Author Topic: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years  (Read 38289 times)

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Offline ThroughHerEyesDude6

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #105 on: September 03, 2010, 01:36:18 PM »
First band that came to mind is Mastodon
Then Tool
Then Opeth
Then Mastodon
Then Opeth
Then Tool
Then Opeth
Then Mastodon
Then Opeth
Then Mastodon
Then Opeth...

Opeth is my answer

Offline Birch Boy

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #106 on: September 03, 2010, 02:21:18 PM »
Tool is another good choice

>implying Linkin Park is metal
>Implying Linkin Park is good
No I wasn't

Offline Seventh Son

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #107 on: September 03, 2010, 02:24:16 PM »
Tool is another good choice

>implying Linkin Park is metal
>Implying Linkin Park is good
No I wasn't

Not you, the person that mentioned LP in the first place.
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Offline Birch Boy

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #108 on: September 03, 2010, 02:25:57 PM »
Tool is another good choice

>implying Linkin Park is metal
>Implying Linkin Park is good
No I wasn't

Not you, the person that mentioned LP in the first place.
Ah, then in that case I replace my "No I wasn't" with "This"

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #109 on: September 03, 2010, 06:21:27 PM »
My gut reaction is "Dream Theater," followed by an insecure "but what will the metal purists say?" Then again, plenty of people are voting for Mastadon, Tool and Opeth, so who really gives a damn what the metal purists say ;)

But anyway, Dream Theater are one of the few metal bands to come out since the 90s (yes, I know they actually formed earlier but no-one knew who they were until the 90s) who've been able to carry the torch for metal. I also think DT have managed to be pretty darn influential on the world scale, and have actually added to what the genre of metal can mean.  I doubt there would be as much Symphonic, Progressive and Power metal if it weren't for Dream Theater. I also doubt there'd be as many bands like BtBaM and so on.

So yeah, Dream Theater.


Offline orcus116

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #110 on: September 03, 2010, 06:38:31 PM »
I think you're greatly exaggerating their influence. And adding to the genre? Their metal sections are pretty damn by the books in comparison to other metal bands. I can see why you want to pick them because of those bands you mentioned but I mean Opeth actually has made some genuinely great metal and Mastodon right now (at least Crack The Skye) is writing the type of riffs that Dream Theater has the capacity to do but just won't. They're being way more creative with the genre now than Dream Theater has in a very, very long time.

Offline Zeltar

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #111 on: September 03, 2010, 06:47:41 PM »
Metallica was my gut reaction. Then after I thought about it for a few minutes, my answer is still Metallica.

Offline ACID_FOX

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #112 on: September 03, 2010, 07:22:59 PM »
Gonna have to go with Tool.
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Offline Seventh Son

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #113 on: September 03, 2010, 07:32:49 PM »
I think you're greatly exaggerating their influence. And adding to the genre? Their metal sections are pretty damn by the books in comparison to other metal bands. I can see why you want to pick them because of those bands you mentioned but I mean Opeth actually has made some genuinely great metal and Mastodon right now (at least Crack The Skye) is writing the type of riffs that Dream Theater has the capacity to do but just won't. They're being way more creative with the genre now than Dream Theater has in a very, very long time.

I strongly disagree, I never found Mastodon to be really creative at all, and later day Opeth is very stale for me. I do agree that DT needs to be a lot more creative though. I'm hoping they can only get better. Black Clouds was good, but I can't help but feel they're leaving something on the table with that release. Maybe they do need some kind of tension to stir the pot and come up with something truly great.
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Offline skydivingninja

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #114 on: September 03, 2010, 09:53:51 PM »
Crack the Skye is one of the most musically unique albums of all time.  OF ALL TIME.  Its a huge experiment for them and the rest of the metal world, to be shown what can be done with all of Mastodon's wide range of influences.  It actually makes me sad when I look forward to their next album, because they've reached their zenith.  Everything else will be compared to CTS forever unless by some miracle they make a better album, which would be the greatest achievement in metal history as far as I'm concerned.

Offline In The Wake Of Poseidon

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #115 on: September 03, 2010, 10:29:37 PM »
It actually makes me sad when I look forward to their next album, because they've reached their zenith.  Everything else will be compared to CTS forever unless by some miracle they make a better album, which would be the greatest achievement in metal history as far as I'm concerned.
Replace this with Blood Mountain and I might agree.

Offline Sigz

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #116 on: September 03, 2010, 10:55:07 PM »
I think you're greatly exaggerating their influence.

Agreed. I'd certainly say that bands like BTBAM would probably be in a different place, but that influence hardly extends outside the prog world.

But either way, the question is best band, not most influential.
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Offline In The Wake Of Poseidon

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #117 on: September 03, 2010, 11:17:16 PM »
I would say that DT's influence in metal is pretty large, I mean, they pretty much one of the first bands out there to do Progressive Metal. Nearly everything progressive metal related in the last 10 years has something to owe to DT.

Offline orcus116

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #118 on: September 04, 2010, 12:09:12 AM »
I can't agree with the results, though. At immediate look, the bands that base themselves off of DT (Pagans Mind, Circus Maximus) don't do much aside from establish themselves as clone bands and do absolutely nothing for the genre. Then look at the effect on a band like BTBAM. They did great with Colors when they used their own sound and tried to get more technical, almost Dream Theater like. Then came along The Great Misdirect when they incorporated that sound as their main priority and it turned out really bad. Granted that's not really a fault of Dream Theater but their imitators haven't really done shit to progress the music passed the point at which they already brought it to.

Offline In The Wake Of Poseidon

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #119 on: September 04, 2010, 12:35:02 AM »
But that can happen  to anything really. Look at something like WoW, it has no doubt had a huge influence on video games. Yet, every MMO that has come out recently has been a WoW clone, with a few exceptions. There are always going to be imitators, and there will always be the man who tries to does his own thing, while still having a influence set by the previous standard.

Offline Sigz

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #120 on: September 04, 2010, 12:45:01 AM »
I still don't see how being influential has anything to do with being 'the best', or even quality in general.
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Offline Gadough

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #121 on: September 04, 2010, 12:59:07 AM »
I still don't see how being influential has anything to do with being 'the best', or even quality in general.

I agree.

I love Black Sabbath. I love Tony Iommi. But I rage my face off every time Sabbath tops a "Greatest Metal Bands" list and Iommi tops a "Greatest Metal Guitarists" list. Yeah, they influenced everyone who followed them and were incredibly important to the formation of the genre. But that sure as shit doesn't make them the best. There are countless metal bands that formed in their wake, and thanks to Sabbath opening the door for them, are much better bands. Yet Sabbath still tops those lists, because people can't make the distinction between influence and quality for some bizarre reason. It's really quite a simple concept.
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Offline Fluffy Lothario

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #122 on: September 04, 2010, 01:09:10 AM »
Either that, or they really like Sabbath, and consider them the best.

Offline In The Wake Of Poseidon

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #123 on: September 04, 2010, 01:44:43 AM »
I still don't see how being influential has anything to do with being 'the best', or even quality in general.
It doesn't, I was just commenting on a comments made earlier.

Offline sneakyblueberry

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #124 on: September 04, 2010, 06:14:45 AM »
Bruce Dickinson

In my opinion, Accident of Birth and Chemical Wedding are the best two metal albums to come out in the last two decades and Tyrrany of Souls isn't too shabby itself.

I know that the topic is "metal band" but, he had the same line-up on these two albums and their output was simply amazing. Quality above quantity.

I agree that CW is, Accident has a little too much filler for my liking.  Don't forget that every Bruce album pre-Tribe of Gypsies were pretty average.  From my perspective anyway.  Accident - CW - TOS is a brilliant 3 album run.

I think that there's some good stuff on Balls to Picasso(laughing in the hiding bush, tears of the dragon) but, the over all production of the album makes it suffer. It could be argued that it's also a ToG album also, though. And the first three tracks on Skunkworks are really great songs but, that album gets a lot of slack because it's so much different.

The first solo album......meh....not very good at all.

I really like the Halford albums as well. In my opinion, Roy Z makes any project that he's a part of that much better by his presence alone lol...

yeah I was counting Balls... as a Gypsies album

Offline Bombardana

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #125 on: September 04, 2010, 06:53:01 AM »
I still don't see how being influential has anything to do with being 'the best', or even quality in general.

I agree.

I love Black Sabbath. I love Tony Iommi. But I rage my face off every time Sabbath tops a "Greatest Metal Bands" list and Iommi tops a "Greatest Metal Guitarists" list. Yeah, they influenced everyone who followed them and were incredibly important to the formation of the genre. But that sure as shit doesn't make them the best. There are countless metal bands that formed in their wake, and thanks to Sabbath opening the door for them, are much better bands. Yet Sabbath still tops those lists, because people can't make the distinction between influence and quality for some bizarre reason. It's really quite a simple concept.
It depends how you look at what can be considered "greatest". Ace of Spades regularly comes up as one of the best metal songs ever in lists like the ones you mentioned, and that is mostly to do with its legacy and recoginition, not necessarily its quality. I still think it's a good song in and of itself, but a major consideration of its ranking, as indeed will be with most lists, is that legacy/recognition factor.

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #126 on: September 04, 2010, 06:58:55 AM »
I think you're greatly exaggerating their influence. And adding to the genre? Their metal sections are pretty damn by the books in comparison to other metal bands. I can see why you want to pick them because of those bands you mentioned but I mean Opeth actually has made some genuinely great metal and Mastodon right now (at least Crack The Skye) is writing the type of riffs that Dream Theater has the capacity to do but just won't. They're being way more creative with the genre now than Dream Theater has in a very, very long time.

Sure, Dream Theater has become a bit less influential in the past ten years, but just focusing on their decline would be severely downplaying their influence throughout the 90s. I think it's pretty easy to see how Dream Theater impacted metal music. Even if bands like Opeth are more original now (which, honestly, I don't think so-- I have many Opeth albums, and while I like them, they all sound more or less like the same thing) I really don't see how Opeth are important to metal. They're important, sure, but not to metal. Maybe important to a rather cliquish niche of progressive rock music. Then again, maybe there's not really any real metal scene anymore to  be an important part of.

This, I think, lends to the assertion that Dream Theater are the most important metal band of the past twenty years, as Dream Theater are one of the-- if not the-- last important metal bands. Often times, in the world of "art," the last important figures of a particular genre are also some of the most excessive, self-indulgent and controversial. For some, "Watchmen" represents the zenith of what graphic novels could be. For others, it is symbolic of the end of the medium-- it's so overblown that it no longer is in touch with the initial "nature" of what of graphic novel is supposed to be. Another good example is John Milton. For a lot of people, he's the last great epic poet. For later critics, here's an example of where poetry went horribly horribly wrong and became more about style than emotion.

This, for me anyway, perfectly sums up Dream Theater. Because of Dream Theater's technical expertise and theoretical approach to metal, some people would argue that they represent metal in its most perfect form. For others, they represent the point where metal has become so disconnected from what it's supposed to be-- about energy, passion, etc-- that it's killed the genre.

So think what you want about them and their influence, for better or worse. At the end of the day, though, they were the only ones really holding the torch when everything crumbled.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2010, 07:07:20 AM by Perpetual Change »

Offline ehra

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #127 on: September 04, 2010, 07:09:21 AM »
I still don't see how being influential has anything to do with being 'the best', or even quality in general.

I agree.

I love Black Sabbath. I love Tony Iommi. But I rage my face off every time Sabbath tops a "Greatest Metal Bands" list and Iommi tops a "Greatest Metal Guitarists" list. Yeah, they influenced everyone who followed them and were incredibly important to the formation of the genre. But that sure as shit doesn't make them the best. There are countless metal bands that formed in their wake, and thanks to Sabbath opening the door for them, are much better bands. Yet Sabbath still tops those lists, because people can't make the distinction between influence and quality for some bizarre reason. It's really quite a simple concept.

Why do so many people assume that anyone who loves an older, influential band only loves them because they feel they need to "respect teh classics!"?

Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #128 on: September 04, 2010, 09:20:19 AM »
I still don't see how being influential has anything to do with being 'the best', or even quality in general.

I agree.

I love Black Sabbath. I love Tony Iommi. But I rage my face off every time Sabbath tops a "Greatest Metal Bands" list and Iommi tops a "Greatest Metal Guitarists" list. Yeah, they influenced everyone who followed them and were incredibly important to the formation of the genre. But that sure as shit doesn't make them the best. There are countless metal bands that formed in their wake, and thanks to Sabbath opening the door for them, are much better bands. Yet Sabbath still tops those lists, because people can't make the distinction between influence and quality for some bizarre reason. It's really quite a simple concept.

Two points:

1) First you say you get mad when people call Sabbath a 'great' band then you say you get mad when people call Sabbath the 'best' band. There is an important distinction to be made. 'Great' implies influence, popularity, reputation, etc. 'Best' implies sheer quality; best discography, songs, etc.

So if you do not think Sabbath has the best discography or songs, then I understand. But there is no arguing Sabbath's greatness.

2) If I have made a mistake, forgive me, but you seem to be doing an unjust disservice to Sabbath's quality. Beyond the songs everyone knows - "Paranoid", "War Pigs", "Sweet Leef", Iron Man", etc. - they are actually a very eclectic band. Beginning with Vol. 4, they started to experiment in super interesting ways while maintaining an astronomically high quality throughout.
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Offline MetalManiac666

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #129 on: September 04, 2010, 09:31:49 AM »
Yup.  People still listen to Black Sabbath because they made awesome music, not because they were one of the pioneers of metal.

Offline Fluffy Lothario

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #130 on: September 04, 2010, 09:51:36 AM »
Beginning with Vol. 4, they started to experiment in super interesting ways while maintaining an astronomically high quality throughout.
BS were experimenting before they'd even released an album. They just started pushing it a bit harder after MOR. Their sound was never really in a settled state.

Offline orcus116

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #131 on: September 04, 2010, 04:12:04 PM »
So think what you want about them and their influence, for better or worse. At the end of the day, though, they were the only ones really holding the torch when everything crumbled.

I just can't buy into that last sentence. I'd be kidding myself if I wanted to believe that Dream Theater influenced anyone outside of a handful of select bands, let alone change the course of an entire genre. Yeah they used to fuse technicality and metal in a very interesting direction but they hadn't really made an attempt at a truer metal song until "The Glass Prison" and aside from that song they haven't done anything of merit with that combo since. Very few of their metal riffs from that point have honestly wowed me to the point where I thought they were pushing new ground. If you want to talk about how they were instrumental in bringing technicality to the stage to elevate metal there are a lot of technical death metal bands my roommate has shown me that demonstrate more technical and theoretical approach to pure metal than Dream Theater has. Granted they're not my cup of tea and DT is much more tasteful in their approach but they are by no means close to the technical limit you're saying they pioneered compared to some other bands whose sole aim is to see how far they can push music theory.

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #132 on: September 04, 2010, 04:31:53 PM »
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Offline Gadough

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #133 on: September 04, 2010, 04:41:57 PM »
Why do so many people assume that anyone who loves an older, influential band only loves them because they feel they need to "respect teh classics!"?

...Because, in most of the lists I referred to (usually in music magazines, etc.) there's usually a small blurb about the band in question and why the editors feel they deserve that spot on the list. More often than not, the blurb goes on and on about influence and usually neglects to mention actual quality of the music. I'm just calling it like I see it. If the blurb said something like "Sabbath's meaty guitar riffs, inventive basslines, stellar drumming and soaring vocals combine to create a truly unique and enjoyable experience for metal listeners", I'd be cool with it. But whenever I pick up a music magazine that has such a list, and Sabbath tops it, it usually starts off by saying something like "The wide-ranging influence of this British quartet is undeniable. Universally accepted as the first true metal band, Sabbath is responsible for opening doors for every other band to walk through."

I dunno, maybe I'm just misinterpreting. But to me, that definitely sounds like a case of "RESPECT TEH CLASSICS" in place of respecting the actual music on terms of quality.

1) First you say you get mad when people call Sabbath a 'great' band then you say you get mad when people call Sabbath the 'best' band. There is an important distinction to be made. 'Great' implies influence, popularity, reputation, etc. 'Best' implies sheer quality; best discography, songs, etc.

So if you do not think Sabbath has the best discography or songs, then I understand. But there is no arguing Sabbath's greatness.

2) If I have made a mistake, forgive me, but you seem to be doing an unjust disservice to Sabbath's quality. Beyond the songs everyone knows - "Paranoid", "War Pigs", "Sweet Leef", Iron Man", etc. - they are actually a very eclectic band. Beginning with Vol. 4, they started to experiment in super interesting ways while maintaining an astronomically high quality throughout.

By your definition, I'm not denying Sabbath's "greatness." If it sounded like I was, that's on me. I'm fully aware of how influential and important they are. I'm not going to waste my time denying that, because their reputation is set in stone. My point was that I feel people take their reputation into consideration a little too heavily when weighing them against other bands.

Also, I like Sabbath. I've said that already. I'm a fan. I actually have the Black Box set, all the Dio albums, a Black Sabbath shirt I often wear, and a poster of Sabbath is hanging on one of my walls. Supernaut contains my second favorite guitar riff of all time. So, I'm not denying that they're a good band either - just that there are so many that are much, much better and deserve to be placed above them.
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Offline Marvellous G

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #134 on: September 04, 2010, 04:43:34 PM »
I agree with Gadough. That's why that recent drummer poll the BBC did amazed me with it's inclusions of people like Gavin Harrison and Mike Portnoy.

Offline ehra

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #135 on: September 04, 2010, 06:29:40 PM »
Why do so many people assume that anyone who loves an older, influential band only loves them because they feel they need to "respect teh classics!"?

...Because, in most of the lists I referred to (usually in music magazines, etc.) there's usually a small blurb about the band in question and why the editors feel they deserve that spot on the list. More often than not, the blurb goes on and on about influence and usually neglects to mention actual quality of the music. I'm just calling it like I see it. If the blurb said something like "Sabbath's meaty guitar riffs, inventive basslines, stellar drumming and soaring vocals combine to create a truly unique and enjoyable experience for metal listeners", I'd be cool with it. But whenever I pick up a music magazine that has such a list, and Sabbath tops it, it usually starts off by saying something like "The wide-ranging influence of this British quartet is undeniable. Universally accepted as the first true metal band, Sabbath is responsible for opening doors for every other band to walk through."

I dunno, maybe I'm just misinterpreting. But to me, that definitely sounds like a case of "RESPECT TEH CLASSICS" in place of respecting the actual music on terms of quality.

I seem to remember having this exact conversation with someone here before.

If they're only doing a small blurb for each band then it makes sense to me that a magazine is going to use that space to mention how influential they are. If their "best bands" list is nothing but classics then, yeah, I'd say you're on the money. But if it's a mix and they just mention how influential the influential bands are then I wouldn't look into it too much.

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #136 on: September 04, 2010, 06:52:37 PM »
So think what you want about them and their influence, for better or worse. At the end of the day, though, they were the only ones really holding the torch when everything crumbled.

I just can't buy into that last sentence. I'd be kidding myself if I wanted to believe that Dream Theater influenced anyone outside of a handful of select bands, let alone change the course of an entire genre.

Without Dream Theater, there'd probably be no Symphony X, Shadow Gallery, Pain of Salvation, Ayreon, Vaden Plas and (though no one is going to want to listen to this) I think its doubtful bands like Opeth (and, by extension, BtBaM, Cynic, etc) would have ever entered the progressive realm.  That, and I think you're forgetting how much of a musicians band DT are. You'd be hard-pressed to find a metal drummer who doesn't look up to Portnoy; a metal guitarist who doesn't like Petrucci; a keyboardist who doesn't idolize Kevin Moore or Jordan Rudess.
Yeah they used to fuse technicality and metal in a very interesting direction but they hadn't really made an attempt at a truer metal song until "The Glass Prison" and aside from that song they haven't done anything of merit with that combo since. Very few of their metal riffs from that point have honestly wowed me to the point where I thought they were pushing new ground.
I'm not really concerned with what they've done recently. There's plenty of interesting progressive metal coming from them from WDADU-SFAM.
If you want to talk about how they were instrumental in bringing technicality to the stage to elevate metal there are a lot of technical death metal bands my roommate has shown me that demonstrate more technical and theoretical approach to pure metal than Dream Theater has. Granted they're not my cup of tea and DT is much more tasteful in their approach but they are by no means close to the technical limit you're saying they pioneered compared to some other bands whose sole aim is to see how far they can push music theory.
But I'm guessing Dream Theater were doing it first. The most progressive metal got before Dream Theater was Queensryche and Fates Warning. And while Mike's humbly given both those bands true credit for forming the genre, neither came anywhere near the progressiveness DT reached with Images and Words.

Offline Gadough

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #137 on: September 04, 2010, 07:06:50 PM »
Why do so many people assume that anyone who loves an older, influential band only loves them because they feel they need to "respect teh classics!"?

...Because, in most of the lists I referred to (usually in music magazines, etc.) there's usually a small blurb about the band in question and why the editors feel they deserve that spot on the list. More often than not, the blurb goes on and on about influence and usually neglects to mention actual quality of the music. I'm just calling it like I see it. If the blurb said something like "Sabbath's meaty guitar riffs, inventive basslines, stellar drumming and soaring vocals combine to create a truly unique and enjoyable experience for metal listeners", I'd be cool with it. But whenever I pick up a music magazine that has such a list, and Sabbath tops it, it usually starts off by saying something like "The wide-ranging influence of this British quartet is undeniable. Universally accepted as the first true metal band, Sabbath is responsible for opening doors for every other band to walk through."

I dunno, maybe I'm just misinterpreting. But to me, that definitely sounds like a case of "RESPECT TEH CLASSICS" in place of respecting the actual music on terms of quality.

I seem to remember having this exact conversation with someone here before.

If they're only doing a small blurb for each band then it makes sense to me that a magazine is going to use that space to mention how influential they are. If their "best bands" list is nothing but classics then, yeah, I'd say you're on the money. But if it's a mix and they just mention how influential the influential bands are then I wouldn't look into it too much.

Fair enough.

And I think we have argued about this before, actually. This all seems very familiar. :lol
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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #138 on: September 04, 2010, 07:12:54 PM »
You are all wrong and here is the proof.


I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline Gadough

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Re: Best Metal Band of the Past 20 Years
« Reply #139 on: September 04, 2010, 07:14:37 PM »
Hard to argue against that.
Gadough isn't Hitler. He's much, much worse.