Porcupine Tree vs. Dream Theater

[ZKX-2099]

Dream Theater.

[?]

Dream Theater (I am not a PT fan)

[ReaperKK]

I'm actually really surprised over the PT > DT ratio here, considering this is a DT forum. Wow.

Very few bands have thriving online communities as successful as Dream Theater's.  I think a lot of people here are here just as much for the community as they are for Dream Theater.  People tend to stick around here even when they don't like Dream Theater so much anymore. Because the other people here are cool.

That's pretty much me, I rarely listen to DT anymore. I just like hanging out here.

[jag66]

Comparing the albums:

WDADU (6)   vs OTSOL (?.. at a guess 6-7)
I&W     (9.5) vs UTD (?.. at a guess 7-8)
Awake (9)    vs TSMS (8)
FII (7)         vs S (8)
SFAM (9.5)  vs SD (8.5)
SDOIT (9)    vs LS (8.5)
TOT (6.5)    vs IA (9.5)
O (7.5)        vs DW (9)
SC (6.5)      vs FOABP (8)
BC&SL (8)    vs TI (8)

I much prefer PT (as I got into them more recently), although the figures suggest there isn't much in it.
It looks like DT peaked early and PT later on, another possible reason for my preference to PT.

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

My scores:

WDaDU (4) vs. OtSoL (7)
I&W (9) vs. UtD (10)
Awake (10) vs. tSMS (10)
FII (2) vs. Signify (9.5)
SFaM (10) vs. Stupid Dream (8)
SDoIT (8.5) vs. Lightbulb Sun (6)
ToT (4) vs. In Absentia (8)
Octavarium (7) vs. Deadwing (7)
Systematic Chaos (10) vs. FoaBP (7)
BCaSL (7.5) vs. The Incident (2)

Ties count as zero for both. The score is DT: 4 PT: 4

So it's a tie.   You could probably tell from this that I absolutely love psych PT. I voted DT though because when they make a masterpiece, it hits me a lot harder than any band could ever hope for.

[In The Wake Of Poseidon]

Porcupine Tree have a few albums that I dig, but Dream Theater is the far greater band for me.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Between them, who has the best song? PT

Which song will that be?

Right now...

Dark Matter.

[zxlkho]

I thought this was a good way to compare, so I'll do it.

(Note: Scale is 1-10. The 12 is for being basically tied for my favorite album ever.)
WDaDU 5 vs. OtSoL 3
I&W 12 vs. UtD 6
Awake 9 vs. tSMS 7
FII 7 vs. Signify 8.5
SFaM 9 vs. Stupid Dream 9
SDoIT 9 vs. Lightbulb Sun 9.5
ToT 6 vs. In Absentia 12
Octavarium 8 vs. Deadwing 9.5
Systematic Chaos 6 vs. FoaBP 9
BCaSL 8.5 vs. The Incident 9


DT: 79.5    PT: 82.5
Albums - DT: 3    PT: 6    Push: 1
Best song - DT: Learning to Live    PT: Buying New Soul or Trains



PT wins.

[KevShmev]

When comparing the studio albums, let us not forget the MASSIVE advantage PT has in non-studio album work.

DT has ACOS (the song), Don't Look Past Me, the five FII non-album tracks, To Live Forever, Eve, Raw Dog, Bombay Vindaloo and a few Majesty songs, right?  That is less than 20 non-album track songs (if you count the Majesty songs as DT songs).  

PT has Recordings (9 songs), the Nil Recurring EP (4 songs), three or four non-album tracks from both IA and DW, Insignificance (10 songs, some of which, to be fair, are reworkings are previously recorded songs), Metanoia (8 songs), Voyage 34 (4 songs), Staircase Infinities (5 songs), some of the non-album songs from the Delirium Years (10+ songs, IIRC), Revenant, etc.

[zxlkho]

Yeah, Kev is right. PT's b-sides are better than most of their album songs as well.

[toro]

OTSOL vs WDADU= WDADU
UTDS vs I&W= I&W no doubt.
TSMS vs Awake= Awake.
Signify vs FII= Signify
SD vs SFAM= SFAM
LBS vs 6DOIT= 6DOIT
IA VS TOT= IA
DW vs 8VM= DW
FOABP vs SC= FOABP
TI vs BC&SL= Tie.

so DT but PT is my second favorite band.

[Perpetual Change]

I'm not sure if I'd count that as a big advantage. Though it has left Porcupine Tree with somewhat more consistent albums (i.e., there are plenty of Dream Theater albums that would have been better if the band had just decided to make them shorter by taking out the duds.  Systematic Chaos without TMOLS comes to mind), I'm not sure it affects my feelings about either band too much. Though I haven't heard the majority of PT's non-album stuff, that which I have heard has ranged from disappointing (Voyage 34) to not really warranting a reaction one way or another (Drown With Me).

Underlying it all are the major difference between PT and DT, though. I get the impression that Dream Theater orient around writing as much music as possible to release to the fans, making sure each album has somewhere near a full disc of music. In other words, quantity trumps the overall quality of the albums. Porcupine Tree are the exact opposite. Songs like "Drown With Me," while decent, don't make the cut because PT are more concerned with how the album works as a whole. The result is the fans get less music-at least at first- but what they do is stuff that may not really be that good anyway.  

But since everything gets released regardless in one for or another, it doesn't make a huge difference to me. Personally, I like Dream Theater's way of forgoing the additional cash-grab and just putting everything out there and letting the fans decide what they like and don't like better, and not without reason. I remember reading that if 6 Degrees couldn't be a double-disc album, the songs that would have been cut were Blind Faith and Disappear, which would have been terrible, since those are easily the best songs (for me) on that disc. Likewise, the FII b-sides are much better than a lot of the songs that actually made it onto the album.

But anyway, since we're talking about advantages outside of studio albums, I'd say Dream Theater definitely have the advantage when it comes to live releases. Between the 5 DVDs and CDs and all the official bootleg stuff, they do a pretty good job of catering to fans who like that kind of stuff. On the other hand, Porcupine Tree's live stuff is pretty sparse and, for me anyway, they're just not as fun to watch.

[skydivingninja]

PT doesn't cut all the crowd noise out of their concerts though.  But both are amazing as live bands, I'll agree.

[KevShmev]

PC, that is an awfully biased way of looking at it.  Okay, so when PT doesn't put everything on studio albums, instead putting it on other releases, it is a cash grab, but DT releasing a million live albums and DVDs isn't?  Really?  

And for the record, I don't have a problem with either band doing either of those things.

[Perpetual Change]

PC, that is an awfully biased way of looking at it.  Okay, so when PT doesn't put everything on studio albums, instead putting it on other releases, it is a cash grab, but DT releasing a million live albums and DVDs isn't?  Really?  

And for the record, I don't have a problem with either band doing either of those things.

Maybe "cash grab" was a little harsh.

[orcus116]

Especially when most of their B-sides and EPs come with the albums whose material they were written for nowadays at no additional cost. I don't buy the whole "let's just put everything on the album no matter what" viewpoint as being a good thing either. Putting potential duds and lacklusters songs/sections on an album because you don't want to cut it because you think you're cheating the fans is absurd, especially when it hurts the album as a whole. I repsect PT's tight editing a whole hell of a lot for that specific reason. While I might not love every song on an album the one thing their albums consistently have is incredible flow and an overall sound that just sounds "right".

[InTheNameOfGod]

PT.

But there are many bands i'd consider to be better than DT.

[skydivingninja]

I'm going to guess PoS is one of them?

[KevShmev]

Especially when most of their B-sides and EPs come with the albums whose material they were written for nowadays at no additional cost. I don't buy the whole "let's just put everything on the album no matter what" viewpoint as being a good thing either. Putting potential duds and lacklusters songs/sections on an album because you don't want to cut it because you think you're cheating the fans is absurd, especially when it hurts the album as a whole. I repsect PT's tight editing a whole hell of a lot for that specific reason. While I might not love every song on an album the one thing their albums consistently have is incredible flow and an overall sound that just sounds "right".

QFT.  I could not agree more.  With PT, it is all about making a perfect-sounding and flowing album, not just throwing everything up to 80 minutes on to a CD and saying, "Here ya go."   

[InTheNameOfGod]

I'm going to guess PoS is one of them?

Yes.

But that's not to say DT aren't a very good band. They got me into prog metal and I will always respect them for that. I just think there are better bands out there. Ones who might not be able to match them on a technical standpoint, but in terms of writing great music, i'd argue there's a handful of bands in this genre who have surpassed the talents of DT.

PT is indeed one of those bands. But i'd also argue that i'd never have gotten to this stage without DT being such an influence.

[PixelDream]

It's really apples and oranges, but really: Porcupine Tree. I used to drool over DT, but nowadays there are many bands with music that has a much deeper connection with me.

That said, I still like to bang my head to DT tunes, and I have tremendous respect for their music, their togetherness with the fans, etc. Everything is just top notch. And they absolutely rule as players. I just began to realise that some of their songs just aren't as good as I originally thought, when I was high on them. That high never comes back, except when I see them live. That's why I never pass a DT gig. Live, they absolutely rock the house.

[Pyroph]

More liek SLIPKNOT LOL1!!!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-11123906

[mizzl]

Porcupine Tree. No question. But I do like DT.

[AwakeFromOctavarium]

Dream Theater with no doubt. I enjoy some of PT's stuffs, like Signify, Stupid Dream, Lightbulb Sun and In Absentia, while I thoroughly enjoy DT's discography.

[YtseBitsySpider]

Epic.........epic fail in the results of this particular thread.
A sad sad day for me.

I hope this thread gets locked, burned and never spoken of again.

[AwakeFromOctavarium]

Epic.........epic fail in the results of this particular thread.
A sad sad day for me.

I hope this thread gets locked, burned and never spoken of again.

What? Why?

[Perpetual Change]

Epic.........epic fail in the results of this particular thread.
A sad sad day for me.

I hope this thread gets locked, burned and never spoken of again.

What? Why?

Yeah I don't get it. Like 2/3rds of the forum like DT better, and 1/3rd don't like PT at all.

[Dr. DTVT]

Umm..This is DTF NOT PTF..WTF!

PTF is a pretty bland place though. DTF is where all the cool PT fans go

[troll]

Maybe if PT were a better band PTF would be a better place 

[/troll]

[AwakeFromOctavarium]

Maybe if PT were a better band PTF would be a better place

[ACID_FOX]

More liek SLIPKNOT LOL1!!!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-11123906

"Jordison is noted for simultaneously playing two bass drums"

...

[AwakeFromOctavarium]

More liek SLIPKNOT LOL1!!!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-11123906

"Jordison is noted for simultaneously playing two bass drums"

...

Yeah they don't even listen to technical music!1!

[Perpetual Change]

Maybe if PT were a better band PTF would be a better place

Well, no, but, if you think about it, maybe.

A little bit of conflict is good for community participation. Having a solid minority of fans constantly asserting that the band is done and will never be able to reach its creative potential again thanks to "x" factor is good for drumming up discussion, and, in the long term, activity. As far as I know, the foundation of Porcupine Tree's fanbase shows occasional cracks (notably, people not liking the last two albums) but its nowhere near as broken (and thus as interesting to lurk around) as DT's. 

[skydivingninja]

Epic.........epic fail in the results of this particular thread.
A sad sad day for me.

I hope this thread gets locked, burned and never spoken of again.

Are you sad that lots of people like DT more?  Because thats what the majority looks like from here and you don't really seem like a big PT guy...

[YtseBitsySpider]

no...actually...I read the results so fast...Im a fucking tool...and should edit my post..but I think the "tool" admission would sit better with members......


carry on as though a fat braying ass had never wondered into this thread.

[MetalManiac666]

More liek SLIPKNOT LOL1!!!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-11123906

"Jordison is noted for simultaneously playing two bass drums"

...

Yeah, I lol'd hard at that.