Kenny G likes Opeth?!

[black_biff_stadler]

*\o

*hunts through BF's last posts*

Mmmmmm...huntin' for "bf"

[bout to crash]

Do any of you guys listen to jazz other than "smooth" jazz? Because I think that might make a difference in one's opinion on this article.

[glaurung]

Does it make a difference? They guy sounds like a douche either way.

[Sigz]

Do any of you guys listen to jazz other than "smooth" jazz? Because I think that might make a difference in one's opinion on this article.

I do, and I actually really like Pet Metheny's stuff as well. I just thought his rant was unprofessional and unnecessary.

[black_biff_stadler]

Do any of you guys listen to jazz other than "smooth" jazz? Because I think that might make a difference in one's opinion on this article.

Does it make a difference? They guy sounds like a douche either way.

I agree with glau on this one. I have no problem with Matheny's view on the matter but just his immature "teen angst" facade through which he delivered his point. There's a relatively wide range of wording options that would place him safely away from both vitriolic pest and sugar-coating wimp by delivering his dislike in a frank yet mature manner.

[ogrejedi]

Kenny G is justifiably hated. He is to jazz as Kraft Singles is to cheese. Pat Matheny, on the other hand, is among the greatest modern jazz musicians. Check out The Way Up and if you don't prefer it to Kenny G, you officially have horrible taste and should be banned from this forum

[glaurung]

I'm not debating that. All I'm saying is that he still comes off as a major douche.

[black_biff_stadler]

Kenny G is justifiably hated. He is to jazz as Kraft Singles is to cheese. Pat Matheny, on the other hand, is among the greatest modern jazz musicians.

So brie or roquefort or cheddar are justified for being prickish if they so desire?

[ogrejedi]

Kenny G is justifiably hated. He is to jazz as Kraft Singles is to cheese. Pat Matheny, on the other hand, is among the greatest modern jazz musicians.

So brie or roquefort or cheddar are justified for being prickish if they so desire?

I don't care what cheddar says. I just enjoy its taste. I also don't care if a Kraft Single shows up at a concert of a band I like; it still tastes horrible.

[black_biff_stadler]

Kenny G is justifiably hated. He is to jazz as Kraft Singles is to cheese. Pat Matheny, on the other hand, is among the greatest modern jazz musicians.

So brie or roquefort or cheddar are justified for being prickish if they so desire?

I don't care what cheddar says. I just enjoy its taste. I also don't care if a Kraft Single shows up at a concert of a band I like; it still tastes horrible.

Buuuut, what if you saw cheezinator at a concert?

[ogrejedi]

Kenny G is justifiably hated. He is to jazz as Kraft Singles is to cheese. Pat Matheny, on the other hand, is among the greatest modern jazz musicians.

So brie or roquefort or cheddar are justified for being prickish if they so desire?

I don't care what cheddar says. I just enjoy its taste. I also don't care if a Kraft Single shows up at a concert of a band I like; it still tastes horrible.

Buuuut, what if you saw cheezinator at a concert?

I'd guard my butthole closely.

[black_biff_stadler]

Kenny G is justifiably hated. He is to jazz as Kraft Singles is to cheese. Pat Matheny, on the other hand, is among the greatest modern jazz musicians.

So brie or roquefort or cheddar are justified for being prickish if they so desire?

I don't care what cheddar says. I just enjoy its taste. I also don't care if a Kraft Single shows up at a concert of a band I like; it still tastes horrible.

Buuuut, what if you saw cheezinator at a concert?

I'd guard my butthole closely.

 

[billyzamore]

That PM article is spot on.  I'm gonna come off sounding snobbish for my first post but Kenny G is such an embarrassment to jazz and music as an art form that if the greatest jazz guitarist since Wes Montgomery wants to point out what every other respectable jazz musician would rather say with profanity I have no problem with it.  Oh, and Metheny is more or less one of the classiest musicians out there.

This forum hates on perfectly good pop music a lot more venomously than the PM article hates on Kenny G.

[Sigz]

I don't really care whether PM likes Kenny G or not, but hating on someone for the reasons that he did is not valid as a criticism and it certainly isn't classy. It just makes you look like a pretentious dick.

[glaurung]

"Waaaaah! Kenny G is a crap musician but is way more successful than me."

Welcome to the music industry.

[Gadough]

Kenny G is justifiably hated. He is to jazz as Kraft Singles is to cheese.

I like Kraft Singles

[black_biff_stadler]

Kenny G is justifiably hated. He is to jazz as Kraft Singles is to cheese.

I like Kraft Singles

In the world of pseudocheese Velveeta stomps it though.

[Dr. SeaWolf]

How can you hate the guy responsible for this song?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHFWqk08tNY&feature=related



I'm completely serious.

[black_biff_stadler]

How can you hate the guy responsible for this song?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHFWqk08tNY&feature=related



I'm completely serious.

Fuck! When did you Brule-ize your avatar?!? 67 mega-awesome points to you chief 

[bout to crash]

I don't really care whether PM likes Kenny G or not, but hating on someone for the reasons that he did is not valid as a criticism and it certainly isn't classy. It just makes you look like a pretentious dick.

Wait, what?? I can understand why people might think the way he presented his argument was immature or whatever, but he gives perfectly good reasons for hating the guy's shitty music.

[Sigz]

I don't consider 'he uses certain scales a lot' or 'he once recorded over another famous song' to be a reason to say he sucks, and it certainly doesn't justify calling for a boycot of his music.

[bout to crash]

Well, that's a matter of opinion. I'm sure he was not close to the only person offended by that whole thing.


But I boycott his music because it makes my ears bleed 

[Sigz]

Well of course it's an opinion, but to me neither one of those things are indicative of being a bad musician. I mean, recording over a 'sacred' song may offend a lot people, but it has nothing to do with musicianship.

[ZBomber]

Yeah, that article just makes PM seem like a total jackass... just the way he presented his opinion was very unprofessional.

[Fluffy Lothario]

I'm actually kinda with btc on this one.

The guy could have used a lot more tact, but isn't it plausible that an extremely gifted jazz musician, who probably has a fairly high standard of how he envisages jazz should be handled due to his own work in, dedication to and love of the genre, would criticise Kenny G's music for reasons to do with music theory and protecting the work of the pioneers?

If that argument was coming from any old jazz enthusiast hack, I'd be more inclined to write it off as pretentious snobbery, but if it's conceivable that anyone could hold an opinion like that and be half justified in doing so, he would certainly be in that group.

And I'm not even saying I agree with PM. Hell, I've never even heard Kenny G's music.

[Sigz]

Protecting the work of the pioneers has nothing to do with Kenny's own music though.

And I still don't see music theory as a valid criticism. I doubt he would criticize a minimalist composer for being too simplistic, or a blues guitarist for using lots of pentatonic scales, but it's ok to criticize a jazz musician on those grounds just because it's 'jazz'?

[Fluffy Lothario]

For all we know, he enjoys the music of minimalist composers and blues guitarists.

Look, everyone has their own taste, and everyone's taste is going to be determined by different factors. Some people can't listen to a song made entirely electronically. Some people can't stomach a verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus rock song. Some people have no interest in hearing music which focuses on the musicians/solos instead of lyrics and singers. We all like to hear different things, and don't like to hear different things.

I can't see why it isn't understandable that a fairly accomplished musician's taste could be determined by things he does and doesn't like to hear in the realm of theory.

[Sigz]

For all we know, he enjoys the music of minimalist composers and blues guitarists.

That's exactly my point. Why is it ok for them to be simplistic or use the same scales, but not ok for Kenny G?

What scale you're playing has little to do with whether a song or solo is actually good. Take the solo in Trains - the studio version's solo is great, John Wesley's live solo sucks ass. They're both in the same key and use the same scales, but one is great and one detracts from the song. Metheny's statement seems to be implying that he judges music (or at least jazz) based solely on music theory rather than whether or not it sounds good. That's my issue with it (besides the general snobbery that permeates the entire thing).

[black_biff_stadler]

For all we know, he enjoys the music of minimalist composers and blues guitarists.

Look, everyone has their own taste, and everyone's taste is going to be determined by different factors. Some people can't listen to a song made entirely electronically. Some people can't stomach a verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus rock song. Some people have no interest in hearing music which focuses on the musicians/solos instead of lyrics and singers. We all like to hear different things, and don't like to hear different things.

I can't see why it isn't understandable that a fairly accomplished musician's taste could be determined by things he does and doesn't like to hear in the realm of theory.

I don't find anything wrong with him having an opinion based on that but he seems to go beyond expressing it as opinion and imply it to be fact. Variances in people's tastes is no reason to simply bash someone especially when you've already made it painfully clear you have an agenda as is the case with Metheny's stance on the Satchmo issue.

[Fluffy Lothario]

For all we know, he enjoys the music of minimalist composers and blues guitarists.

That's exactly my point. Why is it ok for them to be simplistic or use the same scales, but not ok for Kenny G?

What scale you're playing has little to do with whether a song or solo is actually good. Take the solo in Trains - the studio version's solo is great, John Wesley's live solo sucks ass. They're both in the same key and use the same scales, but one is great and one detracts from the song. Metheny's statement seems to be implying that he judges music (or at least jazz) based solely on music theory rather than whether or not it sounds good. That's my issue with it (besides the general snobbery that permeates the entire thing).

Okay, the first thing I'm going to say is I don't play an instrument, and know jackshit about music theory myself. So this entire discussion is looking at things I only very vaguely understand.

But looking back at the article, the way I read it, I don't think he has a problem with pentatonic scales fullstop. He isn't slamming Kenny G for using them at all, he's slamming him for being almost entirely limited in skill to using them, and using them poorly (in his opinion). To me, that isn't judging it based purely on the theory. There is a measure of whether or not he thinks it sounds good.

I can't see why it isn't understandable that a fairly accomplished musician's taste could be determined by things he does and doesn't like to hear in the realm of theory.

I don't find anything wrong with him having an opinion based on that but he seems to go beyond expressing it as opinion and imply it to be fact. Variances in people's tastes is no reason to simply bash someone especially when you've already made it painfully clear you have an agenda as is the case with Metheny's stance on the Satchmo issue.

Well, a lot of people tend to express their opinions as fact. He does go pretty far though, I admit, but again, that has more to do with how he puts forth his opinion, not the opinion itself.

[Dr. SeaWolf]

How can you hate the guy responsible for this song?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHFWqk08tNY&feature=related



I'm completely serious.

Fuck! When did you Brule-ize your avatar?!? 67 mega-awesome points to you chief 

All the credit should go to the brilliance of John C. Reilly

[black_biff_stadler]

9 year bump cuz why not. I just found this thread on Google cuz I was buzzed and searching for stuff about Kenny G being at an Opeth concert and now can't even remember what led me to do that.