Author Topic: Black Holes and Revelations  (Read 10562 times)

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Offline KevShmev

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Black Holes and Revelations
« on: September 04, 2010, 08:04:17 AM »
Listened to this from start to finish last night for the first time in a while, and I was reminded that it is definitely Muse's best record to date.  Every song is great.  There are no weak spots, and I refuse to trust the opinion of anyone who says otherwise. :biggrin:


Offline robwebster

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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2010, 08:05:28 AM »
Agreed!

It's controversial, but agreed. Also their bravest. Supermassive Black Hole - christ!

Offline tri.ad

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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2010, 08:09:44 AM »
I don't consider every song amazing - Invincible, Assassin and Exo-Politics are kinda meh in my opinion - but it really is a strong album that contains several of my favourite songs by Muse.
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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2010, 08:10:40 AM »
It was one of those cd's that I played, thought that they were stretching themselves (I like when bands do that) but with every listen it grew on me to the point I found myself playing it a few times a week.  I love albums that grow on you.
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2010, 08:14:24 AM »
I've never been able to resonate with this album. It's just lifeless. Still better that Resistance.

Offline jag66

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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2010, 08:29:03 AM »
Poor mans OOS in my opinion (although that has a couple of duds too)

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2010, 08:34:52 AM »
I don't consider every song amazing - Invincible, Assassin and Exo-Politics are kinda meh in my opinion - but it really is a strong album that contains several of my favourite songs by Muse.

"Take a Bow" and "Map of the Problematique" are probably my two favorite Muse songs. :)

It was one of those cd's that I played, thought that they were stretching themselves (I like when bands do that) but with every listen it grew on me to the point I found myself playing it a few times a week.  I love albums that grow on you.

Same here.  For me, this is one of those albums that I can turn on just to hear "Take a Bow," and before I know it, I have listened to the whole thing. :coolio

Poor mans OOS in my opinion (although that has a couple of duds too)

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Offline skydivingninja

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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2010, 09:39:36 AM »
You're right, there really isn't a bad song on Black Holes.  There are also no bad songs on Absolution and Origin of Symmetry, and the songs on those two albums are just better than those on BH.

But BH&R is an awesome album nonetheless.

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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2010, 02:55:29 PM »
It's a very good album, but I still rank it 4th out of their 5 albums (Showbiz taking the bottom spot). Some really great songs, but a couple of real duds as well, like Invincible and to a lesser extent Starlight.

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Offline Nick

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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2010, 03:39:48 PM »
Listened to this from start to finish last night for the first time in a while, and I was reminded that it is definitely Muse's best record to date.  Every song is great.  There are no weak spots, and I refuse to trust the opinion of anyone who says otherwise. :biggrin:


While I love the album, my favorite Muse album in fact, Invincible is definitely a weak spot.
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Offline Marvellous G

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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2010, 03:41:41 PM »
Just like I have with all Muse, I enjoy it and see that it's good but I can't imagine ever loving it.

Offline shadowfex

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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2010, 04:51:27 PM »
I'm not a huge fan of the album, probably my least favourite Muse record. Though strangely I seem to be the only one who likes Invincible.
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Offline Arcaeus

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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2010, 04:54:22 PM »
Just like I have with all Muse, I enjoy it and see that it's good but I can't imagine ever loving it.

This, except I do love Origin of Symmetry. I like a few tracks off the others, but that's it. Admittedly I enjoy BH&R less than Resistance.

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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2010, 05:21:09 PM »
Yeah apart from Guiding Light (possibly Muse's worst song :lol) The Resistance is awesome.

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Offline skydivingninja

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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2010, 06:21:54 PM »
I'm not a huge fan of the album, probably my least favourite Muse record. Though strangely I seem to be the only one who likes Invincible.

Invincible is a very good song.  "Guiding Light" on the other hand....

Offline Volk9

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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2010, 06:23:38 PM »
I like a few songs, but overall I dont like it muc tbh. I prefer Resistance
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Offline robwebster

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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2010, 06:28:14 PM »
I'm not a huge fan of the album, probably my least favourite Muse record. Though strangely I seem to be the only one who likes Invincible.

Invincible is a very good song.  "Guiding Light" on the other hand....
Yeah, I love Invincible. It's got a lot of spirit to it. Wonderful little song.

Guiding Light, on the other hand, I'm a bit ambivalent about. When I'm in the mood, I dig it, but it's a bit of a comedown after the fantastic USE.

Origin, I think, is fairly mid-range. There are lots of good songs, but there's not much variety. Not in the same league as Absolution or Black Holes. Origin sounds like a slew of brilliant rock songs. (And New Born, especially, is truly... astonishing!) They don't quite have the extra spice of A/BHR.

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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2010, 06:41:53 PM »
Good album. Not great, but good. Certainly far better than Resistance.
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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2010, 07:00:30 PM »
I agree with your point about OoS, Rob. The quality of the songs is mostly really excellent, but the lack of any real variety is why it's only my second favourite Muse album and Absolution is my number one. :)

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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2010, 07:04:23 PM »
Never heard this album, or very much of this band.  I should probably remedy that.
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Offline Quadrochosis

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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2010, 07:15:01 PM »
I was big on them a few years ago, then I discovered bands like PT and Opeth and they have since kind of faded into the background for me. They, along with Dream Theater, were more of a stepping stone into the more experimental/prog stuff.
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Offline skydivingninja

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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2010, 07:43:49 PM »
Never heard this album, or very much of this band.  I should probably remedy that.
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Absolution and Black Holes work well as intro albums.  After you listen to those, go get Origin of Symmetry.

Offline Fluffy Lothario

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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2010, 07:51:42 PM »
I liked about half of this album. In particular, I really liked Supermassive and Problematique. Despite not liking the album overall, I think you kind of have to respect the band for really stretching out and going in a ton of different directions.

The intro and outro are both terrible though, IMO. I could swear nothing happens in either song.

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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2010, 07:52:27 PM »
You mean Knights of Cydonia and Take a Bow?  What is wrong with you?

Offline Fluffy Lothario

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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2010, 09:14:41 PM »
Take a Bow is a boring buildup that goes nowhere at all; Knights of Cydonia is an annoying vocal harmony effect, followed by an annoying drum beat, followed by some fairly good heavy guitar which can't save the song on its own. In other words, especially considering it's apparently a six minute epic, almost nothing happens there either. And the lyrics in both are just empty, oh so rebellious pomp rock drivel. Both songs came across to me as all theatrics and no substance. It's like they were solely written so that crowds at their concerts can punch their fists in the air and scream along with them and feel as though they're raging against authority.

Offline Volk9

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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2010, 09:21:38 PM »
I liked about half of this album. In particular, I really liked Supermassive and Problematique. Despite not liking the album overall, I think you kind of have to respect the band for really stretching out and going in a ton of different directions.

The intro and outro are both terrible though, IMO. I could swear nothing happens in either song.

I agree with you. Take a Bow is a decent opener, but KOC is terrible. I've never understood what everyone likes about it
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2010, 10:57:20 PM »
Take a Bow is a boring buildup that goes nowhere at all; Knights of Cydonia is an annoying vocal harmony effect, followed by an annoying drum beat, followed by some fairly good heavy guitar which can't save the song on its own. In other words, especially considering it's apparently a six minute epic, almost nothing happens there either. And the lyrics in both are just empty, oh so rebellious pomp rock drivel. Both songs came across to me as all theatrics and no substance. It's like they were solely written so that crowds at their concerts can punch their fists in the air and scream along with them and feel as though they're raging against authority.

That's because you're describing exactly what the album is. After the initial blast-off, Black Holes and Revelations is a frictionless ride float through zero-gravity, at least until everything comes crashing down at the end of Cydonia.

Offline Fluffy Lothario

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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2010, 11:59:05 PM »
I like a fair few of the songs in the middle, and wouldn't call the others terrible by any stretch. I'm not the biggest fan of very theatrical rock, but Muse pulls it off well a lot of the time because they (or perhaps Bellamy, don't know if he does all the writing) are/is pretty decent songwriter/s.

But those two tracks feel more like incomplete sketches of songs than fully realised songs to me, like the band were only really interested in completing them to the extent that they could create the effect I described above.

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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2010, 12:21:56 AM »
BH&R is my favorite Muse record. This forum seems to have fallen out of love with the band since The Resistance came out. At the very least, we don't talk about them as much as I remember in the past.

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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2010, 02:54:07 AM »
Well, that's because The Resistance blows. I think The Resistance ruined The Incident for me, since they both came out on the same day and Resistance was just such crap I couldn't separate from The Incident. Fuck The Resistance.

Also, BH&R is third, Absolution>Origins of Symmetry>Black Holes and Revelations>Showbiz>Resistance

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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2010, 03:13:23 AM »
The day The Resistance and The Incident came out was one of the most disappointing days of my musical life. I still kind of care about what PT do in the future, though, whereas I'm pretty much done with Muse.

Offline Marvellous G

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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2010, 04:38:58 AM »
Take a Bow is a boring buildup that goes nowhere at all; Knights of Cydonia is an annoying vocal harmony effect, followed by an annoying drum beat, followed by some fairly good heavy guitar which can't save the song on its own. In other words, especially considering it's apparently a six minute epic, almost nothing happens there either. And the lyrics in both are just empty, oh so rebellious pomp rock drivel. Both songs came across to me as all theatrics and no substance. It's like they were solely written so that crowds at their concerts can punch their fists in the air and scream along with them and feel as though they're raging against authority.

That is all true, but I think you've got to give KoC a bit more credit than that. The buildup to that heavy riff is actually surprisingly good (for someone that doesn't like Muse) and some of the stuff they've got going on in the background of the riff is actually very interesting. And the riff itself is, along with Plug In Baby, one of the few riffs I'd cite of Muse's that I'd actually say I really enjoyed. But I do agree that it doesn't really justify it's length. (inb4 that's what she said)

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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2010, 04:50:31 AM »
One thing I'll never understand is how someone can love one Muse album and literally hate another. NONE OF THEM ARE THAT DIFFERENT. I'm just glad I'm not so outrageously picky and pedantic that it happens to me.

And anyway The Resistance is amazing, slightly better than BH&R in my opinion. But I disagree that the forum has fallen out of love with them, there's just less discussion because everyone has heard of them now. A couple of years ago was when they were breaking through in the US (they've been massive here in the UK since OoS first came out) so people got excited about them, but now most people know them so there's less to discuss.

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Offline robwebster

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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2010, 05:26:15 AM »
One thing I'll never understand is how someone can love one Muse album and literally hate another. NONE OF THEM ARE THAT DIFFERENT. I'm just glad I'm not so outrageously picky and pedantic that it happens to me.
Ohhh, I dunno! Undisclosed Desires is nigh-on R&B. Absolution sounds very classical in places, whereas Resistance is more eighties synthy... with the massive blowout of Exogenesis at the end. The song-writing's fairly consistent, but they do jump through the styles quite a lot. Also if you keep in mind that before Black Holes there was only, say, Absolution and Origin. Showbiz for the dedicated fans. It kinds of gets the "replacement scrappy" effect. Whenever you make a change, some of the fanbase will go "ooh! that's nifty" and others will go "HERESY. ARRRRRGH. BRING BACK ORIGIN." Muse have got a very broken base. Also, not an especially clever base. Have you been to muse.mu or muselive.com? There are some bright people sprinkled in, but some are pretty obtuse. Very reactionist, as well. I saw a bunch of them having a go at Warner for the quality of their self-produced album, recorded in a home studio with no external input.

That said, back to the music, they're more different flavours. When Muse bring in synths, they don't go all out Gorillaz, they just produce a good rock song with a Timbaland (or whatever!) pulse. Different flavours. Just 'cause I like Cheese & Onion crisps doesn't mean I'm gonna be a fan of, say, Barbecue, which is a horrible flavour of crisps and should never have happened.

I understand it. I've always seen Muse as one of the bolder bands - they do a lot of experimentation, all considered, and they're bound to alienate people. I remember being appalled when Supermassive Black Hole was released. Like, genuinely a little bit irate. I'd not listened to Muse since... well, not in about two years, so it was a bit of a surprise to have them tap me on the shoulder and say "Coo-ee!" in the form of this... dirty, electro-dance thing. Didn't like it at all. Then I kept on hearing it on the radio and ended up falling in love with it, a bit. That's actually what turned me from a one-time casual listener into a proper fan. Wonderful song. Blah blah blah, me me me, there's a point in here somewhere. I dunno. I'm not surprised that they're alienated. That's the moral, I guess.

I don't think any of their albums are any less than great, though. The Resistance is a collection of very good songs. Showbiz opens with Sunburn! Then goes into Muscle Museum! Plus, Falling Down and Unintended. Brilliant music. The other three are more or less classic. For me, The Resistance was a comedown, but then Black Holes is one of my very favourite albums - it was more or less going to be.

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Re: Black Holes and Revelations
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2010, 05:35:41 AM »
Ohhh, I dunno! Undisclosed Desires is nigh-on R&B. Absolution sounds very classical in places, whereas Resistance is more eighties synthy...
What? :lol I get the impression you're basing these descriptions on one song each (Butterflies & Hurricanes and Uprising). You're absolutely right that Muse have a ton of variety, but they always have done with the possible exception of OoS which was a bit more straightforward stylistically, and they are like that on each and every album. Each album has a couple of rockers, at least one song more classical in nature, one or two ballads, one or two pop songs.

Obviously everyone is going to prefer some albums over others, that's not what I'm referring to. I'm referring to comments along the lines of "Black Holes was incredible but The Resistance is the biggest shitfest ever" (nothing specific in this thread, but it's the kind of comment you hear occasionally). Considering how similar the two albums are in so many regards, the breadth of this difference is what astonishes me and leads me to feel like the two albums are not being judged by the same criteria.

EDIT: Oh and I don't really get the UD=RnB thing (my brother said it as well). Sure the drum beat is somewhat lifted from that style of music, but I've honestly never heard an RnB song that sounds like UD. Although if there are any I'd love someone to point them out because I don't really have any RnB in my music collection but UD is one of my favourite Muse songs!

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