Author Topic: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......  (Read 27695 times)

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Offline sonatafanica

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Re: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......
« Reply #140 on: May 02, 2010, 07:50:09 PM »
The "we're all crying" part?


No, it's actually the part with OF COURSE IT'S THAT PART

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Re: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......
« Reply #141 on: May 02, 2010, 07:50:31 PM »
Eh, I barely consider that a reprise. But whatever works.
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Offline Ultimetalhead

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Re: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......
« Reply #142 on: May 02, 2010, 07:51:05 PM »
Just because it's not as blatant as the Ashes reprise in Idioglossia doesn't make it not a reprise. :p
Orion....that's the one with a bunch of power chords and boringly harsh vocals, isn't it?
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Offline sonatafanica

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Re: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......
« Reply #143 on: May 02, 2010, 07:51:22 PM »
So you barely consider taking the entire chorus of a song and putting it into another song to be a reprise?

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Re: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......
« Reply #144 on: May 02, 2010, 07:53:18 PM »
So you barely consider taking the entire chorus of a song and putting it into another song to be a reprise?

No, I barely consider taking a slightly similar melody and similar words and throwing it into another song to be a reprise. I dunno, it just never "wowd" me and we're talking about my favorite album of all time here.
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Offline sonatafanica

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Re: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......
« Reply #145 on: May 02, 2010, 07:54:57 PM »
It's not really slightly similar. More like the exact same melody. Just a little slower.

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Re: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......
« Reply #146 on: May 02, 2010, 07:55:56 PM »
Eh, starts off. Drifts away from it though.

Hey man, if that part gets you hard, more power to you, I am all for people enjoying this album on as many levels as possible. It just do much for me.
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Offline bout to crash

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Re: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......
« Reply #147 on: May 02, 2010, 07:56:05 PM »
I always noticed that but never thought of it as a reprise although I guess it fits the definition?




Also, thanks Jack, you're the first person on this board who agrees with me about Enter Rain.

Really? Yeah, just doesn't do it for me quite the same, doesn't have as much feeling IMO.
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......
« Reply #148 on: May 02, 2010, 07:58:04 PM »

Okay. I'll give my reasons as to why Scarsick is nowhere near what POS is capable of. First off, vocals. Daniel has a pretty awesome voice. We can all agree on that. Why someone with a voice like his would choose to rap is completely beyond me. Second, lyrics. Daniel is an amazing lyricist, yet much of the lyrics on Scarsick are nothing short of deplorable. Third, music. POS has made some of the most emotionally touching progressive metal I've ever heard, and they chose to make Disco Queen.

All of DT's albums have a different sound too. Systematic Chaos is EASILY their least awesome effort. Now, POS is a very diverse band. I agree there. But, Remedy Lane and The Perfect Element sound very similar. They follow the same styles, for the most part. It's what they do best, and that's why I believe those two are their strongest efforts. I'm all about being progressive, but when the music takes such a serious turn for the worse like Scarsick does, I should be allowed to dislike it. I shouldn't have to alter my opinion on it because "Oh, they're trying something new. I have to like it out of respect for the band." Objectively, Scarsick is pretty bad.

The OP should also keep in mind that, except for a few fanatics and the people at Remedy Lane forums (a community you should really just avoid at all costs), what UMH has posted here seems to be the general sentiments about Scarsick from the greater music-listening community.

As far as that line about "humanity not being able to put light bulbs together" in "BE"... those lyrics pretty much sum up everything that's wrong with Daniel Gildenlow when he decides to get on his soapbox.  He's really immature, unfair, and ranty.  He speaks his mind before he bothers taking the time to look at things from all the angles. Had he been alive during the Renaissance, he'd have been the one person bitching that the printing press is making people (who don't even know how to bind books anymore) lazy.

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Re: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......
« Reply #149 on: May 02, 2010, 08:00:47 PM »
I always noticed that but never thought of it as a reprise although I guess it fits the definition?




Also, thanks Jack, you're the first person on this board who agrees with me about Enter Rain.

Really? Yeah, just doesn't do it for me quite the same, doesn't have as much feeling IMO.

Yea, everyone says how the chorus is the most powerful thing ever, but the chorus is the one part of the song I never really cared for very much. Though I will agree the ending is insane.
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Offline bout to crash

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Re: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......
« Reply #150 on: May 02, 2010, 08:10:08 PM »

Okay. I'll give my reasons as to why Scarsick is nowhere near what POS is capable of. First off, vocals. Daniel has a pretty awesome voice. We can all agree on that. Why someone with a voice like his would choose to rap is completely beyond me. Second, lyrics. Daniel is an amazing lyricist, yet much of the lyrics on Scarsick are nothing short of deplorable. Third, music. POS has made some of the most emotionally touching progressive metal I've ever heard, and they chose to make Disco Queen.

All of DT's albums have a different sound too. Systematic Chaos is EASILY their least awesome effort. Now, POS is a very diverse band. I agree there. But, Remedy Lane and The Perfect Element sound very similar. They follow the same styles, for the most part. It's what they do best, and that's why I believe those two are their strongest efforts. I'm all about being progressive, but when the music takes such a serious turn for the worse like Scarsick does, I should be allowed to dislike it. I shouldn't have to alter my opinion on it because "Oh, they're trying something new. I have to like it out of respect for the band." Objectively, Scarsick is pretty bad.


UMH, I understand where you're coming from but there is really nothing objective about this. Of course you should be allowed to dislike the album, because we're all different... so saying it's objectively bad kind of contradicts that in a way. I happen to enjoy the album (even Disco Queen, which I think is awesome and hilarious). I agree it's not as strong as most of the others, but I do appreciate that they're doing something different. I don't think people need to like the album out of respect for that, but I do think the band should be respected for not being stagnant and trying new things, even if we don't like them. That's why I continued to respect DT after I saw them going in a direction I didn't like. Now, however, I don't think they're being very "progressive"... but that's a whole different thread :P


Edit: I also don't see the problem with the rapping thing. DG has done stuff like that before, just not to the same extent... I think it's interesting (even if I don't like it as much as his singing) and don't agree with knocking rap as a form, which it seems like you're doing by basically saying he's wasting his voice on it. Not to mention the rapping serves a purpose.
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Offline bout to crash

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Re: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......
« Reply #151 on: May 02, 2010, 08:10:44 PM »
I always noticed that but never thought of it as a reprise although I guess it fits the definition?




Also, thanks Jack, you're the first person on this board who agrees with me about Enter Rain.

Really? Yeah, just doesn't do it for me quite the same, doesn't have as much feeling IMO.

Yea, everyone says how the chorus is the most powerful thing ever, but the chorus is the one part of the song I never really cared for very much. Though I will agree the ending is insane.

That's weird; I never realized people felt that way about the chorus. I think it's pretty weak, too.
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Offline setrataeso

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Re: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......
« Reply #152 on: May 02, 2010, 08:19:49 PM »
LETS DISCO
NEW REVIEW: Lady Gaga - Born This Way
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=25343.0

Setra, I think that is the best statement I have read on this forum.  Very well said.

Offline wolfking

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Re: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......
« Reply #153 on: May 02, 2010, 08:39:09 PM »
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

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Offline bout to crash

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Re: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......
« Reply #156 on: May 02, 2010, 09:58:53 PM »
Do forum rules apply to PMs or just posts?
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Offline sonatafanica

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Re: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......
« Reply #157 on: May 02, 2010, 10:01:26 PM »
They apply to PMs as well. IF'N YA GET CAUGHT

Offline bout to crash

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Re: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......
« Reply #158 on: May 02, 2010, 10:02:44 PM »
lol... never heard/seen anyone say if'n before


edit: I forgot you can email people through here too, never mind
« Last Edit: May 02, 2010, 10:11:45 PM by Boba2Crash »
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Online Adami

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Re: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......
« Reply #159 on: May 02, 2010, 10:44:09 PM »
lol... never heard/seen anyone say if'n before


edit: I forgot you can email people through here too, never mind

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Offline bout to crash

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Re: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......
« Reply #160 on: May 02, 2010, 10:46:28 PM »
Fine  :P
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Offline AwakeFromOctavarium

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Re: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......
« Reply #161 on: May 03, 2010, 01:28:01 AM »
ENTROPIAAAA
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Offline TheVoxyn

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Re: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......
« Reply #162 on: May 03, 2010, 03:03:34 AM »
I AM.

Offline robwebster

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Re: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......
« Reply #163 on: May 03, 2010, 04:21:56 AM »

Okay. I'll give my reasons as to why Scarsick is nowhere near what POS is capable of. First off, vocals. Daniel has a pretty awesome voice. We can all agree on that. Why someone with a voice like his would choose to rap is completely beyond me. Second, lyrics. Daniel is an amazing lyricist, yet much of the lyrics on Scarsick are nothing short of deplorable. Third, music. POS has made some of the most emotionally touching progressive metal I've ever heard, and they chose to make Disco Queen.

All of DT's albums have a different sound too. Systematic Chaos is EASILY their least awesome effort. Now, POS is a very diverse band. I agree there. But, Remedy Lane and The Perfect Element sound very similar. They follow the same styles, for the most part. It's what they do best, and that's why I believe those two are their strongest efforts. I'm all about being progressive, but when the music takes such a serious turn for the worse like Scarsick does, I should be allowed to dislike it. I shouldn't have to alter my opinion on it because "Oh, they're trying something new. I have to like it out of respect for the band." Objectively, Scarsick is pretty bad.

The OP should also keep in mind that, except for a few fanatics and the people at Remedy Lane forums (a community you should really just avoid at all costs), what UMH has posted here seems to be the general sentiments about Scarsick from the greater music-listening community.

As far as that line about "humanity not being able to put light bulbs together" in "BE"... those lyrics pretty much sum up everything that's wrong with Daniel Gildenlow when he decides to get on his soapbox.  He's really immature, unfair, and ranty.  He speaks his mind before he bothers taking the time to look at things from all the angles. Had he been alive during the Renaissance, he'd have been the one person bitching that the printing press is making people (who don't even know how to bind books anymore) lazy.
It has 3.11/5 on Rate Your Music. From over 800 ratings.

I dunno which "greater music-listening community" you're talking to, but the one I know isn't scandalised when an album doesn't sound like Remedy Lane.

Reception was lukewarm, but the only people who are considering it "objectively bad" are a handful of loyal fans who have too many preconceptions to judge it on its own merits.

Note that half the criticisms are comparative. "Daniel is an amazing lyricist, yet...," "He has x voice, but...," "He's made some of the most emotionally touching progressive metal, and then..." Actually, all of them. Those criticisms couldn't be more unique to hardened fans of Pain of Salvation if they tried. As though a band which makes an emotional and deeply heartfelt album should then be confined to that tiny pallet of fanwank until such time as they disband.

Not being as good as The Perfect Element isn't a crime. It's a very raw, dirty album, which expresses a lot of rage in a creative, and new way. I'm not telling you to like it, I'm just telling you that it's not objectively bad, nor is it the only real way to perceive it. Or even the only common way to perceive it. Yes, it's polarising. But even if everyone who hated it were voting on it with ones - assuming it's total tosh - everyone else has managed to drag it back up over the three mark, ergo an overwhelming number of fours and fives. So the "greater music community" clearly like it more than they hate it, using the best neutral meter I could be arsed to rustle up in five seconds.

Offline Arcaeus

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Re: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......
« Reply #164 on: May 03, 2010, 04:51:28 AM »
 :tup :tup

Offline Pyroph

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Re: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......
« Reply #165 on: May 03, 2010, 05:18:31 AM »
Haha, thread derail but I went to rym and on the Scarsick review page someone bitched about Ghost Reveries sucking so I looked that up and on the recent reviews I found a guy that rated every Opeth and Radiohead album a .5. lol.

Offline Darkes7

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Re: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......
« Reply #166 on: May 03, 2010, 06:53:02 AM »
Eh, Enter Rain is great but compared to other finales of theirs definitely pales. It did not stick with me nearly as much. Beyond the Pale and TPE are so powerful they have actually brought me to tears on bad days...  and Leaving Entropia  :heart
No, no, no, no way. TPE is absolutely and totally awesome, but Enter Rain is on exactly the same level of genius and emotional strength. I know few songs which have such a strong emotional - and intellectual - impact on me. Beyond The Pale isn't even close in my opinion...

The OP should also keep in mind that, except for a few fanatics and the people at Remedy Lane forums (a community you should really just avoid at all costs), what UMH has posted here seems to be the general sentiments about Scarsick from the greater music-listening community.
You've just taken ignorance to a whole new level.
1) I'm not a PoS fanatic, yet I think Scarsick is awesome.
2) The RL board is more whiny about PoS than DTF is about DT, and especially about Scarsick.
3) Do I even need to comment the last part? Scarsick is the most extreme example of a "love or hate" album ever, with the tendency, despite everything, shifting towards the former. It's just the haters are usually louder about it.

Plus, what robwebster said, very good post (like usually).

Offline InTheNameOfGod

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Re: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......
« Reply #167 on: May 03, 2010, 07:49:51 AM »
^Definitely agree with you there, buddy.

Scarsick is a masterpiece.
Currently listening to:

Anathema - We're Here Because We're Here *****
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Les Discrets - Septembre Et Ses Dernières Pensées ***1/2
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Symphony X - The Odyssey ****1/2





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Offline AwakeFromOctavarium

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Re: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......
« Reply #168 on: May 03, 2010, 08:27:07 AM »
Hmm I was wondering why Remedy Lane forum has to be avoided?
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Offline bout to crash

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Re: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......
« Reply #169 on: May 03, 2010, 09:41:54 AM »
ENTROPIAAAA

::clears throat at Adami  :D::


No, no, no, no way. TPE is absolutely and totally awesome, but Enter Rain is on exactly the same level of genius and emotional strength. I know few songs which have such a strong emotional - and intellectual - impact on me. Beyond The Pale isn't even close in my opinion...


Yes yes yes yes way in my opinion. You're totally entitled to your own views but don't tell me I'm wrong for feeling that way :)
 To me, Enter Rain does not enter the realm of "genius." Powerful, yes, but as I said it does not have nearly the emotional impact on me that either TPE or BTP does. We're all different; I have a lot of personal experience that connects me to Remedy Lane and makes it very powerful for me.



I dunno which "greater music-listening community" you're talking to, but the one I know isn't scandalised when an album doesn't sound like Remedy Lane.

Reception was lukewarm, but the only people who are considering it "objectively bad" are a handful of loyal fans who have too many preconceptions to judge it on its own merits.

Note that half the criticisms are comparative. "Daniel is an amazing lyricist, yet...," "He has x voice, but...," "He's made some of the most emotionally touching progressive metal, and then..." Actually, all of them. Those criticisms couldn't be more unique to hardened fans of Pain of Salvation if they tried. As though a band which makes an emotional and deeply heartfelt album should then be confined to that tiny pallet of fanwank until such time as they disband.

Not being as good as The Perfect Element isn't a crime. It's a very raw, dirty album, which expresses a lot of rage in a creative, and new way. I'm not telling you to like it, I'm just telling you that it's not objectively bad, nor is it the only real way to perceive it. Or even the only common way to perceive it. 

Good points  :tup
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Offline Darkes7

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Re: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......
« Reply #170 on: May 03, 2010, 12:07:43 PM »

No, no, no, no way. TPE is absolutely and totally awesome, but Enter Rain is on exactly the same level of genius and emotional strength. I know few songs which have such a strong emotional - and intellectual - impact on me. Beyond The Pale isn't even close in my opinion...


Yes yes yes yes way in my opinion. You're totally entitled to your own views but don't tell me I'm wrong for feeling that way :)
 To me, Enter Rain does not enter the realm of "genius." Powerful, yes, but as I said it does not have nearly the emotional impact on me that either TPE or BTP does. We're all different; I have a lot of personal experience that connects me to Remedy Lane and makes it very powerful for me.
I haven't said you're wrong, just what I think. I know we don't have to agree, but I just felt like explaining how I see it ;)

Offline MirzekDT

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Re: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......
« Reply #171 on: May 03, 2010, 12:48:17 PM »
I don't get how some people can be so ignorant. Nobody have to love every album that's for sure but at least don't "objectively" say how bad and dull it is.

I would rather listen to Scarsick than TPE anyday. I love TPE but Scarsick for me is easily one of the best POS albums. But it took a lot of time to appreciate it, I hated it completely on first listen but then after many many listens I found out how interesting and amazing it is especially musically but also lyrically. Somehow the concept is the easiest and the most interesting to relate to from all POS albums and no I'm against the blind extreme points of view to the world at all and I'm trying to find both positive and negative sides to everything and I know that Scarsick might seem like it has these dull blind crticism lyrics. Even though I don't think so maybe Daniel wanted it that way but if he did I don't care anyway cause all lyrics have to be open to interpretation... And I understand them from the point of view of "he" which should be prettly obvious actually and it explains the blindness of the lyrcis and adds a lot of depth to the them, and music too like Idocracy and especially the verses or how to call them, they are absolutelly awesome when you relate to the main character.

Offline InTheNameOfGod

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Re: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......
« Reply #172 on: May 03, 2010, 01:11:37 PM »
I don't get how some people can be so ignorant. Nobody have to love every album that's for sure but at least don't "objectively" say how bad and dull it is.

I would rather listen to Scarsick than TPE anyday. I love TPE but Scarsick for me is easily one of the best POS albums. But it took a lot of time to appreciate it, I hated it completely on first listen but then after many many listens I found out how interesting and amazing it is especially musically but also lyrically. Somehow the concept is the easiest and the most interesting to relate to from all POS albums and no I'm against the blind extreme points of view to the world at all and I'm trying to find both positive and negative sides to everything and I know that Scarsick might seem like it has these dull blind crticism lyrics. Even though I don't think so maybe Daniel wanted it that way but if he did I don't care anyway cause all lyrics have to be open to interpretation... And I understand them from the point of view of "he" which should be prettly obvious actually and it explains the blindness of the lyrcis and adds a lot of depth to the them, and music too like Idocracy and especially the verses or how to call them, they are absolutelly awesome when you relate to the main character.

Agreed.

I am totally cool with anyone who doesn't like Be or Scarsick. But when people go out of their way to say they're bad - without any real statement as to why they feel this way, well, it does annoy me a bit.

What you see is what you get with PoS. Compared to a large percentage of bands in prog rock/metal, they are very high up the food chain, IMO.

Currently listening to:

Anathema - We're Here Because We're Here *****
Kamelot - Poetry For The Poisoned **
Les Discrets - Septembre Et Ses Dernières Pensées ***1/2
Porcupine Tree - Deadwing *****
Symphony X - The Odyssey ****1/2





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Offline Darkes7

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Re: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......
« Reply #173 on: May 04, 2010, 04:19:18 AM »
Agreed with both posts, very well-said. Just wanted to add that the Scarsick concept is great because it seems very simple at first, but it has several layers hidden much deeper... And when you go there, it's amazing. I don't have a view on the society which is as pessimistic as on Scarsick (even though it definitely is pessimistic anyway), but I can see what Daniel wanted to say, and why it is shown that way. It's the style of the album, that's it.

Btw, thanks for all the Scarsick criticism, you've made me listen to some Scarsick songs again, and soon the whole album. :lol
« Last Edit: May 04, 2010, 04:28:18 AM by Darkes7 »

Offline wolfking

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Re: I have lost my Pain of Salvation virginity today, I purchased......
« Reply #174 on: May 04, 2010, 05:28:45 AM »
I am just listening to the album again now, after work.  I'm actually liking the title track quite a bit.  :azn:
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