Favorite band vs best band

[In The Wake Of Poseidon]

I know that The Godfather is a better movie then Dead Alive, it has better writing, direction, all that fun stuff. But my favorite is still Dead Alive because it appeals to me more, and I enjoy it more.

[ariich]

Port, I'd understand it if you said "best band at..." and then whatever, so as a random example, "I think Pain of Salvation are the best at portraying emotions", or "I think Mr. Bungle were the best at creatively blending different styles". But "I think X is the best band", implies that you've analysed and weighed up all the different possible criteria that you consider important to come to a conclusion, and that for some reason the criteria you've picked as important differ from what makes you actually like music, which seems quite odd to me.

Music is an art form, and so surely whether it succeeds (and is therefore good) is based on the effect it has on the listener?

Sorry if that's a bit philosophical.

[Portrucci]

Port, I'd understand it if you said "best band at..." and then whatever, so as a random example, "I think Pain of Salvation are the best at portraying emotions", or "I think Mr. Bungle were the best at creatively blending different styles". But "I think X is the best band", implies that you've analysed and weighed up all the different possible criteria that you consider important to come to a conclusion, and that for some reason the criteria you've picked as important differ from what makes you actually like music, which seems quite odd to me.

Music is an art form, and so surely whether it succeeds (and is therefore good) is based on the effect it has on the listener?

Sorry if that's a bit philosophical.

I think what ITWOP said is pretty much what I was trying to get across. I agree that one can't possibly take into account every criteria known to man, but I think most people who have a general idea of what musicians do and how music is created, can understand that there are quite a few categories in which an artist may excel. Over the years, there have been many great artists, and some who have managed to satisfy most, if not all of those criteria (IMO of course). These are the bands I consider "best" (in their genre or otherwise). However, all these criteria go out the window when dealing with favourites, at least for me. Because then, all I care about then is actual aural pleasure. I can't really describe the various things that appeal to me, but I know when they do. So I think that's where the two approaches differ.

[ehra]

I remember a post Reapsta made in the movie thread where he said that preferences may be subjective but that there are certain more objective measurements you can judge a movie by, such as actor performance for example. The subjectivity in this case comes from how well you feel the movie compares to those objective measures, which is why you may see people arguing over if, say, 2001 or Citizen Kane are the best movies.

But then you have to deal with the "problem" of how important each person thinks any of those individual measurements really are. As long as it doesn't detract from their enjoyment of the movie, should anyone really be obliged to rate a movie based on, say, it's cinematography?

But, ignoring that for a moment, what objective measurements should a musician, band, or song be judged by?

[Portrucci]

There is no objectivity in art. That wasn't what I was arguing. I was arguing that there IS a distinction between the best and favourite, while some argue that there isn't. I don't think anyone can adequately answer your question that you bolded.

[ehra]

There is no objectivity in art.

To a degree there is. For example, if you've got an action scene with "AWESOME SHAKY CAMERA, YEAH" but the viewer can't see what's going on then the scene's tension is relieved. And if an action scene has no tension then it can said that, objectively, it's not a particularly effective scene (even though plenty of people may still enjoy it for whatever reason).

I mean, you said you agree with how ITWOP put it. But for The Godfather to be a better movie than Dead Alive because of its "writing, direction, all that fun stuff" then those things have to be inherently more "important" than "I enjoy it more."

[Portrucci]

for The Godfather to be a better movie than Dead Alive because of its "writing, direction, all that fun stuff" then those things have to be inherently more "important" than "I enjoy it more."

Not more important.  Just easily recognizable as qualities of a great movie. As most of us have a general understanding to the degree of skill and creativity involved in making a movie. And for all that skill, it comes down to simple human emotion. If you don't like it, you don't like it. Regardless of how perfectly it fits any criteria you come up with.  

[ehra]

Then what's the point of the distinction? Aren't you just saying at that point "I like this song for these things but I like this other song more because of these things"?

edit: I don't see how you can making a distinction between "movie I like" and "great movie" while also arguing that the things that make a movie "great" aren't "more important" than the things that make you like the movie. Better means better.

[ariich]

Then what's the point of the distinction? Aren't you just saying at that point "I like this song for these things but I like this other song more because of these things"?

edit: I don't see how you can making a distinction between "movie I like" and "great movie" while also arguing that the things that make a movie "great" aren't "more important" than the things that make you like the movie. Better means better.

That's essentially my problem with it. It just means that there are different criteria, which in itself is fair enough, but then the words "best" and "favourite" become pretty arbitrary because nobody is sure what any individual means by them.

[ehra]

Still hoping I can get some discussion on the second part of the OP as well 

[sirbradford117]

(didn't read the whole thread yet... my apologies.)

The problem I encounter is not comparing *favorite band* vs. *best band*, but rather "favorite album" and "best album" by each band I listen to.

For example, my favorite Beatles record is the "White Album."  Technically, musically, production-ally, innovatively, and historically speaking, however, Sgt. Pepper is the best them  .  Abbey Road is also overall a better record IMHO.  However, these albums are my 5th and 2nd favorite albums by the Beatles, respectively.  The "White Album" has just always been my favorite... it's one of those "sum of its parts" albums.

[BRGM]

Dream Theater=My fav band
Dream Theater=The best band

[bodiesinflight]

Kirk Cobain.

It would be nice if you could get his name right 
For what it's worth, Cobain was actually a hugely underrated guitarist; no, he wasn't technically brilliant but he was far better than most give him credit for and he had a unique style (something most don't - I mean Petrucci is an incredible player but he's not exactly unique).

For me, my favourite band is Biffy Clyro. This is purely because I feel more of an attachment to them than any other band, they have been a huge part of my life for several years now and thus they are my 'favourite' even though I'd consider Oceansize and Radiohead as bands that, musically, are actually far more catered to what I want and therefore 'better' in my opinion.

Dunno if that made much sense

[ehra]

God dammit, I scanned through that sentence 5 times knowing I messed something up but not being able to find it. 

Yes, both things you said make sense.

[bodiesinflight]

God dammit, I scanned through that sentence 5 times knowing I messed something up but not being able to find it. 

I know, sometimes the more carefully you look over something the more likely you are to miss a mistake!  I do it all the time