Poll

Do you want more or less "growl-style" lead vocals from Mike Portnoy in future Dream Theater albums?

More
34 (21.9%)
Less
121 (78.1%)

Total Members Voted: 149

Author Topic: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT  (Read 25628 times)

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Offline El JoNNo

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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2010, 12:09:51 AM »
Backing vocals are fine, one or few words as a back and forth section. As they have been doing minus ANTR, which was terrible. MP is not good at growling (very few bands have a vocalist that are), so I would say less is or the same amount (minus ANTR).

Offline Mladen

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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2010, 12:42:19 AM »
I'm not bothered by his vocals, but if I have to choose something, I choose less. I'd like James to start overdubbing the vocal melodies again, instead of having Mike and John yelling in the background...

Offline El JoNNo

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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2010, 12:46:19 AM »
I wouldn't say they yell in the background. I prefer that JP and MP do the background vocal A) they are not bad at all B) it doesn't sound like there is a void in the vocals from lack of multiple JLB.

Offline sneakyblueberry

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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2010, 01:16:01 AM »
Less.

Mostly because I don't think that MP really has that great of a singing voice or he doesn't utilize it all that well, at least not lately.

I think he's done some of his best vocal work of his career as of late.  The Queen medley especially. 

Whatever suits the music, do it.  If you don't like a growl, don't listen to the freakin thing.

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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2010, 04:36:36 AM »
However, what I do find absolutely hilarious is that MP's vocals on TGP are being lumped in with the pseudo-cookie vocals in ANtR, TDEN, etc. MP's vocals in TGP are clean, just like in SDVu!  :P
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Offline robwebster

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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #40 on: March 09, 2010, 04:38:25 AM »
Problem with that is that regardless of how people might actually feel, the fence sitters will pick that. Sorry bosk, while I absolutely see what you are saying, I think there wouldn't be many "legitimate" votes that everything is "just right." That's why the poll was done the way it was. Like I said, I see what you are saying, but my response would be, adding that third option would skew the honesty even further...
I disagree with this. I don't think being comfortable with the amount of vocals represents sitting on the fence. The reason most people are here is because they like Dream Theater. Not entirely surprising that they're happy with the amount of backing vocals. The reason that lots of people would say that the vocals are just right is because they think the vocals are used correctly. Seems strange to gear a poll in a way that presumes some kind of dissent. I feel that MP's vocals are used correctly as a stylistic choice.

But hey! I've already played ball. Still interesting.

Offline Dream Team

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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #41 on: March 09, 2010, 07:43:55 AM »
Unfortunately it is all a moot point anyway, as MP is desperate to win over today's teenagers who haven't a clue as to what good singing is. So the harsh vocals will continue to be more and more prominent. "sigh"

I think I'll put Images and Words on now . . .  :'(


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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #42 on: March 09, 2010, 08:14:58 AM »
Harsh, cookie monster, growl style vocals or whatever you wanna call em, don't work unless they're done right.  They have to fit the song and the lyrics.  A good example of it not working is ANTR.  So, I would tend to say "less" is more at this point.
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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #43 on: March 09, 2010, 08:15:12 AM »
I don't know. It's a tough choice, really.

I mean, argument for yes, is that logically that'd mean we'd get more James LaBrie. And there's no such thing as too much James LaBrie; what a talented man. Pleasure to listen to.

On the other hand though, MP's gruff vocals do add a fair bit to DT's sound, and I do love backing vocals. Counterpoint, harmonies, I can't get enough of backing vocals done well. And I can't imagine they'd be gratuitous. There's a good history of bands with very strong backing vocalists - Queen immediately come to mind, or Nightwish more recently and less influentially - and it'd open up a lot of cool paths. They've barely scratched the surface of the potential. Imagine if they wrote more songs like Don't Look Past Me! That'd be wonderful.

DT are very talented, and I'd probably lap it up either way. I think employing less MP vocals would be playing it safe. More MP would be more of a stab in the dark.

Yeah, I'm gonna say more BVs. Progressing rather than regressing. 'citing.

That.

I like how they are to this day trying new things out. Would you really want 10 Images & Words?

Offline tri.ad

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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #44 on: March 09, 2010, 09:28:48 AM »
Harsh, cookie monster, growl style vocals or whatever you wanna call em, don't work unless they're done right.  They have to fit the song and the lyrics.  A good example of it not working is ANTR.  So, I would tend to say "less" is more at this point.

I'd like to agree with this.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #45 on: March 09, 2010, 09:33:16 AM »
I like how they are to this day trying new things out. Would you really want 10 Images & Words?

Because people who do not like growl-style vocals want DT to keep doing the same album over and over?

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #46 on: March 09, 2010, 09:36:58 AM »
If it fits the song, then it's fine with me

They never fit the song. If they happen to fit the song, there is a flaw in the songwriting.
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Offline moffatt

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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #47 on: March 09, 2010, 09:48:02 AM »
For me the MP's 'Harsh' vocals on TGP and ANTR are the highlights of the song for me, they fit the heavy mood especially on TGP mixing with jame's ligher vocals, then when it bursts into that awesome riff with the chanting. But yer it is probaly really dependant on whether it fit's the song. But i voted yes as i would love more songs like TGP and ANTR

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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #48 on: March 09, 2010, 09:49:59 AM »
If it fits the song, then it's fine with me

They never fit the song. If they happen to fit the song, there is a flaw in the songwriting.
...and that is an interesting point, as well.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #49 on: March 09, 2010, 10:22:38 AM »
I'm fine with them as long as MP considered backing out of a certain songwriting decision if they don't end up working. That seems to me the crux of the problem, that in these "one-week album-writing sessions" there is no room for backing out of something that doesn't work. Essentially every musical brainfart gets committed to tape, including the dubious decision to sing harsh vocals over "glad" lyrics.
Had they left the harsh vocals for lyrical description of the car impact, it could have been really powerful and very fitting. As it is, we're listening to a scaled-down cookie monster vocals because it just couldn't be made to work over the lyrics of "by the grace of God, everyone survived."

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Offline Samsara

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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #50 on: March 09, 2010, 11:15:26 AM »
here's the thing. I said this in a separate thread ToX created as well in the Gen. Music section.

One of the distinct characteristics of DT is the operatic vocal style of James LaBrie. It is a strength of the band. In most bands, from what I have observed over the years, bands write the music to the style and strength of their singers. DREAM THEATER USED TO DO THAT. THEY DO NOT ALWAYS DO THAT NOW.

That, IMO, is a big, big problem.

That growl section...if MP heard "death metal vocals" on it, he should have worked with John to change the musical section to FIT JAMES' VOICE.  Hello?! Your singer is an operatic style vocalist. WRITE MUSIC THAT FITS THAT VOICE!

If a band wants to throw a vocal sample or something in there for laughs or for a difference, fine. But if your lead singer is James LaBrie, you shouldn't be having lead vocal lines that are not of a style he is meant for or comfortable singing.

DT doesn't do it all the time, and MP has said in the past they always write with James in mind. But if that's so, then WHY DIDN'T THEY RE-WRITE THAT SECTION? No growling vocals were necessary as a LEAD line. Your lead singer is now a growl-type vocalist. Capitalize on his strengths, and if music needs to be re-written to do that, then do it, or remove the section.

Dream Theater didn't make its name on Mike Portnoy's vocals. They did it on their musicianship and the lead vocal of Kevin James LaBrie. By going away from the latter element and letting MP do growling LEAD vocals on their music, you shy away from an element that made Dream Theater distinct in the first place.
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Offline ariich

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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #51 on: March 09, 2010, 11:31:21 AM »
I disagree entirely with you there I'm afraid Sam, I don't think a band has to write every single line with the lead singer in mind. And I also don't think that operatic style singing is an integral part of DT's sound, I've been a fan since SDOIT (when JLB was still doing that style of singing for the majority) and I've just never seen them that way.

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Offline Samsara

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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #52 on: March 09, 2010, 11:42:48 AM »
I disagree entirely with you there I'm afraid Sam, I don't think a band has to write every single line with the lead singer in mind. And I also don't think that operatic style singing is an integral part of DT's sound, I've been a fan since SDOIT (when JLB was still doing that style of singing for the majority) and I've just never seen them that way.

No prob, I don't expect people to agree, but most bands write around their singer's strengths. DT does here and there, but has drifted from that, particularly on the ANtR example (and Portnoy described it himself, saying he heard a death metal growl on the section). My question to him was - why not rewrite it so James could sing it, or delete it then?

Backup vox are one thing. But lead to me should be handled by the lead singer, unless you have a long history of sharing lead vocals (Alice in Chains, Sevendust, The Beatles, etc.). Mike Portnoy was wrong when he said anyone could sing. No, that's not true. people can attempt to sing, and most suck. Portnoy (no offense MP) should stick to background harmonies live (not in the studio, and certainly never lead vocals) in this fan's opinion.
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Offline reneranucci

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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #53 on: March 09, 2010, 11:46:56 AM »
I disagree too. There is no point in saying DT should do this or that. If they want to incorporate a harsher edge and a different type of agressiveness to their music, that´s fine, and they will naturally write something that doesn´t quite fit JLB´s style. It will work well sometimes, but on ocassion the result will be subpar. And at the end, it will only represent a small amount of the vocals anyway. So the problem is that some listeners won´t like it, not that they don´t write  100% of their lines to fit JLB´s style, which would definitely prevent them from exploring new territory.

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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #54 on: March 09, 2010, 12:03:38 PM »
So the problem is that some listeners won´t like it, not that they don´t write  100% of their lines to fit JLB´s style, which would definitely prevent them from exploring new territory.

Disagree. They can explore new territory fitting into James operatic style. VERY easily. Again, I know this isn't a popular opinion, but this is why DT has been dropping like a rock for me in recent years. They write as musicians, instead of writing AS A BAND. Whose fault that is, or why that is, I don't know. But when you have a singer such as James LaBrie in the band, he should be involved with all aspects of the creation of the music. Not merely singing lines.

Whether that is JLB's fault for not pushing it enough, or MP's fault for not including James, I don't know.

But DT can ABSOLUTELY explore new territory and write to the strengths of their lead singer at the same time. Thousands of bands do it on a daily basis.
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #55 on: March 09, 2010, 12:10:45 PM »
I can't stress how much I agree with Sam's last post.  Though, so I'm not taken as merely bashing, I've gotta preface this post by saying the following:

 I don't think Mike's vocals or DT's songwriting as of late have been huge problems, and I've enjoyed two of the band's last three albums just as much as I enjoy Images and Words and Scenes from A Memory.

While reading "Lifting Shadows," I got the impression that James LaBrie's voice is viewed by the band as something that needs to be "reigned in."  I think Mike even says in one of the interviews that he thinks it was probably due to James' voice that the band never got any big mainstream success.  As a result, ever since SDOIT, James vocals seem so "guided" by the "producers" that the final product is, though "good," never really what it could have been.  

It seems to me that when James doesn't get completely left out of writing process, he's given strict instructions on exactly what to sing by Mike Portnoy, who apparently can't write to James' strengths and feels he needs to sing the songs himself; or John Petrucci, who quite frankly can't carry a note in a bucket.

James LaBrie is the vocal expertise of the band, and the albums where he contributed more to the writing are without a doubt the best albums the band has put out.  That Labrie's voice "just doesn't sound good over heavy music" makes absolutely no sense.  We're talking about the singer who sang over Caught in a Web, The Mirror, Lie, Home, and most of the songs on Train of Thought.  Why not let the "specialist" do his job?

As I read this thread, I'm more and more convinced that, regardless of what the band says to justify these growly moments, LaBrie's voice isn't the problem.  Lazy songwriting isn't the problem, either.  As we know, A Nightmare to Remember was originally written with only James in mind and Mike added his part later (we still haven't heard how it sounded with only James on vocals, so we can't tell whether the final product would have been better or not).  The problem is basically "producer" Mike Portnoy's ideas -- not James Labrie's singing-- going unchecked.  And yes, I know Portnoy listens to the fans, that his style of "managing" the band is extremely fan driven, that his clean background vocals are great, and that we fans are lucky to have someone as dedicated as him "keeping the Dream alive."

But Portnoy has got to have realized by now, in his heart of hearts, that most fans are really turned off by his growly vocals.  Most of the older fans either don't like 'em or could do without 'em, and most of the newer generation of kids who listen to bands like Between the Buried and Me, Opeth, A7X and Mastodon recognize Mike's growls for exactly what they are-- forced, "tough metal guy" vocals that make Dream Theater sound like they're trying to hard.

C'mon, DT.  Stop trying so hard to fit in with Between the Buried and Me and Opeth, and take your proper seat next to Yes, Rush, and Iron Maiden.  Though you've never shared their mainstream success, musicians respect you just as much and you're already much bigger than these bands you're trying to imitate now will ever be.  We know you will and can write great music without forcing it.  You'll always be that awesome band made for & by fans of great music.  Is it really worth it to try and be something else?

Offline KevShmev

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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #56 on: March 09, 2010, 12:14:13 PM »
I think the problem regarding JLB's vocals in more recent years is that they seem to not want to write vocal parts that are hard to pull off live, ala "Voices" or "Take the Time," regardless of whether or not JLB can do them in the studio.  I think that is a mistake.  Who cares if he can't do it as well live?  It is like they are dumbing down his vocal parts a bit, that way he can do everything live just as it is on the studio version (of the newer songs).  

And to that end, I definitely wish they would go back to having JLB do ALL of the vocals in the studio.  If they have to overdub his voice for a harmony, big deal.  They did it on "Take the Time" and look how awesome that song turned out.  Can you imagine if that were a new song now?  They probably would have had Petrucci and Portnoy do the "take the time" harmony on the studio version.  Ugh.  

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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #57 on: March 09, 2010, 12:19:56 PM »
I agree Samsara. Taking out the specifics of your argument of James and his vocal style within DT, if you as a band member are trying to write vocal lines that aren't best suited to your singer, you need to think about the types of vocal lines you are writing.

Regarding DT, I think the problem arises when a band member 'hears' a certain type of style, whether it be vocal, or instrumentational (word?) within a particular section of a song, and guides the song/section in that direction.

I've always had the same problem with Lines in the Sand. Supposedly JP wanted that Kings X dude's type of vocals for the song, so invited him in to do backing vocals. Why is he basing the vocal structure of that song around the style of a singer from a different band?

Good post/thread idea by ToX in the other section, too.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #58 on: March 09, 2010, 12:21:19 PM »
Funny thing is, I always thought James sounded best when he's not singing for DT.

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Offline reneranucci

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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #59 on: March 09, 2010, 12:36:18 PM »
So the problem is that some listeners won´t like it, not that they don´t write  100% of their lines to fit JLB´s style, which would definitely prevent them from exploring new territory.

Disagree. They can explore new territory fitting into James operatic style. VERY easily. Again, I know this isn't a popular opinion, but this is why DT has been dropping like a rock for me in recent years. They write as musicians, instead of writing AS A BAND. Whose fault that is, or why that is, I don't know. But when you have a singer such as James LaBrie in the band, he should be involved with all aspects of the creation of the music. Not merely singing lines.

Whether that is JLB's fault for not pushing it enough, or MP's fault for not including James, I don't know.

But DT can ABSOLUTELY explore new territory and write to the strengths of their lead singer at the same time. Thousands of bands do it on a daily basis.
Ok they can, but they don´t HAVE TO. That was my point in the first part of my post, if they want to move away from JLB´s strenghts, that´s fine, some people will like it, others don´t. But it´s DT´s decision on how they want to shape their music and what is the new territory they want to explore.

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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #60 on: March 09, 2010, 01:39:45 PM »
So the problem is that some listeners won´t like it, not that they don´t write  100% of their lines to fit JLB´s style, which would definitely prevent them from exploring new territory.

Disagree. They can explore new territory fitting into James operatic style. VERY easily. Again, I know this isn't a popular opinion, but this is why DT has been dropping like a rock for me in recent years. They write as musicians, instead of writing AS A BAND. Whose fault that is, or why that is, I don't know. But when you have a singer such as James LaBrie in the band, he should be involved with all aspects of the creation of the music. Not merely singing lines.

Whether that is JLB's fault for not pushing it enough, or MP's fault for not including James, I don't know.

But DT can ABSOLUTELY explore new territory and write to the strengths of their lead singer at the same time. Thousands of bands do it on a daily basis.
Ok they can, but they don´t HAVE TO. That was my point in the first part of my post, if they want to move away from JLB´s strenghts, that´s fine, some people will like it, others don´t. But it´s DT´s decision on how they want to shape their music and what is the new territory they want to explore.
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Note bolded emphasis. Isn't James LaBrie an essential part of what is "Dream Theater?" James, particularly being the singer and frontman is an integral part of it all. And if you saw in the BCSL stuff, James did not take part, and James was not happy about it. Isn't taking your singer's strengths and abilities in a band with vocals a very big element of that?

Why would any sane band write something that their singer couldn't or wouldn't want sing?



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Offline Mebert78

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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #61 on: March 09, 2010, 02:00:58 PM »
Growl-type vocals is not part of the quintessential DT sound.  JLB is the vocalist, and Samsara is right that the vocals should be tailored to him.  If MP is growl hungry, then that's what side projects are for, in my opinion.  Let me him create a side-project band where he is the lead singer or has a cookie monster singer.  
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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #62 on: March 09, 2010, 02:20:05 PM »
I like how they are to this day trying new things out. Would you really want 10 Images & Words?

Because people who do not like growl-style vocals want DT to keep doing the same album over and over?

Well where else could a prog metal band go?

Offline MirzekDT

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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #63 on: March 09, 2010, 02:27:00 PM »
I like that you're being provacative Samsara, but I can't bite, because I think the poll is missing the point.

There's no option for "whatever suits the music". :P

It sounds like a contrived overly-intellectualized cop-out explanation, but I think it's absolutely correct. The Glass Prison would take a significant hit quality-wise if the MP vocals were removed. Same with A Rite of Passage. On the other hand, I really don't think they work in The Count of Tuscany. I don't like the approach he went with in A Nightmare to Remember (should have went full on with the death voice IMO). Constant Motion is very iffy vocally, but that's because it's written to suit James Hetfield than James LaBrie or Mike Portnoy.

Writing a song is like constructing a building. Different vocal choices improve or detract from the aesthetic and structural qualities in different ways. It's important to make the right choice for that situation.

I can entirely understand liking the vox on TGP, but the vocals on AROP are even more grating to me than the bebot solo.

lol?

Okay it's subjective but really what is wrong with the AROP MP vocals??? They are amazing and for me one of signature (special) things for that song together with the main riff, chorus and bebot solo

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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #64 on: March 09, 2010, 02:30:34 PM »
I do agree with the idea that JLB should me more of a focus when writing the songs. I don't dislike the harsh vocals at all but I find it hard to believe that an album with JLB doing all the vocals wouldn't be equally as good and seeing as he is frequently off stage digging holes I don't see why he shouldn't always be the singer when vocals come into the song.

Tbh if I was James I'd probably be quite fed up with DT, I don't think he's used effectively enough. He should always (dunno if this is case or not) be consulted on vocal lines and if he thinks the music could be altered to better fit his vocals he should say so. For me James is just as important a member of the band as Mike, JM and JP and I think in the studio he should be as such.
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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #65 on: March 09, 2010, 02:40:12 PM »
Growl-type vocals is not part of the quintessential DT sound.  JLB is the vocalist, and Samsara is right that the vocals should be tailored to him.  If MP is growl hungry, then that's what side projects are for, in my opinion.  Let me him create a side-project band where he is the lead singer or has a cookie monster singer.  

Well said. It's very much like when MP "directed" SFAM DVD (https://www.mikeportnoy.com/aboutmike/faq/answers/6.aspx) - I honestly felt I was watching a high school video project. It didn't resonate anything of DT and definitely took away from the great story-telling of the piece/saga.

And yes, MP likes to watch film and edit as hobbies. I believe he mentions that on the SFAM DVD bonus features.

Point being, there's no need for a DT stamp on MPs side projects or hobbies.


« Last Edit: March 09, 2010, 02:59:22 PM by Bone_Daddy »

Offline bosk1

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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #66 on: March 09, 2010, 02:59:26 PM »
P.C., you raise some interesting points.  But I think you are mistaken about a number of your facts. 

I think Mike even says in one of the interviews that he thinks it was probably due to James' voice that the band never got any big mainstream success.

I'm not 100% sure, but I don't recall seeing that anywhere.  Are you positive Mike said that?

James LaBrie is the vocal expertise of the band, and the albums where he contributed more to the writing are without a doubt the best albums the band has put out.  That Labrie's voice "just doesn't sound good over heavy music" makes absolutely no sense.  We're talking about the singer who sang over Caught in a Web, The Mirror, Lie, Home, and most of the songs on Train of Thought.  Why not let the "specialist" do his job?

Wait, what?  James did NOT contribute to the writing process on any of those albums.  As Lifting Shadows points out, James had not been involved in the writing process at all, and the band finally became frustrated with that approach at the time of Six Degrees that they basically gave James an ultimatum and told him they wanted him to be involved.  ...Because he wasn't involved on prior albums.

But Portnoy has got to have realized by now, in his heart of hearts, that most fans are really turned off by his growly vocals. 

I don't think that is the case at all.  Most of the fans I've heard way in on the issue do like what Mike did.  So, no, I don't think "most" fans are turned off, so in turn, I don't think he would have any such realization.



And if you saw in the BCSL stuff, James did not take part, and James was not happy about it.

???  What?  What gave you the idea he wasn't happy about it?
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Offline ariich

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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #67 on: March 09, 2010, 03:01:27 PM »
I don't think he's used effectively enough. He should always (dunno if this is case or not) be consulted on vocal lines and if he thinks the music could be altered to better fit his vocals he should say so.
Is there any indication that this is the case? I mean, his vocals on BC&SL are the best they've been for years, and even with SC he himself he had more fun recording it than any other DT album.

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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #68 on: March 09, 2010, 03:01:51 PM »
Well, although I agree with most of the points Bosk just made, I think poll results here pretty well indicate many fans would like him to tone it down.
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Offline Bone_Daddy

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Re: "Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT
« Reply #69 on: March 09, 2010, 03:02:17 PM »
The problem is basically "producer" Mike Portnoy's ideas -- not James Labrie's singing-- going unchecked.  And yes, I know Portnoy listens to the fans, that his style of "managing" the band is extremely fan driven, that his clean background vocals are great, and that we fans are lucky to have someone as dedicated as him "keeping the Dream alive."

C'mon, DT.  Stop trying so hard to fit in with Between the Buried and Me and Opeth, and take your proper seat next to Yes, Rush, and Iron Maiden.  Though you've never shared their mainstream success, musicians respect you just as much and you're already much bigger than these bands you're trying to imitate now will ever be.  We know you will and can write great music without forcing it.  You'll always be that awesome band made for & by fans of great music.  Is it really worth it to try and be something else?

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