead video itself, Sinead acting as the resurrected assassin.  And we've got the triplets, both in origin, and as Mother Maiden's minions.  That's all very cool, and I have no complaints about what is there.  But I found myself wanting more meat about whatever the major conflict and resolution are for these characters.  I'm assuming that is in the comic (and maybe there is no resolution there because maybe this is only the beginning of Sinead's character), which I haven't read yet.  But another short film with some of that would have been much appreciated.  And who is the "he" in the lyrics in A Demon's Fate?  Is there a demon pulling the strings behind Mother Maiden?  Is he Mother Maiden's (and Sinead's) adversary?  There is much to be explained here.

Oh, and as far as the videos:  As a DT fan, while watching those, I was having MAJOR LOL moments whenever they would flash to the drummer.  I've you've watched these videos, you know why. 

Lastly, I just have to comment again on Sharon's voice.  Yeah, it's a studio recording, and you can pretty much do whatever you want in the studio to pretty much make anyone sound great.  But I haven't heard Sharon sound this fierce EVER.  Everything she does is so smooth on this album.  I hope I get a chance to see them on this tour.

Anyhow, that's it for now.  Hopefully, the one or two other fans of this band on the forum will want to have some discussion and we can see where this goes...

[ariich]

I can completely see what you're saying about In The Middle of the Night; it's fairly catchy but I do find it a little... nothingy I guess. It gets better half way through but it's still one of my least favourites.

Whereas Shot in the Dark I really enjoy, I dig the dance (ish) vibe at the start and I love the chorus. In fact, the choruses on this album are just immense, probably their best to date! The only reason I still slightly prefer The Heart of Everything is that I think that had a little more variety in tone - as much as I love the choruses on The Unforgiving, they're all pretty similar.

As for the lyrics, to be honest I haven't paid all that much attention to them yet. Again, I only bought it on download, and so I don't have the booklet or any of that, but they're probably online by now so maybe at the weekend I'll take the time to really read through them while listening.

Finally, back to the concept thing, I agree that it's much less common for the story of a concept album to not be clear/explicit/linear, but it does happen fairly often still. Can't think of many examples off the top of my head, but Pain of Salvation's albums definitely fall under this category.

[bosk1]

So apparently, after a little digging, the films (and I think the comic on the DVD) are the prequel story to the storyline on the CD and in the 6-issue comic series that will be coming out shortly.  This is kind of a neat idea, although some may find it gimmicky.  Well, I guess there's no denying that it's gimmicky.    But if it works, who cares?  Ariich, you really should get the SE.  The short films on the DVD are eery and really pull you into the darkness of the story.  The commercial videos that are on YouTube are different versions than the videos on the DVD and cut together scenes from the shorts in a way that doesn't really tell you what's going on.

Anyhow, some song-specific comments:

Fire and Ice:  Nice ballad.  Not much more I can say than that.  It doesn't really seem to fit the "concept" story, but it's a solid song.  Nothing that departs radically from any other WT ballad.

Iron:  Nice mid-album rocker.  This song pulls the classic rock-anthem cliche of coming back to the chorus after the solo (and did I mention this album has some really tasty guitar solos?) and then taking it up half a step to add tension.  ...and it TOTALLY works.

Where Is The Edge?:  Big, soaring song that kind of typifies WT's sound.  Nothing surprising here.  But as with other songs, it just works.  The string arrangements are just gorgeous.  If you liked The Heart Of Everything, you will like this song.

Sinead:  Dance beats.  But...the song still works.  The band venture off into pop/dance territory, but still manage to rock.  I would be surprised if this song didn't garner a LOT of airplay and exposure.  I also would not be surprised if a club mix surfaces at some point.  The song just has hooks for days.

Murder:  The return of Sharon's effects-laden vocal snarl (think The Heart Of Everything and The Cross).  She sounds outright wicked on this song.  The big string orchestration in the intro coupled with the title momentarily gave me Mindcrime II flashbacks when I first heard the song, but that quickly passed once Sharon's vocals kicked in.  This is probably my second favorite on the album behind In The Middle Of The Night.  The song starts a nice 3-song wrapup of the album.

A Demon's Fate:  Some of Sharon's best singing on the album, and that's saying a lot.  A fun, dark rocker that packs a lot of feeling.  There is a moment in the song after the solo, however, that once you listen, you can never unhear ever again.  Right before the main guitar solo, there is a moment that incorporates the Phantom of the Opera riff, which is strangly appropriate.  And at the same time, there is a vocal line underneath that is eerily reminiscent of the keyboard part underneat the big power chords after the guitar solo in Separate Ways (Worlds Apart).  It's not exact, but, again, the similarity is strong enough that I simply can't NOT hear it every time I listen now. 

Stairway To The Skies:  A very moody, brooding piece.  I've come to expect big, bombastic finales where concept albums are concerned.  This is a surprising departure from that.  But despite being a softer ending and having some similar thematic elements to All The Promises, this song is just gorgeous and is a fitting album closer.  I really wish it were a bit more clear what's going on with the story at this point, but I think that when the last issue of the comic is released, we will know all.  It seems that...  

*spoiler alert!*  

...the overall plan that Mother Maiden's assassins earn an entrance into heaven by paying their penance somehow goes wrong with Sinead.  There are a few possibilities that seem supported by the lyrics, but I'm not sure.  One is that perhaps she comes to focus more on the vengeance aspect of her assassin duties, comes to like or crave it, and becomes a dark soul herself, thereby losing the possibility of salvation.  But the lyrics also seem to hint that she chooses to stay behind for somebody.  Her daughter, perhaps?  Not clear.  It seems as though she is staying behind for somebody, but that she is also separated from someone who has gone to heaven and is waiting for her.  Perhaps the latter is her father?  Hmm...it'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

[Perpetual Change]

you really should get the SE. 

I'll be keeping this in mind for when I really pick up the album. All too often I've just gone with iTunes or Amazon MP3, only to find that there's actual relevant things included in the booklet.

[Jamesman42]

Great album, but I still miss Tarja. 

Oh, wait.  Wrong band.   

Oh my God. As I was reading this exact reply, the WI playlist on Youtube switched to Nightwish (Bye Bye Beautiful). That was insane!

[YtseBitsySpider]

Ok....after all the gushing..I had to find out what was going on.
Im not a big "chick" vocal band.

This stuff really sounds like Heart to me, but spead up, a bit more crunch.
I like.
It's catchy.
I think the wife will dig it too.

So much for the June release date in the release date thread. At least I think that's what it said.

[ariich]

Yeah I always think of most of WT's stuff as great pop music with an infusion of rock/metal.

[Perpetual Change]

Was geared up to get this today, enter the store, and viola! No special edition. Since this is Hong Kong and everything's imported, I refuse to pay the equivalent of like 18 US dollars for the single disc version, especially when the other parts seem so central to the story.

Guess I'll be getting this some other time.

Did I mention Amazon and iTunes don't accept my HK bank card, either? Sometimes I really do just feel like I oughtta just steal everything off the internet 

[YtseBitsySpider]

Welcome aboard PC.
YAR!!