Mass Effect (merged thread)

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

I just got ME3 and therefore late to the party!

I enjoy it so far but iīm so annoyed that you canīt  holster your weapon anymore and iīm not even joking! I hate it! 
Why Bioware why? Just a simple little animation that you for some reason didnīt think were important....but itīs the small things that counts, atleast for me!

Other than that.....perfect game so far! 

[Omega]

I just got ME3 and therefore late to the party!

I enjoy it so far but iīm so annoyed that you canīt  holster your weapon anymore and iīm not even joking! I hate it! 
Why Bioware why? Just a simple little animation that you for some reason didnīt think were important....but itīs the small things that counts, atleast for me!

Other than that.....perfect game so far! 

Oh, it's an amazing, emotionally gripping game. And then there's the entire last mission. Well...I'll let you find out for yourself...

[robwebster]

I just got ME3 and therefore late to the party!

I enjoy it so far but iīm so annoyed that you canīt  holster your weapon anymore and iīm not even joking! I hate it! 
Why Bioware why? Just a simple little animation that you for some reason didnīt think were important....but itīs the small things that counts, atleast for me!

Other than that.....perfect game so far! 

I think you have to hold down "back," if you're on XBox.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Oh, it's an amazing, emotionally gripping game. And then there's the entire last mission. Well...I'll let you find out for yourself...

Haha yeah! The legendary ending!! That should be interesting!

I think you have to hold down "back," if you're on XBox.

Really? It works on the XBox? I have asked the mighty google and itīs answer on the PC is NO? 

[Dimitrius]

Because PC gaming is dying, obviously.

[Sigz]

Finally got my desktop working, and have been able to play it. I'm ~10-12 hours in, it's pretty awesome.

Thoughts so far: SPOILERS



-Tresher maw vs. the reaper was quite possibly the most epic thing ever
-On that note, the entire section on Tuchanka was excellent. Eve was a really interesting character, and the choice regarding the cure sabotage was really interesting. Also, Mordin
-Where the fuck is Tali?
-EDI's become a really interesting character
-Kinda disappointed with the crew so far. I mean, Garrus is my bro in chief and Liara is adorbs, but EDI is terrible in combat and James is just there. Also, Kaiden is a tard.
-Love the new melee stuff, and the new weapon mod and weight system is really well done
-I'm not entirely sold on Cerberus changing from a somewhat extreme pro-human group to some kind of crypto-fascist paramilitary shitshow with half-reaper soldiers
-On that note, what the fuck happened in between ME2 and 3? I assume it was covered in some DLC that I don't have something, but I was very confused. A prologue or something would have been nice.
-Again, where the fuck is Tali?

Probably my biggest disappointment (and this is pretty big actually) so far is that so many of the characters are gone, at least thus far. I mean, the vast majority of ME2 was spent building up these amazing, interesting characters and making you care about them, and I'm spent a dozen hours and still have no idea what happened to most of them. Tali, Jack, Grunt, Jacob (meh), Samara, Kasumi, Legion... I mean, come on people.

[ariich]

I think I am going to have to say "no comment" for the moment...

[Dimitrius]

In the Arrival DLC for ME2, a Reaper artifact is found on a meteor close to a Batarian colony, on this artifact was found that the Reapers were gonna use the Mass Relay there to start the invasion in 2 days. To make a somewhat long story short, the meteor is outfitted with some thrusters, Shepards rams the meteor into the Mass  Relay which goes supernova (or something relatively close) and destroys the system killing 300k Batarians.

Shepard is grounded and court martialed for it.

Tali will return once you get to the Rannoch missions, which should be soon considering what you've done already. Also, lolTali.

[The King in Crimson]

There's a serious disconnect between all three games regarding Cerberus and their activities, though it could be argued that The Illusive Man specifically set Shephard up with friends and the less 'extreme' members of the organization in order to facilitate his cooperation.  I can't remember if that is ever covered in ME3...

[robwebster]

You do only meet like... three Cerberus operatives in Mass Effect 2, though, don't you? Miranda, Jacob and Wilson. Four if you include the Illusive Man. By and large, they're just remote investors. Cerberus didn't exploit you, you exploited them.

And everything you see of Cerberus - The Illusive Man's constant deceit, all those dilapidated labs which ran experiments on children... Cerberus are constantly presented as pretty damned dodgy. The Man's always got an excuse or two, but look no further than your teammates. Out of the twelve of them, the only one who doesn't have a pretty massive dark-side is Tali. That's the kind of contacts Cerberus makes. Only kind they can make. The idealistic heroes won't touch them.

ME2 is a series of deals with the devil, a deconstruction of the idea that morality can come neatly packed into black and white. Just as a lot of the "good people" you encounter are fairly rotten - the inept council burying its head in the sand, the Alliance that turns its back on the hero that saved them; your team is a crew of villains who, you discover, sometimes have bigger hearts than the designated good guys.

"Good" and "evil" are relative. It's more about who's willing to stand by you, and who isn't. In ME2, that includes a psychotic knight templar, a man who's developed a virus to kill krogans in their thousands... you get the picture! Even your allies outside the Normandy - Commander Bailey, for instance, is pretty corrupt. He turns a blind eye, makes deals with criminals, but he's useful and basically a nice bloke, so you get on with him. The "evil" characters are often just... differently moral, and a little more pragmatic.

But you're always, always meant to know that at the top of the chain, you're working for mad terrorists.  The Alliance hate you. Kaidan or Ashley feel deceived. When ME3 snaps back to the heroics, you're seeing Cerberus through the goggles of idealism, again, and you're their sworn enemy. Once you stop justifying them, and get to look from the outside in, yeah, they do start to look more like terrorists, again.

Same business, just... very different POV!

[Sigz]

Just beat it. I don't see why everyone hated the ending. It wasn't the best possible way things could go by any means, but I thought it was good none the less.

[Dimitrius]

Just beat it. I don't see why everyone hated the ending. It wasn't the best possible way things could go by any means, but I thought it was good none the less.

And I agree.

[ariich]

Yeah, but you know what people are like, especially in the gamer community.

That said, I do think it could benefit with more detail, so I'm really looking forward to playing it again when the extended cut comes out.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I played single player for the first time in months last night. Beat the Eden Prime mission, which is easily one of my favorite in the game.

[abydos]

Yeah, but you know what people are like, especially in the gamer community.

That said, I do think it could benefit with more detail, so I'm really looking forward to playing it again when the extended cut comes out.

condescending much? doesn't suit you.

[Sigz]

Sorry but when you have Bioware employees being harassed over the internet, "you know what people are like, especially in the gamer community" is a perfectly valid statement to make. Doesn't mean he was referring to everyone who didn't like the ending.

[abydos]

Applies to the majority of the world population, gamers or not. Also it implied all the people who hated the ending, despite the reasons behind their dissatisfaction.

I don't see why everyone hated the ending.

you know what people are like

people, as used here = everyone who hated the ending

[AcidLameLTE]

Someone is certainly making a big deal out of a harmless comment.

Also, thanks for letting me know which albums are coming out in 2009.

[abydos]

I actually made a joke which was then taken too seriously. You're welcome. Thanks for nothing.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I think that some people overreacted to the ending. I hated the ending, but I didn't send BioWare hate mail or some ridiculous shit. Some people in the gamer community were total asses about it.

At the same time... It was a pretty horrible ending.

[ariich]

It's cool abydos, I know you were just ribbing me.

Yeah I didn't mean everyone who disliked the ending. I quite liked it, but I thought it lacked much.. well, anything really (although I have bought into the indoctrination theory, which I think is really damn cool, and a part of me really hopes that comes out in the extended cut), and can completely understand why some people really dislike it. But the way many people in the gamer community reacted was pathetic.

[robwebster]

Did you see they were raising money to put a billboard outside EA headquarters? This is after they announced the extended cut. It was going to say "CLARIFICATION IS NOT ENOUGH," or "NO, WE WANT A NEW ENDING" or something spoiled like that, and they picked specific locations to ensure the EA staff would have to look at it every time they walked to work. Someone had actually looked into prices, how much it'd cost to rent a billboard for a month, a year, multiple billboards, people were voting on what scheme would work best, it was absolutely baffling. How long do you have to spend living in your own head before you become that much of a precocious little sociopath? Or just that much of a dullard, at that?

I don't use the term lightly, but they're a bunch of poisonous, self-entitled brats. I sincerely believe that - and I've said so in as many words on the Bioware boards, before promptly legging it. But then I also think Bioware are perfectly entitled to charge whatever they want for whatever product they want, and this is coming from a recently graduated student with mountains of debt, so I was never going to see eye to eye with them.

Charlie Brooker, as ever, says it best, though, so I'll stop typing now and just copy and paste his take.

The game has a variety of different endings, depending on your decisions: some have moaned that none of the possible endings are happy or satisfying enough. In fact, they've moaned so much, EA has hastily released an additional ending free-of-charge, so these players can experience "further closure".

I can't work out if that's depressing or sweet. On the one hand, they're spoiled little emperors with a mind-boggling sense of entitlement: it's one thing to be disappointed by the end of a story, but another to demand the author sits down and writes you a new one RIGHT NOW. You need "further closure"? What's wrong with you? But on the other hand, it's a sign that players sometimes invest so much of themselves into the characters they play, they care about them to a degree that should make any author jealous.

[ariich]

I had no idea Charlie Brooker had commented on the situation, the guy is such a legend. And as is so often the case, I completely agree with him.

And indeed I agree with you Rob. Wanting more clarification, more closure, that sort of thing, I understand. And from the people I've spoken to, that seems to be the most common and key complaint, which is why I think it was a good idea for Bioware to address it. The vocal minority actually demanding directly from Bioware an entirely new ending are selfish and arrogant, as far as I'm concerned.

[robwebster]

I had no idea Charlie Brooker had commented on the situation, the guy is such a legend. And as is so often the case, I completely agree with him.

And indeed I agree with you Rob. Wanting more clarification, more closure, that sort of thing, I understand. And from the people I've spoken to, that seems to be the most common and key complaint, which is why I think it was a good idea for Bioware to address it. The vocal minority actually demanding directly from Bioware an entirely new ending are selfish and arrogant, as far as I'm concerned.

Yes! Precisely.

It's the line between "That didn't satisfy me," and "HOW DARE YOU DISSATISFY ME." And that's a pretty big fucking line - it's not like I'm being picky, or criticising the people who happen to be the wrong side of a very thin line. It's the difference between rational criticism and a tantrum.

In fact, that's exactly what it is. A tantrum. Baby's not getting his way.

Don't get me wrong, I know how it feels. I bloody loved Fallout 3, and then the ending came along and crashed the wind out from between my wings. And while I personally wouldn't have campaigned for a new ending in the first place, because they don't owe me anything and the ending is the writers' to own, I'm glad they did go back and meddle, because I liked what came from it. (And was happy to pay extra money for it, incidentally.) There's always room for improvement, and sometimes - and hopefully this is one of those times - the developers want to give it. So many people have been so nice in stating their case - protesting by raising money for charity! I loved them for that. Disagreed with them, but loved it. Hopefully, this has been win-win for a lot of people. I'd also say that it makes the continued belligerence that much more unforgivable, though.

What I would say though, and I hope we can all agree on this, is that the final mission was nowhere near as cool as the suicide mission in the last game. Not a big enough cast for something of that calibre, of course, but ohhhh - we were spoiled! I remember watching my brother play it for the first time, I was trembling with excitement - fear, even, and I wasn't even playing! The second he realised he had to assign roles to people he said "Oh god, I'm going to kill people." It was terrifying. And then he had to pick another role straight after! So, so exciting. The moment you see the fire team leader and the technician disembark the Normandy, seeing them head off into the great unknown and you don't have a clue if you might've just sentenced them to death... that's great. Shit gets real. Didn't get anything like that rush of adrenaline with ME3, so to some extent I can see where the venom comes from on that front - Bioware had set the standards incredibly high.

[ariich]

Well yeah but on that point, I can understand some mild disappointment, but only because the end of ME2 was so damn perfect in that regard.

That said, there are some amazing things leading up towards the end of ME3 as well. As you're making your way through the streets of London and one by one you come across the friends you've made across the series (the ones who have survived anyway) and have a heart to heart with them knowing that it could be the last time you ever speak to them, that really got to me. Very different to ME2, but quite brilliant in its own way.

Out of interest, what was the deal with Fallout 3? Were changes made to that? I only played it for the first time recently so I don't know if the ending I had was the original or a revamped one or what? I thought it was quite nicely done, but it seemed to come out of nowhere, there was no real buildup to it, so it felt quite anticlimactic.

[robwebster]

Oh, absolutely - hardly criticising. Lump in my throat when Garrus bid his goodbyes; the whole funereal mood to that sequence was absolutely perfect. No idea whether my character was going to survive - anything could happen, and anything did. I shed a tear when Anderson went. The entire galaxy was right beneath our feet; three games' of history, half a year's investment into these characters, learning to love them and diving head over heels into their universe, and I could feel every ounce of it on my shoulders. So sad to be leaving the world. Even sadder when I felt like I was destroying it so it could live. I'll never again experience anything like it - and it's right that they went for something completely different from Mass Effect 2. ME2 was the high-octane excitement of a Doctor Who finale, with tangible danger built in. ME3 was bleak, nihilism through sacrifice. Was in floods, a full half hour after it ended. Silly, I know, but it's how I expected to feel when I left Harry Potter behind, so I was five years overdue if anything. That's brilliant, though. That a fictional universe can make you feel like that. As Brooker says, any author should be jealous.

FO3 - Yes! Very anti-climactic, precisely. They released a DLC, Broken Steel, whereby you can play on past the ending. Either you survive the radiation, or you can send Fawkes in in your stead. There are a few new subquests added to the Capital wasteland, but on top of that there's a chain of missions whereby you're sent off to personally deal the finishing blow to an Enclave base. And they're exactly what a final mission should be! An enormous bastard of a military base like Raven Rock, with loads of interesting things to find and loads more things trying to kill you.

In my initial playthrough, I tried to send what's-her-face to turn off the pump station, 'cos I wanted to play on past the ending. When the ending slides stopped, not only had I been chewed out, but... that was really it?! Then I tried to send Fawkes in, 'cos he was with me at the time, and he did exactly that when I first met him. To say I was underwhelmed would be a bit of an understatement.

[ariich]

Yeah I have to say I was really annoyed that I couldn't send Fawkes in, when THAT WAS HOW HE GOT ME THE G.E.C.K. IN THE FIRST PLACE AND HE ISN'T AFFECTED BY RADIATION. So basically my choice was be a bitch or potentially kill myself. And then the game ended.

I hadn't heard about Broken Steel, I'd bought a second hand copy on the cheap so it didn't come with any of the add-ons free like the Game of the Year edition does. Does it vastly improve the overall experience? Because I reckon I'll invest in it for a second playthrough if so.

[robwebster]

There's loads of stuff to sink your teeth into. The level cap expands to thirty, it sprinkles new enemies throughout the map - Super Mutant Master, etc. I didn't have the GOTY edition either, so I ummed and ahhed over it for ages, but I eventually bought it, did exactly that, and loved it. New character, new specialisations, new gender, new morality, new everything; dug around all throughout the map, doing a proper completionist run, crawling into every corner of the wasteland and finding all sorts of exciting new quests and places, then eventually (after much delay!) reaching the original ending, and finding I still had a good few hours' worth of content to delve into. Good stuff.

Ron Perlman still chews you out a bit if you send Fawkes in. Says that "a true hero emerged," but I find that easy to ignore 'cos it's so clearly bollocks, he wasn't risking anything more than I do when I cross the road. If risking my life pointlessly is how I become a hero, I don't want to become a hero.

I would say, however, that if you're only going to buy one bit of DLC for your Fallout games, it might rather be worth getting one of the New Vegas four. So, so good. If New Vegas is the film, the DLC's the TV series. FO3's Broken Steel is very definitely an "add on," but the New Vegas DLC comprises four distinct episodes, with their own unique styles, tones, characters, arcs and a storyline that arches over all four, some lovely unique weaponry, costumes, goodies you can carry over... it's cracking stuff. Each one wildly different, too; explores a lot of territory they couldn't have touched in the main game. Weird and wonderful stories, took me a couple of days each.

And I'd also quickly note that they're often discounted in the XBox store. I got Old World Blues and Dead Money two for the price of one. So it can be worth waiting. (Dead Money, incidentally, pays homage to the gas mask zombies from Doctor Who! Neat detail.)

On second thoughts, though, if you're just buying one, maybe Broken Steel would be best, as the other four work better in tandem with each other.

Look at that! We've drifted. Whoops. Sorry, kids.

[Dimitrius]

If it does or doesn't "vastly improve the experience" is up to your opinion, but I enjoyed it quite a bit!

[ariich]

Haha yeah we did go rather off tangent, but thanks for the advice Rob. I'll always make my own mind up on something I've experienced, but when considering what to try or check out, I trust your advice and opinions more than almost anyone else (and not just on this forum)! Seeing as I only got FO3 second hand for maybe a fiver, I reckon I might splash out and just get the GOTY edition with all the perks, and then get the ultimate edition of New Vegas (as I've yet to play that) once it's come down a bit in price. With FO3 in particular, I'd like to do another run through anyway, because I didn't explore side quests nearly enough. I was doing all the quests I came across, but I don't think I actively sought them out nearly enough. I pretty much didn't explore any of the north other than Raven Rock! After the disappointing ending, I wasn't sure if I'd bother, but it sounds like it'd be worth it.

And back on ME3, from reading up on the FO3 drama, it sounds like a very similar situation, but I hugely respect Bioware for addressing it with free DLC rather than charging for it like Bethesda did (although in FO3's case, it was a big add-on with additional missions etc, so it is admittedly a bit different).

[Dimitrius]

If you do get the Broken Steel DLC, whenever you see a Giant Albino Radscorpion RUN THE OTHER FUCKING WAY!!!

[robwebster]

Haha yeah we did go rather off tangent, but thanks for the advice Rob. I'll always make my own mind up on something I've experienced, but when considering what to try or check out, I trust your advice and opinions more than almost anyone else (and not just on this forum)! Seeing as I only got FO3 second hand for maybe a fiver, I reckon I might splash out and just get the GOTY edition with all the perks, and then get the ultimate edition of New Vegas (as I've yet to play that) once it's come down a bit in price. With FO3 in particular, I'd like to do another run through anyway, because I didn't explore side quests nearly enough. I was doing all the quests I came across, but I don't think I actively sought them out nearly enough. I pretty much didn't explore any of the north other than Raven Rock! After the disappointing ending, I wasn't sure if I'd bother, but it sounds like it'd be worth it.

And back on ME3, from reading up on the FO3 drama, it sounds like a very similar situation, but I hugely respect Bioware for addressing it with free DLC rather than charging for it like Bethesda did (although in FO3's case, it was a big add-on with additional missions etc, so it is admittedly a bit different).

Ha, I'm incredibly flattered! Right back atcha. 

There's... I don't want to spoil anything, but there's a very memorable quest tucked right away in the north. It involves a tree, and you'll love it, and that's all I'm saying. I was the same first time round - went for the odd sidequest. Helped Moira Brown (love Moira Brown!) with her guidebook, faffed about with Reilly's Rangers, made friends in Big Town, almost died fetching Lincoln's artifacts, helped around Arefu, etc., but I was broadly going to the places the quests took me. I had absolutely no idea how much stuff I'd missed. Yeah, I think GOTY would be a fine idea!

You have to get New Vegas! The jury's out on which of the two is better - both have pros and cons - but the character, the depth, the sidequests, the whole aesthetic of the Mojave Wasteland was right up my street. Hope you like it too!

Anyway! Mass Effect 3! Yeah! Love that it's free. They released the multiplayer expansion for free, too. Bioware do spoil us - they must be among the classiest devs in the industry. Can't think of anyone who cares as much. Still not got all the characters from the multiplayer pack, actually. Stopped playing it, lately - was getting a little frustrated, spent too long grinding trying to get something unlocked. (Anything unlocked!) Might get back on that at some point. Got the original ME for about the same price you got Fallout 3. Round about November time. Good buys, both of them!

Also, this --

If you do get the Broken Steel DLC, whenever you see a Giant Albino Radscorpion RUN THE OTHER FUCKING WAY!!!

[Sigz]

You know, the ending argument with the elusive man and Anderson really highlights how shitty the series' persuasion system is. It had NO excitement besides the anticipation of finding out what was going to happen. You just hit the paragon or renegade buttons, or if you have enough points in it use the special option - there's no actual gameplay. Compare that to DX:HR, where persuasion was literally persuasion - figuring out the right thing to say based on what you know about the character - and ME3 just flops.

But don't get me wrong though, I actually loved the fact that they pretty much ended the climax with an argument. I just wish the mechanics of it were better.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Finished the Tuchanka part of the game last night on my second playthrough. One thing that's striking me this second time around is how short all the missions are. They're like 20 minutes a piece.

[robwebster]

There are more of them, though. Mass Effect had five (four and a half!) long missions, plus sidequests. Mass Effect 3 has three long campaigns each comprising a handful of short missions, plus sidequests.

Mass Effect
-- Intro: Eden Prime & the Citadel --
1. Feros
2. Er... Liara's planet.
3. Noveria
4. Virmire
5. Ilos & the Citadel

Mass Effect 3
-- Intro: Earth & Mars --
1. Menae, Sur'Kesh & Tuchanka
2. The Citadel & Rannoch
3. Thessia & Horizon
4. The Illusive Man's Base & Earth

The intros are probably roughly comparable lengthwise with the edge possibly going to ME1, Feros is probably a fair bit shorter than the Tuchanka trilogy but you can add Liara's recruitment mission to make it up to a similar ballpark, Rannoch is probably a little longer than Noveria, Thessia & Horizon are probably comparable to Virmire in length and structure, and the final missions are about the same.

Yes, the missions are a lot shorter, but that's only because you're doing a series of little missions instead of one big mission. Which is only right, seeing as you can't switch weapons or armour in the middle of a mission like you could in the original Mass Effect - makes sense that you get to go to the Normandy more often. One thing to try out an unknown weapon on a twenty-minute mission, quite another to try it out and find out you're locked into it for the next few hours.

In other news! Vorcha, male quarians, and ex-Cerberus operatives to be added to multiplayer next week. Exciting times! I've still not got half of the last pack, though - drove myself nutty trying to unlock them, put me off MP for a fair few weeks. Good excuse to dig it out again, mind. I wanted to be a male quarian from the start, so I'm quite excited for this. Vorcha should be interesting, too. Must be running out of races before long, though. We've still got, um... female turians, I guess? Playable LOKI mechs? Collectors? A very tall volus? A volus in a robotic combat-suit would be ace, actually. Write that one down.