Complaining about Queensryche

[energythief]

After watching these two 30 second clips (Lady Jane and The Thin Line) I'm done. First has a ballerina dancer, the second has uh...sluts. With a fan that is on stage with them, "hording" the whores.

30 second YouTube clip of them doing Lady Jane last night... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqteOg3rFDE

and The Thin Line: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkuj4Kr7j7w

I'm done.

What the hell. The ballerina bit was ridiculous. And yeah, "The Thin Line" is about sex, but the ladies on stage were just standing there, not doing anything. WTF?

[Dr. SeaWolf]

Sad that a once great band has gone downhill so much. I actually bought American Soldier and listened to it to support them, but now when I think about it I should have bought one of their better albums from their heydays like Promised Land or Operation Mindcrime part 1, this Cabaret thing is just so unbelivebly bad that I dont know what to say. I was thinking of expanding my discography with them by buying the records with DeGarmo still in the band from The Warning to Hear in the Now Frontier, but now I dont know if I should support the Tate's by doing that...but if DeGarmo gets money of it I think I should.

I think Tate and Co. still deserve money for the earlier masterpieces.  They're still great albums, no matter how crappy the band is now.

[TAC]

Agreed. There are plenty of bands who've out-lived their importance, only to make mockeries of their former existence.  This is one reason why artists who die young like Jimi Hendrix and Kurt Cobain can retain that 'mythic' status... they never get the opportunity to ruin it. 

LV, you know..you hit the nail on the head. Very true indeed.

[skydivingninja]

Empire and Mindcrime are awesome.  Rage For Order is okay, American Soldier was pretty bad.  This caberet thing...Samsara and Bosk, I am so sorry.  I feel like I should have seen them when they were going through Asheville last year, if only to see "Anybody Listening?"

[TheVoxyn]

I'm not even a fan of Queensryche and I find it sad to see the band that brought me O:M do stuff like this...

[fivestring]

I'm not even going to bother to look at these awful links.  This band has no credibility left. Such a shame.

O:M got me into this band. I was floored by this record. Mind=blown.  Empire was amazing - so many good songs! The Promised Land wasn't Empire, and I really didn't get into that much. I give it a listen now and then and it's not bad by any means, just wasn't what I expected. Hear in the Now Frontier has some great songs/songwriting on it. It's got sounds and a style that is much different, but at least more than half that record is enjoyable.  Chris DeGarmo leaves and we get Q2k. Say what you want, but I fully enjoyed this album when it came out. I thought Kelly Grey did a great job filling the spot.  Tribe was largely forgettable. It sounded like they were trying hard to adapt to a new sound/new music scene. Some ok songs, but meh.  O:M II should have never left the drawing board. FANS wanted this for a LONG time and they caved.  I bought it, and listened to it straight through on a 5 hour drive. I listened again on the way back. I thought "not really getting the point here..." Sounded too much like they were trying to be what they did a long time ago, and it sounds forced. I saw the tour where they did O:M and O:M II back to back. Upon seeing O:M II with some staging and extra actors - it dawned on me - this is a terrible album and completely unnecessary.  Then they go and do a covers album! (fer cryin' out loud - (see my rant in the Tesla thread)). I had mild interest in the new record, American Soldier, but after the lackluster reports/reviews here (and by Samsara ), I decided to quit looking to this band for any quality music.  They had their time and place, and good/great stuff I can go back to listen to. But, seriously, a f*#kin' cabaret???

[Dream Team]

Samsara, I know it must be very hard for you. I can only imagine how I'd feel if DT, Metallica, or Maiden sunk to this level.

That being said, move on and don't look back - they don't deserve your time or money.

[chknptpie]

Hope bringing up such an old topic is okay... but this show was here on Thursday and I'm so confused as to what the hell?! There were commercials for it on local TV too. Part of me wanted to go to just see what the heck, but the rest of me wonders why all the gimmicks?! Is this something a member of the band always wanted to do, did a manager have a screw go loose?

Has anyone gone to see it?

[El JoNNo]

You would think Geoff would work on his voice and not his biceps.

[Orbert]

Hope bringing up such an old topic is okay... but this show was here on Thursday and I'm so confused as to what the hell?! There were commercials for it on local TV too. Part of me wanted to go to just see what the heck, but the rest of me wonders why all the gimmicks?! Is this something a member of the band always wanted to do, did a manager have a screw go loose?

Has anyone gone to see it?

Those are all good questions.  I've never heard anything about who thought this up and why they think it's a good idea.

Also, I don't know anyone who's seen it, but then I don't live anywhere near there.

[bodiesinflight]

I never liked QR that much anyway but this is just...well, beyond awful 

[cygnusx1jg]

The main thing for me that changed for the worse after Promised Land was the quality of the production.  Empire and PL had good songs, but they also sounded great.  Everything since HITNF just sounds thin to me.

[Samsara]

Hope bringing up such an old topic is okay... but this show was here on Thursday and I'm so confused as to what the hell?! There were commercials for it on local TV too. Part of me wanted to go to just see what the heck, but the rest of me wonders why all the gimmicks?! Is this something a member of the band always wanted to do, did a manager have a screw go loose?

Has anyone gone to see it?

Those are all good questions.  I've never heard anything about who thought this up and why they think it's a good idea.

Also, I don't know anyone who's seen it, but then I don't live anywhere near there.

Here is why. Read my entire post. The cabaret is a gimmick, because gimmicks are how the current "manager" has to sell the band to promoters.

https://www.anybodylistening.net/breakdownroom/index.php?topic=1849.msg29029#msg29029

[Orbert]

Well that certainly makes sense.  It's also pretty damned sad.

[chknptpie]

Hope bringing up such an old topic is okay... but this show was here on Thursday and I'm so confused as to what the hell?! There were commercials for it on local TV too. Part of me wanted to go to just see what the heck, but the rest of me wonders why all the gimmicks?! Is this something a member of the band always wanted to do, did a manager have a screw go loose?

Has anyone gone to see it?

Those are all good questions.  I've never heard anything about who thought this up and why they think it's a good idea.

Also, I don't know anyone who's seen it, but then I don't live anywhere near there.

Here is why. Read my entire post. The cabaret is a gimmick, because gimmicks are how the current "manager" has to sell the band to promoters.

https://www.anybodylistening.net/breakdownroom/index.php?topic=1849.msg29029#msg29029

Interesting! Thanks for sharing.

[Dr. SeaWolf]

Speaking of gimmicks, anyone buy any of Geoff's horrible wine?

[Nick]

I mean, do you know the wine is horrible, or are you just assuming because you hope it is horrible?

I'm not defending him, but having not had any I don't see any reason why he couldn't produce good wine.

[Orbert]

You mean produce a good whine, amirite?

[Dr. SeaWolf]

To be honest, I made the assumption that it's horrible

I read the description of the wine, and it just doesn't sound very good.  As I understand it, Geoff didn't make the wine himself, he just mixed a bunch of already-existing wines together.

[cfmoran13]

As we all know, the real money in the music industry these days is in the touring.  And, with QR not putting out quality product these days, their show attendance has gotta be suffering. 

Enter gimmick... now, we have a rock band that's overstayed their welcome trying to hang on and cash in by throwing some scantilly-clad women into the mix.  It's a bad idea that just wreaks of desperation. 

I love(d) QR but haven't bought an album since Q2K (and that was one album too many).  They're just a shell of what they were.  And, they should've called it a day when DeGarmo left.  It's just not the same.

[Samsara]

re: Geoff Tate's wine -- never had either of the two vintages. I haven't heard anything BAD about it, but I haven't personally checked it out. I plan to, however.

re: Whip Ale - Michael Wilton has a beer now, called Whip Ale. I HAVE tried that, and frankly, it's really good. It's only available regionally right now, but apparently it was so popular, he's gone with a new distributor, and I think it'll be all over the Pacific Northwest soon.

[El Barto]

Here is why. Read my entire post. The cabaret is a gimmick, because gimmicks are how the current "manager" has to sell the band to promoters.

https://www.anybodylistening.net/breakdownroom/index.php?topic=1849.msg29029#msg29029

Don't have time to hunt it down right now, but I read a pretty long GT interview a month or two ago that is much along those lines.  I had no idea that his wife was their manager, but in retrospect it makes perfect sense, since the interview was largely defending their current course.  His defense of the matter was that the music industry has changed so drastically that it requires similarly drastic strategies from bands to make any money.  He cited lagging record sales (and threw out some interesting numbers), due to a combination of circumstance (including file sharing), as making it impossible for them to survive under the old business model.  The numbers that he gave out struck me as both dead on and completely laughable.  Of course they were selling 15 times as many albums in 1990 as they are now--they were making decent music.  Contrary to Mr. Tate's opinion, it's not file sharing and it's not greedy record companies, it's Jason Slater that's the problem.  Rather than addressing the long and steady decline of their songwriting, they will continue to look for other ways to make money that include this cabaret thing (and isn't there a Broadway musical version of OM in the works?).

[Dr. SeaWolf]

re: Whip Ale - Michael Wilton has a beer now, called Whip Ale. I HAVE tried that, and frankly, it's really good. It's only available regionally right now, but apparently it was so popular, he's gone with a new distributor, and I think it'll be all over the Pacific Northwest soon.

What manner of ale is it?  I'm a total beer snob, so I'm actually quite interested in this one.

[skydivingninja]

I think the broadway musical of OM was an idea that Adam Pascal had and just decided to talk about how much he'd want to direct/act in it.  I do agree with El Barto that a band like this needs to realize that when the quality of songwriting goes down, people aren't going to buy as many records, file sharing is only one part of the problem.  I just hope that in real, non-interview life he realizes that what they've been doing can't hold a candle to OM or Empire, since bands have a tendency to always say the newest album is their greatest work in interviews whether they believe it or not.  

And like everyone has said, this cabaret thing is stupidity beyond words.

[Samsara]

Well yeah, the business model needed to change, but they adopted a short term, whore-out, mo money now approach, instead of taking the time to create a long term plan. Both the short and long term approaches work, depending on your goals.

The problem is, Susan Tate is Tate's wife, her interest is in securing HER future, quickly, so that she can retire and life easy. Doesn't sound like that bad of an idea, but Geoff should be smarter than that. This is Geoff, Ed, Scott, and Michael's band. Susan had absolutely no experience prior to taking over Queensryche and if you talk to anyone she's dealt with over time, she's a horrible communicator.

They sold out what Queensryche was all about to get as much cash as they could now, sacrificing long term growth. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

I'm just talking business.

If you want to talk creative, then yeah, I agree, Slater should not be writing their songs. They should have taken the time to find someone worth investing in that could fill that second guitar spot and songwriter spot, and made that person "the guy." They didn't. They went cheap in hiring Mike Stone, and cheaper again in hiring the Tate's son in law. It's ridiculous.

But it's all about the short term cash grab.

[Samsara]

I think the broadway musical of OM was an idea that Adam Pascal had and just decided to talk about how much he'd want to direct/act in it.  I do agree with El Barto that a band like this needs to realize that when the quality of songwriting goes down, people aren't going to buy as many records, file sharing is only one part of the problem.  I just hope that in real, non-interview life he realizes that what they've been doing can't hold a candle to OM or Empire, since bands have a tendency to always say the newest album is their greatest work in interviews whether they believe it or not.  

And like everyone has said, this cabaret thing is stupidity beyond words.

re: Broadway - no idea where that is. Honestly, I don't think the band's current manager has the business sense to get a deal done that works.

re: Whip Ale - it's a pale ale. I'm not a beer snob, I just enjoy the beers I like so not sure how to describe it.

[King Postwhore]

re: Whip Ale - Michael Wilton has a beer now, called Whip Ale. I HAVE tried that, and frankly, it's really good. It's only available regionally right now, but apparently it was so popular, he's gone with a new distributor, and I think it'll be all over the Pacific Northwest soon.

What manner of ale is it?  I'm a total beer snob, so I'm actually quite interested in this one.

So wine from the ryche is bad but beer from the Ryche is good?   I'm with you cause i hate wine but looooooove beer but it is funny that your ribbing them for one but not the other.

[Nick]

Now if only I could get some Rockenfield Rum or Edbass Vodka.

[Dr. SeaWolf]

you got me on that one, kingshmegland.  I have to admit, I'm not really a fan of wine (though I do like a glass on occasion).  Compound that with my dislike for the direction Geoff has taken the band, and I admit I would be more compelled to try Wilton's beer than Tate's wine.

[El Barto]

https://www.genestout.com/index.php/queensryche-cabaret-qa-with-singer-musician-geoff-tate/

“There is no record industry anymore. It’s gone,” Tate said. “Any kind of intellectual material — music, movies, books, newspapers, magazines — all these things are going down. All the millions and millions of dollars that people made in these industries — not just individuals, but the support network that made a living from those industries — all those jobs are going or are gone. The whole thing is unraveling and it’ll just keep unraveling until there’s nothing left. Because of the Internet. That’s the vehicle. Not the cause, just the vehicle.

“And so you can’t use the music industry model of 10 years ago to talk about today. It doesn’t exist. And a lot of people who don’t know anything about the industry, when they see a band not being able to sell records or selling very few records, they tend to think, ‘Oh, that band must not be very good.’ Or the artist must not be very good — or that’s releasing sub-par material. But they don’t understand that you can’t sell records on the scale we had before.”

Queensryche has sold more than 20 million albums. In the band’s heyday in the early ’90s, a new album might sell 500,000 copies in a relatively short period of time, causing jubilation at the band’s record label.

“Today, the younger guys in the business are jumping up and down when their band sells 2,000 records. There’s a big difference between 2,000 and 500,000. And that number keeps going down and down.”

There’s no way to fight the Internet and technological advancements, Tate said.

“Any time you put a safeguard on it that is supposed to protect people, protect the intellectual property, within a week or less someone figures out a way to get around it. So this has changed the way musicians make a living. Whereas we used to play 110 live dates a year, now we’re playing 210 dates a year. So income-wise we’re not being hurt by the piracy. We’re making the same amount of money we were back then. So it’s not hurting us.

“But new bands, new artists, who don’t have a touring audience, can’t go into any major city around the world and plop down and play a big show. How will that happen? And what is the fate of art and music in our culture?

“You can’t get bitter and cynical about it and pine for the good old days. It’s just not going to happen. You have to get crazy and come up with new ways of making a living.”

American Soldier sold 21k first week.  By way of comparison, BC&SL sold 41k in the first week.

[Orbert]

That may be true, but Tate does make some good points.  He's all whiney about it ("you just can't anymore, people don't understand"), but he makes some good points.  The Internet has changed everything, and no one knows what the hell will work anymore, and even if it works today, whether or not it will work tomorrow.  We know that the old models don't work, but no one knows what does.

[El Barto]

The internet has changed everything except one constant:  make music that people want to buy.  Making shitty music and then trying to get different people in to see mild T&A at the concerts isn't a particularly good marketing strategy. 

[Samsara]

There are two things at play here:

Business

Art

They rarely mix well. It is true, and Tate makes the point, that it IS useless to look at old business models. That said, you need someone skillful enough to create a business model that takes your business (band) and sustains and grows that business going forward. What is going on in Camp Ryche these days is not that. Sure, they still make money...for now. But when you are a band that isn't putting out music (art side) that people enjoy a ton, you start cashing in on your past...and when that well runs dry, you'll no longer be making that income, nor playing 210 dates a year...because you DEVALUED YOUR BRAND.

Queensryche is experiencing that now. It's all about the next gimmick to keep the live shows going. Because their "manager" is too close to the band (Tate's wife) and is worried about how to support her family instead of giving long term building and growth advice.

There are many ways to play LESS and make MORE for a band like Queensryche with a rich history and popular catalog. But it takes sacrifice in the short term for a longer term gain, and they've elected for the short term payout to milk the cow dry.

A band like Dream Theater...they didn't even plan on playing these Maiden dates. Think about that. No big deal, they basically were set to take 3/4 of a year off. Why? Because they slowly built their brand up over a decade to a level now where they can likely play less shows, but still make more money than they did when they were touring for Awake and FII. Seriously.

I'd love to have a chat with DT's management team and see their business plan. Because it's exactly the one that QUeensryche SHOULD have used.

[King Postwhore]

you got me on that one, kingshmegland.  I have to admit, I'm not really a fan of wine (though I do like a glass on occasion).  Compound that with my dislike for the direction Geoff has taken the band, and I admit I would be more compelled to try Wilton's beer than Tate's wine.

I was laughing reading it because I love beer to and hate wine but I knew Tate is pissing you off also.

[Manolito Mystiq]

It wouldn't be a bad idea at all to have a different way of performing. Interesting that one comes with Dennis de Young. I actually thought about him and Phil Collins. The thing is, it needs conviction. Killroy was Here, while very musicalish, was still presented so well. Obviously it's having an opinion here. I feel, however, that Dennis didn't do this to cash in, but because he always was theatrical and wanted to go further.
The same goes with Phil Collins. While I do believe that he and the other band members completely agreed that it would be a more commercial/cash in approach, there still was thought behind it, Genesis still being a quality product.

When I saw that poster of this Queensr˙che goes Cabaret, it looks like a bad idea, however, it could work, it could be something. I had envisioned something like the Musical Cabaret, or Christina Aguilera's Back to Basics-era, with a QR flavour. Quite unrealistic, but it could be something if they really had thought about it. But when I watched the clip of YouTube, I see there is really no thought behind it other than thinking about money.