Mass Effect (merged thread)

[Omega]

Really disappointed with the announced DLC. Who wants further "clarity" for a broken ending? I sure don't. Reflecting on the ending for about a month now, I've come to the conclusion that it really is just a terrible ending which sacrificed many themes, plot lines and character dimensions and introduced a new terrible plot line in the last 5 minutes of the game. Bioware is simply to proud to admit that they simply messed up with the ending.

[ariich]

They didn't "mess up" and I find it quite arrogant of fans to say things like that.

You didn't like it, that's fine of course. But they're obviously happy with the overall artistic vision and don't want to change that. The majority of the complaints have been around clarity and the fact that the ending didn't seem to depend on choices made, both of which they are answering. I think that's pretty damn good because they don't owe a damn thing to us.

[abydos]

Now if they only fix the plot and other holes, too. It's a terribad ending. The execution is bad, the rest is subjective for the most part.

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

Really disappointed with the announced DLC. Who wants further "clarity" for a broken ending? I sure don't. Reflecting on the ending for about a month now, I've come to the conclusion that it really is just a terrible ending which sacrificed many themes, plot lines and character dimensions and introduced a new terrible plot line in the last 5 minutes of the game. Bioware is simply to proud to admit that they simply messed up with the ending.

You make absolutely no sense. I think they pretty much are admitting they fucked up, and lots are disappointed at the lack of clarity, so they are providing them with some. If you don't like it, don't download it. It's that simple.

[Omega]

They didn't "mess up" and I find it quite arrogant of fans to say things like that.

You didn't like it, that's fine of course. But they're obviously happy with the overall artistic vision and don't want to change that. The majority of the complaints have been around clarity and the fact that the ending didn't seem to depend on choices made, both of which they are answering. I think that's pretty damn good because they don't owe a damn thing to us.

I think it's pretty safe to say that the ending was a complete and utter mess-up. And, no, most fans weren't complaining that the ending didn't "clarify" enough -- they complained about the ending period. The game advances wonderfully and in the last 5 minutes, a subplot is enlarged to take over all others and plot holes, confusion and anger emerge. They're not changing the ending at all, which I believe is what should happen. They're merely expanding on said terrible ending, so they're not really answering anything. If their "artistic vision" entails a disaster for an ending, then they are either too blind to realize how crappy an ending they crafted for this amazing series or too proud to admit that they ruined the ending. And I absolutely loved 99% of the Mass Effect series, I ought to add.

[Omega]

Really disappointed with the announced DLC. Who wants further "clarity" for a broken ending? I sure don't. Reflecting on the ending for about a month now, I've come to the conclusion that it really is just a terrible ending which sacrificed many themes, plot lines and character dimensions and introduced a new terrible plot line in the last 5 minutes of the game. Bioware is simply to proud to admit that they simply messed up with the ending.

You make absolutely no sense. I think they pretty much are admitting they fucked up, and lots are disappointed at the lack of clarity, so they are providing them with some. If you don't like it, don't download it. It's that simple.

Again, we are not disappointed by the "lack of clarity." We are disappointed with the ending. Instead of seeking to "improve" upon a terrible ending, they should bite their tongue and provide an amazing set of endings that the series deserves, or if not, at the very least make an attempt to alleviate some of the plot holes / inconsistencies and, for the love of God, get rid of that damn space-child.

[ACID_FOX]

Exactly. They can clarify it all they want, it's still a shitty ending. That being said, I never expected them to change it, and I'm suprised they even caved in this much.

[ariich]

Presmuably you guys either haven't seen or are writing off the indoctrination theory?

Again, we are not disappointed by the "lack of clarity."

You personally, and some others, sure. But the majority of the complaints at the time were about the brevity and lack of clarity, and lack of personalisation. We are not saying that was EVERY complaint, we are saying that was most of the complaints. They're never going to please everyone.

We are disappointed with the ending. Instead of seeking to "improve" upon a terrible ending, they should bite their tongue and provide an amazing set of endings that the series deserves, or if not, at the very least make an attempt to alleviate some of the plot holes / inconsistencies and, for the love of God, get rid of that damn space-child.

Again I refer you to my above question about indoctrination.

[abydos]

Well, the only way the ending could be considered worse is if this theory is actually true. I take it as a desperate measures to try and make sense of the shitstorm that the last few minutes are.

[robwebster]

Carefully sidestepping round the ending, just for a second... (Don't worry, we can all go round in circles later!)

Anyone else more excited about the other free-for-two-years DLC pack that's on its way this very weekend? Batarians! Playable batarians! And geth! And krogan vanguards! Asari Justicars less interesting, but still. How neat is this?! And free, what's more. Classy stuff.

[abydos]

Yeah, the Geth Infiltrator should be sweet. Although  it would be a pain in the ass to unlock, with their shitty absolutely random system going on. Even on current premium spectre pack it's mostly crap that you get.

[robwebster]

Granted. Although, I won't pretend that - despite having done nothing whatsoever to earn it - I don't half feel smug lumbering around as a Krogan Sentinel, so you know; pros and cons. I've still yet to unlock a few classes, so irritation aplenty, but I've got one of each species now, so I'm less bothered than I was at the time.

Speaking of, what's everyone's favourite class/species on MP?

[Omega]

Presmuably you guys either haven't seen or are writing off the indoctrination theory?

Again, we are not disappointed by the "lack of clarity."

You personally, and some others, sure. But the majority of the complaints at the time were about the brevity and lack of clarity, and lack of personalisation. We are not saying that was EVERY complaint, we are saying that was most of the complaints. They're never going to please everyone.

We are disappointed with the ending. Instead of seeking to "improve" upon a terrible ending, they should bite their tongue and provide an amazing set of endings that the series deserves, or if not, at the very least make an attempt to alleviate some of the plot holes / inconsistencies and, for the love of God, get rid of that damn space-child.

Again I refer you to my above question about indoctrination.

Just think about it: when you try to salvage the whole series from the pitiful ending by postulating that Shepard was simply having a bad dream or was being indoctrinated, you know the ending was bad. People would rather believe that their entire playthoughs were simple delusions rather than accept the ending...

[ariich]

Wow, I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree, because you've clearly made your mind up and there's nothing anyone can say or suggest to change that.

I for one think the ending was mostly decent, and that the indoctrination makes a hell of a lot of sense and actually makes it quite brilliant. And I'm excited about the DLC which will provide further clarification or closure one way or the other. And I know I'm very much not alone in that.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

The reason I hated the ME3 ending so much was because it eradicated any desire I had to play the series again. If the DLC ends up being just an epilogue or something like that, then it won't matter much. The endings will still be pretty much the same regardless of what choices you made and have more plot holes than The Room.

[HarlequinForest]

Presmuably you guys either haven't seen or are writing off the indoctrination theory?

Again, we are not disappointed by the "lack of clarity."

You personally, and some others, sure. But the majority of the complaints at the time were about the brevity and lack of clarity, and lack of personalisation. We are not saying that was EVERY complaint, we are saying that was most of the complaints. They're never going to please everyone.

We are disappointed with the ending. Instead of seeking to "improve" upon a terrible ending, they should bite their tongue and provide an amazing set of endings that the series deserves, or if not, at the very least make an attempt to alleviate some of the plot holes / inconsistencies and, for the love of God, get rid of that damn space-child.

Again I refer you to my above question about indoctrination.

Just think about it: when you try to salvage the whole series from the pitiful ending by postulating that Shepard was simply having a bad dream or was being indoctrinated, you know the ending was bad. People would rather believe that their entire playthoughs were simple delusions rather than accept the ending...

It's not really that ridiculous.  A lot of the ME story revolves around some of the powerful figures being indoctrinated; the "delusions" have legitimacy behind them.  That said, I don't think that theory was Bioware's intention at all (although I think it would be pretty genius if it was), so I can't really respect them for only accidentally providing the pieces.  What I don't like about the ending is that it lacks any emotion punch at all, in my opinion.  I wanted something so powerful that it would make me want to play through the entire series again right away.  Also, Shepard is haunted by this little kid throughout the whole game, then, conveniently, it is explained at the very end.  It felt very forced to add him in at the last minute, and it was a, I don't know... cheesy(?) role for him anyways.  When he said, "I am the catalyst," I cringed.  Everything else about the ending was merely OK.

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

Really disappointed with the announced DLC. Who wants further "clarity" for a broken ending? I sure don't. Reflecting on the ending for about a month now, I've come to the conclusion that it really is just a terrible ending which sacrificed many themes, plot lines and character dimensions and introduced a new terrible plot line in the last 5 minutes of the game. Bioware is simply to proud to admit that they simply messed up with the ending.

You make absolutely no sense. I think they pretty much are admitting they fucked up, and lots are disappointed at the lack of clarity, so they are providing them with some. If you don't like it, don't download it. It's that simple.

Again, we are not disappointed by the "lack of clarity." We are disappointed with the ending. Instead of seeking to "improve" upon a terrible ending, they should bite their tongue and provide an amazing set of endings that the series deserves, or if not, at the very least make an attempt to alleviate some of the plot holes / inconsistencies and, for the love of God, get rid of that damn space-child.

Believe it or not, not everyone is you. But like ariich said, no use arguing with you.

[Omega]

Wow, I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree

DON'T CROSS THE CROOKED STEP

[Omega]

Believe it or not, not everyone is you.

Wait what? I'm pretty sure everyone is me.

[robwebster]

I don't know if this helps anyone, but --

https://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/11154234

-- one of the writers has commented on the ending. Off the record, and paraphrased, (and he's been on twitter to clarify that a lot of the paraphrases have a slightly more negative slant than intended) but he's said lots of interesting things. Clarified what's gone on in the writers' room. And though I liked the ending, it's made me feel a lot happier about the state of the galaxy post-Shepard.

[Omega]

I also can't help but feel that at least both the Rachni and Harbinger needed a much more pertinent role in Mass Effect 3.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Interesting read there. Lots explained. Perhaps if the epilogue ends up explaining all the stuff he mentioned, I might feel less horrible about the ME3 ending overall. It will also be a very good chance to see how choices affect stuff; for example, if you had all the races with you at the end, maybe the Mass Relays get rebuilt quicker or something.

[robwebster]

Yeah - really dig the Mass Relay idea! Though, I wouldn't honestly know where to begin with a sequel. Even with the explanations from the interview, it's too mad a universe, too far scorched for it to be a mantle I'd want to pick up. Writing the difference between destruction, control and synthesis, a universe that may or may not contain geth, quarians, synthetics - unenviable task. You'd need to pick up many, many years into the future. Let the ripples simmer down.

Wonder, though. I totally get why you're locked in as a human - there are enough choices as it is, and the narrative would morph beyond recognition if it were played from another species' perspective; but now that we've done Shepard's story... has anyone played Dragon Age? Where you can choose to be an elf, a dwarf, or a human? 'Cos I imagine a Mass Effect sequel would be set in an era where racial tension would've died down a little. Certainly humans wouldn't be the new kids on the block any more - especially not given that they've spent a third of the trilogy cementing the entire universe as their friends.

Which is a long-winded way of saying, given that BioWare now have precedent in that field, it'd be pretty plausible for a sequel to let you choose your species. Nothing too weird (or too potentially-extinct!) - I can't imagine they'd ever let you play SP as a geth or a drell or a volus - but I could totally imagine a game where you can choose between, say, asari biotics, salarian techs, turian soldiers or a human wildcard. Everyone would treat you slightly differently, but the basic story's the same.

But - irrelevant! I actually just came on here to announce that I'd unlocked the krogan vanguard. Please welcome to the fold - Urdnot Barry!

Is anyone still on multiplayer? Enjoying the new classes?

[Dark Castle]

I own Dragon Age Origins, but I don't really like it.  The combat is terrible IMO, and I don't like how traveling is handled whatsoever.

[robwebster]

Oh, totally. Particularly on combat; I get a grand total of no enjoyment whatsoever out of it. Press A and then... sit there! Story's fun, but nowhere near as immersive as the ME-verse. Dragon Age is a decent game, Mass Effect's one of the best. But I like the different races aspect, and I like that it's set a precedent; proven it's plausible.

I guess, too, of course, that part of the reason DA gets away with so many races is 'cos the player character doesn't have a voice actor, or much of a character past what you project on him/her. No VAs means you just have to script different reactions for the existing actors (which they'd be doing anyway) so it's dirt cheap, two VAs like Mass Effect 1-3 means recording a script twice over, but then being able to choose between the four council races would rack up... six voice actors or so? Excluding female salarians as they're non-combatants, and male asari 'cos they don't exist. All reading out an entire game's script, plus class-specific modifications. So, still a bit pie in the sky. But I'd certainly be considering it, if I were on the production team. Probably due to a mix up.

[XJDenton]

Play DA:O on PC on Hard difficulty.

[robwebster]

Oh, it's tricky enough, don't get me wrong! Harder than Mass Effect for sure - I ended up turning the difficulty down. It just feels really... uninvolved? Like I'm a spectator. I don't know. Just not a combat system I get on with. I like the assigning of points more than the combat, which is probably quite odd.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I'm enjoying the multiplayer quite a bit these days. It's really fun to play when you just want to relax for a bit. Right now I'm maxing out my turian sentinel.

[ariich]

I need to play a bit more of the multiplayer, I only played a few games to check it out and found it quite enjoyable. I've just had so much of my time taken up with other games like finishing Skyrim (well, the main quests anyway) and now starting on Fallout 3, that I haven't got round to it.

[robwebster]

Ohhhh, I got Skyrim today! Got to wait a little before playing it - just given Urdnot Barry his first spin, then I'll be watching the Apprentice, then Skyrim. Might make my character in the next 25 minutes. Just to get things started.

Incidentally, did well! Second on the leaderboard, top at the end of wave ten. They tried to kick me at the end, though, which baffled me a tad. I wouldn't usually mind - vanguards are unpopular - but there were two other vanguards in the lobby, I was there first, and I did quite well. Might've stumbled into a few KSes, but it was a tiny map with three vanguards, so... eh! Probably making room for a friend or something. Never got kicked, though, so threw me for a loop.

Fallout 3 is stupendous. You'll love it. Do prefer New Vegas a tad; more flexible, more choices, more sophisticated plot... but both are superb.

What classes are you both using?

[robwebster]

RIGHT! I don't know if anyone's gonna bite, but I'll extend the offer...

Operation: Exorcist

Allied Goal: Kill 1,000,000 Cerberus Phantoms
Squad Goal: Survive until extraction on any map and any enemy on Gold difficulty.

Operation Exorcist will run from 6:00PM PST, Friday April 27th until 5:00AM PST, Monday April 30th. Exorcist will be available on PC and Xbox 360 only.

Who fancies a stab at the squad goal? I've never dared venture into Gold, too terrified. I play for fun because it's a bit of a laugh, they play for keeps and kick you out if they don't like your class, loadout, or gamerscore - not my scene. I'd be terrified to move for fear of blemishing their perfect score.

But! It'd be a laugh with friendlier faces. Who fancies angling for a commendation pack this weekend? Xbox 360, Skype, couple of beers, plenty of reviving... anyone with me?

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I'm game. Gamertag is Kevin Martell (original, I know). My microphone is broken, though.

[Dimitrius]

I'd be down for it, though I've never survive more than 2-3 waves on gold.

Gamertag: DaDeadFenix (...I was 16, get off me!)

[robwebster]

Ace, one more and it's a party!

Xanadu: No worries on the headset, don't have one either. Will prob set up a Skype conference for if anyone's got mics in their computers, and if not then we can at least work out strategies between matches in this thread.

Dimitrius: You're ahead of me, not given it a go yet! Goodish at Silver, can usually get extraction pretty reliably as long as everyone has a rough idea of what they're doing... but we'll see how it goes.

[robwebster]

Right, I'm gonna sign in now, kick about some reapers for a little on a low difficulty. I'll add you both, and if you pop up, grand, and if you don't, that's fine, I can keep listening to podcasts.

I'll be the one with the self-deprecating gamertag that I'm surprised doesn't get me kicked more often. If anyone else fancies joining in, add someone or leave your gamertag or something!

EDIT: Argh. I'm getting server problems. Chronic for the last twenty minutes or so. This isn't rekindling my multiplayer love. >:E