Would you consider Tool "Progressive"?

[Norwood]

Removing the opinion of whether or not you like them, would you say that their music falls into the "Progressive" genre?  They're widely considered "Alternative Metal"...however they came up in Winamp as my "group of the day"...the group I listen to mostly throughout the workday.

I've never been a fan-fan, but have always paid attention to what they put out and listened to it and some of the stuff from the 'Undertow' album seems to have some elements of Progressive.

Granted, I don't think they're as talented as most Progressive bands tend to be, but there are very a number of somewhat interesting arrangements and sections of songs that would make me think they were.

I'm gonna give them a good listen today, I can't quite put my finger on it.

[orcus116]

Not really. I'd consider them alternative metal if I absolutely had to label them but defy genre in some ways.

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

Definitely. Mixture of prog and alt metal.

[zxlkho]

Definitely. Mixture of prog and alt metal.

Exactly this.

Granted, I don't think they're as talented as most Progressive bands tend to be

WTF are you serious?

[Arcaeus]

They have some progressive elements, but I'd call them mostly art/alternative metal. Regardless, they're better than most progressive metal bands, so whatever.

[Jakartabassplayer]

Definitely. Mixture of prog and alt metal.

this

[flawlesslife]

I think he is joking.

[cthrubuoy]

Definitely. Mixture of prog and alt metal.

this

[hefdaddy42]

I just call them Tool.

They have metal elements, and prog elements, so calling them prog metal wouldn't be altogether inappropriate.

[The Letter M]

I just call them Tool.

They have metal elements, and prog elements, so calling them prog metal wouldn't be altogether inappropriate.

This in a nutshell.

-Marc.

[Norwood]

I'm not joking.

Saying they aren't as talented as another band doesn't mean that I'm saying they are talentless.

I would confidently say that bands such as Genesis, Yes, Dream Theater, Rush and other bands I consider to be "Progressive" are more talented.

Now, does Tool have more talent in their toe-nail clippings than I do?  1,000,000% yes.  Do they have more talent than 99% of the other bands that are on the radio airwaves with them? 1,000,000% yes.

I don't think they're as talented as the bands I mentioned above, though.

[cthrubuoy]

How are you measuring talent?

[zxlkho]

I disagree with you completely. I think Tool are one of the most talented bands ever.

[Marvellous G]

I got the impression he meant just pure technical skill, in which case Danny Carey pwns all but admittedly Jones and Chancellor aren't gonna beat Petrucci and Myung in an instrument-fight. ( )

But compositionally at least, I think they are more talented, but then they're my favourite band so I'm biased.

Anyway, to answer your question, I think they have quite a few songs that are very progressive in nature, basically all of Lateralus in fact, so I'd say yes, again, alt-metal mixed with prog.

[Seventh Son]

Alternative Metal isn't a genre.

[LTE]

Progressive as in the sense of "Progressive", not "Prog"

[ThroughHerEyesDude6]

I just call them Tool.

They have metal elements, and prog elements, so calling them prog metal wouldn't be altogether inappropriate.

This in a nutshell.

-Marc.

I concur

[zxlkho]

Progressive as in the sense of "Progressive", not "Prog"

I've had this argument with people before. There is no difference between these two terms. One is just the abbreviation of the other.

[glaurung]

Progressive as in the sense of "Progressive", not "Prog"

I've had this argument with people before. There is no difference between these two terms. One is just the abbreviation of the other.

I definitely understand what people mean when they say that but I would have to agree. They mean the same thing to me.

[ThroughHerEyesDude6]

Progressive as in the sense of "Progressive", not "Prog"

I've had this argument with people before. There is no difference between these two terms. One is just the abbreviation of the other.

I definitely understand what people mean when they say that but I would have to agree. They mean the same thing to me.

I concur.

[Birch Boy]

Progressive as in the sense of "Progressive", not "Prog"

I've had this argument with people before. There is no difference between these two terms. One is just the abbreviation of the other.

I definitely understand what people mean when they say that but I would have to agree. They mean the same thing to me.

I concur.

As do I.

Granted, I don't think they're as talented as most Progressive bands tend to be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fS7v9rtm3Y

[lonestar]

Just gotta say, I always love these terminology disagreements on DTF.  My boss laughed his ass off when I told him we had a discaimer in our rules section on what constitues a "concept album", then called us a bunch of fucking dorks(which is pretty much the truth).


Carry On.

[Sigz]

Progressive as in the sense of "Progressive", not "Prog"

I've had this argument with people before. There is no difference between these two terms. One is just the abbreviation of the other.

30 years ago they were one and the same, but there's definitely a distinction to be made now.

[Jamariquay]

Tool are a hard rock band.

[Birch Boy]

They sure make me rock hard... if ya know what I mean

[Marvellous G]

Progressive as in the sense of "Progressive", not "Prog"

I've had this argument with people before. There is no difference between these two terms. One is just the abbreviation of the other.

30 years ago they were one and the same, but there's definitely a distinction to be made now.

I agree. If anything, prog now means what progressive did 30 years ago.

[The Letter M]

I'm not joking.

Saying they aren't as talented as another band doesn't mean that I'm saying they are talentless.

I would confidently say that bands such as Genesis, Yes, Dream Theater, Rush and other bands I consider to be "Progressive" are more talented.

Now, does Tool have more talent in their toe-nail clippings than I do?  1,000,000% yes.  Do they have more talent than 99% of the other bands that are on the radio airwaves with them? 1,000,000% yes.

I don't think they're as talented as the bands I mentioned above, though.

Talent isn't all you need to be progressive. If that were the case, then a lot of Jazz bands would be considered progressive because those musicians tend to be insanely talented at their instruments.

Musically speaking, progressive music tends to be about composition, in addition to talent, and I think Tool are very good in the composition department. Their writing abilities can outshine a lot of bands, and their layers of sounds and uses of instrumental tones, along with tonal and metric changes are pretty well executed.

-Marc.

[MetalManiac666]

Progressive as in the sense of "Progressive", not "Prog"

I've had this argument with people before. There is no difference between these two terms. One is just the abbreviation of the other.

30 years ago they were one and the same, but there's definitely a distinction to be made now.

[The Letter M]

Progressive as in the sense of "Progressive", not "Prog"

I've had this argument with people before. There is no difference between these two terms. One is just the abbreviation of the other.

30 years ago they were one and the same, but there's definitely a distinction to be made now.

Then you have the people who make a distinction between "Prog" and "prog" and "Progressive"... really, a damn capital letter makes a difference?

People think if something is "Prog" that it derives from the classic 70's style of progressive music - the Yes, Genesis, etc. camp of prog rock - but it's it's rock music that's still progressing beyond any music that is being made today, then it's progressive and not "Prog". That's like saying if someone made a disco hit today, that it it's "Disco" with a capital D, and not "disco" as in the style or genre. Really?! It's all the same, regardless of how derivative it is from that style's/genre's origins.

Given some people's ideas of what is and isn't progressive, I'd say Tool are definitely progressive. They've made a kind of alternative metal and rock that is quite different from others and have set themselves apart to a point of being so recognizable, in the same way progressive acts did back in the 70's. They're doing (or did) something different from the norm, and to me, that's progressing - that's progressive.

-Marc.

[LudwigVan]

Progressive as in the sense of "Progressive", not "Prog"

I've had this argument with people before. There is no difference between these two terms. One is just the abbreviation of the other.

30 years ago they were one and the same, but there's definitely a distinction to be made now.

Yup.  "Prog rock" is really an unfortunate genre title.  Same way that "Modern art" was poorly chosen to describe the works of Van Gogh and Gauguin almost 150 years ago.  Terms like 'progressive' and 'modern' get stuck inside a narrow historical window.  

[Gadough]

....Absolutely, yes. They're not progressive metal, and they're not really progressive rock either...but they're definitely progressive.

[hefdaddy42]

Progressive as in the sense of "Progressive", not "Prog"

I've had this argument with people before. There is no difference between these two terms. One is just the abbreviation of the other.

30 years ago they were one and the same, but there's definitely a distinction to be made now.

This exactly.  Prog and progressive are two distinctly different things.

[j]

No.  They were progressive for awhile, but their latest release didn't do much in the way of "progress".

Note that I am using the actual definition of the word "progressive", and not the inane genre label.

-J

[Birch Boy]

If progressive means "mind-blowingly amazing," then yes, Tool are progressive.

[Arcaeus]

I consider "progressive" music intelligent and experimental but tasteful music that pushes the boundaries of their genre while I consider prog bands that rip of their progressive predecessors, get their lyrics by copy/pasting from a novel/epic poem/movie and write long songs with wanky instrumentation for the sake of it.

Not trying to start shit with that, but by my definition, I would certainly call Tool a progressive form of alternative metal.