Author Topic: Mass Effect (merged thread)  (Read 67895 times)

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Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #665 on: May 28, 2012, 03:37:58 PM »
This may have been shared before: https://www.gamesthirst.com/2012/03/25/mass-effect-3-writer-accuse-casey-hudson-of-going-it-alone-bioware-stays-silent/

Very interesting article about how all of the ME3 writers but one were excluded from writing the game's ending.
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Offline Sigz

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #666 on: May 28, 2012, 03:53:41 PM »
Wow.
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Offline robwebster

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #667 on: May 29, 2012, 05:55:56 AM »
Oh! I love Patrick Weekes.

I don't know, though. I felt it. I very much felt the ending. It was tragic, genuinely distressing, and I very much had the weight of the decision upon my shoulders. I also think it made a lot more sense than people give it credit for.

The ideas that the fans bandy around tend to make less sense than the actual ending. A normal human - a fairly charismatic and battle-scarred human, but a human regardless - should have an option to talk down the reapers? By communicating with an AI that once had control of them but pretty much has no contact with them any more? Yeah, good luck with that. [SNIP, lets not go there please - XJDenton] Getting the ancient-and-forever race of superintelligent machines to disregard trillions of years of eyewitness evidence by spending a few minutes talking to the reapers' estranged godmother? Not a chance. The catalyst's powerless. Even if you can convince the little boy thing, (and I think you probably can! It's opened up because it wants to change, wants to delegate the decision - I think it's already convinced of your greater wisdom, to be honest) it still can't do anything about it except control, destroy or synthesise.

That said, a lot of the things that Patrick suggests are things I'd really, really have liked to have seen implemented. It's how the final battle looked in my head. I've never minded the details staying in my head, but I agree that if the writing is the sole effort of one man, it does kind of show. What we've got's good. There are a lot of very exciting, very strong moments - it's the dramatic conclusion the series earned. But what could've been would've been that much better. Once you stop listening to critics, you probably become much happier. Once you stop listening to editors, though... well, you become George Lucas.



The comments on the article are more depressing, though, by my buck. I don't like how society seems to hold cynicism up on a pedestal. It shows that you're discriminating, that you're not naive, you're untrickable. Like a self-styled Sherlock Holmes. But cynicism has about as much to do with real intelligence as Rolf Harris has to do with kangaroos. They're from a similar ballpark, and I'm sure they've crossed paths a few times, but the vast majority of the time they're in two completely different words. Misplaced cynicism is just as foolish as misplaced optimism, but twice as obnoxious. Optimism doesn't carry quite the same arrogance - "I'm above your trickery," etc.



Also - today's d-day! Rebellion releases today. Saved up 240,000 credits or so, might be getting at least one new character if I'm lucky - though I won't be entirely surprised if I'm not. Drove myself to despair trying to unlock the Resurgence fellows - still don't have either of the geth or the batarian sentinel. This random unlock system leaves me very frustrated indeed. Turns a fun game into a chore. Just one new guy would be lovely, though. And I mean new new. I'll take a geth in a pinch, I suppose.

As ever, there are delays in getting it online. Joy.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 09:56:25 AM by XJDenton »

Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #668 on: June 01, 2012, 07:33:22 AM »
I'm almost through my second playthrough. I've really enjoyed myself thus far. Mass Effect 3 is truly a good game. Will wait for Extended Cut to finish.
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Offline Omega

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #669 on: June 01, 2012, 09:47:39 AM »
The collective might of DTF can't convince Omega that gay marriage is basically harmless, over a few weeks, typing to his face.

Really? Not to derail this thread, [SNIP, then don't start then. - XJDenton]

That said, I've always thought the ending was jarring, unintelligent-while-masquerading-as-"deep," and, well, quite simply bad. And now we have good reason to know exactly why (Casey's marvelous "plan").
« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 09:55:43 AM by XJDenton »
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Offline XJDenton

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #670 on: June 01, 2012, 10:04:33 AM »
Omega, Rob, lets not start this crap over in GD please.

In any case, if true, that article confirms what I somewhat expected, that the ending was written by somebody/some team that was disconnected in some sense by the rest of the narrative. And its worse for it.
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Offline robwebster

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #671 on: June 01, 2012, 10:16:59 AM »
Omega, Rob, lets not start this crap over in GD please.
Genuinely - wasn't the intention! Just wanted an example of a fairly fiery argument. Many apologies XJ, and sorry to Omega, too, if it seemed like I was baiting you. Bit flippant, admittedly, but you get the intention, I hope. Was by no means planning to discuss it.

Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #672 on: June 01, 2012, 10:27:25 AM »
My problem with the ending is that it feels like the ending to a linear game. It simply doesn't feel right.
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Offline XJDenton

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #673 on: June 01, 2012, 11:16:11 AM »
Omega, Rob, lets not start this crap over in GD please.
Genuinely - wasn't the intention! Just wanted an example of a fairly fiery argument. Many apologies XJ, and sorry to Omega, too, if it seemed like I was baiting you. Bit flippant, admittedly, but you get the intention, I hope. Was by no means planning to discuss it.

No worries. :) I got your intention, but as PR discussions amongst the member base can get heated at the best of times, I'd rather such references not be made outside the proper forums lest it starts off something inadvertently.
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Offline Dimitrius

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #674 on: June 22, 2012, 02:03:49 PM »
https://www.ign.com/articles/2012/06/22/mass-effect-3-extended-cut-coming-next-week

Quote
The Extended Cut will be a 1.9GB download. As for specific content, BioWare notes that it will include “additional scenes and epilogue sequences. It provides more of the answers and closure that players have been asking for. It gives a sense of what the future holds as a result of the decisions made throughout the series. And it shows greater detail in the successes or failures based on how players achieved their endings.”

BioWare notes that the game is “an expansion of the original endings to Mass Effect 3” but “does not fundamentally change the endings, but rather it expands on the meaning of the original endings, and reveals greater detail on the impact of player decisions.”

The company recommends that players “load a save game from before the [final Cerberus mission of the game] and play through to the end of the game.” The actual content of the Extended Cut will differ “depending on choices made throughout the Mass Effect series, so multiple playthroughs with a variety of different decisions will be required to experience the variety of possibilities offered by the new content.”

With the release of this I'll finish my second playthrough with my first character and then my full renegade playthrough.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2012, 02:12:45 PM by Dimitrius »
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Offline robwebster

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #675 on: June 26, 2012, 05:19:30 PM »
Won't mean much, given how I enjoyed the original ending anyway, but - I liked it!

Good stuff - added plenty. Lots of fist-punch moments, and maybe another tear in my eye right at the end. Look, it's just humid in here, okay!?

Offline Dimitrius

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #676 on: June 26, 2012, 10:09:48 PM »
Just finished with the synthesis ending with the extended cut added in, pretty nice. I didn't hate the original ending so this was just gravy.
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Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #677 on: June 27, 2012, 10:04:18 AM »
I took a second to reflect upon ME3 once I watched the Extended Cut last night. After thinking about it, I don't think I care that much about the content of the ending so much as its tone. Let me explain:

ME1 and ME2 were rousing adventure stories. They had a really fun tone about them that wasn't afraid to get serious in moments. Conversely, ME3 is so damn dark. The ending is ever darker. It just doesn't feel right. It's so weird. Obviously it's not rare for certain installments in a trilogy to be darker than others, but ME3 is so much darker it throws me off. It makes a lot of sense why it is - and it probably couldn't have been any other way - but it's too much for me at times. The way the series ends with somber piano in the background and the main character dying feels realistic but also incongruous.
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Offline Dimitrius

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #678 on: June 27, 2012, 11:17:15 AM »
I mean, if there's a sentient race of immortal machines hellbent on the destruction of all space-faring life in the galaxy... kinda difficult to NOT be dark.

I personally liked how dark it is. It should be, the fate of ALL organic life is at stake.
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Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #679 on: June 27, 2012, 12:14:46 PM »
It makes sense why it's so dark. Absolutely.

It just feels wrong that it is, you know? Like... The Empire Strikes Back is the darkest Star Wars movie, but it's still a whole lot of fun. Mass Effect 3 doesn't have a fun bone in its body. I don't think Commander Shepard cracks a joke the whole game. :lol

Again, I'm not doubting the realism of it. It's realistic that it's so dark. But realism can sometimes hinder enjoyment, and I think it does here.
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Offline robwebster

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #680 on: June 27, 2012, 12:28:14 PM »
There are a few fun bones! "I'm Garrus Vakarian and this is now my favourite spot on the citadel!"

I do agree, though. The vibe is very claustrophobic. Funereal - and it only mounts as the game progresses. Works for me, but I can't blame anyone who has less fun with it. Said the same up-thread - "ME2 was the high-octane excitement of a Doctor Who finale, with tangible danger built in. ME3 was bleak, nihilism through sacrifice."

There's no adrenaline in ME3. No light at the end of the tunnel. Just doom. That said, the extended endings do return a bit of joie de vivre to the universe, which I'm very happy with.

Offline XJDenton

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #681 on: June 27, 2012, 12:34:56 PM »
The extended endings are definitely an improvement, though I still hate everything the starchild is and says.
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Offline ariich

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #682 on: June 27, 2012, 02:11:10 PM »
I took a second to reflect upon ME3 once I watched the Extended Cut last night. After thinking about it, I don't think I care that much about the content of the ending so much as its tone. Let me explain:

ME1 and ME2 were rousing adventure stories. They had a really fun tone about them that wasn't afraid to get serious in moments. Conversely, ME3 is so damn dark. The ending is ever darker. It just doesn't feel right. It's so weird. Obviously it's not rare for certain installments in a trilogy to be darker than others, but ME3 is so much darker it throws me off. It makes a lot of sense why it is - and it probably couldn't have been any other way - but it's too much for me at times. The way the series ends with somber piano in the background and the main character dying feels realistic but also incongruous.
Hmm, interesting, I mean I do find ME3 darker, but not abnormally so. I always though there were dark moments in the first two games - in fact that side of the story was part of what made me love it in the first place. And there's plenty of humour and light touches in ME3 as well, but I think the tone works really well to make it feel simply epic.

And on your last point, the "main character dying" doesn't necessarily happen. :P

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Offline Dimitrius

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #683 on: June 27, 2012, 02:14:01 PM »
But I'm not gonna play hours and hours of multiplayer JUST to have a 5000 EMS!
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Offline ariich

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #684 on: June 27, 2012, 02:15:54 PM »
But I'm not gonna play hours and hours of multiplayer JUST to have a 5000 EMS!
Hours and hours? I've only played multiplayer once, for maybe a couple of hours, and my % increased quite a lot. :lol

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Offline Dimitrius

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #685 on: June 27, 2012, 02:17:18 PM »
You % is not the one that matters for the ending, it's the EMS and you'll need to play hours and hours to level up a character to 20 and send him to the "main game" and give you war assets.
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Offline robwebster

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #686 on: June 27, 2012, 02:29:35 PM »
You don't need it any more! Since the EC was released it's been scooched down to a more attainable 3,100.

Not to mention, you'd be surprised how quickly the readiness increases.

Offline ariich

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #687 on: June 27, 2012, 02:37:41 PM »
You % is not the one that matters for the ending, it's the EMS and you'll need to play hours and hours to level up a character to 20 and send him to the "main game" and give you war assets.
Doesn't the % affect the EMS?

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Offline Dimitrius

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #688 on: June 27, 2012, 02:42:48 PM »
You don't need it any more! Since the EC was released it's been scooched down to a more attainable 3,100.
Now that's more reasonable! Because even with you saving the rachni, saving the heretic geth, doing every side mission and finding every war asset on the galaxy map it only amounts to about 3500 EMS.
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Offline robwebster

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #689 on: June 27, 2012, 02:45:06 PM »
You % is not the one that matters for the ending, it's the EMS and you'll need to play hours and hours to level up a character to 20 and send him to the "main game" and give you war assets.
Doesn't the % affect the EMS?
Effective Military Strength is war assets (single player) multiplied by readiness. (Multiplayer.) You can promote your teams from multiplayer into single player if you want to to permanently bolster your war assets across all games, but it's optional. You can do one or the other.

You don't need it any more! Since the EC was released it's been scooched down to a more attainable 3,100.
Now that's more reasonable! Because even with you saving the rachni, saving the heretic geth, doing every side mission and finding every war asset on the galaxy map it only amounts to about 3500 EMS.
Yeah - precisely! So you now get rewarded for a completionist single player run even if you haven't played multiplayer, or if you have played multiplayer you can afford to lose a couple more assets. Much better now!

Offline Omega

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #690 on: June 27, 2012, 04:09:10 PM »
Yesterday, I was able to play through the Extended Cut portion. I chose Synthesis again. It was, undoubtedly, a much needed improvement over the last lackluster ending. I found the added portions to be very much so emotionally satisfying. However, there is still something about the Synthesis ending for me that troubles me. I haven't been able to reflect on the Extended Cut ending for too long, so I haven't been able to put my finger on it just yet. But of two things that don't sit too well with me I'm sure:

One is that, again, the conversation with a holographic child seems to be to jarring for my taste. I would have preferred it if the space-child was removed and and exchanged with a conversation with Harbinger.

I also fancy the idea, perhaps, of instead having Shepard pass out, wake in a silent, serene, completely white area and converse with an unembodied, calm, all-knowing mind with a deep and inhuman voice (or perhaps a collective "animus" of all the souls / individuals who have existed and died through the course of the existence of the Milky Way). After the conversation, Shepard wakes and makes the final decision.

The second thing that doesn't sit too well with me is that the Synthesis ending seems to end on too-utopian a note. Supposedly, all life-forms are now enlightened and infinitely wise individuals. The Milky Way seems to have been turned into a realized heaven or afterlife. I believe I even heard EDI narrate the possibility of immortality for all life-forms now, both once-organic and once-synthetic. If so, then I have two further problems with this conclusion. One is: what further possible stories could be told in such a utopian future? If all life-forms are immortal (or at least quasi-immortal) and if all are absolutely enlightened, then I don't see how crime or further immoralities continue occurring in such a future. I can't see a possible conflict or antagonist in such a future. And second is that, if all life-forms in the Milky Way are now immortal (or quasi-immortal -- whatever that is supposed to mean), then doesn't life become rather trivial now? All life, then, would simply be able to live forever until either the Milky Way is no more or when the Universe reaches Heat Death. I'm not sure I fancy the idea of living an almost infinite life with not much semblance of purpose or meaning.

Anyway. Just some thoughts I wanted to post. Yay.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 04:29:52 PM by Omega »
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Offline ariich

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #691 on: June 27, 2012, 04:12:17 PM »
You % is not the one that matters for the ending, it's the EMS and you'll need to play hours and hours to level up a character to 20 and send him to the "main game" and give you war assets.
Doesn't the % affect the EMS?
Effective Military Strength is war assets (single player) multiplied by readiness. (Multiplayer.) You can promote your teams from multiplayer into single player if you want to to permanently bolster your war assets across all games, but it's optional. You can do one or the other.
Yeah I thought so! My EMS was really high when I finished the game other than the fact that my readiness % was low as I had never played multiplayer. If I had I think around 80-90% I'd have had the amount needed for the full ending, and from my couple of hours experience I don't think it would take me long to get there.

Dimi must have just sucked at the game. :P

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Offline robwebster

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #692 on: July 11, 2012, 01:09:47 PM »

Oh, well look at that - lucky us.

ADEPT
Throw
Annihilation Field
Dark Channel

Meet Fiona Fury. She's an adept. She likes throwing things, long walks through annihilation fields, and evenings at home in a nice warm hoodie watching the dark channel.

SOLDIER
Multi-Frag Grenade
Missile Launcher
Devastator Mode

This is Krunk the Destroyer. He's a soldier, and while he can be a little tough on the outside, but once you get to know him he'll analyse your genitals then activate DEVASTATOR MODE.

ENGINEER
Homing Grenade
Arc Grenade
Supply Pylon

Demolition Dani reporting, and what a generous girl. What she doesn't know about conjuring grenades and ammo out of thin air isn't worth knowing.

SENTINEL
Snap Freeze
Incinerate
Energy Drain

Saladin the Paladin has a shield instead of an omni-tool, but don't be fooled. Though he might seem a bit defensive at first, he's a warm guy on the inside. And then a cold guy, and then a warm guy again, as quickly as his cooldown permits.

INFILTRATOR
Tactical Cloak
Shadow Strike
Electric Slash

Sally Shadow can sometimes be a little bit shy, but she's a sharp girl when you get to know her. If you can't feel the sparks flying, you soon will, because that means you're an enemy of the Alliance and must be impaled with prejudice.

VANGUARD
Phase Disruptor
Biotic Charge
Biotic Slash

This man has a cape.

Bring the muthalickin' noise.

Plus, new objective (escort mission); new difficulty mode (Platinum); new guns; maps in London, Rio, Vancouver... and did I mention that man has a cape?

EDIT, 23rd Nov 2012 - Most of these images have disappeared. So I have deleted them.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2012, 02:25:24 PM by robwebster »

Offline robwebster

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #693 on: July 20, 2012, 01:37:48 PM »
Getting the distinct feeling I might be the only multiplayer fan here - ah well!

This might have slightly broader appeal. Extended Cut soundtrack, available for free, in lossless quality. Lovely stuff.

Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #694 on: October 28, 2012, 05:22:04 PM »
I just finished playing Leviathan, and wanted to take a second to further rant why Mass Effect 3 is my least favorite of the series:

The combat to me is not fun. The reason why is because it plays like multiplayer combat, even in single player. It's a very defensive style of combat, especially against the Reapers, where you're popping some shots off and then running to the other side of the battle field just praying for your life. Whereas Mass Effect 1 and 2 put you in a room and said "Advance from Point A to Point B" and put you on the offensive, Mass Effect 3 puts you in open spaces and says, "Survive". I really don't like that approach. I prefer the Gears of War approach.
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Offline Dark Castle

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #695 on: October 28, 2012, 05:39:49 PM »
The "Survive" aspect is much more thrilling to me, it makes you that much more determined to get through.

Offline Dimitrius

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #696 on: October 28, 2012, 05:50:06 PM »
I haven't played Leviathan (waiting on Omega to be released to go a full renegade playthrough), but I know what you mean with the combat.
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Offline robwebster

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #697 on: October 29, 2012, 05:36:55 AM »
Oh, I don't know. There's Thessia. And you're constantly pushing forward in Sur'Kesh - up, then up, then up through the facility. And the Citadel, and London. But the main motive for improving the combat is because there wasn't much strategy in Mass Effect 2. In the developers' words, you could just pick a spot of cover near the beginning and unleash hell. They'd spent a long time on level design, but most of what they'd created would be unnecessary in any given firefight, so they started creating environments where, not only would you have to move around, but you'd have to make choices. There would be multiple ways to tackle it - a sniper could slip around the side and up the stairs, or you could linger around the start Mass Effect 2 style if you're able to deal with the grenades, so that creates at least a little movement (which they've armed you to do - see, cover roll!), or you can stomp across the battlefield with a claymore, running up to brutes and taking names. It should really be a lot more versatile than defensive. I'd say it is, anyway - Mass Effect 2 was mostly long corridors. Maybe it's just Leviathan? There are a lot of open rooms in Lev, and not much cover - thinking of the Triton platform in particular, without giving too much away to our spoiler-free friends. The, er, deserty bit is corridors to the max, mind. Always, always heading forward.

Can't change whether you find it fun or no... but have you considered slipping the difficulty down a touch? Not loads, and just for a bit to give you time to muck around with different strategies, but I'd honestly say that the current engine rewards aggression far more than any previous, and as long as you get rid of the Cannibals or Assault Troopers quickly you should be just fine in cover. Or you could try playing as a vanguard where, with Biotic Charge's shield boost, a good offence is always the very best form of defence.

That's a point, actually. Which class are you, Xanadu? Because I imagine that could make a huge difference to how the maps feel, too.

Offline robwebster

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Re: Mass Effect 3
« Reply #698 on: October 29, 2012, 05:47:30 AM »
Also! Sorry, just reading the thread through again, couldn't resist...

The only thing I'm going into Mass Effect 3 wanting is lots of opportunity for choice, and also maybe more open battlefields.

This must be the epitome of "be careful what you wish for!"

Offline ariich

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #699 on: October 29, 2012, 04:47:27 PM »
:lol Awesome.

But yeah, I think ME3 strikes a good balance between survival missions and A-to-B missions. I enjoy both for different reasons.

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