Author Topic: DT album rankings by Amazon  (Read 6514 times)

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Offline Perpetual Change

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DT album rankings by Amazon
« on: February 06, 2010, 08:10:39 PM »
So I'm bored and blizzarded in, so I figured out what the Dream Theater albums were rated based on user reviews at Amazon.

Scenes from a Memory 4.6/5 stars (672)
Awake 4.6/5 (217)
Images and Words 4.5/5 stars (341)
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence 4.3/5 stars (390)
Systematic Chaos 4.3/5 stars (119)
Falling into Infinity 4.1/5 (172)
When Dream and Day Unite 4.1/5 (58)
Black Clouds 4.0/5 stars (156)
Octavarium 3.9/5 stars (401)
Train of Thought 3.6/5.0 (800)


And as a special bonus, live DT

Live at the Marquee 4.7/5 (26)
Score 4.6/6 (36)
Live Scenes 4.5/5 (68)
Live at Budokan 4.5/5 (32)
Once in a Livetime 4.2/5 (60)
Chaos in Motion 3.4/5 (30)

Discuss.

Offline LTE

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Re: DT album rankings by Amazon
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2010, 08:25:43 PM »
Pretty good for the most part.
But TOT last? I would expect that higher.
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Offline Dark Master Of Sin

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Re: DT album rankings by Amazon
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2010, 08:31:57 PM »
So I'm bored and blizzarded in, so I figured out what the Dream Theater albums were rated based on user reviews at Amazon.

Scenes from a Memory 4.6/5 stars (672)
Awake 4.6/5 (217)
Images and Words 4.5/5 stars (341)
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence 4.3/5 stars (390)
Systematic Chaos 4.3/5 stars (119)
Falling into Infinity 4.1/5 (172)
When Dream and Day Unite 4.1/5 (58)
Black Clouds 4.0/5 stars (156)
Octavarium 3.9/5 stars (401)
Train of Thought 3.6/5.0 (800)


wut, and why does ToT have 800 votes, with only 3.6 rating?
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Offline LCArenas

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Re: DT album rankings by Amazon
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2010, 08:32:43 PM »
Falling into Infinity is higher than Octavarium??
Falling into Infinity is higher than Train of Thought??
Falling into Infinity is higher than BC&SL??

Falling into Infinity shouldn't be over those ones :facepalm:

Putting that aside, it's OK.

Offline PlaysLikeMyung

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Re: DT album rankings by Amazon
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2010, 08:35:37 PM »
Falling into Infinity is higher than Octavarium??
Falling into Infinity is higher than Train of Thought??
Falling into Infinity is higher than BC&SL??

Falling into Infinity shouldn't be over those ones :facepalm:

Putting that aside, it's OK.

FII should at least be over ToT. It's about tied with BCSL for me though (I have a very high opinion of FII)

Offline AwakeFromOctavarium

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Re: DT album rankings by Amazon
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2010, 08:39:08 PM »
Switch Awake and Scenes,
Switch BCSL and SC,
Switch ToT and WDADU,

There you go.  :metal
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Offline Dark Master Of Sin

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Re: DT album rankings by Amazon
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2010, 08:40:51 PM »
Switch BCSL and SC,
Switch ToT and WDADU,

There you go.  :metal
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Offline LCArenas

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Re: DT album rankings by Amazon
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2010, 08:46:39 PM »
Switch Awake and Scenes,
Switch BCSL and SC,
Switch ToT and WDADU,

There you go.  :metal


This. I'd put Octavarium higher, though.

Offline LudwigVan

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Re: DT album rankings by Amazon
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2010, 09:18:14 PM »
So I'm bored and blizzarded in, so I figured out what the Dream Theater albums were rated based on user reviews at Amazon.

Scenes from a Memory 4.6/5 stars (672)
Awake 4.6/5 (217)
Images and Words 4.5/5 stars (341)
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence 4.3/5 stars (390)
Systematic Chaos 4.3/5 stars (119)
Falling into Infinity 4.1/5 (172)
When Dream and Day Unite 4.1/5 (58)
Black Clouds 4.0/5 stars (156)
Octavarium 3.9/5 stars (401)
Train of Thought 3.6/5.0 (800)


wut, and why does ToT have 800 votes, with only 3.6 rating?

ToT had so many votes/reviews because it was the most controversial album DT has made.  It just evoked a very strong response from the fanbase... I remember there was a quite a bit of hate for the album when it first came out. 
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Offline Jamesman42

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Re: DT album rankings by Amazon
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2010, 09:21:28 PM »
Everything makes sense, for the most part, except that IaW isn't the top spot. That is the quintessential DT album, and I would think that nonmembers of this forum would hold the same general opinion.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: DT album rankings by Amazon
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2010, 09:28:34 PM »
Not as weird a ranking as I'd expect for a completely non-DT related site, although it means nothing to me.
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Offline Mladen

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Re: DT album rankings by Amazon
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2010, 04:04:10 AM »
I'm so glad SC is 5th.  :metal

Offline tri.ad

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Re: DT album rankings by Amazon
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2010, 04:06:39 AM »
I don't really take the ratings on Amazon seriously, since only a small share of them are really reasonable and contain sensible reviews. Many of those ratings add up due to fanboys who mark a review "unhelpful" when the verdict is less than 5 stars.

The rankings on RYM.com are quite a bit better, although the trend that "it's cool to hate DT and rate every album 0.5 stars" is present there as well, so it should also be taken with a grain of salt.
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Offline Xanthul

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Re: DT album rankings by Amazon
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2010, 05:25:29 AM »
Regardless of minor changes I would do on that ranking, WDADU so high and ToT so low really look out of place.

Offline Rafael Guerra

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Re: DT album rankings by Amazon
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2010, 10:35:51 AM »
Poor TOT...
I think the four top positions are acceptable, those are some of my favorite albums (although not in that order).
But from the 5th-down, its all a media manipulated mess with the heavy metal in the bottom.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: DT album rankings by Amazon
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2010, 10:39:07 AM »
Given the limited number of reviews for it, maybe this just demonstrates that those of us who actually take the time to listen to When Dream and Day Unite realize how good it is.  Maybe? :p :biggrin:

And, yeah, there was a major backlash when Train of Thought first came out (many loved it, and just as many disliked it), so I am sure a lot of those reviews are from fans who reviewed it right after it came out.

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: DT album rankings by Amazon
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2010, 12:20:27 PM »
The songwriting is hardly what holds When Dream and Day Unite back.  Only A Matter of Time is a pretty big songwriting fumble (at least the vocal department) and I don't like A Fortune in Lies, but there's some gems there.  Status Seeker and The Killing Hand immediately come to mind.

That's it, I really enjoy When Dream and Day Reunite quite a bit.

Offline Nick

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Re: DT album rankings by Amazon
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2010, 01:19:38 PM »
I, for one, love the vocals of Only a Matter of Time, at least with Charlie doing them.

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Offline juice

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Re: DT album rankings by Amazon
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2010, 01:46:35 PM »
the bottom 3 albums surprised me on that list  :o

Offline Dcrupi

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Re: DT album rankings by Amazon
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2010, 02:53:22 PM »
Not as weird a ranking as I'd expect for a completely non-DT related site, although it means nothing to me.

This basically.  I was expecting far worse, but they appear to have done a decent job...obviously there are things I would switch (8vm much higher and SC at the bottom), but essentially that's not too bad. 

Especially the live albums, I think that's probably exactly the order in which I would rank them.

Offline j

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Re: DT album rankings by Amazon
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2010, 11:31:27 PM »
Systematic Chaos is the only one that's WAY off, IMO.  The rest are within a couple spots of where they belong, for the most part.

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Offline EstyMaJ

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Re: DT album rankings by Amazon
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2010, 08:12:45 AM »
Ok heres my 2 cents on my personal album ranks

Scenes from a Memory
Images and Words
Awake
Black Clouds
Falling into Infinity
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
Train of Thought
Systematic Chaos
Octavarium
When Dream and Day Unite
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 08:58:01 AM by EstyMaJ »

Offline Samsara

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Re: DT album rankings by Amazon
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2010, 09:25:34 AM »
So I'm bored and blizzarded in, so I figured out what the Dream Theater albums were rated based on user reviews at Amazon.

Scenes from a Memory 4.6/5 stars (672)
Awake 4.6/5 (217)
Images and Words 4.5/5 stars (341)
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence 4.3/5 stars (390)
Systematic Chaos 4.3/5 stars (119)
Falling into Infinity 4.1/5 (172)
When Dream and Day Unite 4.1/5 (58)
Black Clouds 4.0/5 stars (156)
Octavarium 3.9/5 stars (401)
Train of Thought 3.6/5.0 (800)


And as a special bonus, live DT

Live at the Marquee 4.7/5 (26)
Score 4.6/6 (36)
Live Scenes 4.5/5 (68)
Live at Budokan 4.5/5 (32)
Once in a Livetime 4.2/5 (60)
Chaos in Motion 3.4/5 (30)

Discuss.


Amazon reviewer rankings is fairer than most. I say that because folks that post on this board are balanced out by just regular fans. I don't necessarily agree with all those rankings, but as a snapshot of the fan base as a whole that's probably the most accurate you can get.

My personal rankings are as follows (not counting ACOS, since it is one song and some covers - ACOS is one of my top-10 favorite DT songs.):

Awake
Images and Words
Falling into Infinity
Six Degrees
SFAM
Train of Thought
Octavarium
Systematic Chaos
Black Clouds

>>>>>I leave out WDADU, because I am of the belief that a singer completes a band, and when you have a different one, their personality changes what the band "is." So I leave WDADU out, to be consistent. I also didn't rank the live albums. Suffice it to say, I like the quality of the newer stuff, but I prefer the older songs, so most of the live stuff is fairly unimpressive to me as a whole. I'd be more of a fan of DT releasing a live DVD of them performing I&W or Awake in its entirety (or both as one set), with the current lineup and production quality.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: DT album rankings by Amazon
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2010, 11:26:53 AM »
Okay, I'll play and do my personal rankings as well.  Preliminarily, I don't dislike any DT album, so even the albums that are ranked near the bottom are albums I would consider good or even great.  I won't separately rank the live offerings, since they are just so varied in terms of format and what they offer that it is difficult to compare some of them meaningfully.

1.  Six Degrees - The title song is among my favorite songs of all time.  And looking through the rest of the tracks, the only low point for me personally is Blind Faith.  Otherwise, I love every song.
2.  SFAM - The sum is definitely greater than the parts.  This album was both the rebirth of DT and of my fandom of the band.
3.  Images & Words - The album that really got it started for the band and for a lot of fans.  There are some absolute classics on this album.  A couple of songs have never really clicked for me, or this one might be ranked higher.
4.  Octavarium - Although it has a few low points, the album is consistently good from start to finish and concludes with one of the top 3 songs in their catalog by most fans' standards.  While not a traditional "concept album," the album theme in all of its various incarnations takes the album to another level.  If I&W wasn't such a classic album, this could easily be #3.
5.  Black Clouds - The only weak point on this album is TBOT (which is a very good song, but just doesn't speak to me on a personal level) and perhaps the lyrics (which aren't bad by any stretch, but aren't as deep and meaty as on some of their previous efforts since they are largely narrative).
6.  Awake - Chock full of even more classics.  But some weak points as well, in terms of a few weaker songs, and in terms of sonics (such as Kevin Moore's odd choices in keyboard patches, and the overall sonic quality of the album, which just sounds a bit jarring the first few times you listen).
7.  Falling Into Infinity - This album took me a long time to get into, but has some really solid tracks.  Most of the decisions between demos and final were good, but a few left the album lacking (the final version of TAMP; not including Raise the Knife).
8.  Train of Thought - For DT, it felt a bit one-dimensional, and can leave the listener feeling exhausted by the time it is over.  Also a few moments that detract from greatness, such as the "Blackened" part of TDS and the instrumental section in ES.  But still a solid effort that is a great part of the DT legacy.
9.  Systematic Chaos - A good album, but very inconsistent.  ITPOE1, Forsaken, and Costant Motion are hands-down some of the best things the band has ever written.  Other tracks really drag the album down for me, such as Prophets of War (which I really do not like at all), TMOLS (which just feels too "by the numbers" and has an instrumental section that doesn't fit and detracts from the rest of the song, and Repentence (which is a really good song, but is far too one-dimensional for how long it is.  ...or is far too long for how one-dimensional it is.  Either way).  A solid effort, but I only really regularly want to listen to about half the album.
10.  WDADU - Some really, really good ideas.  Some things worked.  Some didn't.  I like Charlie hearing him do his own material.  A lot of DT's material simply isn't written to his strengths and doesn't sound right.  Add the production issues and a few issues that really showed that the band was experimenting and just going for it, and the album loses some points.  Granted, some of that experimental "forget about the rules" vibe also adds points.  But this is easily for me the lowest point in the catalog, even though I would still call it a "good" album.
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Offline Samsara

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Re: DT album rankings by Amazon
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2010, 11:37:23 AM »
Putting Black Clouds ahead of Awake has me questioning your sanity. That said, I'm sure the entire board thinks the same about me putting FII above everything I did. LOL.
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Offline Scurvy!Dreams

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Re: DT album rankings by Amazon
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2010, 11:37:49 AM »
How does every other thread turn into a "my personal rankings"-off??? Any time something vaguely tangential appears, someone has to list their favourite albums, and then everyone else feels obliged to do their own.

You just ranked the albums yesterday. Why can't you just discuss the actual topic?

Offline Samsara

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Re: DT album rankings by Amazon
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2010, 12:00:53 PM »
If you don't like a thread, don't post in it, Scurvy. No one is holding a gun to your head. If you don't have anything that contributes to a thread, simply don't post in it.  :)

Saves you the time of posting, saves us the time of reading it.
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Offline Scurvy!Dreams

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Re: DT album rankings by Amazon
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2010, 04:48:59 PM »
I liked the original post and wanted to contribute to the discussion. But then I saw that it quickly degenerated into "OMG I haven't ranked anything for 12 hours, better start ordering albums." Then I had about a minute before I had to leave for work, so I decided to use that minute to complain rather than discuss, as any reasonable person would.

Comparing the rankings of Amazon users versus the board as a whole is pretty interesting. Comparing on an individual level is irrelevant, boring and narcissistic.


Why does Train of Thought have so many reviews compared to other albums?? It being a relatively "controversial" album only accounts for some of it. Was there a special promotion with amazon when the album came out, did the album get a huge number of pre-orders for some reason?
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 04:54:42 PM by Scurvy!Dreams »

Offline Samsara

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Re: DT album rankings by Amazon
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2010, 05:07:35 PM »
Then just reply to the original topic and don't be a jerk to everyone else. Notice even the admin made a list. If there is a part of something you don't want to do, then simply don't do it. You don't need to spoil everyone else's enjoyment because someone pissed in your Cheerios on a certain topic.

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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: DT album rankings by Amazon
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2010, 05:13:26 PM »
I think I'd put Black Clouds above Awake, too, at least at this point.

How you can put Black Clouds below Systematic Chaos is, to me, the more important question

Offline Scurvy!Dreams

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Re: DT album rankings by Amazon
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2010, 09:34:55 PM »
.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 11:14:52 PM by Scurvy!Dreams »

Offline KevShmev

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Re: DT album rankings by Amazon
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2010, 09:37:39 PM »
How you can put anything below Systematic Chaos is, to me, the more important question

That's more like it.  As more time goes on, the more I realize that that is their least best album by a pretty wide margin.  Even some of the albums I consider less-than-stellar efforts, like OV and ToT, crush SC like a grape.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 09:55:55 PM by KevShmev »

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: DT album rankings by Amazon
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2010, 09:52:16 PM »
I'm pretty much stopped apologizing for Systematic Chaos as soon as Black Clouds came out and I realized Dream Theater weren't coming to an end.

Offline contest_sanity

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Re: DT album rankings by Amazon
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2010, 10:43:20 PM »

Why does Train of Thought have so many reviews compared to other albums?? It being a relatively "controversial" album only accounts for some of it. Was there a special promotion with amazon when the album came out, did the album get a huge number of pre-orders for some reason?


If you read through all those reviews, which I did at one point, you'll find that many people posted the same 'reviews' multiple times to get the scores to go up or down. Usually they were negative and not reviews at all, just like an "it blows" or something to that effect.  There was some positive spamming as well, though.  My favorite comment came from the guy who now holds the 'most helpful' review title for ToT:

"My bemused friends. This is the 516th review of this album and of the previous 515 reviews none are truly helpful."  And then there were 284 after that.