Author Topic: Do you think rock music right now is stagnant?  (Read 16561 times)

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Offline AwakeFromOctavarium

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Re: Do you think rock music right now is stagnant?
« Reply #70 on: August 31, 2010, 08:09:52 AM »
Well I just prefer 90's but then that doesn't make me a 80's hater or whatever. I honestly don't think there's any crappy decade for music because there was always at least a single or a couple of artists that shone.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Do you think rock music right now is stagnant?
« Reply #71 on: August 31, 2010, 08:35:09 AM »
As the year is winding down, I'm still eagerly awaiting the release of two albums--perhaps the only two albums of 2010 that I am the least bit excited about:  Symphony X and Alter Bridge.  Neither has a definite release date.  :(  It looks like the Alter Bridge album is released in mid-October in Europe, but doesn't yet have a U.S. release date.  SX hasn't updated since March, which is baffling.  It's been a slow year for music in terms of my own tastes.  But I guess that's okay.  Hopefully, we'll get a lot of good stuff next year.
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Offline Durg

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Re: Do you think rock music right now is stagnant?
« Reply #72 on: August 31, 2010, 08:38:30 AM »
I think so.  A little bit.  Don't get me wrong there's alot of good stuff out there but you have to really look for it.  For me, I  just need variety and I can get it now with iTunes, Napster, Pandora, Grooveshark. etc.  One day I can listen to Dream Theater and Opeth and the next I can listen to Moby and Allison Krauss.  We live in a ADD age where people have so many choices that everything gets diluted.  Rock music on the radio just can't satisfy the masses any more because we're so used to having more control and choices. And for me, having only discovered Dream Theater in the last year, I have even less trust in radio playing something good because they don't play them.  Even if I want to hear something on the radio that they do play I might have one station to choose from and I might have to wait through a ton of music I don't like before hearing something I do like. 

It seems to me that the only people that are satisfied with radio right now are the ones listening to hip hop and rap because there's so much of it right now.  But one day that will become stagnant as well. 


BTW I'm with the "80's were great" people.
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Offline zxlkho

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Re: Do you think rock music right now is stagnant?
« Reply #73 on: August 31, 2010, 08:55:03 AM »
No. If they want to find this music they can find it themselves... It's not exactly difficult to find.

This exactly.
Some people want to find good music, meanwhile others cant be bothered and just listens to whatever's on the radio/tv.
If you want to find something you can just look, it's not hard, why does everyone have to be spoon-fed?
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Offline The Curious Orange

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Re: Do you think rock music right now is stagnant?
« Reply #74 on: August 31, 2010, 08:59:31 AM »
Rock, and I feel this very strongly, is dead.

Rock today is fast becoming what jazz is - a specialist genre of music listened to by a few die-hards who can't move on, and viewed by most everyone else as some sort of joke.
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Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: Do you think rock music right now is stagnant?
« Reply #75 on: August 31, 2010, 09:45:29 AM »
why does everyone have to be spoon-fed?

Because today's world has bred legions of kids with entitlement issues who think the whole world should be handed to them on a silver platter.

As mentioned in another thread, I play in a band and part of my responsibility to to listen to new stuff that's popular, to decide if it's something we should/could play.  Generally, I hate most of what I hear nowadays.  With very few exceptions - I've grown to be a big fan of ZO2 and have heard Burn Halo's "Save Me", which sounded pretty kick ass, so I'd like to check out more of their stuff.

In general, my personal feeling is that today's music (this is going to sound stereotypical, so spare me the lectures, I know it isn't ALL this way) comes across to me as more "Woe is me, my life sucks, it's so hard being a multi-millionaire touring act", complete with very downtuned guitars which (again, IMO) add to the dreariness and make it easier for the singer to sing (when they are actually singing).

The reason I always bang the 80's drum (hair metal, especially) is that it was upbeat and fun.  It was about partying and drinking and f*cking and having a good time, universal topics that everyone has the capacity to appreciate.  It made you want to go party and drink and f*ck and have a good time, yourself.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Do you think rock music right now is stagnant?
« Reply #76 on: August 31, 2010, 10:11:40 AM »
80s music was awesome.

For the 193rd time, Nirvana did not kill hair metal.  It was already on life support when they came along.

The music scene is so different now than it used to be, it is almost impossible for a single rock band to make a huge splash and be almost universally known and loved. 

Offline bosk1

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Re: Do you think rock music right now is stagnant?
« Reply #77 on: August 31, 2010, 10:28:56 AM »
For the 193rd time, Nirvana did not kill hair metal.  It was already on life support when they came along.

No, I think there is a valid argument that grunge did temporarily kill hair metal (using the term generically for most '80s rock as a whole).  Granted, the genre had become bloated with a lot of no-talent acts that had the same schtick, and that was also a problem.  But a big issue is that there was a lot of turnover at the record companies and a changing feeling as to what to push and what not to push, and a lot of really good bands that had a lot to offer suddenly found themselves unable to function simply because they had their label support pulled out from under them and could get no backing for recording albums and booking tours.  Some of the better and/or bigger bands either ground it out or disappeared and then later resurfaced after the tide changed again and things changed in the industry to allow bands to do things more on their own terms.  But a lot of good music disappeared simply because the industry pulled the plug on it financially in favor of the latest fad (grunge).  It's not Nirvana's (or any other band's) fault, but that is exactly what happened.

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Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: Do you think rock music right now is stagnant?
« Reply #78 on: August 31, 2010, 10:34:46 AM »
Is it okay if I continue to blame Nirvana for it, though?

Offline bosk1

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Re: Do you think rock music right now is stagnant?
« Reply #79 on: August 31, 2010, 10:36:13 AM »
I think it's a moral imperative. 
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Do you think rock music right now is stagnant?
« Reply #80 on: August 31, 2010, 10:37:59 AM »
The 80s were awesome.  The 80s were also pretty bad.

Just like every other decade.
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Offline skydivingninja

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Re: Do you think rock music right now is stagnant?
« Reply #81 on: August 31, 2010, 10:40:22 AM »
Is it okay if I continue to blame Nirvana for it, though?
Have you seen "The Wrestler," Cozmo?  There's a scene that made me think of you and Blob.  Mickey Rourke and the girl are listening to (I think) Motley Crue, and Mickey says "That pussy Cobain showed up and ruined it for everyone.  Who decided it was a crime for having a good time?" or something like that.  Followed by "The 90s fucking sucked."

Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: Do you think rock music right now is stagnant?
« Reply #82 on: August 31, 2010, 10:42:40 AM »
I think it's a moral imperative. 

It kinda is, really.  Also, when mentioning how a lot of bands disappeared altogether, due to the management rug being pulled out from under them, I believe this band was likely one of them:

https://video.yahoo.com/watch/2031089/v2162340


Is it okay if I continue to blame Nirvana for it, though?
Have you seen "The Wrestler," Cozmo?  There's a scene that made me think of you and Blob.  Mickey Rourke and the girl are listening to (I think) Motley Crue, and Mickey says "That pussy Cobain showed up and ruined it for everyone.  Who decided it was a crime for having a good time?" or something like that.  Followed by "The 90s fucking sucked."

I can't think of any better way to sum it up, really.   :tup

Offline Durg

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Re: Do you think rock music right now is stagnant?
« Reply #83 on: August 31, 2010, 10:45:52 AM »
1960s - end of Doo Wop
1970s - end of the hippies & the british invasion
1980s - end of disco
1990s - end of hair bands
2000s - end of grunge
2010s - ???   end of.....???  :justjen

Rock is too broad of a category to discuss the end of it.  Rock will never die.  It'll just transform
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Offline Samsara

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Re: Do you think rock music right now is stagnant?
« Reply #84 on: August 31, 2010, 10:52:06 AM »
For the 193rd time, Nirvana did not kill hair metal.  It was already on life support when they came along.

No, I think there is a valid argument that grunge did temporarily kill hair metal (using the term generically for most '80s rock as a whole).  Granted, the genre had become bloated with a lot of no-talent acts that had the same schtick, and that was also a problem.  But a big issue is that there was a lot of turnover at the record companies and a changing feeling as to what to push and what not to push, and a lot of really good bands that had a lot to offer suddenly found themselves unable to function simply because they had their label support pulled out from under them and could get no backing for recording albums and booking tours.  Some of the better and/or bigger bands either ground it out or disappeared and then later resurfaced after the tide changed again and things changed in the industry to allow bands to do things more on their own terms.  But a lot of good music disappeared simply because the industry pulled the plug on it financially in favor of the latest fad (grunge).  It's not Nirvana's (or any other band's) fault, but that is exactly what happened.



Nirvana was the poster child, nothing more. "Grunge," (aka the type of music that had an angst to it with simpler song structures) did put an axe to the more free-spirited party-metal music, sure. But grunge was the music of the time with the bands getting their start in 1990-1991, and those bands and musicians were feeling something totally different than the excess of the 1980s.

I personally don't blame Nirvana at all, I blame fans for turning on bands they were loyal to. Blame ourselves. Instead of liking everything, we (meaning society at large) discarded what we enjoyed and looked for something different to latch onto. And we did. Nirvana did nothing more than play some simple chords that uh, struck a chord with youth that were feeling something totally different than the youth of the 1980s.
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Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Do you think rock music right now is stagnant?
« Reply #85 on: August 31, 2010, 10:56:07 AM »
I didn't mind grunge at all, I hated the newer bands after grunge that drop tuned, didn't play a full bar chord and stoped doing solos.
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Offline In The Name Of Rudess

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Re: Do you think rock music right now is stagnant?
« Reply #86 on: August 31, 2010, 11:03:13 AM »
Rock, and I feel this very strongly, is dead.

Rock today is fast becoming what jazz is - a specialist genre of music listened to by a few die-hards who can't move on, and viewed by most everyone else as some sort of joke.

Rock and jazz can't be compared. Jazz is a seperate genre, rock is basically just pop music from a theoretical point.

Jazz isn't dead. There are still many professional jazz musicians that are able to make a living and it is still widely taught both privately and at conservatories. It has just largely turned into a interpretive art form, like classical music. And even in this form it still allows for a lot of creative freedom through improvisation. This is why it probably won't die anytime soon.

On the other hand, rock music, being pop music, allows for even less creative freedom than classical music. This is the main reason I don't see rock music turning into an interpretive art form like jazz. So I very strongly doubt that anyone will still listen/play rock 20 years from now when all the original artists are gone.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Do you think rock music right now is stagnant?
« Reply #87 on: August 31, 2010, 11:07:13 AM »
I blame fans for turning on bands they were loyal to. Blame ourselves. Instead of liking everything, we (meaning society at large) discarded what we enjoyed and looked for something different to latch onto.

Yes, that's the other important component to this.  But fads change, and the larger group of more casual fans will also change with the tide.  I just can't discount the effect of the industry and the series of decisions as to what to promote and what not to promote.  Large numbers of fans still did clamor for good '80s rock, which is why it was able to come back.  But the industry was slow to respond and was stuck in a mindset that it could dictate what the fans can and cannot consume. 
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Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: Do you think rock music right now is stagnant?
« Reply #88 on: August 31, 2010, 11:09:10 AM »
we (meaning society at large) discarded what we enjoyed and looked for something different to latch onto

True and it sucks.  It's like some sort of virus infected the music scene and said "look sloppy, play sloppy, sing sloppy, and don't worry about being awesome at your instrument".

I pride myself on not having compromised my tastes for what was the flavor of the moment, though.

Offline Durg

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Re: Do you think rock music right now is stagnant?
« Reply #89 on: August 31, 2010, 11:15:34 AM »
we (meaning society at large) discarded what we enjoyed and looked for something different to latch onto

True and it sucks.  It's like some sort of virus infected the music scene and said "look sloppy, play sloppy, sing sloppy, and don't worry about being awesome at your instrument".

I pride myself on not having compromised my tastes for what was the flavor of the moment, though.

Oh man.  I am soo on the right message board!   ;D

This is exactly the way I see it too.
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Offline In The Name Of Rudess

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Re: Do you think rock music right now is stagnant?
« Reply #90 on: August 31, 2010, 11:20:37 AM »
we (meaning society at large) discarded what we enjoyed and looked for something different to latch onto

True and it sucks.  It's like some sort of virus infected the music scene and said "look sloppy, play sloppy, sing sloppy, and don't worry about being awesome at your instrument".

Technically speaking this started about 100 years ago when classical music was suddenly no longer the biggest genre. Compared to classical musicians even the members of Dream Theater play sloppy. Not to mention "musicians" like the members of Nirvana. Hell, nowadays most people in hip-hop can't even play an instrument. And I don't see this improving in the future as children are becoming less and less motivated to do something that takes effort without getting a direct reward, like learning to play an instrument well.

Offline zxlkho

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Re: Do you think rock music right now is stagnant?
« Reply #91 on: August 31, 2010, 11:21:12 AM »
Oh man.  I am soo on the right message board!   ;D

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Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: Do you think rock music right now is stagnant?
« Reply #92 on: August 31, 2010, 11:26:24 AM »
Oh man.  I am soo on the right message board!   ;D

This is exactly the way I see it too.

:tup


Technically speaking this started about 100 years ago when classical music was suddenly no longer the biggest genre. Compared to classical musicians even the members of Dream Theater play sloppy. Not to mention "musicians" like the members of Nirvana. Hell, nowadays most people in hip-hop can't even play an instrument. And I don't see this improving in the future as children are becoming less and less motivated to do something that takes effort without getting a direct reward, like learning to play an instrument well.

While this is probably quite true, I wasn't around 100 years ago.  :lol  I think that around that time is when I was really starting to get into music.  I'd been getting serious into it for a few years when Nirvana and the like came around, so that's why it seemed like such a dramatic change, to me.  A lot of the bands of the late 80's did care.  They dressed over the top, they lived the lifestyle, they were technically pretty damned good.  Then came grunge.  Total about-face, in my eyes.  Playing fast meant apparently no feeling or soul - which I interpreted as "a convenient excuse for why I'm not that good at my instrument".

Offline skydivingninja

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Re: Do you think rock music right now is stagnant?
« Reply #93 on: August 31, 2010, 12:30:02 PM »
I remember that Blind Melon interview you posted where they tore apart "Pull Me Under" because DT was playing fast for the sake of being fast or something.  Now the singer of Blind Melon killed himself/OD'd years ago and now they're basically trying to resurrect themselves a la Thin Lizzy but ultimately failing.  I too hate the argument that playing fast means there's no emotion.  "The Best of Times" solo is an example I will always pull out to show people.

Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: Do you think rock music right now is stagnant?
« Reply #94 on: August 31, 2010, 12:33:49 PM »
I remember posting that.  ;)  Illustrates my point well.

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=7781.msg244511#msg244511

Offline LudwigVan

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Re: Do you think rock music right now is stagnant?
« Reply #95 on: August 31, 2010, 03:44:23 PM »
Rock music, by its very nature and history, is a type of music that is predicated on "shocking the establishment", an idea which goes all the way back to Elvis and Bob Dylan, on through The Who/Hendrix/Stones/Zeppelin/Sex Pistols/Metallica.  Rock has even taken to shocking its own "established" parameters, as when punk reacted against the complexity of prog, and grunge reacted to the excesses of hair-metal.  Throughout its history, it’s been a vicious cycle of action and reaction.  It almost didn't matter that one movement featured complex technical playing or whether it featured simplistic sloppy playing... just as long as it was diametrically opposed to the scene that came before it.  Like it or not, rock music has been about “trends”…. always striving to make the next big “splash”.  Rock has always had that ego-centric need to maintain its importance in the eyes of the public.

Looking at it from that perspective, rock music just doesn't hold much relevance anymore.   There’s no music “establishment” to rebel against, which makes it much harder for a single artist or movement to capture the imagination of the general populace.  And part of that comes from the splintering of rock (and the music industry in general) into myriad genres and sub-genres.  The way music is now distributed and listened to, people have the ability to zero in on their exact tastes and completely ignore whole genres of popular music altogether.  In the old days, there was one top 10 chart.  Now, there might be 5-6 top different charts depending on whether you decide to focus on R&B, Pop, Dance, Country, Latin, etc.   
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Offline ariich

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Re: Do you think rock music right now is stagnant?
« Reply #96 on: September 01, 2010, 01:34:25 PM »
On a whole, I agree with you.

The amount of great 70's and 80's songs that get played on the radio and tv, proves how shit most of the music of the last 20 years has become.
I tried to find a shred of logic in your post, but sadly there does not appear to be any.

Obviously the stuff from 20 years ago that still gets played is the good stuff, because the shit that nobody cares about anymore doesn't get played now. Whereas the music being made recently hasn't had to stand the test of time yet.

And furthermore, when the hell did "radio and tv" become the pinnacle of good music? :lol

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Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: Do you think rock music right now is stagnant?
« Reply #97 on: September 01, 2010, 01:47:18 PM »
Whereas the music being made recently hasn't had to likely won't stand the test of time yet.

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Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Do you think rock music right now is stagnant?
« Reply #98 on: September 01, 2010, 02:58:19 PM »
On a whole, I agree with you.

The amount of great 70's and 80's songs that get played on the radio and tv, proves how shit most of the music of the last 20 years has become.
I tried to find a shred of logic in your post, but sadly there does not appear to be any.

Obviously the stuff from 20 years ago that still gets played is the good stuff, because the shit that nobody cares about anymore doesn't get played now. Whereas the music being made recently hasn't had to stand the test of time yet.

And furthermore, when the hell did "radio and tv" become the pinnacle of good music? :lol

Back when radio wasn't big buisness it was all about good music.  When DJ's played album cuts, full sides of albums. That's when radio mattered.  Then corporations came in and made guidelines to play certain types of music.  Hence a playlist of songs to play.
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Offline ariich

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Re: Do you think rock music right now is stagnant?
« Reply #99 on: September 01, 2010, 03:07:54 PM »
Yeah exactly, these days radio is not a place to discover good music because the whole industry and distribution methods have changed.

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Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Do you think rock music right now is stagnant?
« Reply #100 on: September 01, 2010, 03:13:28 PM »
Record companies have shot themselves in the foot being greedy.  Trying to control a market like the digital era and not excepting it or putting their resources early on has forced music lovers to search elsewhere.  Bands now are releasing music online themselves.

We are in a brand new world of music distribution right now.
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