Author Topic: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)  (Read 276759 times)

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Offline Zantera

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1470 on: November 10, 2011, 12:22:24 PM »
How do you read that at all? I fail to see why they would stop. It's not "logical" that PT would die, at all.

To begin with, I don't feel like SW is as dependent on PT as DG is on PoS.
Not saying that it's negative, but meanwhile Daniel has mostly focused on PoS and explored what he wants to explore there, SW has explored several different styles in several projects, and I don't think people see SW as "that frontman in PT", seeing how many other things he has done as well. (no diss on Daniel really)

As much as some people on the net can argue that PT is 100% Steven Wilson, he would probably say the opposite himself, and I find it hard to believe that he would replace friends since 20 years (Colin and Richard), maybe if one left, but if both dropped out like the scenario in PoS, then half of the magic in studio would be lost.
There wouldn't be the same people to discuss ideas with, and I don't think SW would be AS into it, because after all, I think it increases the joy if you play and perform with people you really like, and have known for a while.

We also have the perspective that SW would probably do very well without PT as well. He has established himself very well as a musician, apart from the music he has made, the "collaborations"/mixing and producing, the latter part alone probably gives him some solid income.
I don't think DG has the same situation, obviously a lot of doors would open since he's an amazing musician and all of that, but he has his family at home, I don't think he does quite as well as SW financially (I'm basing this on what I've seen in documentaries and interviews and such, might have changed), add to the fact that PoS has been his money-source for the last 14-15 years, and other small factors.


Offline faemir

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1471 on: November 10, 2011, 03:08:40 PM »
I think Steve relies on the income and popularity of Porcupine Tree a lot, something he would not want to throw away lightly. It's also his must succesful and longest-running project, as well as his "main" one. Losing members who whilst great friends, are not part of (most) of the writing I do not think would make him stop  PT, especially since as it's the continued success of PT that allows him to do things like solo albums that have far lower returns.

Offline NecessaryPain

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1472 on: November 10, 2011, 04:58:33 PM »
Going to the Opeth show in Manchester tomorrow, but I'm much, MUCH more excited to see PoS than Opeth  :lol These guys have been switching places as my favourite band (with PT) for the last few years, and I just can't wait. I actually have a friend who's a friend of the band (he's staying in the tourbus with them at the moment), and he informs me that The Perfect Element has been planned for a few of the Opeth dates, so fingers crossed it gets dropped tomorrow!

I fucking hope so! TPE is probably my number one favourite PoS song. Although that number rotates quite a lot given their stunning discography.

I will also be in the minority supporting PoS more than Opeth, even though I love both the bands almost equally.

The fact that i've seen Opeth live before, and with their new lack of heaviness/growls, it hasn't done too much in terms of anticipation. Should be a great gig either way.
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Offline ariich

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1473 on: November 10, 2011, 05:08:14 PM »
I think Steve relies on the income and popularity of Porcupine Tree a lot, something he would not want to throw away lightly. It's also his must succesful and longest-running project, as well as his "main" one. Losing members who whilst great friends, are not part of (most) of the writing I do not think would make him stop  PT, especially since as it's the continued success of PT that allows him to do things like solo albums that have far lower returns.
Pretty much this.

Offline Zantera

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1474 on: November 11, 2011, 01:45:40 AM »
Not to be picky, but No-Man was actually before PT, not by very long, but still.  :biggrin:

Honestly though, if one member left, I think that PT could very well get through it, but if both Richard and Colin left, that would be the end of PT.
Even if they continued, it would just be PT 2.0, because I think that both Colin and Richard are bigger parts of PT's sound then people give them credit for, it wasn't like when Maitland left and they managed to replace him without too much problems.

Oh well, sorta feels like we're loosing the topic, but yeah.. seeing PoS in December (together with Opeth), and I'm really looking forward to it.
Seeing a few setlists from the last shows, and while I don't like those in particularly (I think it's a bit too much Scarsick and Road Salt-songs), I feel like it was sorta expected, but I will probably enjoy it never the less.
Hopefully they change things up a bit before the show as well. :)

Offline petrucci07

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1475 on: November 11, 2011, 06:29:50 PM »
OMGOMGOMGOMG

just got back from the PoS/Opeth show, it was fucking awesome. Enjoyed PoS SO MUCH MORE than Opeth, but that might have been because during Opeth, a 6'6", 20 stone Mexican guy stood infront of me, filmed and took pictures, and flicked his hair in my face. But that's a different (and boring) story.

After seeing the setlist that PoS had been playing for the last few night in the UK
(http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/pain-of-salvation/2011/academy-newcastle-upon-tyne-england-63d18ea7.html), I didn't have amazing expectations, but then this happened:

http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/pain-of-salvation/2011/manchester-academy-manchester-england-5bd18780.html

I nearly cried.
Kidding.

Not really.

Got a copy of the setlist after the show too  :metal

http://imgur.com/Ji5Xt

Also, for you UK guys, apparently they're coming back in February (maybe then, not sure) for a full headline tour!
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 06:38:14 PM by petrucci07 »
Plus, called me Joe, I friggin' hate my username. 

Offline faemir

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1476 on: November 11, 2011, 06:32:11 PM »
Wow, that's awesome!

Offline NecessaryPain

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1477 on: November 11, 2011, 06:37:51 PM »
Yeah PoS were far better than Opeth, that's for sure.

I love Opeth but Mikael needed to play some fucking metal. The fans were dying for it.

I won't be seeing them again until they do. I'd have rather listened to PoS for 2 hours instead.

Good gig though.
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Offline Zantera

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1478 on: November 12, 2011, 02:20:21 AM »
>Opeth "needs" to play metal
>Pain of Salvation didn't

 :biggrin:

Offline ariich

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1479 on: November 12, 2011, 03:25:48 AM »
>Opeth "needs" to play metal
>Pain of Salvation didn't

 :biggrin:
Yeah exactly. :lol

Offline NecessaryPain

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1480 on: November 12, 2011, 06:19:08 AM »
>Opeth "needs" to play metal
>Pain of Salvation didn't

 :biggrin:

I don't really know what you're getting at with this.

Half, if not more of Opeth's entire discography is heavy/progressive metal. PoS's isn't. They're not a metal band. Not really.

Many fans last night felt a bit disappointed, myself included. I enjoyed the gig don't get me wrong, Opeth always put on a good show, but the whole venue was ready to hear some loud, bone-crushing metal. Growls or no, the song selection they chose was quite boring. They played some acoustic stuff in the middle and that was boring as well. As for Axe's drum solo, that too was pretty generic and pointless.

Mike spent too much time talking about KISS as well, which I didn't find funny. And lots of fans were going outside or heading to the bar during their songs. I can't say i've seen that too often.

The 2nd half of the gig was better, but still, the fans were expecting more. Me and my friend both left the venue feeling cheated, in a way. Simply put, Opeth were capable of so much more last night, and they only partly delivered, IMO.

PoS gave their all, at least. I was happy to hear TPE. 
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Offline Zantera

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1481 on: November 12, 2011, 07:00:05 AM »
I didn't mean anything negative, as The Outlaw Xanadu (?) said in the Opeth-thread, I think that a lot of people focus too much on what we aren't getting from Opeth this tour, then to focus on what we actually are getting.
I look at it like this, Opeth has been a band for about 20 years now, this is the first time they do something completely mellow (even at the Damnation-tour they played heavy stuff), so I think people should appreciate the uniqueness of it.
It's not just "another" Opeth-tour, it's something special, and something I don't think they will do again anytime soon. :P

Offline ariich

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1482 on: November 12, 2011, 07:20:24 AM »
>Opeth "needs" to play metal
>Pain of Salvation didn't

 :biggrin:

I don't really know what you're getting at with this.

Half, if not more of Opeth's entire discography is heavy/progressive metal. PoS's isn't. They're not a metal band. Not really.

Many fans last night felt a bit disappointed, myself included. I enjoyed the gig don't get me wrong, Opeth always put on a good show, but the whole venue was ready to hear some loud, bone-crushing metal. Growls or no, the song selection they chose was quite boring. They played some acoustic stuff in the middle and that was boring as well. As for Axe's drum solo, that too was pretty generic and pointless.

Mike spent too much time talking about KISS as well, which I didn't find funny. And lots of fans were going outside or heading to the bar during their songs. I can't say i've seen that too often.

The 2nd half of the gig was better, but still, the fans were expecting more. Me and my friend both left the venue feeling cheated, in a way. Simply put, Opeth were capable of so much more last night, and they only partly delivered, IMO.

PoS gave their all, at least. I was happy to hear TPE. 
Opeth have been doing the same thing for years, I personally am very excited that they are doing something different this time around, and I know there are lots of others who feel the same way.

Offline NecessaryPain

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1483 on: November 12, 2011, 07:56:00 AM »
I didn't mean anything negative, as The Outlaw Xanadu (?) said in the Opeth-thread, I think that a lot of people focus too much on what we aren't getting from Opeth this tour, then to focus on what we actually are getting.
I look at it like this, Opeth has been a band for about 20 years now, this is the first time they do something completely mellow (even at the Damnation-tour they played heavy stuff), so I think people should appreciate the uniqueness of it.
It's not just "another" Opeth-tour, it's something special, and something I don't think they will do again anytime soon. :P

I get where you're coming from, but the general consensus last night was that the gig would have been even more 'special' with a song like Blackwater Park, as to Folklore.

Heritage is a good album but to see most of it as live isn't what i'd consider Opeth to be about. It's not all about growls either, their song selection was very limited, IMO.

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Offline Zantera

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1484 on: November 12, 2011, 08:53:35 AM »
I don't know, as I've said earlier in the Opeth-thread, the Heritage-tour means that it's logical with mostly Heritage songs, I can't complain about the rest, because they are all songs I love, and want to see live.

As for the way they've chosen to "present" this tour (no growl-songs), I still think people should see the good things in it, and not the bad.
A good example could be the 12:5 album by PoS, instead of criticizing it for being acoustic, not metal (or anything like that), it should be viewed on as being one of the more unique albums in their discography, and the fact that it has some magic that people will probably never see or hear again. :)

Offline NecessaryPain

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1485 on: November 12, 2011, 03:42:30 PM »
I don't know, as I've said earlier in the Opeth-thread, the Heritage-tour means that it's logical with mostly Heritage songs, I can't complain about the rest, because they are all songs I love, and want to see live.

As for the way they've chosen to "present" this tour (no growl-songs), I still think people should see the good things in it, and not the bad.
A good example could be the 12:5 album by PoS, instead of criticizing it for being acoustic, not metal (or anything like that), it should be viewed on as being one of the more unique albums in their discography, and the fact that it has some magic that people will probably never see or hear again. :)

You're right but PoS don't do growls. Opeth do, and in a large portion of their work.

Opeth are heavy. Just not all the time. I would rather they don't limit what they do. As long as it's just for this tour then that's okay.
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Offline Jirpo

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1486 on: November 12, 2011, 06:28:00 PM »
I agree with both of you, but like Zantera I'm happy that they are doing this kind of "unique" tour. It will be special to see. I just hope they go back to playing their old stuff on later tours.

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1487 on: November 12, 2011, 07:33:52 PM »
Guys, I don't think Opeth's new style is a one-off thing.

Offline Jirpo

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1488 on: November 12, 2011, 07:44:35 PM »
I'm not talking about their new "style", I just mean when they are touring. I'm not talking about their next albums at all here :)

Offline faemir

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1489 on: November 12, 2011, 07:48:31 PM »
Guys, I don't think Opeth's new style is a one-off thing.

Why is that?

Offline Zantera

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1490 on: November 13, 2011, 03:09:21 AM »
Guys, I don't think Opeth's new style is a one-off thing.

Why is that?

I wonder the same, especially when Mikael himself said that they will be going back to the older mode for future tours.
As for how their next couple of albums will sound, it's hard to say, but I find it hard to believe that they will never use growls on their albums again, especially if they are going to keep some growl-songs in the set.
But it will be interesting to see.

Offline Jirpo

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1491 on: November 13, 2011, 03:26:40 AM »
Lets take this discussion to the Opeth thread guys :).

Offline faemir

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1492 on: November 13, 2011, 10:47:12 AM »
Am I bad person for listening to Scarsick more than Remedy Lane?

Offline petrucci07

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1493 on: November 13, 2011, 11:31:02 AM »
Am I bad person for listening to Scarsick more than Remedy Lane?

Nope. I actually think Scarsick is more consistent than RL, and I actually understand the concept, which is something I DEFINITELY can't say for RL. I mean, all I know about that album is that there is some sex. Quite a bit, actually.

I think RL starts to drag around Rope Ends. I don't really like that run of tracks from Rope Ends to Second Love, although Waking Every God is great.

..in conclusion, NO
Plus, called me Joe, I friggin' hate my username. 

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1494 on: November 13, 2011, 05:34:37 PM »
I mean, all I know about that album is that there is some sex. Quite a bit, actually.

Um... isn't that every PoS album?  :P

Offline petrucci07

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1495 on: November 14, 2011, 12:45:49 AM »
I mean, all I know about that album is that there is some sex. Quite a bit, actually.

Um... isn't that every PoS album?  :P

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Offline Zantera

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1496 on: November 14, 2011, 02:14:58 AM »
Scarsick still really hasn't clicked for me, so I probably rank it the lowest out of the PoS albums.
I do love some of the songs (Flame to the Moth, title-track and America), but the other songs range from decent to okay, one of my 'bigger' problems would be the lyrics, where I feel like some songs like Kingdom of Loss and Cribcaged have some good music going on, but is being let down by what I think are 'bad' lyrics. :/

Offline shadowfex

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1497 on: November 14, 2011, 02:22:53 AM »
I have been listening to road salt 2 for the last week and wanted to contribute the following:

- Very decent effort overall, probably better than road salt 1 but no individual track is nearly as good as sisters.
- The physics of gridlock is great until the french part at the end. One of the biggest WTF moments in their career.
- The deepest cut and to the shoreline are the best tracks though healing now is also excellent

Overall 3.5/5.

I like the album quite a bit but the jaw droppingly amazing moments aren't there and have been scarce since scarsick.

@Pettruci07 - Remedy lane is a stunning album. There are so many more layers to it than scarsick. It is worth reading up on the concept as well, I believe Daniel draws on a lot of personal experiences e.g. A trace of blood is about his wife miscarrying and rope ends is about a friend trying to hang themselves.

From what I understand the concept is about a couple who got together young and grew apart after a harrowing ordeal (the miscarriage) and when the woman tries to hang herself he saves her but realises they need to be apart.

He leaves for Budapest and attempts to fulfill himself with sex but realises this isn't what he wants.

I would have to revisit the lyrics to provide a better explanation of the concept but i remember the thrust of it I think  :lol

The songs are also out of chronological order which makes it more fun to piece together.
"Once he had forests and mountains that were only his - listening to him. Once he would run through the summer days catching memories for ages to come. Now he is dressing this naked floor with his flesh and blood, and time passes by. His trade of pain might just have lead him to deal with consequence for some change as time passes by"

Offline wolfking

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1498 on: November 14, 2011, 02:24:05 AM »
Am I bad person for listening to Scarsick more than Remedy Lane?

Absolutely not.

Offline petrucci07

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1499 on: November 14, 2011, 05:19:56 AM »
@Petrucci07 - Remedy lane is a stunning album. There are so many more layers to it than scarsick. It is worth reading up on the concept as well, I believe Daniel draws on a lot of personal experiences e.g. A trace of blood is about his wife miscarrying and rope ends is about a friend trying to hang themselves.

From what I understand the concept is about a couple who got together young and grew apart after a harrowing ordeal (the miscarriage) and when the woman tries to hang herself he saves her but realises they need to be apart.

He leaves for Budapest and attempts to fulfill himself with sex but realises this isn't what he wants.

I would have to revisit the lyrics to provide a better explanation of the concept but i remember the thrust of it I think  :lol

The songs are also out of chronological order which makes it more fun to piece together.

Thanks for info on the concept, that clears some stuff up! You're probably right about the 'layers' thing, but I just think Scarsick is more consistent, because I simply don't like the music from Rope Ends to Second Love nearly as much as the other tracks.
Plus, called me Joe, I friggin' hate my username. 

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1500 on: November 14, 2011, 11:10:57 AM »
I never considered Remedy Lane much of a concept album. Yeah, the songs can be bound together by the idea that they're all about relationships in some way, but I feel like half of it has to do with teen love, and the other half just whatever was on Daniel's mind at the time.

It's pretty dramatically convenient that the album is technically a bunch of "flashbacks". I don't see how something like A Trace of Blood relates to something like Rope Ends though. It's a bit too disjointed for me to consider it as a conceptual piece.
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Offline contest_sanity

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1501 on: November 14, 2011, 12:12:50 PM »
I never considered Remedy Lane much of a concept album. Yeah, the songs can be bound together by the idea that they're all about relationships in some way, but I feel like half of it has to do with teen love, and the other half just whatever was on Daniel's mind at the time.

It's pretty dramatically convenient that the album is technically a bunch of "flashbacks". I don't see how something like A Trace of Blood relates to something like Rope Ends though. It's a bit too disjointed for me to consider it as a conceptual piece.

I somewhat agree with this.  I tried to say it once before here, though, and everyone was all "boo, hiss, lol."  I do think it's pressing a bit too far to argue, for instance, that the girl who commits suicide in "Rope Ends" is the same girl from Budapest or however you wanna spin it.  I mean, maybe that is what Daniel intended, but in the explanation here (http://painofsslvation.com/lyrics/RemedyLane-Analysis.rhtml) it seems like tracks such as "Rope Ends" and "A Trace Of Blood" are really just autobiographical, without literally fitting into the story, except for at the possible level of shared themes.  Not saying that there is no story because obviously there is a narrative present; it's just that every track is not actually part of the narrative.  A bit unusual for a so-called "concept" album, but also in a way very unique.  Either way, it's still my favorite PoS record.

Offline pain of occupation

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1502 on: November 14, 2011, 01:20:11 PM »
i always thought the Rememdy Lane concept was one of the easier stories to follow outta his discography. Beseems a little more along the lines of: "the songs can be bound together by the idea that they're all about God in some way"

Offline ClairvoyantCat

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1503 on: November 14, 2011, 02:10:30 PM »
i always thought the Rememdy Lane concept was one of the easier stories to follow outta his discography. Beseems a little more along the lines of: "the songs can be bound together by the idea that they're all about God in some way"

I think the opposite.  Remedy Lane's songs all tie into sex and addictions and pain and other related things, but it doesn't seem to follow a specific story.  (You have relationship songs and suicide songs and songs about miscarriages)  BE, however, definitely follows a specific narrative.  Not the easiest to comprehend on your first time through, but it's the only album of theirs that really seems to outline a full story. 

Offline ariich

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Re: Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)
« Reply #1504 on: November 14, 2011, 04:28:01 PM »
I concur with Seth.