The Official Fates Warning thread v. Elsydeon hasn’t been around

[Samsara]

I'm having trouble understanding APSOG's concept. Can someone shed some light for me?

I think it's just about a man contemplating his past life and (specifically) a past love.

I am not fully versed in APSOG's meaning, but I always took it a a reflective and melancholy record on life, much like Queensryche's Promised Land. A record you appreciate more the older you get and can relate to changes in life more readily.

[Lethean]

That Rush cover was the first time I heard Fates Warning. I didn't pay it much attention, but went back after I became an FW fan.

[The Walrus]

I gotta say I like it more than the original... but Ray Alder's voice is also a hundred times better than Geddy's. 

[Lethean]

One day you will realize just how great Geddy is...

[jammindude]

The alarm clock is the key element for me.

These are the musings of an insomniac and the thoughts that keep him awake all night. But at the very end, the morning comes, and the morning gives him the new fresh hope of a new day. Finally at peace with embracing this shade of gray. In that moment of peace of a rainy early morning, he finally fades off to sleep for just a moment.....and then the alarm goes off. Time to start a new day with a bit of hope.

[Mebert78]

I'm having trouble understanding APSOG's concept. Can someone shed some light for me?

I think it's just about a man contemplating his past life and (specifically) a past love.

I am not fully versed in APSOG's meaning, but I always took it a a reflective and melancholy record on life, much like Queensryche's Promised Land. A record you appreciate more the older you get and can relate to changes in life more readily.

I specifically asked Jim about the meaning of APSOG during a meet-and-greet two or three years ago for the Darkness in a Different Light tour.  He said it's about a man laying in bed reflecting upon his life's regrets.

[TAC]

Yup. That makes total sense.

[The Walrus]

The plus side of listening to their last 5 albums yesterday is that I knew I'd enjoy listening to Darkness In A Different Light and Theories of Flight all day today. Those two, Disconnected, Parallels, and Perfect Symmetry would be my top 5 if I had to choose right now. I'm gonna buy those first, probably the latest 2 because they're the most recent and easiest to find. Also I believe it was bosk who said he thought I'd really enjoy them and he's right. Stellar albums, great from start to finish, the production, lyrics, songwriting, they have it all. I love Ray's voice on these albums. Maybe it's just me but it sounds like it has a lot more character on them, he still has great range but the melodies sound more organic and he knows when and how to put power behind it, exactly what I like to hear in a metal singer.

Been a real treat exploring this band from past to present, and learning a whole lot about them and side albums like Arch/Matheos and Tuesday the Sky. Can't stop listening to 'em. Thanks to all of your help Fates Warning has a new huge fan in me 

[SoundscapeMN]

don't forget about A Twist of Fate. It's just 2 tracks, but 2 epics, and honestly, I would put it up against anything both Arch and Fates has done in their entire catalog.

A Twist of Fate to me is simply perfection. 28 minutes of pure prog metal bliss with John Arch and actually in a lot of ways both Matheos and Portnoy never sounding better.

[?]

I'll admit that if I had heard Parallels first, I probably would have loved it far more.   But I had purchased The Spectre Within on the new release rack.  So I had been a fan since 1985.   After having been through AtG, NE, and PS as brand new releases (I even had a prerelease cassette of PS almost 2 months in advance IIRC), Parallels just seemed a bit of a shock by comparison.

That's a pretty interesting view from a modern fan's perspective, because to me Parallels is an extension of what they started with Through Different Eyes on PS, and even on a song like Nothing Left to Say Ray is singing in a slightly lower register, which he'd continue to do on Parallels.

I'm curious to hear everyone's thoughts on the band now that I'm catching up. What do all of you think about the change from Arch to Alder, and the shift in style? When do you think they really got a hold on the prog side of their music; if you were following them in the 80s and 90s, what did you think of their progression with each album? Why was there such a drought in material between FWX and Darkness... and why did Mark Zonder leave the band?

I'm a newer fan (I've listened to them since DIADL came out), but I have to say I can't get into Arch's style of singing at all, so for me the real FW began with Ray's arrival, and even then it wasn't until Parallels that they found their own sound. They've been really consistent, as the only mediocre album they've put out since then IMO is FWX - it's got some great songs, but also some pretty forgettable filler stuff.

I prefer when that is spread out with Frank Aresti. I think Aresti and Matheos really have distinct styles that really make the guitar tandem dynamic (much like original lineup Queensryche).

Actually Jim has said that starting with Perfect Symmetry, Frank has played just solos on his (Jim's) songs: https://fateswarning.com/2013/11/06/rocking-gr-interview-with-jim-matheos-11062013/

It’s confusing because a lot of people think that he’s actually playing… He plays solos in the record. He plays five or six guitar solos. But that’s it. Everything else is basically as we’ve been doing it. And we’ve been doing it that way since “Perfect Symmetry”, believe it or not. We would play the songs that we wrote. So, if there was a song that I wrote it would be all me. So that was this record. It is all myself and Frank just came in and did the solos. That’s quite a big accomplishment to me because he’s a great lead guitar player. He plays a lot of things that I can’t play or I wouldn’t play – most of it I can’t play. So, he added a lot to it. It was great to have him there. We miss him on tour.

[devieira73]

I prefer when that is spread out with Frank Aresti. I think Aresti and Matheos really have distinct styles that really make the guitar tandem dynamic (much like original lineup Queensryche).

Actually Jim has said that starting with Perfect Symmetry, Frank has played just solos on his (Jim's) songs: https://fateswarning.com/2013/11/06/rocking-gr-interview-with-jim-matheos-11062013/

It’s confusing because a lot of people think that he’s actually playing… He plays solos in the record. He plays five or six guitar solos. But that’s it. Everything else is basically as we’ve been doing it. And we’ve been doing it that way since “Perfect Symmetry”, believe it or not. We would play the songs that we wrote. So, if there was a song that I wrote it would be all me. So that was this record. It is all myself and Frank just came in and did the solos. That’s quite a big accomplishment to me because he’s a great lead guitar player. He plays a lot of things that I can’t play or I wouldn’t play – most of it I can’t play. So, he added a lot to it. It was great to have him there. We miss him on tour.

[/quote]

Interesting to know that, because, even in the CDs that Frank didn''t record, I've always felt that the rhythm guitars are at same quality, almost always with two very distinct lines, but complementary with each other. So always really a great job from Jim!

[RodrigoAltaf]

I dunno if this has been discussed here, but to me, Mark Zonder is a true unsung hero of prog metal. I never understood why he's not praised as much as MP - he's just as creative and groundbreaking.

[PowerSlave]

I dunno if this has been discussed here, but to me, Mark Zonder is a true unsung hero of prog metal. I never understood why he's not praised as much as MP - he's just as creative and groundbreaking.

You'll get no argument from me. I think the biggest problem is that the band never got a great deal of recognition outside of a brief time around Parralels.

[Samsara]

I knew that about Aresti. But it's not always just the solos. Take One Thousand Fires. Aresti gets a credit on that song (I believe it was for the bridge, and of course, the solo, but solos don't count toward writing credit generally), but it's mostly just Jim the whole time except in those parts Aresti wrote, which he plays.

I just love the distinctiveness between Aresti and Matheos. The moment Aresti solos, you know it is him. Jim is a more melodic soloist. I sort of think of it in terms of comparison with other bands I love.

Queensryche: DeGarmo/Wilton equals Matheos/Aresti

Alter Bridge: Kennedy/Tremonti equals Matheos/Aresti

When Aresti isn't there, doing a bunch of solos, it is still great, but I love the different dynamic. That's why I loved the fact that both Aresti and Abdow did the trade-off solo in White Flag. Just completely different players, and you know them when you hear them.

[?]

I knew that about Aresti. But it's not always just the solos. Take One Thousand Fires. Aresti gets a credit on that song (I believe it was for the bridge, and of course, the solo, but solos don't count toward writing credit generally), but it's mostly just Jim the whole time except in those parts Aresti wrote, which he plays.

I just love the distinctiveness between Aresti and Matheos. The moment Aresti solos, you know it is him. Jim is a more melodic soloist. I sort of think of it in terms of comparison with other bands I love.

Queensryche: DeGarmo/Wilton equals Matheos/Aresti

Alter Bridge: Kennedy/Tremonti equals Matheos/Aresti

When Aresti isn't there, doing a bunch of solos, it is still great, but I love the different dynamic. That's why I loved the fact that both Aresti and Abdow did the trade-off solo in White Flag. Just completely different players, and you know them when you hear them.

Ah, my bad - I thought you were talking about the rhythm and lead parts, because you used Wilton and DeGarmo as an example.

I dunno if this has been discussed here, but to me, Mark Zonder is a true unsung hero of prog metal. I never understood why he's not praised as much as MP - he's just as creative and groundbreaking.

Yeah, Zonder is a really underrated drummer.

[devieira73]

Zonder's playing has everything and nobody mix acoustic and eletronic drums the way he does, so well blended (among others, listen to Life in Still Water)! By the way, it amazed me that he wasn't even invited to DT auditions. This was confirmed by Zonder in his Facebook - after a fan asked him about it and, worst, Zonder replied using "unfortunately..." (or something in that sense). I guess he had interest on it... oh, well

[The Walrus]

That would've been far more interesting than seeing Derek Roddy or even (as much as I love him) Aquiles Priester.

[gzarruk]

Zonder's playing has everything and nobody mix acoustic and eletronic drums the way he does, so well blended (among others, listen to Life in Still Water)! By the way, it amazed me that he wasn't even invited to DT auditions. This was confirmed by Zonder in his Facebook - after a fan asked him about it and, worst, Zonder replied using "unfortunately..." (or something in that sense). I guess he had interest on it... oh, well

Well, to be fair, they did invite a FW drummer to audition (Bobby Jarzombek)

[The Walrus]

While I toiled away at work, I put on the new Threshold album... and then I decided, why the hell not, I'll put on Arch/Matheos and see how good this is.

I'm still trying to pick my jaw up off the floor. None of you were exaggerating. That album is INCREDIBLE.

Many years ago I'd pirate the hell out of music... I'm glad Spotify gives me a chance to legally listen to most anything I want, even if it's not exactly a fair compensation to the artists. But that's why I also buy CDs in this day and age... hope I can snag a copy of this because DUDE. Stained Glass Sky!!

[devieira73]

Zonder's playing has everything and nobody mix acoustic and eletronic drums the way he does, so well blended (among others, listen to Life in Still Water)! By the way, it amazed me that he wasn't even invited to DT auditions. This was confirmed by Zonder in his Facebook - after a fan asked him about it and, worst, Zonder replied using "unfortunately..." (or something in that sense). I guess he had interest on it... oh, well

Well, to be fair, they did invite a FW drummer to audition (Bobby Jarzombek)

Well, also to be fair, Zonder and Jarzombek would be my ideal choices to replace MP and certainly I wouldn't know decide who to choose! 

[SoundscapeMN]

While I toiled away at work, I put on the new Threshold album... and then I decided, why the hell not, I'll put on Arch/Matheos and see how good this is.

I'm still trying to pick my jaw up off the floor. None of you were exaggerating. That album is INCREDIBLE.

Many years ago I'd pirate the hell out of music... I'm glad Spotify gives me a chance to legally listen to most anything I want, even if it's not exactly a fair compensation to the artists. But that's why I also buy CDs in this day and age... hope I can snag a copy of this because DUDE. Stained Glass Sky!!

Sympathetic Resonance is GREAT. I put in my top 5 albums from 2011.

But I'll say it again.


This is EVEN BETTER

[gzarruk]

While I toiled away at work, I put on the new Threshold album... and then I decided, why the hell not, I'll put on Arch/Matheos and see how good this is.

I'm still trying to pick my jaw up off the floor. None of you were exaggerating. That album is INCREDIBLE.

Many years ago I'd pirate the hell out of music... I'm glad Spotify gives me a chance to legally listen to most anything I want, even if it's not exactly a fair compensation to the artists. But that's why I also buy CDs in this day and age... hope I can snag a copy of this because DUDE. Stained Glass Sky!!

I could never get through that album. Great musicianship, but Arch's vocals just don't do it for me 

Zonder's playing has everything and nobody mix acoustic and eletronic drums the way he does, so well blended (among others, listen to Life in Still Water)! By the way, it amazed me that he wasn't even invited to DT auditions. This was confirmed by Zonder in his Facebook - after a fan asked him about it and, worst, Zonder replied using "unfortunately..." (or something in that sense). I guess he had interest on it... oh, well

Well, to be fair, they did invite a FW drummer to audition (Bobby Jarzombek)

Well, also to be fair, Zonder and Jarzombek would be my ideal choices to replace MP and certainly I wouldn't know decide who to choose! 

I think BJ would be a perfect fit for DT if MM ever decides to leave.

[PowerSlave]

While I toiled away at work, I put on the new Threshold album... and then I decided, why the hell not, I'll put on Arch/Matheos and see how good this is.

I'm still trying to pick my jaw up off the floor. None of you were exaggerating. That album is INCREDIBLE.

Many years ago I'd pirate the hell out of music... I'm glad Spotify gives me a chance to legally listen to most anything I want, even if it's not exactly a fair compensation to the artists. But that's why I also buy CDs in this day and age... hope I can snag a copy of this because DUDE. Stained Glass Sky!!

Sympathetic Resonance is GREAT. I put in my top 5 albums from 2011.

But I'll say it again.


This is EVEN BETTER

Relentless is one of my favorite songs of all time. OF ALL TIME!!!

[pogoowner]

Sympathetic Resonance blew my damn mind the first time I heard it. I had always written off John Arch before that.

[Mister Gold]

While I toiled away at work, I put on the new Threshold album... and then I decided, why the hell not, I'll put on Arch/Matheos and see how good this is.

I'm still trying to pick my jaw up off the floor. None of you were exaggerating. That album is INCREDIBLE.

Many years ago I'd pirate the hell out of music... I'm glad Spotify gives me a chance to legally listen to most anything I want, even if it's not exactly a fair compensation to the artists. But that's why I also buy CDs in this day and age... hope I can snag a copy of this because DUDE. Stained Glass Sky!!

Sympathetic Resonance is GREAT. I put in my top 5 albums from 2011.

But I'll say it again.


This is EVEN BETTER

Twist of Fate's good and all, but it is not better than Sympathetic Resonance. Not by a long shot.

[Lethean]

While I toiled away at work, I put on the new Threshold album... and then I decided, why the hell not, I'll put on Arch/Matheos and see how good this is.

I'm still trying to pick my jaw up off the floor. None of you were exaggerating. That album is INCREDIBLE.

Many years ago I'd pirate the hell out of music... I'm glad Spotify gives me a chance to legally listen to most anything I want, even if it's not exactly a fair compensation to the artists. But that's why I also buy CDs in this day and age... hope I can snag a copy of this because DUDE. Stained Glass Sky!!

Sympathetic Resonance is GREAT. I put in my top 5 albums from 2011.

But I'll say it again.


This is EVEN BETTER

Twist of Fate's good and all, but it is not better than Sympathetic Resonance. Not by a long shot.

+1  Sympathetic Resonance is by far the best thing I've heard with Arch.

[The Walrus]

I've been listening to Sympathetic Resonance at least twice a day every day... just listened to Stained Glass Sky again. This is the best Fates Warning album that the actual Fates Warning didn't put out (even though it might as well be a FW album). The music is great and Jim Matheos is a star but I just can't wrap my head around how good Arch sounds nearly 30 years later. It's just unbelievable. I don't understand why he hasn't been on a ton of prog/metal/prog metal releases throughout the decades, it just seems to be his solo album, the FW stuff, and Arch/Matheos. And another band called Misfit prior to FW. This guy should be so much bigger...

[pogoowner]

I've been listening to Sympathetic Resonance at least twice a day every day... just listened to Stained Glass Sky again. This is the best Fates Warning album that the actual Fates Warning didn't put out (even though it might as well be a FW album). The music is great and Jim Matheos is a star but I just can't wrap my head around how good Arch sounds nearly 30 years later. It's just unbelievable. I don't understand why he hasn't been on a ton of prog/metal/prog metal releases throughout the decades, it just seems to be his solo album, the FW stuff, and Arch/Matheos. And another band called Misfit prior to FW. This guy should be so much bigger...

The primary reason, from what I understand, is that he just doesn't enjoy the touring lifestyle that goes along with being a full-time musician.

[The Walrus]

I've been listening to Sympathetic Resonance at least twice a day every day... just listened to Stained Glass Sky again. This is the best Fates Warning album that the actual Fates Warning didn't put out (even though it might as well be a FW album). The music is great and Jim Matheos is a star but I just can't wrap my head around how good Arch sounds nearly 30 years later. It's just unbelievable. I don't understand why he hasn't been on a ton of prog/metal/prog metal releases throughout the decades, it just seems to be his solo album, the FW stuff, and Arch/Matheos. And another band called Misfit prior to FW. This guy should be so much bigger...

The primary reason, from what I understand, is that he just doesn't enjoy the touring lifestyle that goes along with being a full-time musician.

That's a shame. It would've been great to hear him on a bunch of studio recordings over the years, though. On the plus side I suppose it kept his voice in shape enough for Sympathetic Resonance, so... 

I know Kai Hansen is similar, he hates touring big time but for some reason he's stuck with it. When he toured the USA with Gamma Ray in 2011, he only played five shows!

[Lethean]

I think Symphathic Resonance is a great album, but again, those vocals are just hard for me to take on a consistent basis. I do better listening to maybe half the album, or less, at a time. Whereas the albums with Ray - usually when they're over, I'm not ready for them to be over. I'm so glad they made the switch.

[gzarruk]

I think Symphathic Resonance is a great album, but again, those vocals are just hard for me to take on a consistent basis. I do better listening to maybe half the album, or less, at a time. Whereas the albums with Ray - usually when they're over, I'm not ready for them to be over. I'm so glad they made the switch.

Exactly. Arch's voice is not for everybody. Last time I put SR on, I couldn't get through half of it. The music's great but John's voice is definitely not my cup of tea. I'm glad they brought in Ray as well.

[pg1067]

Bump...

I first got into Fates Warning after hearing something on MTV about "other bands you might like if you like Queensryche."  I bought No Exit and was completely blown away -- especially by the Ivory Gate of Dreams, which reminded me so much of 2112 and Hemispheres (conceptually at least) if they had been performed by Iron Maiden.  I learned only recently that it's based on a literary device from Homer's Odyssey (gates of horn and ivory).

I can't remember if I bought Brocken, Spectre and Guardian before or after Perfect Symmetry came out.  I think I only bought Brocken after hearing "Damnation" live.  The studio track paled in comparison, and I never got into the album, feeling like it was a poor excuse for an Iron Maiden copycat.  Spectre and Guardian are HUGE improvements over Brocken, with some truly great songs:  Traveler in Time, The Apparition, Epitaph, Fata Morgana, Guardian, Giant's Lore and Exodus.  However, I will never enjoy the Arch material as much as the Alder material.  Arch's singing style is just strange.  Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with strange, but he seems too often to try and cram twice as many words into a space as he reasonably should.  I've also never heard any live material in which he wasn't horribly out of tune.

Perfect Symmetry is one of the ultimate prog metal masterpieces.  Parallels and Inside Out are obviously more commercial, but they're both so well done (I know Inside Out doesn't get nearly as much love as Parallels, and it's a step down, but it has so very many strong moments).  APSOG was so unexpected, but it's such an amazing record.  When I decide to listen to it, I tend to listen to it a half dozen or more times in a row before moving onto something else.  Disconnected and FWX have never clicked with me, but each has one or two really strong songs.  Darkness in a Different Light was another unexpected gem -- especially I Am, Into the Black and And Yet It Moves.  Theories of Flight still hasn't clicked with me, but I haven't given it enough listens yet, so I'm reserving judgment.

One of the highlights of my concert-going life was seeing the Parallels version of the band in 2010 for the Parallels anniversary mini-tour.  Such an amazing and underrated band.

By the way, my interpretation of the quote about Aresti only playing solos since Perfect Symmetry is that, on the songs Jim wrote, he played all the guitars (except for Frank's solos) and, on the songs that Frank wrote, Frank played all the guitars (except for Jim's solos).  So...on Static Acts, A World Apart and The Arena, that's all Frank (unless Jim has solos on those songs).  Frank didn't have any writing credits on Parallels and Inside Out, so I assume his only playing on those records is is solos (with a special nod to both solos on Monument).

[wolfking]

By the way, my interpretation of the quote about Aresti only playing solos since Perfect Symmetry is that, on the songs Jim wrote, he played all the guitars (except for Frank's solos) and, on the songs that Frank wrote, Frank played all the guitars (except for Jim's solos).  So...on Static Acts, A World Apart and The Arena, that's all Frank (unless Jim has solos on those songs).  Frank didn't have any writing credits on Parallels and Inside Out, so I assume his only playing on those records is is solos (with a special nod to both solos on Monument).

The first solo on A World Apart is Jim and the second is Frank, I'm pretty sure.

I think Frank's solos on Parallels are only Leave the Past Behind, Life in Still Water, Point of View and Don't Follow Me.  I think the rest is Jim.

I'm not too sure with Inside Out, but maybe Outside, Pale Fire, Island in the Stream, Down to the Wire, Face the Fear, and his one in Momument obviously.  Pretty sure Afterglow is Jim, but maybe the first half of Inward Bound could be Frank.

[SoundscapeMN]

vinyl collectors:

Perfect Symmetry and Parallels reissues

https://www.indiemerch.com/metalbladerecords/search/?q=fates+warning

[?]

A FB post from last week (the tour started last night): https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1518887058194232&id=180848601998091

We are having a great time finally touring the West Coast with Theories Of Flight! Next week we begin touring/recording in Europe for our upcoming live album. The band took two days off in Los Angeles to rehearse new material which we have divided into two sets that we will be alternating every night. We are very excited to be playing some songs we haven’t played in a while as well as some we have never played live. We hope to see you all there!!

Bobby's comment on the post:

Yeah, total (West Coast and Europe) = 26 songs in all! Two of them are 14 minutes long, and a few of ‘em are at least half that length.
This is the most drumming that I’ve ever had crammed in my brain!

Two 14-minute songs = Still Remains and the premiere of And Yet It Moves, perhaps? It sucks that they're not coming nearby, but I'm stoked for the live album.