Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)

[Evermind]

Dammit.

I'm not looking to blame or be mad at anyone over this, I'm just disappointed in this happening.

This.

That was just frustrating to read. They've made such a good album, I hoped that things would look better for them from now on, and now we get this. Oh well.

[Lynxo]

Johan Hallgren is coming back! From Daniel's Facebook:

After a few years of working together with Ragnar, I feel that we have come to a point where it is necessary to part ways. It feels very sad, because we are losing a great vocalist and stage personality in Ragnar. It felt great writing the new album together with him, and I am very thankful for that time. We all are. But with time it has become clear that his true place is not in this band. Musically, it has worked very well, but there are so many other variables that need to click in order to make a band strong and stable.
We are not going into a period of uncertainty, but one of deliberate change and strength. We have a great record label and a great management/booking company that have both told us that they understand our decision, and that they back us up and support us fully through this. All scheduled shows will happen as planned. How? Well, we are happy to announce that, starting today, Johan Hallgren will be returning to the band as a full member again, and we will go full throttle ahead through this. We are very happy about seeing him back onboard, and we are sure you will accept him back with open arms, as will we.
One thing that we are looking forward to a lot is the regained possibility to meet up and rehearse more often, which is one of the main reasons why I started playing music in the first place: to have that small and devoted tribe, standing in a sweaty rehearing room, sharing a stupid dream. And then making it come true.
So, a new chapter in the life of Pain of Salvation, and yet not. We hurt, we heal, we rise. And we keep delivering, that is a promise. We hope for your love and support through this. We want to thank Ragnar for the good years together with us, and wish him all the luck with his future endeavours. And again, we warmly welcome Johan Hallgren back to our family!
Peace,
Daniel & Pain of Salvation
What the band members and Johan himself has to say about his return to the band:
Johan Hallgren:
“Already when I quit the band, I felt that I really wanted to come back. This feels fun as hell, and I will go into this with full force – hook, line and sinker. I have promised myself to supersede everyone’s expectations of my return. This is something I know well, and I am damn good at it. And more than that, I have really missed them all – it’s a wonderful gang!”
Daniel D2 Karlsson:
“I am very happy to see Johan back – I actually feel quite exalted. Johan is a wonderful human being with a warm heart, and he’s got a fantastic charisma as a musician. I am convinced our fans will welcome him with a warm embrace.”
Léo Margarit:
“It’s great that Johan is back – a good friend. I am certain the fans will be very happy, he was a beloved band member, and many were sad to see him go. It will be very fun to play with him again!”

He also wrote this in one of the comments:

I want to thank all of you who were closely involved in the last two tours and have sent me your support and understanding regarding this sad decision. I will not participate in any of Ragnar's flamings or lash-outs. I just find the whole situation very sad.

Source: https://www.facebook.com/danielgildenlow/posts/10212537958114669?pnref=story.unseen-section

[Zydar]

My God, what a circus.

[Lynxo]

Is Ragnar the new Mike Portnoy now? xD

[Phoenix87x]

Is Ragnar the new Mike Portnoy now? xD

Damian wilson, Ragnar and MP need to form a band pronto. Spin some art from this adversity

[axeman90210]

Yeah, definitely bummed to see that announcement last night, as I *really* liked both the latest album and the sets I saw them perform on CttE and in NYC in support of it.

[LPMX]

"I guess I'm simply sorry for being me just so awful to the people..." -Daniel Gildenlow in Repentance (2007)

[Adami]

Well.....that's different.


It'll be very interesting to hear Johann sing the Ragnar parts from the new album since he has a very different voice.

[ChuckSteak]

Good news. I really like Johan. Daniel didn't say a word about the accusations..

[Adami]

Good news. I really like Johan. Daniel didn't say a word about the accusations..

He said he wouldn't get into Ragnar's accusations. Smart move.

[Kwyjibo]

Johan's back that's good.

Not sure what to make of Ragnar's statements but I think it's clash of egos involved. It's been pretty clear that PoS is the Daniel Gildenlöw show for quite some time, maybe even from the beginning. No matter what other musicians are involved. Just like Porcupine Tree and Steven Wilson or Opeth and Mikael Akerfeldt. Maybe Ragnar thought he could change that? But it doesn't work that way.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

PoS lost more than they got with this move. Ragnar is incredible.

[Adami]

PoS lost more than they got with this move. Ragnar is incredible.

He was really good, but I always preferred Johan.

[ClairvoyantCat]

Ragnar is more talented but Johan is a way better fit for the band personality wise. 

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Well of course. He's willing to hang back and let Danny be daddy.

[pogoowner]

I love Johan, but the fact that their best studio recording in 15 years is immediately followed by another lineup change is discouraging to me.

[Adami]

I love Johan, but the fact that their best studio recording in 15 years is immediately followed by another lineup change is discouraging to me.

This is a good point.


Maybe if he got the old guys back together and decided to treat them all like human beings.

[Mebert78]

Just noticed that Ragnar posted a video last week of one of his demo songs from 2003 that contains part of "On a Tuesday." Link: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K_ZAoqAW8v8

[home]

That was posted here a few days ago already

[Kwyjibo]

Maybe if he got the old guys back together and decided to treat them all like human beings.

Do we know that they left because they couldn't get along with Daniel? And if it is so hard to work with him, why is Johan coming back?

[abydos]

Has Johan done anything since? I haven't even bothered to look him up once, kind of hard to get a new gig up as big as this if barely anyone knows your name. One of the problems when bands are a one-man show and when it is marketed as "Daniel and Pain of Salvation".

[Zantera]

Has Johan done anything since? I haven't even bothered to look him up once, kind of hard to get a new gig up as big as this if barely anyone knows your name. One of the problems when bands are a one-man show and when it is marketed as "Daniel and Pain of Salvation".

I want to say I have a vague memory of him appearing on an album or song by Kristoffer Gildenlöw but I might be wrong. But he left PoS to spend time with his family so it would make sense if he hasn't done much musically since then.

[Lynxo]

Some posts by Johan Hallgren after the announcement:

I saw Ragnar perform with the guys a while ago! I was totally blown away by his performance! A breakup is never easy and I think we all know that! I wish him the best future possible as I do for everyone! My social media is flooded right know so I want to thank you for the warm welcome back to the family of POS! I'll dedicate myself to the ones who makes all of this possible! YOU.....
See you on the road and again thank you Ragnar for the years supporting our big family! Johan Hallgren

The guys in the band said some really kind things about me so I thought I would return the favor!
D2! First time I met him he was just a little kid about 11 years old and look at him now! He is handsome and a humble super musician who can switch between bass and keys in an instant! He is also a midi-wizard, sound engineer, light tech and so much more! Love to spend some time with him!
Leo! What can I say! Love the guy and everything about him! I don't think I need to mention his musical qualities! Seems like he was born through a drumroll singing!
Gustaf! Have had some sporadic contact with him over the last 25 years! Humorous guy and a killer musician! He is also a beast on bass but you already knew that!
Daniel! Sometimes he is a mystery to me! How can such an intellectual person go through hell sometimes squeezing out the last drop of blood in every musical and artistic insight! If he would be into economics he probably be a billionaire! Instead he beats himself almost to death to bring Pos forward giving everything he's got! But mostly he is just that loving, funny, person who is a close friend that always inspires me to be better on and off stage!
I've seen some pretty harsh posts out there about him during this member transition! Cut him some slack he is a human being! If the intentions was to hurt him, you did! Now we have two persons hurt! Let them heal and have two awesome bands out there! Johan

Seems to me like everyone but Ragnar behaves proffesionally. 

[Sebastian]

Has Johan done anything since? I haven't even bothered to look him up once, kind of hard to get a new gig up as big as this if barely anyone knows your name. One of the problems when bands are a one-man show and when it is marketed as "Daniel and Pain of Salvation".

I want to say I have a vague memory of him appearing on an album or song by Kristoffer Gildenlöw but I might be wrong. But he left PoS to spend time with his family so it would make sense if he hasn't done much musically since then.

They played some of Kristoffer Gildenlöw's solo work live together, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBCkG0ETvyc. But I think only Fredrik Hermansson actually appeared on one of the albums. (They're pretty good by the way. )

[wolfking]

This is great news, I always preferred Johan!

[ClairvoyantCat]

Ragnar's wife joined the fray (on FB) and apparently the issue regarding credit is that the original pressing says "lyrics and concept by Daniel Gildenlow" while later copies acknowledge Meaningless and that one part of On a Tuesday as Ragnar's.



Daniel's response:  "Please be gentle and respectful, if not to us then at least towards each other. Ragnar received my deep apologies for this unfortunate mistake half a year ago, and all labels were clearly instructed to have this changed for future reprints despite the extra cost for us for making new originals. This is a sad situation and I don't think either me or Ragnar or the band benefits from these heated speculations."

Seems like a mountain out of a molehill, but I kinda feel like this was just a small part of two very headstrong people clashing in a band.  All we have are biased pieces of the story anyway.  I am bummed, though, Ragnar wasn't irreplaceable but seeing it go down in such a nasty way is sad. 

[Nick]

So with Johan joining back in this split is softened, but still not ideal. I think if it could have worked that a partnership between Daniel and Ragnar would have had the best payouts in the future. That said, if the split has to happen there is no better outcome than having Johan back in the band.

[Elite]

Oh wow, I'm only just seeing this.. What the heck man, I don't really know what to think of this. To me, Danial Gildenlöw the performer has always seemed an arrogant prick, but I kind of assumed that he would be different off-stage. Then the second death of Pain of Salvation happened and I didn't know what to think. Pain of Salvation became the Daniel Gildenlöw band and the arrogance on stage became worse. Maybe Ragnar even amplified that.

I don't really know what to think. Ragnar must be pissed indeed, but part of his claim that he received little payment must surely be his own 'fault', so to speak - read and sign the contract before you lend your services. Him lending his own material for Pain of Salvation material is also his own choice I guess. Well, it was 'fun' while it lasted with Ragnar, even though I didn't think he really fit in the band with his hair metal stage antics.

Welcome back, Johan. That'll be fun as well.

[ClairvoyantCat]

Yea, either Ragnar signed a shitty contract or he's been screwed out of what's owed and should be in court and not on social media.  Kinda seems like he just wanted to hurt Daniel and drag his image through the mud.

I don't think there's that much money in PoS though so minimum wage while on tour isn't super surprising?  Sure they played sold out shows... to crowds of a couple hundred (at least in the US)

[Kwyjibo]

Not sure I understand this, all music except Silent Gold is credited to Gildenlöw & Zolberg. Is that wrong? And it's more co-writing credits than on any other PoS record.

I know that Meaningless is a Ragnar tune, but are the lyrics also Ragnars? And is there really nothing added by Daniel? And as I understand only parts of On A Tuesday are from an old Ragnar tune, so what's wrong here citing Daniel as co-author?

And the concept is surely Daniel's, he was the one in the hospital.

[Adami]

Not sure I understand this, all music except Silent Gold is credited to Gildenlöw & Zolberg. Is that wrong? And it's more co-writing credits than on any other PoS record.

I know that Meaningless is a Ragnar tune, but are the lyrics also Ragnars? And is there really nothing added by Daniel? And as I understand only parts of On A Tuesday are from an old Ragnar tune, so what's wrong here citing Daniel as co-author?

And the concept is surely Daniel's, he was the one in the hospital.

Daniel kept some of the lyrics to the original version of Meaningless, but changed most of them.

[ClairvoyantCat]

No the issue is "all lyrics by Daniel"on the original press.  Some of the lines from Meaningless remained from Rockers Don't Bathe and the piano part of On a Tuesday is by Ragnar.  The repress says "all lyrics by Daniel except Meaningless and On a Tuesday by Daniel and Ragnar"

[Kwyjibo]

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. Not a good thing but imo not something to start a fight about, if it wasn't done out of spite, which I doubt. Ragnar is credited as co-author regardless so he gets royalties (if there are any) nonetheless.

[Nel]

I only just noticed the message written around the edge of the main and bonus cds for ItPLoD. Pretty amusing.

[Adami]

I only just noticed the message written around the edge of the main and bonus cds for ItPLoD. Pretty amusing.

What is it?