The Dark Knight Rises

[Perpetual Change]

I just hope the 3rd one ends up being as good as Batman Begins. The Dark Knight received all the attention and had various parts that were better than Batman Begins, but it was a bit of a letdown as a whole.

I agree.

I've always considered Batman Begins the better film.

TDK was good but I think the obsession over the Joker is what made it so popular. I also didn't like how they rushed the Two-Face storyline. I would have introduced Harvey Dent in TKD, and used him as Two-Face in the final film. I always found that to be a mistake by Nolan, yet not many people seem to pick up on it.

The whole phone-bugging thing was a letdown as well. I expected more of a climax with the Joker than what we got.

Still, it's a solid enough film. But Begins is better in almost ever way, IMO.

Batman Begins is a great movie with a great atmosphere and a well-executed plot. The Dark Knight has a great atmosphere, but the thematic elements are nowhere near as strong, and it meanders on long enough for the entire plot to fall apart. Also, the way the handled Dent was terrible. It all happens way to quick, and everything from his look to his actual time spent as Two-Face is extremely poorly done. I still am baffled about why so many people still completely overlook how bad the last quarter of the movie is.

[ariich]

Yes, the fact that you dislike it makes it objectively bad, and the rest of us are just "overlooking" it.

[Sigz]

The last part of the movie moves too fast, but it's still fantastic.

[skydivingninja]

The last part of the movie moves too fast, but it's still fantastic.

Yup.  Two Face is awesome.

[Perpetual Change]

Yes, the fact that you dislike it makes it objectively bad, and the rest of us are just "overlooking" it.

Damn. I almost forgot that I'm posting at the website where I need to place "IMO" at the end of every sentence, unless I want to be accused of "stating your opinion as objective fact."

The last part of the movie moves too fast, but it's still fantastic.

My impression was that 80 minutes in they realized that they still haven't moved the plot anywhere, and then by the time Two Face becomes Two Face it becomes painfully obvious that there's barely a plot to be found.　Just some good characters. I'm a big believer that characters are more important than plot, but I was just not convinced at all by that twist when I saw it in the theaters, and can't bear to watch the movie on DVD. The ending, of course, is very strong, which is why it left people with such a good impression.  But at that point Batman's monologue over the superserious music was more of a cheap-trick than anything.




All of this is my opinion, obviously.  

[skydivingninja]

It was more of the tone of the last sentence, like you can't believe how stupid we all are for "refusing" to see how bad the last quarter is.  Posting IMO wouldn't change the fact that you sounded incredibly condescending.

[Perpetual Change]

It was more of the tone of the last sentence, like you can't believe how stupid we all are for "refusing" to see how bad the last quarter is.  Posting IMO wouldn't change the fact that you sounded incredibly condescending.

Maybe, but I've been here long enough. If people STILL are just going to assume that I'm a condescending prick, then maybe the time I've spent here really has been useless. The fact that I get called out time and time again  as if I'm some avatar-less n00b doesn't give me a lot of hope. Really, people post their opinions on here way stronger than I do, and I　always am getting called out. Doesn't anything give me the benefit of the doubt?

Being slightly sarcastic there, but still.

[ariich]

SDN is bang on. We know that when you post your opinion that you don't mean it as fact. But the last part about overlooking takes the focus away from what you think (which of course does not require you to always specify that it's an opinion) and moves it to us, like we have to justify ourselves. You may not intend it that way, but it does come across as condescending.

And no, we won't cut you slack. People continue to call you out on it because it's a silly thing to do.

[hefdaddy42]

The Dark Knight is a masterful piece of film.  I don't get the dislike, but I also don't think that PC is prick.

[Perpetual Change]

Sorry, but I really do think people overlook how bad the flaws of the Dark Knight are, simply because of the film's special circumstance and contagious popularity (it's 'cool' to like TDK). And yes, part of my problem is with the fanbase. The fact the the fans immediately voted this to topple the Godfather on the IMDB speaks for itself about just how bizarre the opinions of many who like the Dark Knight are. The love that film gets is simply something I can not understand.

If you or any others feel "attacked" by that (well, you said you have to justify yourselves), I simply have no response. I'm voicing my opinion, as always. I am NOT claiming any of it is "objective fact." I mean, seriously, is my opinion just objectionable, or do you actually think there's a way a could rephrase it?

[hefdaddy42]

You could just leave out the "overlook" comment, because that isn't implying anything, it is a basic insult to everyone's intelligence who doesn't view the film the same way that you do.

IMO

[Sigz]

I never found Harvey's change to Two face to be that unbelievable. On the surface it's quite sudden, but there's numerous scenes throughout the movie where you see just how close to snapping he is, even without anything truly traumatic happening to him.

[MykeHavoc]

Anyone who doesn't like TDK is um...

Sorry, but that film is a masterpiece. It's the Good, the Bad and the Ugly of comic book movies. Not enough good things can be said about it. The amount of depth and underlining themes throughout is astonishing.

[Perpetual Change]

You could just leave out the "overlook" comment, because that isn't implying anything, it is a basic insult to everyone's intelligence who doesn't view the film the same way that you do.

IMO

I don't know, coming out of the theater opening night, I genuinely got the impression that handful of people were outright ignoring the parts everyone was shakey on while they were watching it and riffing off everyone else's "OH MY GOD BEST MOVIE OF ALL TIME." I guess that's what a decent ending can do.

[Jamariquay]

I never found Harvey's change to Two face to be that unbelievable. On the surface it's quite sudden, but there's numerous scenes throughout the movie where you see just how close to snapping he is, even without anything truly traumatic happening to him.

Just quoting this excellent post, for added emphasis. While Batman and The Joker are essentially static characters that merely serve as catalysts for the action, Harvey Dent's arc is the emotional core of The Dark Knight.

Jim Gordon had some really cool, understated stuff going on as well.

[Perpetual Change]

That I'll agree with. Gary Oldman is excellent in a sea of actors trying too hard (Ledger) or not trying at all (Bale). My problem with Dent's arc is that, while the acting is well done, there's not much of an "arc". His story ends just as its getting interesting. I won't press this any further, though, as obviously people have had enough 

[ariich]

A very simple change in wording would have made you sound less arrogant and condescending:

Batman Begins is a great movie with a great atmosphere and a well-executed plot. The Dark Knight has a great atmosphere, but the thematic elements are nowhere near as strong, and it meanders on long enough for the entire plot to fall apart. Also, the way the handled Dent was terrible. It all happens way to quick, and everything from his look to his actual time spent as Two-Face is extremely poorly done. I still am baffled about why so many people like the last quarter of the movie.

That way, those of us that like it can explain why we do. Whereas the wording you chose was attacking, making us defend why we have supposedly "overlooked" such obvious flaws.

Can you really not see the difference?

[NecessaryPain]

Gonna have to agree with Perpetual Change here. He is 100 percent spot-on.

The last quarter of the film was poorly executed, especially for Nolan's standards. I bet he is baffled by how highly rated this film is, infact.

I think it's so popular not just because of Heath Ledger and his performance. It's because it's one of a few films that appeals to the masses and still ends up looking good. There are elements in the film that might look very intelligent for a comic-adaptation, and the fanboys love to see this kind of thing. The neutrals end up feeling satisfied as well, because it never takes itself too seriously. There's a bit of everything in the film that most people can say they liked.

I also think America in general, and their strange obsession with superhero films is another reason why it's as popular as it is.

Like you said earlier - it's 'cool' to like the TDK. Personally, I think it's quite the opposite. It's boring for me to hear people bring up TDK like it's some masterpiece of cinema, when it's as flawed as it is. It might be the best superhero adaptation, but that's purely because it has a brilliant director/writer at the helm.

I'd give Begins an 8 and TDK a 7. +

[pogoowner]

I completely agree with PC's take on the last portion of the movie. And I rarely agree with him on anything.

[Accelerando]

Only news that's official is:

* Release date: July 20th, 2012
* Christian Bale, Michael Caine, Gary Oldman, Morgan Freeman and Tom Hary are the only confirmed cast members.
* Jonathon Nolan and Christopher Nolan wrote the screenplay, and David S. Goyer and Chris Nolan came up with the story and plotline.
* Hans Zimmer and James Newton Howard are doing the score.
* Wally Pfister is the cinematographer
* It won't be in 3D (unless Warner Bros. change their minds)
* Nolan's pushing for it to be shot entirely in IMAX
* The Joker is NOT coming back
* Neither is Harvey Dent/Two Face
* The Riddler will not be used
* Mr. Freeze has been ruled out, which goes without saying (Although i can see him as a serial killer who puts his victims in a CO2 freezer..... naahhhh)
* Robin won't be in it - Christian Bale even said he won't do the film if Robin is written into the script
* Nolan and Goyer have stated they want to use a more unknown villain from the comics (one not used in previous films)
* Tom Hardy stated that his role is a large role in the film
* The film begins shooting in April 2011
* The film's title is: 'The Dark Knight Rises'

There's also talk about the studios looking for a female lead in the film - they never said what role, but obviously to balance out the gender capacity of the film, there's bound to be a leading lady position, though I doubt it'll be Catwoman or Harley Quinn.

And also, Nolan wants to raise the bar on capturing the new film:

The commitment to IMAX and high-definition cameras will allow Nolan to avoid the dim-image challenges that come with 3D. He said it will let him take the third film in the series into a new strata as far as image quality and the scale that can be achieved with that quality. ”We’re looking to do something technologically that’s never been done before,” Nolan said. “Our ambitions are to make a great movie."

[zerogravityfat]

killer croc would be my vote, some sort of chemical accident causing him to hide away from humanity etc.

[Accelerando]

Can we talk about the Tumbler for a second? I have a debate with a friend that the Tumbler is not the Batmobile, nor was never considered the Batmobile. That it was just the Tumbler, and was used for Batman's convenience as he started to become a crime fighter

[Fiery Winds]

That's a good point, and I wouldn't mind seeing the batmobile proper brought into the third movie.

[cthrubuoy]

Well considering the Tumbler got blown to bits in TDK, Bats is going to need a new mode of transport. It would seem like the ideal time.

[NecessaryPain]

I'd like to see Liam Neeson come back as a 2nd villian (not the main)

But is Ra's Al Ghul immortal...

Has potential.

[Perpetual Change]

I'd give Begins an 8 and TDK a 7. +

This is about how I'd qualify it, too. Though I might rank Batman Begins a bit higher. Bale did a much better job in that one.

[cthrubuoy]

I'd like to see Liam Neeson come back as a 2nd villian (not the main)

But is Ra's Al Ghul immortal...

Has potential.

Has potential to be crap.
Nolan did say he wants to keep the as realistic as possible.

[fadetoblackdude7]

Can we talk about the Tumbler for a second? I have a debate with a friend that the Tumbler is not the Batmobile, nor was never considered the Batmobile. That it was just the Tumbler, and was used for Batman's convenience as he started to become a crime fighter

The Tumbler IS the batmobile.....it's just the only batmobile that has a name.

[fadetoblackdude7]

Anyone who doesn't like TDK is um...

Sorry, but that film is a masterpiece. It's the Good, the Bad and the Ugly of comic book movies. Not enough good things can be said about it. The amount of depth and underlining themes throughout is astonishing.

YES!

[Perpetual Change]

Anyone who doesn't like TDK is um...

Sorry, but that film is a masterpiece. It's the Good, the Bad and the Ugly of comic book movies. Not enough good things can be said about it. The amount of depth and underlining themes throughout is astonishing.

YES!

Yeah, I mean, it's not like that's saying a whole lot.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

That I'll agree with. Gary Oldman is excellent in a sea of actors trying too hard (Ledger) or not trying at all (Bale). My problem with Dent's arc is that, while the acting is well done, there's not much of an "arc". His story ends just as its getting interesting. I won't press this any further, though, as obviously people have had enough 

Are you seriously criticizing Ledger for an over-the-top performance of an over-the-top character?

[Perpetual Change]

No. He made the character his own, but not in a good way. Not gonna get into a whole Joker debate though. Let's just say I like Burton's Batman better and leave it at that.

[NecessaryPain]

I'd like to see Liam Neeson come back as a 2nd villian (not the main)

But is Ra's Al Ghul immortal...

Has potential.

Has potential to be crap.
Nolan did say he wants to keep the as realistic as possible.

Why would it be crap? You didn't actually see the man die - and he was a great villian. (far better than Two Face)

I think it could work given the right approach.

Sure, I guess it's unrealistic, but Batman is anything but realistic in the first place.

Ra's being alive is makes more sense than jumping from a skyscraper, catching your girlfriend in mid-air and then somehow managing to bounce off a car and not hurt yourself.

Batman could have been far more gritty/dark if Nolan headed in that direction.

[ReaPsTA]

No. He made the character his own, but not in a good way. Not gonna get into a whole Joker debate though. Let's just say I like Burton's Batman better and leave it at that.

This is code speak for "I have a really strongly held opinion that I think is better than that of others.  But if I discuss it nobody will understand my arguments, so I'll just post about how I won't post my reasons for believing for what I believe."

[Perpetual Change]

Actually, it just means what I wrote. But if you want to pretend there's a code and I'm just being a jackass, go ahead, Reap! You're cool in my book, too