Falling into Infinity is amazing

[Rodni Demental]

For me the anomalies are You Not Me, Take Away My Pain and Hollow Years. Not necessarily bad songs but there's definitely something weird about them that I struggle to resonate with, I've felt this way since I first heard them and believe me, I've tried to like them.

Do you feel similarly about the 2004 live version of Hollow Years, or just the album version? To be honest I prefer JR's solo piano version of that particular song by a lot, but just curious if the more 'electric' version with the extended solo would have fit better on the album instead of the original?

That's a good point, I think the those live versions are much better, especially the later versions with the guitar solo, but even the live versions during the FII tour had some more spice to it with the keys if I remember correctly. I would note that I feel similarly about Space Dye Vest vs the live version for basically the same reasons.

[BRGM]

Falling Into Infinity is pretty great yeah, I like Derek's contributions and the varied musical styles throughout the album. I for one love Doug's vocals on Lines In the Sand and it's definetely a top 10 song for me 

Felt like I never ranked the songs on this album so...

Lines In the Sand
Trial of Tears
Hell's Kitchen

Peruvian Skies
Hollow Years
New Millennium
Anna Lee

Take Away My Pain
Just Let Me Breathe

Burning My Soul
You Not Me

[pcs90]

I for one love Doug's vocals on Lines In the Sand

Yep, me too. I think they work very well.

[krands85]

I for one love Doug's vocals on Lines In the Sand

Yep, me too. I think they work very well.

Same here 

[BlobVanDam]

I for one love Doug's vocals on Lines In the Sand

Yep, me too. I think they work very well.

Same here 

I was starting to think I was the only one, since everyone seems to hate them. I think they work perfectly for the song.

[Sacul]

I think I'm the only one who thinks LitS is easily the album's weakest song

[KevShmev]

I think I'm the only one who thinks LitS is easily the album's weakest song

[Stadler]

Second, any discussion of this album HAS to include the Ytsejam "Director's Cut" of this record. 

It doesn't really. That is just an under-produced, extended version of mediocrity.

Well, it does.  Not saying you have to like it better, but it is SO different than the final released version (and I am not at all talking "production", only song structure, order, and album content) that it has to be at least considered.

Personally, I DO like that version better, but that is a taste question only and so irrelevant.   But it does go to the band's intent and state of mind at the time. 

[KevShmev]

   Not saying you have to like it better, but it is SO different than the final released version (and I am not at all talking "production", only song structure, order, and album content) that it has to be at least considered.
 

I disagree.  To me, demos are like rough drafts.  Sure, they can be interesting to hear to see what the song sounded like before the final draft, but ultimately since those rough drafts are not found on FII, they really aren't relevant to the discussion of the album itself.  For example, I am a big fan of Raise the Knife and Cover My Eyes (the live acoustic version), but even though those songs are from the FII sessions, they aren't actually on the album, so they don't really have to be considered when discussing the album.

[Train of Naught]

Ranking time!!!!!

11. Take Away My Pain
10. You Not Me
9. Just Let Me Breathe
8. Anna Lee
7. Burning My Soul
6. New Millenium
5. Hell's Kitchen
4. Hollow Years
3. Trial of Tears
2. Peruvian Skies
1. Lines in the Sand

[Cool Chris]

I disagree.  To me, demos are like rough drafts.  Sure, they can be interesting to hear to see what the song sounded like before the final draft, but ultimately since those rough drafts are not found on FII, they really aren't relevant to the discussion of the album itself.

That was the point I was trying to make. We can't evaluate a piece of art based on what was not included. We don't judge a movie based on the deleted scenes found on the DVD. Sure they are part of the record of the evolution of the art, but not for basis of critique of the art itself.

If we want to critique the "Ytsejam Cut" of the album, that is a fine and valid discussion, but separate from the critique of the album itself.

[IDontNotDoThings]

Ranking time!!!!!

Kind of already did this but I'm bored so yeah.

11. Take Away My Pain
10. Hollow Years
9. Anna Lee
8. Burning My Soul
7. You Not Me
6. Just Let Me Breathe
5. Trial Of Tears
4. Hell's Kitchen
3. Peruvian Skies
2. New Millenium
1. Lines In The Sand

[Bertielee]

Top 5 album for me : if the ballads, Anna Lee excluded, weren't dragging it down slightly, it would be top 3 I guess. A very solid album in any case. And the production, guys, the production!

B.Lee

[abydos]

1. Trial of Tears
2. Lines in the Sand
3. New Millenium
4. Hell's Kitchen
5. Burning My Soul
6. Peruvian Skies
7. Just Let Me Breathe / Take Away My Pain
8. Anna Lee
9. You Not Me
10. Hollow Years

Keep in mind I wouldn't rate any of those songs below a 6/10.

[Train of Naught]

I honestly never really bother that much with the production quality as others seem to, WDaDU obviously does drag it down a lot, but DT12 and FII for instance, I never notice any major production flaws.

[Bertielee]

I honestly never really bother that much with the production quality as others seem to, WDaDU obviously does drag it down a lot, but DT12 and FII for instance, I never notice any major production flaws.

I'm not a production guy either, but to me, the production on FII allows the music to breathe, not that on DT12.

B.Lee

[Stadler]

I disagree.  To me, demos are like rough drafts.  Sure, they can be interesting to hear to see what the song sounded like before the final draft, but ultimately since those rough drafts are not found on FII, they really aren't relevant to the discussion of the album itself.

That was the point I was trying to make. We can't evaluate a piece of art based on what was not included. We don't judge a movie based on the deleted scenes found on the DVD. Sure they are part of the record of the evolution of the art, but not for basis of critique of the art itself.

If we want to critique the "Ytsejam Cut" of the album, that is a fine and valid discussion, but separate from the critique of the album itself.

Why not, especially if it makes clear (and it is ABUNDANTLY clear here) that the "final draft" does not reflect the artist's intent?  I grant you, this wouldn't apply to say, The Number of the Beast, where Steve Harris was clear it was his decision to leave off "Total Eclipse", but - and I know there is some disagreement within the members - there was a lot that was out of the control of the band at this time and it forever influenced future releases.  This is not a collection of home demos.  These are more significant than that.

[Cool Chris]

Because releasing an album isn't just about the band and their artistic intent. It is a collaborative effort (artists, producers, label, etc...) and the album was released with the band's name on the disc. I am sure lots of albums are released with the artists thinking or wishing something could have been done differently. We can evaluate the "director's cut" on the album, but in discussion of the album itself, it is a footnote.

[Stadler]

Because releasing an album isn't just about the band and their artistic intent. It is a collaborative effort (artists, producers, label, etc...) and the album was released with the band's name on the disc. I am sure lots of albums are released with the artists thinking or wishing something could have been done differently. We can evaluate the "director's cut" on the album, but in discussion of the album itself, it is a footnote.

Haha, if it isn't about the band or it's intent, what is it about?  Have you ever just gone out and bought an album because it was produced by xxx?  Or bought an album because it was the "latest on Arista Records"?  How about that tour?  Did you go see that tour by the Engineer on the latest Noel Gallagher record?

Listen, I'm trying to be humorous, and there are cases where I would agree with you.   But this was more than that.  There was talk of folding the band because of the record company and label garbage.  This is more than a "footnote". 

[abydos]

Well, it's a good thing the record company got it their way, because most of the demos were pretty bad and later we got SFAM instead of one OK sounding 15 minute song.