A message to Mike and a quick introduction

[sammmuk]

Hi everyone, after reading the forums for a while I decided to finally join, probably with a first post that will either get locked or make me look stupid, but anyway. Firstly, I have been a Dream Theater fan since Train of Thought came out in 2003 back when I was 12 years old and loved the heavy sound, of course, over time I've accumulated all of their albums, DVD's etc and have never had a problem with any of the music. I think all of the keyboardists and vocal moments have been great - which is what this message is about. I've noticed a lot of hate towards Mike's vocals in ANTR which I think is quite uncalled for, firstly everyone loves his drumming because it always suits the music perfectly, but when he does vocals which are the best sound to fit the music (Seriously, I don't think JLB could have made those  lines which are hardly poignant or thought provoking sound as good as MP) everyone suddenly starts making fun of it. I for one quite enjoy the vocals, I think it's a nice break from all of the (Perfect and good sounding, of course) harmonies and higher notes of the rest of the band's musical collection and the rest of BC&SL.
Furthermore, although this is a bit more of a stupid point to make, I think bashing his vocals on his bands forum is a bit harsh, I mean, it's not like he's never had trouble in the past, it's not like he wrote a whole 12 step suite about it, not that they're related, but come on I think this guy needs more credit than he got for these vocals and should be cut some slack. Sorry for the long / boring / probably already discussed post but I would like to discuss why you don't like his vocals, and if you do, show some appreciation for them. 

[AcidLameLTE]

Portnoy...vocalist?

[YtseBitsySpider]

welcome to the board.

[sammmuk]

Thanks. Hope I've not annoyed anyone with that post, just felt like speaking up about it though really. On the topic of vocalists, what's people's general opinion on Kevin Moore's version of Space-Dye Vest round here? Heard it for the first time the other day, thought it was pretty cool...

[Super Dude]

Oh my, we're gonna have fun with this one.

[Dark Master Of Sin]

I can appreaciate you sammmuk, and I agree that his vocals aren't as bad as some people believe. 

[tri.ad]

Thanks. Hope I've not annoyed anyone with that post, just felt like speaking up about it though really. On the topic of vocalists, what's people's general opinion on Kevin Moore's version of Space-Dye Vest round here? Heard it for the first time the other day, thought it was pretty cool...

The best description for the opinion on the song would be "divided".

[Perpetual Change]

I agree with the OP.  But I also think that James LaBrie is the vocalist.  Mike seems to be a little self-conscious about how James' voice sounds over heavy music, but I it sounds amazing.  If the band would give James a chance to shriek like he does in, say, Bucharest TGP, they would be fine and Mike wouldn't need to sing.

That said, I really like Mike's background vocals and I think the call & return in Constant Motion is fantastic.

[Dark Master Of Sin]

Call and return on TGP is epic IMO

[antigoon]

Blah blah blah blah blah

welcome

[PlaysLikeMyung]

Thanks. Hope I've not annoyed anyone with that post, just felt like speaking up about it though really. On the topic of vocalists, what's people's general opinion on Kevin Moore's version of Space-Dye Vest round here? Heard it for the first time the other day, thought it was pretty cool...

The best description for the opinion on the song would be "divided".

And something you should know about these boards:

Try not to bring up something Kevin Moore related in an unrelated thread...

[sammmuk]

Yeah, there's also that bit in In The Name Of God before the solo where JLB does some background shrieking, I think that could've made ANTR a lot more dynamic

[TAC]

Thanks. Hope I've not annoyed anyone with that post, just felt like speaking up about it though really. On the topic of vocalists, what's people's general opinion on Kevin Moore's version of Space-Dye Vest round here? Heard it for the first time the other day, thought it was pretty cool...

Welcome to DTF....

[Perpetual Change]

Thanks. Hope I've not annoyed anyone with that post, just felt like speaking up about it though really. On the topic of vocalists, what's people's general opinion on Kevin Moore's version of Space-Dye Vest round here? Heard it for the first time the other day, thought it was pretty cool...

My opinion of Kevin Moore's vocals is that they suck.

 

[LudwigVan]

Welcome to the forums!   I'm with you, I really like MP's vocal on ANTR.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Thanks. Hope I've not annoyed anyone with that post, just felt like speaking up about it though really. On the topic of vocalists, what's people's general opinion on Kevin Moore's version of Space-Dye Vest round here? Heard it for the first time the other day, thought it was pretty cool...

My opinion of Kevin Moore's vocals is that they suck.

 

But he had a microphone and some lyrics so what the fuck

[Perpetual Change]

Welcome to the forums!   I'm with you, I really like MP's vocal on ANTR.

I know. Sure, they sound a little bit silly.  But is there ONE DT fan out there who didn't feel compelled to start screaming along "Day after day..." at ANY DT show?

[bosk1]

I'm with you, I really like MP's vocal on ANTR.

Same here.  I take them on a case-by-case basis, but I haven't disliked any of Mike's vocals on any final version of a DT song so far.  ANTR is just about perfect (although the "rooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!" at the end feels very unnecessary to me).  Same with Constant Motion, The Glass Prison, The Shattered Fortress, etc.  Does that mean I'd like to see Mike take over more leads?  Dunno.  It all depends on how they sound.  As I said, I can't really think of any final version of songs I don't like.  But take the demos for TBOT Wither for example.  I much prefer James' vocals on those to the demos by Mike and JP.  James' voice was perfect for those. 

[ZBomber]

I like mike's vocals, excluding the ones on Black Clouds (INVENTORY ANALYSIS + ANTR). However, all the other songs he sings on, plus his demo of TBOT, are really great! I think he has a nice singing voice, but I'm not a fan of the growl thing.

[Martinman300]

You know what would be good? instead of mike going "ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR" at the end, he should do it like it is, but have Labrie come on at the end for a big LATM style YEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH......

So,

"...EVERYONE SURVIVED!" "YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.............."

[Zydar]

VERILYYYYYYYYYY!

[Super Dude]

 

[Samsara]

Hi everyone, after reading the forums for a while I decided to finally join, probably with a first post that will either get locked or make me look stupid, but anyway. Firstly, I have been a Dream Theater fan since Train of Thought came out in 2003 back when I was 12 years old and loved the heavy sound, of course, over time I've accumulated all of their albums, DVD's etc and have never had a problem with any of the music. I think all of the keyboardists and vocal moments have been great - which is what this message is about. I've noticed a lot of hate towards Mike's vocals in ANTR which I think is quite uncalled for, firstly everyone loves his drumming because it always suits the music perfectly, but when he does vocals which are the best sound to fit the music (Seriously, I don't think JLB could have made those  lines which are hardly poignant or thought provoking sound as good as MP) everyone suddenly starts making fun of it. I for one quite enjoy the vocals, I think it's a nice break from all of the (Perfect and good sounding, of course) harmonies and higher notes of the rest of the band's musical collection and the rest of BC&SL.
Furthermore, although this is a bit more of a stupid point to make, I think bashing his vocals on his bands forum is a bit harsh, I mean, it's not like he's never had trouble in the past, it's not like he wrote a whole 12 step suite about it, not that they're related, but come on I think this guy needs more credit than he got for these vocals and should be cut some slack. Sorry for the long / boring / probably already discussed post but I would like to discuss why you don't like his vocals, and if you do, show some appreciation for them. 

Welcome to the board.

If you've been observing, you should know the difference between "bashing" and giving an opinion. I think Mike's vocals in ANTR are horrid, and really is not something I enjoy listening to. I can deal with him singing a harmony with James to layer the vocal lines. But not a big fan of the whole "growl" thing. There comes a time where a band member's interests may take him/her away from the core "sound" of a band. That's cool, but that's what side projects are for.

Anyway, Mike has come a long way in his vocals, but i still don't really enjoy hearing him sing. And that's not bashing, that's just feedback from a fan. I don't go to a DT show or listen to a DT album to hear Mike's voice. I go to hear him play, and hear James sing (and everyone else play, of course). Backup vocals are fine, but highlighted spots of Mike doing lead (in whatever style) are just not needed, and not wanted, at least in my opinion.

[KevShmev]

There comes a time where a band member's interests may take him/her away from the core "sound" of a band. That's cool, but that's what side projects are for.

Okay, I am not overly wild about Portnoy's vocal section in ANTR (although I don't think it sucks as much as some do), but what does your comment even mean?  The band's core "sound"?  Last time I checked, Dream Theater considers themselves progressive metal, and part of being progressive is taking chances and doing things outside of the box.  See, that is the problem with most newer bands who call themselves progressive; they stick to their core sound and become convinced that long songs and odd time sigs are what make them prog, as opposed to taking chances and being, ya know, progressive!  DT may not have fully connected on that one, IMO, but at least they tried something different.  That, my friend, is being progressive.

[yeshaberto]

welcome, sir.  I enjoy his vocals periodically as well

[Mebert78]

Thanks. Hope I've not annoyed anyone with that post, just felt like speaking up about it though really. On the topic of vocalists, what's people's general opinion on Kevin Moore's version of Space-Dye Vest round here? Heard it for the first time the other day, thought it was pretty cool...

Welcome, sammmuk.  I'm one of the biggest Kevin Moore fans around, but I'm not crazy about his voice on SDV.  JLB's voice gives the song a much more polished sound IMO.  But I love Kevin's voice in Chroma Key and OSI. 

[sammmuk]

Wow, thanks for all the replies, you're all a lot more friendly than I imagined. One thing I wanna point out is that I wasn't trying to attack anyone who didn't like MP's vocals, just thought it'd be nice to show him a bit more respect. Also, I don't want him to take over lead vocals, but I DO think what he did really was the best option for their music

[hefdaddy42]

I dislike that section of ANTR, but it isn't just because of his vocals, and I don't disrespect Mike at all. 

[emindead]

Thanks. Hope I've not annoyed anyone with that post, just felt like speaking up about it though really. On the topic of vocalists, what's people's general opinion on Kevin Moore's version of Space-Dye Vest round here? Heard it for the first time the other day, thought it was pretty cool...

I don't care about it. It's a Demo. I won't go apeshit. The final result is what matters.

[Samsara]

There comes a time where a band member's interests may take him/her away from the core "sound" of a band. That's cool, but that's what side projects are for.

Okay, I am not overly wild about Portnoy's vocal section in ANTR (although I don't think it sucks as much as some do), but what does your comment even mean?  The band's core "sound"?  Last time I checked, Dream Theater considers themselves progressive metal, and part of being progressive is taking chances and doing things outside of the box.  See, that is the problem with most newer bands who call themselves progressive; they stick to their core sound and become convinced that long songs and odd time sigs are what make them prog, as opposed to taking chances and being, ya know, progressive!  DT may not have fully connected on that one, IMO, but at least they tried something different.  That, my friend, is being progressive.

My comment means what it says, thanks. And I disagree with you. All bands have an element of what they "sound like." when they veer too far off the path, you tend to lose people. Some bands (DT, Queensryche) have a wider "box" than others (Megadeth, Metallica). But at the end of the day, if you push the envelope too far, bands fall off a cliff. Not saying DT is at that point, but the whole growl vocal section is absolutely not something I wish to hear from Dream Theater.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Samsära, I vehemently disagree with you here.

Once a band takes their sound as far as they can take it, it's very important they change things up to keep me interested. Take Iron Maiden and Megadeth for example. Both established a reliable, wonderful style for themselves in the 80's and 90's. But it's 2010 now. You can only release so many albums operating under one style before you get boring. Both crossed that threshold years ago.

[sammmuk]

 but the whole growl vocal section is absolutely not something I wish to hear from Dream Theater.

Not saying you are, but you could be a minority, and if a majority of people like the growling, that means they've gone into the envelope rather than out, right?

[KevShmev]

U2 and Radiohead are two great examples of popular modern bands who radically changed their sound, and not only kept their popularity, but arguably got more popular.  Okay, they are more the exceptions than the rule, and I am not saying DT should do the same, but I see nothing wrong with doing a song or even a section in a song that strays quite a bit from their core sound.  The minute you start thinking, "Uh oh, this doesn't sound like what we normally do," you are in trouble.

As for growling or rough vocals not being want you wish to hear from DT, with all due respect, they are not in business to cater to a single fan.  You can't make everyone happy.  Heck, they have done quite a few things I haven't liked over the years, and, yes, I was quite vocal about it at times, but again, they are not in business to make me or anyone else but themselves happy.  Sure, we vent at times, but I think we all realize that the band does and should do what they want for themselves and nobody else.  

[sammmuk]

As for growling or rough vocals not being want you wish to hear from DT, with all due respect, they are not in business to cater to a single fan.  You can't make everyone happy.  Heck, they have done quite a few things I haven't liked over the years, and, yes, I was quite vocal about it at times, but again, they are not in business to make me or anyone else but themselves happy.  Sure, we vent at times, but I think we all realize that the band does and should do what they want for themselves and nobody else.  

That's EXACTLY what I was trying to say

[j]

I've found myself agreeing with the vast majority of your posts on DT lately Samsara, but here I gotta go with Kev and TOX.  I don't love every piece of music DT puts out and I often say so, but at no point have I ever come close to thinking "man, they are really straying too far from their sound, I wish they'd stop experimenting."  Quite the opposite lately, actually.

-J