some people who like Porcupine Tree, Anathema, Opeth, Katatonia may hate DT

[Neada]

I notice this tendency among the fans.
Did you?
Why this position may exist, how do you think?)

With Respect to everyone.

[Sigz]

Because DT is really nothing like those other bands, though they share a good portion of their fanbase.

[MetalManiac666]

I wouldn't really say nothing like those bands, but yeah, DT does have a different sound.

[Neada]

It's a really enigma, for example, some might say - i like Korn and Mogwai (almost impossible)))) and hate DT,
but these bands I think don't have in their message something opposite DT, I think they even have much in common...

[KevShmev]

Some simply view DT's music as too busy.  Fair or not, that is what a lot of critics of the band say....that they focus too much on chops and technical skill.  That never gets said about those other bands.

[Neada]

they focus too much on chops and technical skill.  That never gets said about those other bands.

Yes, it exists.

[LudwigVan]

Huh? I don't notice that. There actually seems to be a connective commonmality between DT and these bands, considering how so many on DTF love to  talk about them.

[Arcaeus]

They just find them tasteless, immature (not in the sense most people see it, of course), etc.; and the sounds are different.

[Perpetual Change]

Likewise, some DT fans hate these bands.

they focus too much on chops and technical skill.  That never gets said about those other bands.

Yes, it exists.

Yeah, I've heard that said about those bands. Not by DT fans, but from people who tend to like music that's closer to their derivative genres.

[TheVoxyn]

I love PT and Anathema and would probably put them higher than DT. I still like DT though.

[Darkes7]

Since I'm a great fan of two of these (PT and Katatonia) and like the other two (Anathema and Opeth) a lot, I've noticed this as well and have to agree.

These four bands rely a lot on atmosphere, and even though all four have very strong progressive elements (well, PT definitely classifies as progressive rock, Opeth as progressive extreme metal; Anathema and Katatonia are less obvious but still have a lot of this) and also have quite complex songs - it's not on the same level as DT, which works exactly the opposite, as they are based on complexity above all, and atmosphere also matters but it sort of comes second. I guess some people just can't notice it and they see only technical complexity. Probably the most common argument I've ever seen (as long as the person is writing in a civilised way) in this case is "they're excellent musicians but they can't write songs".

I don't know if it comes from laziness, trying to look deep and atmospheric or just not enough attention, but it often seems to be like that. It's kind of weird because as you can see an important part of DT fanbase really likes the above bands (I'd guess around 90% DT fans love PT as well, and around 2/3 love Opeth; Anathema and Katatonia aren't that popular but also have their fans), but it doesn't exactly work the other way around. I don't like it at all, and to be honest I'm tired that whenever I read any board dedicated to a band which is somehow related to DT, I see exactly the same "instrumental wankery blablabla" comments whenever the name of DT appears. I guess all I would need to shut up most of them would be a link to Vacant or Trial of Tears; but it's like a battle against windmills or something, it seems to be rooted somewhere deep and many people just won't look beneath the "technical" shell. Which is sad...

[UnutterableSquid]

Because those bands all have a lot more in common with each other than Dream Theater.

The whole dreary/ambient/heavier sounds which those bands tend to employ aren't found much in Dream Theater's discography.

Dream Theater seems a lot more technical, imo, which is I guess where some of the hate comes from

That said, I like all the aforementioned bands (even with my somewhat limited knowledge of Anathema and Katatonia) and enjoy them because of their musical styles, not because of their differences.

[Perpetual Change]

I'm 100 percent sure that a vast amount-probably even the majority of-  Opeth fans don't like Porcupine Tree. I'd say more Opeth fans I know like DT than PT. I also feel reasonably comfortable asserting that most Porcupine Tree fans don't like Opeth or Dream Theater, and maybe haven't even heard of the other two. Moreover, there's a good chunk of Dream Theater fans who simply don't care about most or all of those other bands listed.

I do think Dream Theater tend to get overrated because they seem to have been the spokespeople of progressive music for so long. That's obviously not as true as it once was, but DT still do seem to be one of those bands progressive music fans like to rally behind.  I also think they're the gateway into prog for a lot of people, whereas I'm not sure people who find out about Porcupine Tree at first are compelled to check out more traditional prog bands. But framing the question in a way that suggests fans of those other bands all like eachother but usually not DT makes little sense to me.  And I don't really think you can gauge what fans like what based on the internet. The fraction of people internet fan communities represent is way to low to be able to judge the topic as a whole.

[Sigz]

The fraction of people internet fan communities represent is way to low to be able to judge the topic as a whole.

Not to mention that a good chunk of the fans on the internet are oftentimes completely different from than the majority of the fanbase and say all kinds of shit that they only sometimes truly believe; i.e. they're loner neckbeards like myself.

[Neada]

I had to hear a lot of times from the people, in a conversation about these bands ( +Tool-APC-Devin of course) - "DT, compare to these genius bands, are just giftless chainsaw-speed-players"
It's really sad...

[faemir]

Well I love them all, guess i'm just awesome

[In The Wake Of Poseidon]

It takes years of research and note taking to understand Dream Theater. Primitive bands like Opeth require much less mental fortitude to understand. Its only natural that some people feel threatened listening to Dream Theater, as it may cause shock at first.

[Arcaeus]

It takes years of research and note taking to understand Dream Theater. Primitive bands like Opeth require much less mental fortitude to understand. Its only natural that some people feel threatened listening to Dream Theater, as it may cause shock at first.

I love when you make posts like this it always takes me a second or two to realize you're trolling again, since there's so many fans that are actually like this

[In The Wake Of Poseidon]

It takes years of research and note taking to understand Dream Theater. Primitive bands like Opeth require much less mental fortitude to understand. Its only natural that some people feel threatened listening to Dream Theater, as it may cause shock at first.

I love when you make posts like this it always takes me a second or two to realize you're trolling again, since there's so many fans that are actually like this

Glad I can still deliver the lulz.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

The single greatest factor separating Dream Theater from the progressive contemporaries they are most compared - Opeth and Porcupine Tree - is individualism.

If Opeth and Porcupine Tree were to create agendas regarding what they want from their music, showcasing any single player's individual skill would not be on them. Both bands feature guitar solos, sure, but always it is only the guitar solo I hear, and not the man playing it. The solo can rarely be divorced from the music.

On the contrary, if Dream Theater was to create an agenda regarding what they want from their music, showcasing any single player's individual skill would most certainly be on it. When the guys in DT solo, there are times they sound as though they are soloing to prove a point. Like when Petrucci was laying down the solo for "A Change of Seasons", David Prater told him he was not playing with feeling, and Petrucci said he was merely trying to keep up with his idols.

Basically, when Opeth and Porcupine Tree solo, my brain stays in the same gear as when they do not solo. When Dream Theater solos, a switch in my brain flips and I think to myself, "Here come Petrucci and Rudess..."

Like JR said on the Budokan documentary:

"People come to see the prog or the metal but they are also coming to see the players"

[SoundscapeMN]

(I'd guess around 90% DT fans love PT as well, and around 2/3 love Opeth;

guess..

I'd personally *guess* that those numbers are off. My perception is it's closer to being about 30-50% of DT fans are into PT and Opeth, and probably even less Opeth and PT fans are fans of DT. If you referring to shear numbers that go to concerts and things.

I'd say a slightly higher percent, maybe about 1/2 of the PT fan base are fans of Opeth and vice versa. And that is largely due to the relationship and history SW and MA have.

[Perpetual Change]

Like JR said on the Budokan documentary:

"People come to see the prog or the metal but they are also coming to see the players"

This.

(I'd guess around 90% DT fans love PT as well, and around 2/3 love Opeth;

And this.
guess..

I'd personally *guess* that those numbers are off. My perception is it's closer to being about 30-50% of DT fans are into PT and Opeth, and probably even less Opeth and PT fans are fans of DT. If you referring to shear numbers that go to concerts and things.

I'd say a slightly higher percent, maybe about 1/2 of the PT fan base are fans of Opeth and vice versa. And that is largely due to the relationship and history SW and MA have.

[Neada]

It takes years of research and note taking to understand Dream Theater. Primitive bands like Opeth require much less mental fortitude to understand. Its only natural that some people feel threatened listening to Dream Theater, as it may cause shock at first.

Thanks for I have myself laughing now!!!

[MetalManiac666]

It takes years of research and note taking to understand Dream Theater. Primitive bands like Opeth require much less mental fortitude to understand. Its only natural that some people feel threatened listening to Dream Theater, as it may cause shock at first.

I love when you make posts like this it always takes me a second or two to realize you're trolling again, since there's so many fans that are actually like this

I still have no idea where you get this from.  I've never heard a single person say/write/whatever this.

[InTheNameOfGod]

I will always have a soft spot for Dream Theater, but I don't listen to the band much anymore. I don't even click on the DT board these days. I've moved on to better bands.

I think the difference between DT and some of these popular bands (like the ones listed in this thread) - is that DT don't seem to have that ability to adapt. They are technically brilliant yes, but that doesn't deny the fact that they haven't done anything new in years.

Lyrics are also important to my music, and while I thoroughly enjoy some of DT's new songs; it doesn't cancel out the piss-poor lyrics. It's almost embarassingly bad at times. But like anyone else, I can switch off and still enjoy the music at least.

It's got to the stage where i've become the guy who tells others that DT are not the be all and end all. Which is ironic, because 5 years ago DT was pretty much my main band that I listened to daily.

I consider Porcupine Tree, Opeth and Pain Of Salvation to be better than Dream Theater. Maybe not on a technical level, but in terms of writing exceptional music. But that's the DT of today. The DT of old will always be up there with the very best this genre has and will have to offer. No doubt.

In short - i'm really not that bothered about DT anymore. I would actually take a new JP solo album over a fresh DT record. As sad as that may sound.

[LCArenas]

"May" Being the keyword in that phrase. I adore Anathema, Katatonia and Opeth, and I'm starting to like Porcupine Tree a lot (I loved Deadwing) but DT is my favorite band of all time (Tied with Metallica), so it's not a general statement.

[Zantera]

DT almost requires me to be in a certain mood, because even the "simpler" songs aren't simple!
I love them, but at the same time i can't listen to them on a daily basis, my brain needs a rest from prog sometimes.
I can't say the same about Porcupine Tree or Opeth, which are top3 bands for me.
Anathema is another band i really love, meanwhile Katatonia and PoS are 2 bands i think are ok/good, but nothing more.

[Fluffy Lothario]

TOX is right about individualism, but I think it has more to do with atmosphere, as Darkes said, and the perception that Dream Theater don't write music with much of an emotive quality to it.