M3 Rock Festival - 80's Hard Rock Fans Rejoice!

[jingle.boy]

Is Bach fronting for Skid Row?  Last years lineup looked better.  This still looks pretty damn good (at least for us fogeys ... and Blob I'm sure is jealous).

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Nope.  Johnny Solinger.  Bach was there last year, as you saw, and he sounded amazing.  How he's managed to continue to sound as good as he does, I don't know.  Last time I saw Dokken, a few years ago, Don didn't even bother reaching for the big notes.

[jingle.boy]

For years, he did a lot of professional theatre stuff here in southern Ontario at the Shaw Festival.  Local and well-renowned Shakespearean-like musical shows.  Plus all the Broadway stuff he did... keeps the voice in top form.

[Jaq]

Holy shit what a bill.

I'd just go to see Loudness, but geez what a bill!

[bosk1]

NBach was there last year, as you saw, and he sounded amazing.  How he's managed to continue to sound as good as he does, I don't know. 

I haven't followed closely, but from what I understand, the answer is simply that he takes care of his voice.  He is smart enough to know that his voice is his money-maker, so he's done well to take care of himself.  I know for quite awhile, he has been doing a lot of other things on the side as well that require him to keep his voice in proper shape.  I know he was doing some broadway musical type stuff, and I think he has been doing radio and/or tv ads as well.


As far as the bands on that bill, does anyone feel that there is anything wrong with the lineup?  I mean, in terms of bands that look like they don't below, or feel like they are too high up or too low on the bill?  I'm not suggesting that there is a problem.  Just curious as to whether anyone here sees anything...odd.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

That's really surprising, because you just kinda expect guys from that era to party it up and not take care of themselves.  I know he had alcohol problems for a while (I think it was alcohol), so it's nice to see that he's taken good care of himself, vocally.

Not sure about the bands low on the bill thing.  The good thing about this gig is that it's two stages.  A big main stage with video screens, where the seating and main lawn area are, then behind that, there's another, somewhat smaller stage.  What happens is while one band is playing, tear down and setup is going on on the other stage, back and forth, so that there's always a band playing with little to no overlap.  I'm assuming Queensryche will be the final act on Saturday, preceded by Cinderella and Ratt.  Cinderella was there 2 years ago and stole the show, IMO.

[bosk1]

It looks to me like Queensryche is third on the bill, below Cinderella and Ratt.  And, honestly, I think that's right where they should be.  A few Queensryche fans are up in arms about them even playing on the bill in the first place, which I don't really get.  That's why I was asking.  For example, from another board:

As a fan I am embarrassed they are even playing a festival with the likes of those bands mentioned.  Pure cash grab.

Otherwise I wouldn't run the site or this forum. The point in talking about Queensryche these days isn't to just take random, blatant shots. It's about getting the message out there that what the Tates are doing is downright idiotic and burying the band's legacy.

Are our comments being heard? I know they are. I can tell you without doubt that labels, potential management teams, peers of the band and some of the band members themselve all read this forum religiously.

Will that lead to change? That's the question and one that has no easy answer. But the drum keeps beating. WE, the fans that can see the forest from the trees and see what the Tates are doing (and what the other band members to their shame aren't doing).

And the drum will keep beating as long as the situation is still there. "Queensryche" is bigger than just a business for four guys (at this point) to make money on. We all know that, otherwise we wouldn't be here as fans.

Personally, that doesn't make much sense to me.  My take on it:

Personally, I have almost zero problem with this.  There is more than enough to criticize QR management and band leadership about, but to me, this isn't it. 

As far as playing under Cinderella and Ratt:  Yeah, it's kinda sad.  But as far as where the band is now in their career, they simply aren't as big a draw as either of those bands.  At least, that's what the promoters feel.  And I can't disagree when I look at their sales numbers and the size venues they are playing.  We can talk all day about how they shouldn't even be in this position, and that's all completely legitimate to gripe about.  I have the same gripe, and I think anyone who truly appreciates the band's legacy should look back on the past and be upset that the band let his happen.  But in terms of booking gigs here in the now, the reality is that they are probably billed as high as they deserve to be.

As far as playing on this bill with these bands at all:  Again, this is a situation QR put themselves in.  They haven't truly been "the thinking man's band" in a LONG time.  But aside from that, I still don't really have any major heartburn over them being on this bill.  There was a time when you could separate QR from "hair metal."  But the reality is, in this day and age, most '80s metal gets lumped together, and that's just the way things are.  Most fans don't even really draw much of a distinction anymore.  Take bands like Tesla, for example.  They were always basically a straightforward hard-rock band.  Yet they were lumped together with the glammers.  They've played with most of the bands on this bill.  Take bands like Iron Maiden and Judas Priest.  Clearly not "hair metal."  But they also have played on bills with most of these bands.  And I could go on and on.  Point is, there is a huge overlap in the fan bases, and there really isn't a good reason that I personally can see why all the above bands shouldn't tour together under the more broad banner of '80s rock.  And whether we like it or not, that's precisely what they have done and will continue to do until rockers from that era just aren't able to do it anymore at all. 

Bottom line is, it's a decent gig that gets them in front of a lot of fans.  I can understand the complaints.  But in this fan's opinion, I see nothing much to complain about.  These is certainly a much, MUCH more respectable gig than the cabaret.  Honestly, QR being on this bill and other similar ones almost seems like a no-brainer to me in this day and age.  I can think of a pretty good list of things to criticize the band and management for in recent memory, but this ain't it.

Personally, I don't get why some might feel that an '80s "hair metal" festival is somehow "beneath" Queensryche.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Interesting.  To someone like me who's kind of a casual fan, anybody complaining about them playing on a hair band bill comes off slightly elitist/snotty, but that's only based on what you've indicated above.  Maybe I'm wrong.  The M3 forum is split on it.  I read that they were supposed to be the headliner, but it got leaked somehow and then they were switched with Cinderella, others say QR is still listed first on the M3 Facebook page, so it's difficult to say.  I know 2 years ago, they posted set times, prior to the gig, but I can't remember if they did last year.  I'll keep an eye out to see what happens.

[bosk1]

To someone like me who's kind of a casual fan, anybody complaining about them playing on a hair band bill comes off slightly elitist/snotty, but that's only based on what you've indicated above. 

Yeah, I pretty much agree.  But, whatever.  Different strokes... 

[jjrock88]

I really don't see anything wrong with QR playing on the same bill as Ratt/Cinderella.  I'm a fan of all those bands and I think this caters to people, like myself, who are fans of old school rock/metal.  If QR was playing with Nickelback or a Lincoln Bizkit type band, I could understand the outrage.  But Ratt/Cinderella, while their sound may differ from QR, are from the same era and generally have simular fans.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

I can't argue with any of that.

[Samsara]

Since bosk decided to bring the conversation over here. Here is my two cents:

What is odd is -- this is a festival of hair bands. Queensryche is NOT a hairband. yes, they've (through management) thrown their lot in to make money. But anyone who knows anything about rock and metal history, isn't calling QR a hairband.

I don't think Queensryche should be playing a festival like this. I don't see Dream Theater, Fates Warning, Rush, or any of those playing these. I think QR and DT co-headlined M3 a few years back (could be wrong), but while mostly hairband-ish, the fact the two were together sorta gave the thing a pass.

But I think most Dream Theater fans would be like "WTF is up with this, DT on a hairband festival?" Same goes for fans of Rush or Fates Warning, etc.

That was the overall point being made.

As my wife pointed out to bosk1, to which he couldn't disagree, Queensryche's management led them down this path, and now instead of trying to push forward, she's thrown their lot in with the hair metal stigma. What they SHOULD be doing is fighting their way out again. But they aren't.

Anyway, as I said at BdR, and as I'll say here...Queensryche should NOT be playing this festival. And I think if Dream Theater was doing this, instead of Queensryche, 99.9 percent of Dream Theater fans would be happy to see them play, but questioning just what the hell was going on. Because yes, the festival IS below them.

Call that view "snotty" all you want Cozmo, but had the band been Dream Theater, everyone knows the majority of DT fans would think the same thing.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

So let's see here, who all in the 4 years M3 has been going are not hair bands (IMO)?

Extreme
Gilby Clarke
Slamm
Scorpions
ZO2
Big Noize
Hurtsmile
Night Ranger
Queensryche
Drumwars
Streetlight Circus

Queensryche is not the only band to have played M3 that didn't necessarily fit the overall spirit of the bill.  To say they should NOT be playing the festival, eh, whatever.  That's your $0.02.  I'm looking forward to seeing them again.  It sounds like a lot of fans are disappointed with them nowadays, but I have no doubt they'll put on a good show.  Quotes like this:

As a fan I am embarrassed they are even playing a festival with the likes of those bands mentioned.  Pure cash grab.

are snotty, whether anybody wants to admit it or not.  What I read there is "My intelligent-prog band is above playing with the kind of neanderthal rock bands that are on this bill.  They should be ashamed of themselves."  Cash grab.  So what?  They gotta put dinner on the table just like everybody else.

I get that people don't think they fit the bill, but at the end of the day, why does it matter?  It will be a great show and Queensryche will be one of many excellent bands in a day filled with excellent music.  How can anybody argue with that?

[jjrock88]

So let's see here, who all in the 4 years M3 has been going are not hair bands (IMO)?

Extreme
Gilby Clarke
Slamm
Scorpions
ZO2
Big Noize
Hurtsmile
Night Ranger
Queensryche
Drumwars
Streetlight Circus

Queensryche is not the only band to have played M3 that didn't necessarily fit the overall spirit of the bill.  To say they should NOT be playing the festival, eh, whatever.  That's your $0.02.  I'm looking forward to seeing them again.  It sounds like a lot of fans are disappointed with them nowadays, but I have no doubt they'll put on a good show.  Quotes like this:

As a fan I am embarrassed they are even playing a festival with the likes of those bands mentioned.  Pure cash grab.

are snotty, whether anybody wants to admit it or not.  What I read there is "My intelligent-prog band is above playing with the kind of neanderthal rock bands that are on this bill.  They should be ashamed of themselves."  Cash grab.  So what?  They gotta put dinner on the table just like everybody else.

I get that people don't think they fit the bill, but at the end of the day, why does it matter?  It will be a great show and Queensryche will be one of many excellent bands in a day filled with excellent music.  How can anybody argue with that?

well put

[Dittomist]

Wow! What an incredible line-up! I really wish Baltimore wasn't so far away. Compared to the Cabaret and Dedicated to Chaos, I think this is an OK move for Queensryche. Who knows--maybe Geoff will listen to Cinderella (one of the most underrated bands ever in my opinion), Stryper (I don't care for their Christian messages, but they are truly unbelievable musicians, and are still amazing live), and Skid Row (their first three albums are masterpieces), and feel inspired to make another metal album!

[bosk1]

Yeah, pretty much everything Cozmo said.  Queensryche has a decades-long history of playing with a lot of these same bands and others just like them.  There shouldn't be any "stigma" attached.  It's a festival for fans of all those bands that the fans will enjoy.  And I'm sure a lot of those fans who lost their warm and fuzzy feeling for Queensryche long ago will hear songs like Eyes of a Stranger, Silent Lucity, and Jet City Woman and say, "Oh, yeah.  I forgot why I liked this guys.  They've got some pretty good stuff."  Any sane band manager who doesn't take advantage of an opportunity like that is missing out on a good promotion opportunity (something, IMO, Queensryche is desperately in need of given a lot of negative promotion in recent years).

I fully get where fans like Samsara are coming from.  They love what the band once stood for and want to see the band and management be proactive about doing things that will earn the band legitimate respect and restore that proud legacy Queensryche once had as "the thinking man's band."  That's all well and good, and comes from a good place, but as fans, I think we are better served by accepting that that ship has sailed.  This festival shouldn't hurt their image and, IMO, it doesn't.  As long as it isn't hurting their image and it gets them in front of a lot of fans, that's pretty much what they should be doing.

[Jaq]

What's pretty amusing to me is that this is a festival that is booking 80s metal bands. And the gut reaction of people to this is "but X band ISN'T a hair metal band!"

Okay, Queensryche isn't.

Here's the thing.

Back in the 80s? So called "thinking man's metal" and hair bands toured together ALL THE DAMN TIME. Queensyrche opened for Def Leppard. They also toured with Guns N Roses and Metallica. Quiet Riot opened for Iron Maiden. Accept toured with Kiss.  White Lion opened for AC/DC and Aerosmith. The notion that subgenres of metal didn't tour together didn't exist back then. Queenryche was just as likely to tour with a hair band as they were with a thrash metal band.

This festival is actually closer to how bands toured together in the 1980s than most people think.

[bosk1]

Yeah, again, they've toured, done projects with, and/or played festivals with those kinds of bands since day 1 (Def Leppard, Kiss, Dokken, Bon Jovi, Black N Blue, etc., etc., etc.).  I submit for your consideration, Exhbit A.  And if anyone wants to say, "well, but that was the '80s--they shouldn't be doing that now," they took Don Dokken out as their opening act just a few years ago. 

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

I'll suggest that if this turns into a pissing match like it did over on BDR, that the discussion be taken here:

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=263.0

[jingle.boy]

Maybe people should look at it this way... instead of it being a predominantly 'hair metal' bill, it's mostly bands who's most popular days are behind them.  Almost all "glam" or "hair" metal bands (who's collective popularity spiked in the late 80s) fit that bill.  So too (unfortunately) does QR.  The good news is that these kinds of bands appeal to a pretty good demographic - 40+ year olds (predominantly male) that have money to spend.

Samsara bringing some fleeting comparison to Rush or DT is ludicrous.  Both of those are still attracting and appealing to a wide audience.

[CrimsonE]

What was even weirder than QR playing M3 was a festival that they were scheduled to play in the Des Moines area.  I forgot the name of the festival, but here were some of the other bands:

Avenged Sevenfold
Stone Sour
Saliva
Three Days Grace
Seether
Bullet for my Valentine.

Unfortunately, QR had some travel issues and couldn't make it in time (although they played a free gig at a local club later that night). 

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Heading out this afternoon.  Jeff LaBar from Cinderella is receiving treatment for an unspecified medical condition, so Cinderella won't be appearing, but they've added LA Guns and Great White.  It's going to be an excellent show.  I'll be live tweeting throughout (as long as my battery doesn't die).  For anybody who wants to follow along, it's https://www.twitter.com/guitarcozmo.  Oddly, it appears that Ratt IS the headliner.  Bands and set times are as follows:

[jingle.boy]

Sweet lookin lineup.  Who's fronting Skid Row these days?  I guess the same should be asked about Warrant   

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Johnny Solinger is fronting Skid Row.  Robert Mason, previously of Lynch Mob, is fronting Warrant.  I heard him last year and he sounded amazingly like Jani Lane.  Granted it was live and loud, but still.

[bosk1]

Not bad.  To me, the lineup looks more consistent than past years in terms of more quality bands.  But there seem to be fewer bands that make me say "WOW!" on the list this year.

EDIT:  And I think Mason is a very good singer.  He seems to have a pretty adaptable voice, where if he is singing someone else's material, he can sound enough like the other singer to sell it, while still maintaining enough of his own style to maintain his credibility.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

I chuckled a little when I saw that Queensryche got second bill to Ratt. 

[bosk1]

Me too.  ...but only because they should probably be lower on the bill. 

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

I saw some item recently about Tate blowing up at band members in Brazil and assaulting a couple of them.  Heard anything about it?

[Lowdz]

When QR played in the UK on the Promised Land tour their support was Lynch Mob so at that time they were happy to be associated with "hair metal" (awful term btw- and not one used in these parts until recently) bands.
George Lynch came out and stood in front of me for the first few songs of QR's set though he can't have been too impressed as he soon left. Or was that because of GT's leather shorts?

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

  Tough to say.  George Lynch is a fucking monster.  Love his style.

Saw Dokken a few years ago and Don was not even trying for the big notes.  I'm hoping that's changed and that maybe he was just really tired that night.

[bosk1]

I saw some item recently about Tate blowing up at band members in Brazil and assaulting a couple of them.  Heard anything about it?

Not sure.  I have lost interest in following them.  And since respectfully saying you don't see anything wrong with them being on the M3 bill can get you banned from some sites that provide Queensryche news, I don't get the up-to-the-minute QR updates I once did. 

George Lynch came out and stood in front of me for the first few songs of QR's set

So, what you're saying is, you had a clear, unobstructed view of the stage? 

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

I don't get it, is Lynch short?  As much as I love his stuff, I've never gotten to actually see HIM live.

[bosk1]

I don't get it, is Lynch short? 

Yes.  Very much so.

[Lowdz]

I don't get it, is Lynch short? 

Yes.  Very much so.

I certainly didn't need to ask him to move...

[jingle.boy]

Not sure.  I have lost interest in following them.  And since respectfully saying you don't see anything wrong with them being on the M3 bill can get you banned from some sites that provide Queensryche news, I don't get the up-to-the-minute QR updates I once did. 

That was a perm ban Sams gave you?  Weak.