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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: 7StringedBeast on January 04, 2010, 05:23:20 PM

Title: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: 7StringedBeast on January 04, 2010, 05:23:20 PM
I spun FII today for the first time in a while.  I have come to the conclusion that this is DT's most inconsistent album to me.  By this I mean that it has some of their best and worst songs all on the same album.  Nevertheless, the high points of this album make it so worth listening to.  Lines in the Sand alone is just a master piece song along with ToT.  And then there is Peruvian Skies, which never gets talked about at these forums one way or another.  I think it deserves recognition because its got a really cool intro riff and the song has a great buildup and great vocal parts.   An New Millennium is such a cool song.  Very original sounding.

Anna Lee moved me so much today for some reason.  I was singing along to it and I felt a huge well of emotions build up.  This song never had this affect on me before, but I have always loved this song.

I usually just skip over the songs I don't like such as You not Me. 

All in all, this album is really cool.  I just tend to skip a few songs.  Lines in the Sand and ToT definitely keep the album afloat though.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: LTE on January 04, 2010, 05:25:54 PM
I mostly agree with you. But I think the bootleg demos are a lot better.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: setrataeso on January 04, 2010, 05:33:18 PM
I agree with the inconsistancy comment.
I've grown to appreciate Peruvian Skies a lot more. And Lines, TOT, and Hells Kitchen are all epic.

On the other hand, you have Burning My Soul and You Not Me, which I dont think are awful, but are two of the least liked songs of DT's catalogue.

The album is very underrated, imo. Not enough people give it a decent chance.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: 7StringedBeast on January 04, 2010, 05:35:56 PM
I actually like Burning My Soul.  I mean the lyrics are laughable, but the song grooves pretty well.  Hell's Kitchen is such a cool intro to Lines. 

Also, the production of the album is pretty amazing.  The worst part about it is the really hollow snare sound.  Otherwise flawless. 
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: pianoman on January 04, 2010, 06:52:36 PM
Just finished listening to New Millennium for the fifth time, and I just cant get enough of the drum part at 5:41. That whole instrumental break is full of WIN!
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Global Laziness on January 04, 2010, 07:04:29 PM
Falling into Infinity has its typical strong songs: Lines in the Sand, Trial of Tears, Hell's Kitchen, and even New Millennium. It also has a number of weaker songs, such as You Not Me, Burning My Soul, and Peruvian Skies (say what you will, I'm really dislike Peruvian Skies). You just have to take it for what it is and enjoy its better songs. Frankly, I think Falling into Infinity would be a top-notch album if it looked a little more like this:

1.   New Millennium (8:20)
2.   Hollow Years (5:53)
3.   Hell’s Kitchen (4:16)
4.   Lines in the Sand (12:04)
5.   Just Let Me Breathe (5:28)
6.   Take Away My Pain (6:16)
7.   Speak to Me (6:10)
8.   Trial of Tears (13:04)

Total: 61:31

Obviously it's a bit shorter than the real album, but to me it's a lot stronger.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that the version of Take Away My Pain I would includes a saxophone solo, much like the one on Once in a LIVEtime.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Scurvy!Dreams on January 04, 2010, 07:10:01 PM
say what you will, I'm really dislike Peruvian Skies
Can't argue with you there.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on January 04, 2010, 07:12:50 PM
I actually like Burning My Soul.  I mean the lyrics are laughable, but the song grooves pretty well.

Totally. and the Demo is even better
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 04, 2010, 07:38:58 PM
I don't think it's really inconsistent. The only songs I consider bad are YNM and TAMP, and perhaps BMS, and I don't even hate them. I just think they're a bit bland. But considering how many songs are on the album, that still leaves a lot of greatness.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: skydivingninja on January 04, 2010, 10:19:35 PM
Without YNM and BMS, and with the demo version of TAMP, FII would have been great.  As of right now its a strong, underrated album with a few stinkers.  I can understand why they took out the demo songs though, I've been trying to make the "perfect" 1-disc FII with all my favorite demo songs and they don't seem to fit.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: 7StringedBeast on January 04, 2010, 10:49:04 PM
Don't forget about Anna Lee.  That song is really great.  Simple but really nice.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: YtseJamittaja on January 04, 2010, 11:26:58 PM
I agree with you. This happen to me too maybe 2 months ago. Now I actually like Take Away My pain and Anna Lee
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: yeshaberto on January 04, 2010, 11:53:58 PM
I guess I am going to have to give the demos a shot
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: KISS 76 on January 05, 2010, 03:06:58 AM
In hindsight maybe its easier for people to dog the album these days but you need to look at the album in relation to the time period it was released in & also remember that the band had only released 3 albums previously & had yet to have Jordan join the band & create the more familiar DT that we have these days... I loved the album when it was released after waiting so long after ACOS. Loved the album then & it still remains one of my favorites as the strong tracks more than make up for the so called weaker ones. Trial of tears sounds epic when added to the live set imo... Also, I really liked Derek's style & have always wondered how Scenes... would of turned out if he had stayed, not that I regret Jordan joining the band though.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Mladen on January 05, 2010, 04:42:54 AM
It's good, but still the least good in my opinion. Half of the tracks do nothing to me... I would've liked it better this way:

1. Raise the knife
2. Cover my eyes
3. Peruvian skies
4. Hollow years
5. Burnin' my soul
6. Hell's kitchen
7. Lines in the sand
8. Trial of tears

 :metal
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: antigoon on January 05, 2010, 10:48:53 AM
No re-listen needed for me, it's still my favorite Dream Theater album. Yeah, "You Not Me" and "Burning My Soul" are kinda meh, but I'll take those over some of the more unfavorable tracks from recent DT years any day.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Nic35 on January 05, 2010, 10:59:45 AM
It would have been awesome if the label would have agreed to put Metropolis pt. 2 on the album.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: tri.ad on January 05, 2010, 11:10:58 AM
FII is, imo, a very good album with some mediocre songs in it. I think many DT fans just like to throw shit at it because of three reasons (two bigger ones, one smaller one): 1. It sounds very unalike DT at some places (YNM, Anna Lee, TAMP), 2. They follow MP who has often expressed his dismay about FII and general and also particularly the songs that were significantly changed from the respective demo versions (which, from his point of view, is surely understandable at some points - the extent of them, however, is up to anyone's opinion), 3. The inclusion of guest musicians for LITS and particularly YNM.

That said, I don't consider myself part of it. In my fanboi phase, I digged every song of FII. Now, I think that it has indeed some weak spots, but it still offers a lot of greatness - especially TOT and LITS.

As for the demos, I would have added some of them in a heartbeat, while replacing the final versions, like You Or Me, The Way It Used To Be and Take Away My Pain. Some could have needed some re-working until the addition, like Speak To Me and Raise The Knife (see Score) and others would have been throw-away material (Where Are You Now?, Cover My Eyes (although I like the acoustic version of it)).

The best decision from the producer's side, though, was definitely the separation of the BMS instrumental section, now known as Hell's Kitchen.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: setrataeso on January 05, 2010, 11:55:02 AM
Am I the only one who lumps the FII demos with the actual album?
Like I can separate TWIUTB from anything on the album, and when I listen to the whole thing, its only the studio FII. But, I consider the demos all "part" of FII, which is a lot more then I can say for just about any other demos on any other album from any other band.
And I like that. It gives a sense of purpose to FII. You hear the album and think "Oh wow. This is really different. Must have been the label's fault, with their outside influences and whatnot." Then you hear the untouched demos, and think "I guess this really is the direction DT wanted to take on FII".

And people who haven't heard the demos for FII should really get on that. You'll probably enjoy them a great deal.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: ACID_FOX on January 05, 2010, 01:02:02 PM
Trail of Tears is an absolutley beautiful song, and definatley one of my favourites by DT.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: LTE on January 05, 2010, 02:39:39 PM
Am I the only one who lumps the FII demos with the actual album?


I don't lump the albums, but I have probably listened to the demos as many times as the actual release.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: setrataeso on January 05, 2010, 03:02:26 PM
Trail of Tears is an absolutley beautiful song, and definatley one of my favourites by DT.

I'm not crazy about that song.

I much prefer Trial of Tears.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: bosk1 on January 05, 2010, 03:10:08 PM
An New Millennium is such a cool song.  Very original sounding.

This is actually kinda funny given that it is technically the least original song on the album.  You do know that it was created from re-worked parts of Caught In A Web, right?
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: LTE on January 05, 2010, 03:14:39 PM
Trail of Tears is an absolutley beautiful song, and definatley one of my favourites by DT.

I'm not crazy about that song.

I much prefer Trial of Tears.

Eric Johnson has a GREAT song called Trail of Tears....
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: LTE on January 05, 2010, 03:15:16 PM
An New Millennium is such a cool song.  Very original sounding.

This is actually kinda funny given that it is technically the least original song on the album.  You do know that it was created from re-worked parts of Caught In A Web, right?

Whats the story on that?

Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Samsara on January 05, 2010, 03:21:04 PM
An New Millennium is such a cool song.  Very original sounding.

This is actually kinda funny given that it is technically the least original song on the album.  You do know that it was created from re-worked parts of Caught In A Web, right?

Whats the story on that?



I didn't know this either. Elaborate or provide link to more info, please. :)
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: bosk1 on January 05, 2010, 03:24:37 PM
Can't remember of the entire story is all in one place, or if it is bits and pieces here and there, but I believe the details are in the liner notes for the FII demos and the Old Bridge show.  There is probably a good deal on it in the book as well.  But essentially, during the extensive writing and re-writing process for FII, DT took a break to do a short string of shows (generally referred to as the "fix for '96" shows) to get out and reconnect with the fans.  During that time, they played some of the yet-to-be-released FII songs as well as some reworked older tunes.  One of the reworked tunes was CIAW, which was slowed down and made to sound more "industrial" in parts.  These reworked parts eventually were further reworked in the subsequent FII sessions and became their own song:  New Millenium.  Caught In A New Millenium on LSFNY is basically a mashup of NM and the '96 version of CIAW.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Samsara on January 05, 2010, 03:38:22 PM
Can't remember of the entire story is all in one place, or if it is bits and pieces here and there, but I believe the details are in the liner notes for the FII demos and the Old Bridge show.  There is probably a good deal on it in the book as well.  But essentially, during the extensive writing and re-writing process for FII, DT took a break to do a short string of shows (generally referred to as the "fix for '96" shows) to get out and reconnect with the fans.  During that time, they played some of the yet-to-be-released FII songs as well as some reworked older tunes.  One of the reworked tunes was CIAW, which was slowed down and made to sound more "industrial" in parts.  These reworked parts eventually were further reworked in the subsequent FII sessions and became their own song:  New Millenium.  Caught In A New Millenium on LSFNY is basically a mashup of NM and the '96 version of CIAW.

Ah ha. I remember now...I remember how it started...whoops, wrong band.

But my memory on this is returning.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Jamariquay on January 05, 2010, 04:32:46 PM
My ideal one-disc FII would look like:

1. New Millennium
2. The Way It Used To Be
3. Peruvian Skies
4. Hell's Kitchen
5. Lines In The Sand
6. Hollow Years
7. Raise The Knife
8. Speak To Me
9. Trial Of Tears

That'd be pretty keen, in my book. You Or Me would also fit in well there.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: skydivingninja on January 05, 2010, 05:49:52 PM
My ideal one-disc FII would look like:

1. New Millennium
2. The Way It Used To Be
3. Peruvian Skies
4. Hell's Kitchen
5. Lines In The Sand
6. Hollow Years
7. Raise The Knife
8. Speak To Me
9. Trial Of Tears

Thats probably the best 1-disc FII I've seen...brb, gonna listen and try it out.

EDIT: just putting this together, it cuts out JLMB, the demo version of TAMP...GAAAAH!  Dammit DT!
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 05, 2010, 07:27:55 PM
Am I the only one who lumps the FII demos with the actual album?

Am I the only one who doesn't? I really don't include them with FII, just as I don't include the cut tracks with IaW or Awake. There are some good songs among them of course, but overall I feel there was a good reason many of them were cut, and personally they would have weakened the album for me, whether it was a double disc, or if they'd replaced tracks on FII. That's not to say they're bad, but I'm a big fan of FII, and prefer most of what's on there to what isn't.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: SystematicThought on January 05, 2010, 08:24:37 PM
I actually like it. I enjoy a lot of the music on it.

However, I was just listening to Cover My Eyes. I don't understand why they would have that one cut. That one actually sounds quite mainstream and might have done well
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: setrataeso on January 05, 2010, 10:05:44 PM
Am I the only one who lumps the FII demos with the actual album?

Am I the only one who doesn't? I really don't include them with FII, just as I don't include the cut tracks with IaW or Awake. There are some good songs among them of course, but overall I feel there was a good reason many of them were cut, and personally they would have weakened the album for me, whether it was a double disc, or if they'd replaced tracks on FII. That's not to say they're bad, but I'm a big fan of FII, and prefer most of what's on there to what isn't.

Oh no, I agree that they aren't superior to the album songs (though many seem to believe otherwise).
I just more meant that there was a clear connection between the songs on and off of the album, sound-wise. And that DT still had control over their sound, as evident by the demos (which, from what I know, have gone untouched by outside influences). Because of the similar sound, I find both the album and the demos feel like one cohesive (or non-cohesive, depending on your pov) piece of work.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 05, 2010, 10:20:57 PM
Am I the only one who lumps the FII demos with the actual album?

Am I the only one who doesn't? I really don't include them with FII, just as I don't include the cut tracks with IaW or Awake. There are some good songs among them of course, but overall I feel there was a good reason many of them were cut, and personally they would have weakened the album for me, whether it was a double disc, or if they'd replaced tracks on FII. That's not to say they're bad, but I'm a big fan of FII, and prefer most of what's on there to what isn't.

Oh no, I agree that they aren't superior to the album songs (though many seem to believe otherwise).
I just more meant that there was a clear connection between the songs on and off of the album, sound-wise. And that DT still had control over their sound, as evident by the demos (which, from what I know, have gone untouched by outside influences). Because of the similar sound, I find both the album and the demos feel like one cohesive (or non-cohesive, depending on your pov) piece of work.

I think that a contributing factor to my dislike of a few songs on FII is because they make the album feel less cohesive. FII is a fairly varied album, but songs like YNM cross the line of straying too far I think, and I think that some people who don't like the album have a similar problem, but obviously feel that more songs cross this subjective line. And with that in mind, I think that some of the cut songs would contribute to breaking the flow of the album further, rather than improving it.
By itself, a song like Cover My Eyes is a well constructed little pop rock song, and I enjoy it, and although I prefer it to a song like YNM, I think it would break the flow of the album more than YNM does.
The cut songs aren't bad, but I just don't think that adding any of them would really improve what I already consider to be a really strong album, and I don't think it's a huge loss that they didn't make the cut.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: j on January 06, 2010, 12:16:42 AM
I agree that FII is already a really strong album, but with a few tweaks, it could have been even better.  As it stands, I rank it 4th or 5th; in its "ideal" form (IMO), it would sit 2nd or 3rd.

I mean I don't see why you'd prefer leaving YNM on the album when you could literally swap it out with one of the better demos and cut the album's primary flaw right there.

-J
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 06, 2010, 12:20:32 AM
I don't think any of the other demos that could fit on the album would improve it. I'd actually rather they just cut it altogether. The album is long enough without the extra track.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: j on January 06, 2010, 01:15:10 AM
Ah, I see.  I guess I just enjoy a few of the demos enough that I'd have liked to have them on the album.  Length isn't really an issue for me.  *obligatory penis joke*

-J
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: bosk1 on January 06, 2010, 09:18:11 AM
I mostly prefer the album as it is, but if I were in charge back then, I would have made a few changes.  I would definitely drop YNM and replace it with Raise the Knife.  I would also use the demo version of TAMP instead of the final version.  I would also be tempted to pull Hollow Years in favor of Speak To Me, as I personally feel that would be an improvement.  But I know most would disagree with that latter change, so I'd be fine with only the first two.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: TAC on January 06, 2010, 09:21:18 AM
  I would also use the demo version of TAMP instead of the final version. 
Absolutely. Plus instead of singing that final chorus, I thought it would've been far more powerful to have that section without vocals.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Samsara on January 06, 2010, 09:44:53 AM
I think FII is fine the way it is. I think it was a very smart move to separate "Hell's Kitchen" from "Burning My Soul," which if DT had left it in there, it would have really mucked up the song.

As for other changes, there are spots in some of the demos I like a little better, but not enough to really change anything (a couple of those points about the demo of Take Away My Pain I agree with).

Then again, I'm in the minority as I think "You Not Me" is much better on the album than the demo version. MP and crew may not like what was done to it, but frankly, it made it a better overall song and it was a popular single, at least home on Long Island.

In regard to the unreleased tracks, "Raise the Knife" and "Speak to Me" are favorites...but they are a bit too "dark" in my opinion for inclusion. I would have done it anyway, if I was in charge, but I can see why they were left off.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: 7StringedBeast on January 06, 2010, 07:08:01 PM
I had no idea that New Millenium was created out of old parts from CIAW.  I guess that explains the Live Scenes mashup.  Either way, I still think New Millenium is pretty original sounding.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: KevShmev on January 06, 2010, 10:24:52 PM
I had no idea that New Millenium was created out of old parts from CIAW.  I guess that explains the Live Scenes mashup.  Either way, I still think New Millenium is pretty original sounding.

Yeah, just because it might have come from another DT song in its rough stages doesn't mean it is unoriginal.  I mean, the band still wrote it back when originality was something that really came across in their music.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: AwakeFromOctavarium on January 07, 2010, 07:45:36 AM
FII sucks.

Nah, I'm kidding.
I think FII songs are a lot bluesier compared to songs from their previous albums, and they are relatively slow.
Relatively slow, which made me put this album aside. I'm not a fan of slow music, only listening to them when
my mood is set. But of course, there are some good songs here, though I won't call them DT's best.

1. New Millennium
Sure the intro makes you go WTF but the whole song is really cool, and the instrumental at the end is quite bloody.
2. Lines In The Sand
Great melody and consistent song.
3. Just Let Me Breathe
I always liked James testing out new style of vocal, and this song was really catchy for me when I heard it. The first line
of the chorus is really unforgettable.
4. Trial of Tears
Very dynamic song. It's slow but it still attracted my ears. Listening to this song kinda reminds me of Lifting Shadows, Carpe Diem
and some of Scenes songs.

Just a few but good songs. And well, FII isn't much of a strong album actually. Just unique.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: robwebster on January 07, 2010, 08:57:17 AM
I had no idea that New Millenium was created out of old parts from CIAW.  I guess that explains the Live Scenes mashup.  Either way, I still think New Millenium is pretty original sounding.
I think New Millennium is one of those songs which is so original I really couldn't affix a genre to it if I tried. It's bizarre and unique and unpredictable and all-round fantastic. I want to call it a prog-funk odyssey or something wanktacular like that, but I don't feel it does it even a shred of justice. It's just... New Millennium!
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 07, 2010, 10:54:31 AM
I mostly prefer the album as it is, but if I were in charge back then, I would have made a few changes.  I would definitely drop YNM and replace it with Raise the Knife.  I would also use the demo version of TAMP instead of the final version.  I would also be tempted to pull Hollow Years in favor of Speak To Me, as I personally feel that would be an improvement. 
All of this, without question.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: LTE on January 07, 2010, 11:52:58 AM


1. New Millennium
Sure the intro makes you go WTF but the whole song is really cool, and the instrumental at the end is quite bloody.


It has never made me go WTF.
That song is truly "progressive", mixing many different genres and textures.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Mebert78 on January 07, 2010, 12:14:11 PM
I mostly prefer the album as it is, but if I were in charge back then, I would have made a few changes.  I would definitely drop YNM and replace it with Raise the Knife.  I would also use the demo version of TAMP instead of the final version.  I would also be tempted to pull Hollow Years in favor of Speak To Me, as I personally feel that would be an improvement.  
All of this, without question.

Eh, to be honest "Raise the Knife" is a big turn off because of the lyrics.  Yes, I'm a Kevin fan so maybe that's part of it.  But outside of the 12-step songs, MP has a tendency to write lyrics where he lashes out at people that he feels have done him wrong - whether it's Kevin, former managers, his step father, other musicians, or fans in "Never Enough."  JP does it sometimes like in "As I Am" but he camoflauges the true meaning a little better.  That whole sour-grapes approach to MP lyrics is kinda annoying, IMO, and ruins some songs for me - including "Raise the Knife."
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Samsara on January 07, 2010, 02:21:37 PM
You know, I re-listened to "You OR Me" this morning, and I like it better than I once did. I still stand by my opinion that "You NOT Me" is a better song, but "You OR Me" is much more interesting, sonically, even if the officially released "You NOT Me" is a better flowing tune.

Shame on me for not reading up on the song, but I never paid attention to the fact "Raise the Knife" was about Kevin Moore. Now singing the song to myself, I clearly get the connection. Never dawned on me. DOH!  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Global Laziness on January 07, 2010, 05:12:11 PM
I mostly prefer the album as it is, but if I were in charge back then, I would have made a few changes.  I would definitely drop YNM and replace it with Raise the Knife.  I would also use the demo version of TAMP instead of the final version.  I would also be tempted to pull Hollow Years in favor of Speak To Me, as I personally feel that would be an improvement.  
All of this, without question.

Eh, to be honest "Raise the Knife" is a big turn off because of the lyrics.  Yes, I'm a Kevin fan so maybe that's part of it.  But outside of the 12-step songs, MP has a tendency to write lyrics where he lashes out at people that he feels have done him wrong - whether it's Kevin, former managers, his step father, other musicians, or fans in "Never Enough."  JP does it sometimes like in "As I Am" but he camoflauges the true meaning a little better.  That whole sour-grapes approach to MP lyrics is kinda annoying, IMO, and ruins some songs for me - including "Raise the Knife."

Wow, call me crazy but I had no idea that Raise the Knife was about Kevin Moore.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: robwebster on January 07, 2010, 07:05:00 PM
It's not all about Kevin Moore. I think one verse is about a bloke called Jim Pitulski? Where Mike feels bad that he had to throw him out as a manager, but he had no choice or something. "But then I turned my back on you, my friend," etc. I can't remember the details, pretty sure he was their manager for a while though. There's a few verses about different people.

But yeah, one or two are almost certainly about Kevin Moore.


Weird thought, wonder what the people who've never heard Raise the Knife reckon to this discussion.

Then again, probably aren't many of those since Score came out. Still, I kinda forget it's one of those little hidden gems, tucked away from the rest of the catalogue. Probably a testament to what a good song it is.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 07, 2010, 08:16:17 PM
I never realized it was about KM. Seems obscured enough to me. I think you really have to be looking too hard to get beat up over the lyrics.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 07, 2010, 09:54:16 PM
How come so many of you didn't know that some of the RTK lyrics were about KM?  That's common knowledge, guys.

But I don't understand how that can make you not like the song.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 07, 2010, 10:05:49 PM
Well I knew the lyrics were about KM, but only because people here had said it. From the lyrics alone, there's really no giveaway.
There's only one verse that even comes close to being obvious, and even that isn't remotely specific. I think it's silly to think the lyrics ruin the song considering they're mostly quite vague, unlike the other example of NE. They're every bit as camouflaged as something like As I Am, and I can't imagine anyone getting worked up over them.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: LCArenas on January 08, 2010, 08:26:45 PM
Trial of Tears is a really good song. This would be a good FII for me:

1. Raise the Knife (11:30)
2. New Millennium (8:20)
3. Speak to Me (5:51)
4. Burning My Soul -Demo Version- (8:35)
5. Take Away My Pain -Demo Version- (6:47)
6. Lines in the Sand (12:05)
7. Anna Lee (6:10)
8. Trial of Tears (12:15)

Trail of Tears is an absolutley beautiful song, and definatley one of my favourites by DT.

I'm not crazy about that song.

I much prefer Trial of Tears.

Eric Johnson has a GREAT song called Trail of Tears....
Don't forget Testament's Trail of Tears, their best ballad in my opinion.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: KevShmev on January 09, 2010, 12:13:22 PM
I liked "Raise the Knife" long before I knew that the one verse was about Kevin Moore, and looking at it now, those lyrics are rather silly, but they don't hinder my enjoyment of the song.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Mebert78 on February 22, 2010, 12:55:37 PM
I like FII.  However, at the the same time there are a few elements that gave it a non-DT feel to me when it was released.  It may sound stupid, but the non-use of the DT font on the cover as well as the cover artwork really affected my view before I even heard a note.  DT had abandoned their their trademark logo.  It felt like Metallica when they cut their hair for the Load photo and didn't use their standard Metallica font.  DT also used an actual photo of real people on the cover, as oppose to their fantastical dream-like illustrations of I&W and Awake.  It was like they were ditching their winning formula -- and, like I said, that was before I heard a note.

The music to me is good.  The packaging doesn't feel like DT.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Orbert on February 22, 2010, 03:59:42 PM
I guess I'm in the minority here in that I like Falling Into Infinity a lot, and just as it is.  As much as I like DT, I tend not to dig around and find non-album tracks, bootlegs, etc. of any band, so all this talk about the demos and "Raise the Knife" and such goes whooshing past me.  I've heard "You Or Me" and the other stuff; I probably still have them somewhere, but I don't lump them in with the official release.  They're with "Other DT Stuff".

I got turned on to DT shortly after A Change of Seasons, and grabbed Images and Words and Awake, but FII was the first DT album I picked up when it was released.  That may be part of the reason why I'm fine with it the way it is.  At the time, it's all there was anyway.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: antigoon on February 22, 2010, 04:33:09 PM
So yeah, Falling Into Infinity is still my favorite DT album. Are Images & Words and Awake "better" albums? Probably, but Falling Into Infinity is just so much fun. :metal

AND IT SOUNDS SO GOOD.

Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 22, 2010, 08:56:22 PM
I like FII.  However, at the the same time there are a few elements that gave it a non-DT feel to me when it was released.  It may sound stupid, but the non-use of the DT font on the cover as well as the cover artwork really affected my view before I even heard a note.  DT had abandoned their their trademark logo.  It felt like Metallica when they cut their hair for the Load photo and didn't use their standard Metallica font.  DT also used an actual photo of real people on the cover, as oppose to their fantastical dream-like illustrations of I&W and Awake.  It was like they were ditching their winning formula -- and, like I said, that was before I heard a note.

The music to me is good.  The packaging doesn't feel like DT.

I hate the early style of album cover (same with BCASL), so I'm glad they finally changed it up. It's one of their better covers. No excuse on the DT logo though. I thought I was the only one who got a Metallica - Load vibe from that :lol
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: contest_sanity on February 22, 2010, 10:54:07 PM
I like FII.  However, at the the same time there are a few elements that gave it a non-DT feel to me when it was released.  It may sound stupid, but the non-use of the DT font on the cover as well as the cover artwork really affected my view before I even heard a note.  DT had abandoned their their trademark logo.  It felt like Metallica when they cut their hair for the Load photo and didn't use their standard Metallica font.  DT also used an actual photo of real people on the cover, as oppose to their fantastical dream-like illustrations of I&W and Awake.  It was like they were ditching their winning formula -- and, like I said, that was before I heard a note.

The music to me is good.  The packaging doesn't feel like DT.

I hate the early style of album cover (same with BCASL), so I'm glad they finally changed it up. It's one of their better covers. No excuse on the DT logo though. I thought I was the only one who got a Metallica - Load vibe from that :lol

Cool comparison between Load and FII, especially in regards to "image" and the changing of fonts, etc.  What's also interesting, though, is that DT "abandoned" their previous style because the record company basically forced them to, while, Metallica, on the other hand, were one of the biggest bands in the world when they decided to change things up with Load.  That's why I never understood the charge of them "selling out" with that album.  They were already global rock stars after The Black Album, so why would they "sell out" on their next album?

 
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Perpetual Change on February 23, 2010, 07:14:08 AM
I had no idea that New Millenium was created out of old parts from CIAW.  I guess that explains the Live Scenes mashup.  Either way, I still think New Millenium is pretty original sounding.

Yeah, just because it might have come from another DT song in its rough stages doesn't mean it is unoriginal.  I mean, the band still wrote it back when originality was something that really came across in their music.

Why don't you like them?  Because you think they're bad, or because they're about someone you like?

I can understand the latter, but not the former.  Those are probably the best angry lyrics DT have ever written.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Dream Team on February 23, 2010, 07:27:43 AM
I never realized it was about KM. Seems obscured enough to me. I think you really have to be looking too hard to get beat up over the lyrics.

Yeah, you'd really have to be fanatical about KM to get your panties in a twist about those lyrics. He's not being "attacked" by any stretch of the imagination.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: robwebster on February 23, 2010, 09:27:59 AM
I hate the early style of album cover (same with BCASL), so I'm glad they finally changed it up.
Once again, controversial statement I agree with! Hate's too strong a word - but they look really cluttered.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 23, 2010, 09:33:15 AM
I hate the early style of album cover (same with BCASL), so I'm glad they finally changed it up.
Once again, controversial statement I agree with! Hate's too strong a word - but they look really cluttered.

You're right, hate is such a strong word. But aside from WDADU, the covers that follow that style are easily my least favourite from DT.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Samsara on February 23, 2010, 10:01:44 AM
Listened to "Lines in the Sand" on the way into the office this morning. But my wife and I really hear a Scott Rockenfield influence on Portnoy's drumming in that tune. Anyone familiar enough with the original Queensryche to also hear that?

MP wrote the lyrics to LitS, correct?
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: KevShmev on February 23, 2010, 10:03:13 AM
Listened to "Lines in the Sand" on the way into the office this morning. But my wife and I really hear a Scott Rockenfield influence on Portnoy's drumming in that tune. Anyone familiar enough with the original Queensryche to also hear that?

Don't hear it at all.  But you diehard QR fans are an odd bunch sometimes, so yeah. :lol
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 23, 2010, 10:04:12 AM
Listened to "Lines in the Sand" on the way into the office this morning. But my wife and I really hear a Scott Rockenfield influence on Portnoy's drumming in that tune. Anyone familiar enough with the original Queensryche to also hear that?

MP wrote the lyrics to LitS, correct?

Petrucci, I think.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 23, 2010, 10:10:49 AM
Listened to "Lines in the Sand" on the way into the office this morning. But my wife and I really hear a Scott Rockenfield influence on Portnoy's drumming in that tune. Anyone familiar enough with the original Queensryche to also hear that?
Not that I can tell, but I guess it's possible.

MP wrote the lyrics to LitS, correct?
No, it was Petrucci.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Zydar on February 23, 2010, 10:12:09 AM
Yeah I think MP only wrote the lyrics for BMS, NM and JLMB on that album.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: The Letter M on February 23, 2010, 10:38:01 AM
FII is a pretty good album, IMO, and I've listened to it SEVERAL ways... of course, there's the album itself, as released with all 11 tracks. And of course there's the FII Demos, which include all the songs as the band had originally written them (I particularly enjoy "Take Away My Pain" and "Anna Lee" here, as well as "Lines In The Sand").

I have also created a 2-CD set of the album using the officially released tracks, some of the FII demos, and other versions of the songs:
1. Raise The Knife (Cleaning Out The Closet)
2. Where Are You Now? (COTC)
3. Take Away My Pain (FII, or FII Demos - I've used both versions)
4. You Or Me (Hollow Years single)
5. Hollow Years (Falling Into Infinity album)
6. Burning My Soul (FII)
7. Hell's Kitchen (FII)
8. Lines In The Sand (FII)

1. New Millennium (FII)
2. Cover My Eyes (COTC)
3. Peruvian Skies (FII)
4. Speak To Me (COTC)
5. Just Let Me Breathe (FII)
6. The Way It Used To Be (COTC)
7. Anna Lee (FII)
8. Trial Of Tears (FII)

I keep hoping for a day when the band plays all their FII-era material for a special concert... maybe next year for it's 15th anniversary?  :lol

-Marc.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Chino on February 23, 2010, 11:38:05 AM
I could never understand all the hate for FII. I rather enjoy the album.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Samsara on February 23, 2010, 04:38:36 PM
FII is a pretty good album, IMO, and I've listened to it SEVERAL ways... of course, there's the album itself, as released with all 11 tracks. And of course there's the FII Demos, which include all the songs as the band had originally written them (I particularly enjoy "Take Away My Pain" and "Anna Lee" here, as well as "Lines In The Sand").

I have also created a 2-CD set of the album using the officially released tracks, some of the FII demos, and other versions of the songs:
1. Raise The Knife (Cleaning Out The Closet)
2. Where Are You Now? (COTC)
3. Take Away My Pain (FII, or FII Demos - I've used both versions)
4. You Or Me (Hollow Years single)
5. Hollow Years (Falling Into Infinity album)
6. Burning My Soul (FII)
7. Hell's Kitchen (FII)
8. Lines In The Sand (FII)

1. New Millennium (FII)
2. Cover My Eyes (COTC)
3. Peruvian Skies (FII)
4. Speak To Me (COTC)
5. Just Let Me Breathe (FII)
6. The Way It Used To Be (COTC)
7. Anna Lee (FII)
8. Trial Of Tears (FII)

I keep hoping for a day when the band plays all their FII-era material for a special concert... maybe next year for it's 15th anniversary?  :lol

-Marc.

Marc - I'd love for them to do that, but heh, I highly doubt it'll ever happen.  :(
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: tri.ad on February 23, 2010, 11:55:57 PM
I agree with Samsära. DT have only played - apart from SFAM and TOT - their first and their breakthrough album in their entirety. They already skipped Awake, so I really don't think that playing FII is something we can look forward to.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: ZKX-2099 on February 24, 2010, 12:20:00 AM
DT had abandoned their their trademark logo.

The Majesty symbol is still on the cover...  :huh:
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: tri.ad on February 24, 2010, 12:24:14 AM
DT had abandoned their their trademark logo.

The Majesty symbol is still on the cover...  :huh:

I think he's talking about the lettering of the band name.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: cyberdrummer on February 24, 2010, 02:19:36 AM
I agree with Samsära. DT have only played - apart from SFAM and TOT - their first and their breakthrough album in their entirety. They already skipped Awake, so I really don't think that playing FII is something we can look forward to.

And 8V.

But I agree, I can't see FII being played in full.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: contest_sanity on February 24, 2010, 05:50:50 AM
I agree with Samsära. DT have only played - apart from SFAM and TOT - their first and their breakthrough album in their entirety. They already skipped Awake, so I really don't think that playing FII is something we can look forward to.

And 8V.

But I agree, I can't see FII being played in full.

Well, and they'd also have to fly in Desmond Child to perform on YNM, Derek for the whole album, Doug Pinnock for LITS, and Kevin Moore for the encore: a dramatic interpretation of 'Raise The Knife' where MP chases him around the stage with a blade.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: bosk1 on February 24, 2010, 07:31:24 AM
I agree with Samsära. DT have only played - apart from SFAM and TOT - their first and their breakthrough album in their entirety. They already skipped Awake, so I really don't think that playing FII is something we can look forward to.

And 8V.

But I agree, I can't see FII being played in full.

So, in other words...they've played 5 of their 10 albums, in their entirety.  Yeah, they'er definitely not inclined to play full albums.  What are people thinking?  :lol
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Mebert78 on February 24, 2010, 08:49:50 AM
DT had abandoned their their trademark logo.

The Majesty symbol is still on the cover...  :huh:

I think he's talking about the lettering of the band name.

Yeah, i meant the lettering.  But it was the not just the lettering, it was the cover artwork.  The first two DT albums that had achieved such great success had that fantasy-type dream artwork accompanied by the majestic DT font.  But FII had abandoned that winning formula.  The guys with binoculars on the cover are actual guys that sat on pedestals, according to "Lifting Shadows."  It's a cool concept, but the artwork and font was such a departure from the two previous albums that it kinda gave me thr impression the band had changed their ways somehow before I even listened to a note.  It was a turn off.  And since it was around the time that Metallica released Load and did the same kinda thing with their artwork and font, my friends and I at the time were putting DT and Metallica in the same boat.  Looking back, FII is a good album to me.  But I'm just recalling what I felt at the time.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 24, 2010, 08:54:25 AM
The change in font I can definitely understand. The artwork not so much. Sticking to the exact same style of album artwork for three albums running would be wearing very thin (although Maiden and Megadeth made it work).
The font however is a consistent part of a band's identity, and is associated with the biggest change in Metallica's career, so that one would have thrown me off big time too. It always bugs me that it's the one DT album (excluding WDADU of course) that doesn't feature it. It deserved it!
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: TAC on February 24, 2010, 09:04:27 AM
The change in font I can definitely understand. The artwork not so much. Sticking to the exact same style of album artwork for three albums running would be wearing very thin (although Maiden and Megadeth made it work).
The font however is a consistent part of a band's identity, and is associated with the biggest change in Metallica's career, so that one would have thrown me off big time too. It always bugs me that it's the one DT album (excluding WDADU of course) that doesn't feature it. It deserved it!
As soon as I picked up the CD..without even hearing it..I looked at the font and got bad feelings about what was inside.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: contest_sanity on February 24, 2010, 09:20:04 AM
The change in font I can definitely understand. The artwork not so much. Sticking to the exact same style of album artwork for three albums running would be wearing very thin (although Maiden and Megadeth made it work).
The font however is a consistent part of a band's identity, and is associated with the biggest change in Metallica's career, so that one would have thrown me off big time too. It always bugs me that it's the one DT album (excluding WDADU of course) that doesn't feature it. It deserved it!
As soon as I picked up the CD..without even hearing it..I looked at the font and got bad feelings about what was inside.

I don't think I considered the font one bit when I picked up it up on its release day.  I was just thrilled to have some new DT, since FII was the first album to be released after I became a fan.  Concerning fonts in general, it seems like a metal/hard rock and progressive phenomenon.  I'm trying to think of bands in other genres and not much is coming to mind as far as the importance of font goes.  I'm sure I'm probably leaving out some glaringly obvious examples, but I assume those will be pointed out to me.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: LCArenas on February 25, 2010, 10:05:32 AM
Well, and they'd also have to fly in Desmond Child to perform on YNM, Derek for the whole album, Doug Pinnock for LITS, and Kevin Moore for the encore: a dramatic interpretation of 'Raise The Knife' where MP chases him around the stage with a blade.
:rollin :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: ACID_FOX on March 05, 2010, 08:44:47 AM
The more I listen to it, the more it starts to become my favourite DT album.


Awake better watch out  :P
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: chaossystem on July 26, 2014, 04:47:16 PM
I think this is one of their most UNDER-rated albums! Personally, I like variety, and this one has tons of it: Short, heavy "rockers" (just Let Me Breathe, Burning My Soul) Long "progressive epics" (Trial of Tears, lines in the Sand) Slighty "funky" tunes (You Not Me, New Millennium) Ballads (der-Hollow Years) What's noto like?
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Kotowboy on July 27, 2014, 12:13:08 PM
I haven't read the thread - just wanted to pitch in.

• Easily. Easily their best sounding album. Every instrument just sounds crystal clear , live and pure.

• Has some DT classics on. Lines In The Sand is probably my #2 favourite song after Octavarium.

• It is a bit poppy in places but the band had their hands tied a bit.

• Overall I prefer it to Awake easily.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Kotowboy on July 27, 2014, 12:14:13 PM
The change in font I can definitely understand. The artwork not so much. Sticking to the exact same style of album artwork for three albums running would be wearing very thin (although Maiden and Megadeth made it work).
The font however is a consistent part of a band's identity, and is associated with the biggest change in Metallica's career, so that one would have thrown me off big time too. It always bugs me that it's the one DT album (excluding WDADU of course) that doesn't feature it. It deserved it!

I found a picture of FII with the current DT logo and I use that picture for FII on my iTunes. :)
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: PwnsomeWin on July 27, 2014, 04:45:24 PM
I don't understand why this album isn't liked. Anna Lee is my second favorite DT ballad according to my rankings. Trial of Tears is great too, with that awesome solo leading into an epic ending. You Not Me is mediocre, but I like pretty much everything else.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Zook on July 27, 2014, 04:53:19 PM
I did a re-listen of FII a month or 2 ago, and I really like it now. Even the infamous cheesy wonky WTF songs.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Kotowboy on July 27, 2014, 04:54:57 PM
I really like New Millenium too.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Rodni Demental on July 27, 2014, 07:45:48 PM
More  :heart for New Millennium, absolutely excellent song. Perfect opener for the album.

Also, The Riff that comes in at 7:12 is completely badass. (it's also used in one of the verses or prechorus' or something whatever you call the bits in this song lol.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: ThatOneGuy2112 on July 27, 2014, 09:16:47 PM
New Millennium has always been a pretty OK song to me. I like the latter half of it a lot in particular in comparison to the first half.

FII in general has warmed up to me quite a bit since my first listen. Two classics were born out of it in Lines in the Sand and Trial of Tears, and it also has what I feel to be one of their best instrumentals in Hell's Kitchen. Hollows Years is actually an extremely moving ballad and Peruvian Skies is a great prog tune. My issue is only with how inconsistent the album is. It has some of their best stuff along with very sub-par tracks like You Not Me and Just Let Me Breathe. Thankfully, there are more ups than downs here for sure.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: 425 on July 27, 2014, 10:32:32 PM
I'm really growing to love Falling Into Infinity. I would say that it's now in my top 3. Definitely behind IAW, my number one. I'm not sure if it would be ahead or behind ADTOE. But it's a really fantastic album.

It's definitely a different thing than DT's other albums. It sounds like no other, more so than a lot of the band's other albums. FII is way groovier and jazzier than anything DT wrote before or since, and I really enjoy that. Also, while I love Kevin and Jordan and wouldn't trade any of their work on any of the albums they made with DT, Derek's playing on this album has a lot of personality and really makes it stand out for me.

I've read through this thread, which is several years old, and one major topic of discussion is about the role of the demo tracks in their association with the album. I really just don't associate them with the album at all. Personally, as a person who can't help but get bothered about audio quality, I can't really listen to the demos because they don't sound good to me. So I've heard the demos maybe twice. The only cut track that I've heard well enough to even make a judgement about is Raise the Knife, because that song is on Score. I really like it, and I think it would have been great on FII, but since it wasn't on the album, I just view it as a standalone entity of sorts, like A Change of Seasons. And no, I don't wish it was on the album, because I don't really think there's anything on the album that could have been cut to allow RTK to be on the album while preserving the flow that I wouldn't have missed.

The best songs on the album are doubtlessly Lines in the Sand and Trial of Tears. These two kind-of-jazzy epics are both in my top 15 for DT, so you get the idea of how much I love them. Both of them are great compositions and have emotional weight. The same can be said about Hollow Years, which I think is one of the most underrated DT songs. It's truly a touching piece. These are just three of the album's 11 songs, but this is already 30 pretty much flawless minutes of music. On top of this, New Millennium is a great opener, and Peruvian Skies and Hell's Kitchen have proven to be growers for me. All three are also great tracks. Take Away My Pain is a weird one that I've grown to love for its weirdness. Burning My Soul and Just Let Me Breathe bring a different attitude to the record, but both are great songs despite some maybe slightly juvenile lyrical moments (though I think JLMB's lyrics are kinda kickass in their own way, especially for having the bravery to name-drop Nirvana in a negative context). Anna Lee is a decent ballad, but I think it's the album's weak link. It's definitely my least favorite track.

You Not Me is a good song. It's not a great song, but it's a good song. I actually really like the riffs and overall guitarwork in this song even though it's nothing like what we've come to expect from John Petrucci, and the vocal melodies are actually good and catchy. I really like this song! Then again, I'm one of those sinners who enjoys pop music, so I'm probably just wrong. :P
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 27, 2014, 11:33:44 PM
I really like New Millenium too.

I've dug that song ever since hearing it on Budokan. Definitely an underrated song, even if not one of their best.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: t-bone2112 on June 05, 2017, 10:33:29 PM
Yes, after this thread died 2 years ago, I'm digging it up.  So shoot me!

I only put this CD into my car about 2-3 times a year for a listen.  And every time I do, I ask myself "why don't you listen to this more often, idiot?"  It is such a great album!

There is really only one song I don't care for and usually consider skipping over it, Just Let Me Breathe.

The absolute awesomeness for me: Trial of Tears (one of my favorite DT songs), Hell's Kitchen, Peruvian Skies.  These are absolute classics for me.  All of the other songs I at least like.

Everyone hates Anna Lee, and today as I listened to it, i was reminded how much I really like it.

John Myung's bass tone is the best he ever recorded.  Love the sound of the drums, the guitar tone is great; overall I love the production.

I don't know people......great album!

YMMV
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Dublagent66 on June 06, 2017, 09:07:09 AM
I enjoy FII every time I listen to it.  The snare isn't my favorite, but still a very enjoyable and memorable listen.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: goo-goo on June 06, 2017, 12:09:51 PM
Interesting..I absolutely LOVE the snare sound on this album.

This was my 2nd DT album and I was shocked by it since it sounded so different from Images and Words (my 1st DT album). This has been the album that has aged the best for me. Would love to hear the FII demos with the same production as this album.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Cool Chris on June 06, 2017, 03:22:36 PM
When I bought this when it came out, I actually liked You Not Me more than half of the songs on the album. That, Peruvian Skies, Anna Lee, and ToT were the only ones I liked to any degree, which was hard coming off I&W and Awake which I loved front to back. Haven't listened to the CD in ages, and doing so likely won't change my opinion on it.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: mikeyd23 on June 07, 2017, 06:49:44 AM
This thread inspired a re-listen of FII for me on my way to work this morning. Great album, keeps getting better with age.

MP's cymbal work on this album is so, so good.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Peter Mc on June 07, 2017, 06:58:31 AM
I'm in the patchy release camp although the songs I'm not so keen on are the shorter ones so there's still a good hour of great music which is longer than most bands full album.

I love Lines In The Sand (with Hells Kitchen intro), Trial of Tears and Peruvian Skies and I like New Millennium quite a bit.  The rest I'm happy skip past.  Take Away My Pain should have been a great song but production totally kills any emotion in it for me and it just does nothing for me which is a shame considering what the song is about.  Even JP's solo, which can sometimes elevate a song, is not particularly memorable.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Dublagent66 on June 07, 2017, 09:06:53 AM
Gotta love threads about the good ole days.   :tup
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Scottjf8 on June 07, 2017, 11:10:21 AM
You not me and take away my pain just ruin this album for me.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Dublagent66 on June 07, 2017, 11:20:10 AM
Not the strongest tracks on the album.  Especially YNM but I can still appreciate them both to some extent.  I've always liked TAMP and losing a loved one recently gives that song a whole new level of meaning for me.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: jakepriest on June 07, 2017, 12:59:55 PM
You not me and take away my pain just ruin this album for me.

A New Millenium and Lines In The Sand do for me.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: rumborak on June 08, 2017, 09:00:05 AM
take away my pain just ruin this album for me.

 :huh:

That's like, maybe one of their best ballads to this date.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Dublagent66 on June 08, 2017, 09:04:41 AM
You not me and take away my pain just ruin this album for me.

A New Millenium and Lines In The Sand do for me.

Mind boggling.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: t-bone2112 on June 12, 2017, 10:21:28 AM
Whew......I'm glad I'm not the only one who loves this album.  Thanks to all of your positive responses!
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Samsara on June 14, 2017, 01:03:11 PM
Whew......I'm glad I'm not the only one who loves this album.  Thanks to all of your positive responses!

 :tup
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: w_marano on July 07, 2017, 07:41:44 AM
Interesting..I absolutely LOVE the snare sound on this album.

I love the drums sound and production on this record.
When the album was released, I was hoping for more technical songs, but loved to hear its melodic stuff. Songs like Hollow Years and Hell's Kitchen are still personal favorites.
And Yes... I loved You Not Me!  :hat
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Phoenix87x on July 07, 2017, 04:54:05 PM
I love FII

There is no other DT album that sounds like it and I think the songs sound great and are really well written. Different style, but maintaining quality.

With songs like Hell's kitchen, lines in the sand and trial of tears, this album is very cool.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: ChuckSteak on July 08, 2017, 12:08:36 PM
I think FII has the best production of any DT album.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Orbert on July 08, 2017, 09:23:58 PM
It does.  Still one of my favorite DT albums, and part of that is because it just sounds so good.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Samsara on July 10, 2017, 09:09:12 AM
It does.  Still one of my favorite DT albums, and part of that is because it just sounds so good.

Agreed completely. Kevin Shirley handled production and mixing, didn't he? A perfect choice.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Orbert on July 10, 2017, 11:47:41 AM
Yep.  Kevin Shirley.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: DragonAttack on July 10, 2017, 06:25:40 PM
Began following the band in '03, but did not purchase this until a couple weeks after seeing DT in '07 during the CiM tour (yup....I thought they were doing 'Xanada' as the first encore....).  It was like a breath of fresh air after the dark and heavy SC.  I listen to my edited version quite often for the simple reason that I like it, whether I'm driving the freeways or sitting at the computer.

Burning My Soul (makes for a much better album opener, baby) / Peruvian Skies / Hollow Years / Hell's Kitchen / Lines In The Sand / Take Away My Pain / Just Let Me Breathe / Trial of Tears


Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: theanalogkid7 on July 10, 2017, 10:07:58 PM
Man, I've had Take Away My Pain stuck in my head for a few days now.  I had to revisit FII because of that, and man, I really do love this album.  I need to check out the demos that everyone has mentioned.  Looks like it's not available anymore on Ytsejam Records, though, which is a bummer.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: lucky7 on August 25, 2017, 03:09:30 AM
I love this album, especially Hell's Kitchen .. I hope to God they play it for the Melbourne concert.
This probably gets a rotation in the car once a month.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: The Silent Cody on August 25, 2017, 04:21:48 AM
FII is very solid DT album, and underrated IMO by everyone who doesn't like DT. It sounds very good, probably the best DT sounding album. Sherinian work is incredible out there. But, to be honest I prefer You Not Me demos version than album one ;)
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: the_silent_man on August 25, 2017, 09:26:10 AM
When I first became a fan, around 2007, this was one of the weaker albums for me. As the years have gone by, I've come to appreciate it more and more. Yes, its less technical and less heavy, but it maintains the atmosphere they had in their old days and has some excellent, deep lyrics. Bar one or two songs, this album still has a lot of the "magic" and intrigue that is sadly missing from 90% of their post six degrees material, Imo (though I still enjoy them, of course). I would say its a better album that octavarium, sc, black clouds, s/t and astonishing.

I would probably place it 6th or 7th behind images, awake, scenes, six degrees, tot and adtoe. And while that seems low its just because of how brilliant those aforementioned albums are.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: The Walrus on August 25, 2017, 10:08:09 AM
I like FII more than SFAM.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: JediKnight1969 on August 25, 2017, 12:57:47 PM
My playlist:

01 - Trial of tears
02 - Hollow years
03 - You not me
04 - Take away my pain
05 - Just let me breathe
06 - New millennium
07 - Peruvian skies
08 - Burning my soul
09 - Hell's kitchen
10 - Lines in the sand
11 - Anna Lee
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: DougMasters on August 25, 2017, 01:06:20 PM
I like FII more than SFAM.

I find myself listening to FII more than Scenes, but if I were to be objective, I still have to say that Scenes is just a better album.

Maybe not by a country mile but more consistent, better recorded.... James doesn't sound like he is singing through a twin reverb in his bathroom....
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Orbert on August 25, 2017, 01:56:07 PM
Scenes is a more challenging listen, but more rewarding.  I don't listen to it as often, simply because I kinda feel like I "have to" listen to it all in one sitting, for obvious reasons.

At this point, Falling Into Infinity is probably my third or even second favorite Dream Theater album.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: DougMasters on August 25, 2017, 02:15:21 PM
Yeah, depending on what day of the week it may be my second or third favorite to.

I'll second that.

for all it's inconsistency there is a spontaneity to it that I just love.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Herrick on August 25, 2017, 09:17:56 PM
I didn't like this album when I first heard it in 2001 which is when I first got into Dream Theater. I was so into the band that I bought Live Scenes and I rarely buy live albums. I wanted moar and moar of the band so I bought any album I could find without even hearing any songs beforehand.

To steal the comparison someone else made in this thread years ago, Falling Into Infinity was like Metallica's Load: shockingly different. Every few years I'd give FII a half-hearted listen and never got into it. However a few months ago I listened to it and actually enjoyed it. I was very drunk at the time so I'll have to give it another listen while sober.

What's interesting in my case is that I can give a somewhat objective comparison between the official album and the demos since I don't have any emotional investment in either. I'm not very familiar with the studio version because I've only listened to it a handfull of times since 2001. I no longer strongly dislike the studio version and I've never heard the demo version in its entirety. So since I am off for a month I am going to listen to both versions a few times and see which one I like better. Should be a decent experiment.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: darkshade on August 28, 2017, 08:54:55 PM
I have to say, FII is no longer my least or second or third least favorite DT album. Those would be DT12 and The Astonishing (WDaDU is my least favorite due to lack of JLB and poor sound quality, but not because of the music itself.)
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: MirrorMask on September 23, 2017, 02:15:36 AM
Happy birthday to Falling Into Infinity!  :tup

20 exact years ago, 23th September 1997, this album was released.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Orbert on September 23, 2017, 07:42:04 AM
Yay!  Good excuse to re-listen to this one.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: ytserush on September 23, 2017, 07:41:44 PM
Oddly enough, I started thinking around now would be a perfect time to listen to this album.

Still remember the first time I listened to it after I walked into this out of the way independent record store I knew about (long since gone) and picked up a few promo copies I thought they were going to have about a week or so before the street date (back when you could do that stuff.)

I remember first reactions overall were pretty harsh. Sonically, it did sound good, but it was certainly not the Dream Theater I was expecting. Listened to it a lot that fall hoping things would change. Even the live show was compromised.

Not a fun time at all and Derek, possibly unfairly, was but one reason for that. Early reviews were less than stellar and the band reacted by going into damage control. Of course now we know most of that story.

I've since softened quite a bit on it except for Anna Lee. At no time did I ever think that was a good idea. Not against ballads though as I thought Hollow Years was absolutely killer, even then.

Should probably revisit it soon.  Can't believe its been 20 years.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: MirrorMask on September 24, 2017, 03:15:46 AM
Can't believe its been 20 years.

Indeed, I still remember the embryonic phase in which I was aware of DT but I was not yet a fan, and as a favor transcribing the lyrics from the booklet for a schoolmate... I don't know for sure the first DT song I ever heard but it may have been Hollow Years or Anna Lee - soft, simple pieces to not "scare me off too much" that my cousin, already a fan, would put at the end of cassette tapes (of the actual band I wanted to listen to) to finish up the space.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Evai on September 24, 2017, 04:11:09 AM
I don't like the title of this thread. It should either be 'Giving Falling Into Infinity a Re-listen' or 'Falling Into Infinity: A Re-listen'. I think the second one was what it was intended to sound like
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: MirrorMask on September 24, 2017, 04:25:53 AM
I don't like the title of this thread. It should either be 'Giving Falling Into Infinity a Re-listen' or 'Falling Into Infinity: A Re-listen'. I think the second one was what it was intended to sound like

The grammar is strong with this one  :hat
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: npiazza91 on October 16, 2017, 09:20:44 PM
This album is weird for me.  While I can see why it gets as much hate as it does, at the same time the praise it does get isn't why I like it.  I look at this album as the "pop" album for the band...and the "pop" songs they do have on here are really good in a "shut off your brain" type of way.  It's a nice change from their other material.  Hollow Years, Take Away My Pain, and Anna Lee are fantastic little songs that are catchy, emotional and just give you that great feeling that you get when you listen to Dream Theater.  However, Lines in the Sand and Trial of Tears...they never did anything for me.  Well...ToT is ok, but LitS I never liked, even to this day.  This album shines from it's smaller tracks.  The ones I mentioned plus Burning My Soul being an awesome "classic style" heavy metal track, New Millenium being a very quirky, very underrated track, and You Not Be being a guilty pleasure song...it's really not a bad album at all.  Dream Theater have certainly done worse.  I just wish I could appreciate the two epics more. 
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: CrimsonSunrise on October 18, 2017, 04:20:37 PM
I LOVE FII!!  Always have!  I seem to be in the severe minority also due to the fact that I thoroughly enjoy You Not Me, and don't care for Anna Lee.  For me the album would be perfect minus Anna Lee and Burning my Soul, and add Raise the Knife.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: ytserush on October 18, 2017, 04:53:48 PM
I LOVE FII!!  Always have!  I seem to be in the severe minority also due to the fact that I thoroughly enjoy You Not Me, and don't care for Anna Lee.  For me the album would be perfect minus Anna Lee and Burning my Soul, and add Raise the Knife.

Was never a fan of Anna Lee. Strangely enough, I like You Not Me despite Desmond Child being involved. Glad it was just a one-off.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Samsara on October 19, 2017, 02:26:30 PM
Just to be contrary, I love Anna Lee. I really do. It is very different from most of DT's stuff, and I find it to be in my top-five from FII.

For the life of me, I am not sure why Derek doesn't like it. I thought he wrote it. I could have sworn he said that in a couple interviews. A shame. I simply love it.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: KevShmev on October 21, 2017, 07:09:19 AM
Despite the obvious hiccups on this record, it still gave us some of the best songs ever (Peruvian Skies, Hell's Kitchen, Lines in the Sand and Trial of Tears), and while they have better mellow songs/ballads, all three on this record are really good.  People can ejaculate to the live version of Hollow Years all they want, but I've always loved the original.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Orbert on October 21, 2017, 08:45:11 AM
I've never liked the live versions of Hollow Years.  To me, the song is introspective and contemplative, but somehow when they play it live it becomes this huge triumphant thing.  It just doesn't feel right to me, given the song itself.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Evai on October 21, 2017, 09:15:23 AM
What is the purpose of an end-chorus key change if not to be triumphant
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Orbert on October 21, 2017, 01:24:44 PM
I know.  It's supposed to show how he's overcome it all, and the feeling becomes very positive.  And in the live setting, it just keeps going and going, and that's cool and all, but for whatever reason, it just doesn't work for me.  Maybe it's not set up properly.  The build-up feels a little formulaic, and it doesn't feel like we've "earned" such a big ending like that.  I think I might also like the mood that the verses had set up, all somber and stuff, more than the "triumphant" coda section that goes on and on.  It's all well done, sounds really nice; I can see why people like it.  I'm just not one of them.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Dublagent66 on October 24, 2017, 11:27:58 AM
There isn't much I don't like about this album.  :hat
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Phoenix87x on January 09, 2019, 04:58:03 PM
Been listening to Lines in the Sand heavily over the past few days. God damn do I love this song  :heart

And have been enjoying FII as a whole as well. Its got such a unique sound compared to all the other albums. 
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: porcacultor on January 09, 2019, 09:07:17 PM
It's funny, I read that MP hated the studio version for Take Away My Pain, but I've always loved it so much. The beachy arrangement may be a little jarring at first, but honestly I'm always moved by the track regardless.

Also, I know it's probably just because I'm more used to it, but it really bugged me when they played the longer version of Hollow Years in 2009/10 (can't remember)... I love how the "original" sounds just fine!
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: erciccio on January 10, 2019, 05:19:25 AM
Well, I tried the re-listen excercise and it was a bit painful... :blush

Even though "de gustibus non est disputandum", there are many tracks that are clearly not up to DT standards in terms of "quality" (I know it is not fully objective, but...)-
- You not Me, Burning my Soul, Take Away my Pain and Just Let me Breathe are in this category.
 - Peruvian skies is a poor attempt to mimic Metallica
- New Millenium has a cool intro but most of the song is almost cacophonic

Then there are a few songs that are ok-ish, but not DT-style:
- Anna Lee is a nice Elton John cover
- Hollow years in a nice

Luckily, there 3 real masterpieces..: Lines in the Sand, Hell's Kitchen and Trial of Tears.

But it's not (never) enough.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Setlist Scotty on January 10, 2019, 08:10:20 AM
It's funny, I read that MP hated the studio version for Take Away My Pain, but I've always loved it so much. The beachy arrangement may be a little jarring at first, but honestly I'm always moved by the track regardless.

Also, I know it's probably just because I'm more used to it, but it really bugged me when they played the longer version of Hollow Years in 2009/10 (can't remember)... I love how the "original" sounds just fine!
The bolded part is probably why I prefer the original versions of TAMP, BMS and ACoS, rather than the final (album) versions.

Conversely, I love the vast majority of the changes they made to older songs in the live setting, HY included. I'm of the mindset that if I want to hear it exactly as on the album, I'll listen to the album version.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Fritzinger on January 10, 2019, 08:43:04 AM
Highly underrated in my opinion. I love the slightly more concise/poppy Dream Theater. The guys HAVE the ability to write memorable but not silly melodies. And Lines and Trial Of Tears are masterpieces without a doubt.
Plus: BEST drum sound evar
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: porcacultor on January 10, 2019, 10:23:33 AM

The bolded part is probably why I prefer the original versions of TAMP, BMS and ACoS, rather than the final (album) versions.

Conversely, I love the vast majority of the changes they made to older songs in the live setting, HY included. I'm of the mindset that if I want to hear it exactly as on the album, I'll listen to the album version.

That's what started to hit me after writing this. I've probably attributed an emotional value to these versions I had access to, since I was listening to them in a specific context in my life and whatnot. Had I listened to the previous versions first, I probably would enjoy them more!

I still think the pre-chorus extension in HY is jarring, but again, different strokes.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: 7StringedBeast on January 11, 2019, 09:27:12 AM
I haven't posted here in years and years.  I decided to sign in today, to find a thread I started 9 years ago up at the top.  Crazy.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: pg1067 on January 11, 2019, 10:26:13 AM
I give this album a spin now and then to see if I find something I missed previously.  I listened to the first half or so yesterday.

New Millennium:  I can remember when I first got FII.  I was initially excited by the intro, which reminded me a bit of the intro to "Leave the Past Behind" by Fates Warning (the guitar intro after the vocal part that is the actual intro to the track).  But the track pretty much goes downhill after the first part of the intro.  The intro goes on too long, and the song never really finds its feet.  It's probably a bottom 10 DT track.

You Not Me:  This song is a pretty good DT-style "single."  It's far superior to "You or Me," but it's ultimately nothing special.

Peruvian Skies:  Meh.  It's ok.  The heavy part is better than the brooding part.  And it's odd to have two songs about child abuse on the album, and this is the lesser of the two.

Hollow Years:  I've always liked this song.  The best song to this point on the album.

Burning My Soul:  Not bad, but it's not so good that it makes me want to listen repeatedly.  Strong vocal performance by James.

Hell's Kitchen:  Great, well-crafted instrumental.  It's a nice contrast to songs like "The Dance of Eternity."

Lines in the Sand:  A pretty good song ruined by the chorus with the guest "singer."

My thoughts on the rest of the album coming in a day or two.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Samsara on January 11, 2019, 01:27:49 PM
I have always said that FII is one of my favorite DT records, and that hasn't changed in 2019. My favorite tracks from the record have remain the same for 22 years:

1. Trial of Tears
2. Lines in the Sand
3. Hell's Kitchen
4. Anna Lee

I think some of the changes made to the record (such as pulling Hell's Kitchen out of the middle of Burning My Soul) were absolutely the right calls. Even the modified "You Not Me" instead of the original "You Or Me." All those changes to the song make it a ton better. And the record, at least "You Not Me" got great airplay on Long Island when it was released. "Anna Lee," despite some of the criticism of it for being different, is a beautiful tune, much better than some of the other simpler ballads the band tried on subsequent records.

I completely understand the push back the album received from fans, particularly in light of MP's public complaints about it. I know everyone says they aren't influenced by MP's comments, but I think a lot of that is horseshit, honestly.  :lol  The moment MP slagged it a ton of people just jumped on that "hate on FII" bandwagon. It is what it is. We're all guilty of doing that for something here and there. But in this case, I think it really damaged the perception of the album.

In any event, I love FII. It isn't up to the "big 3" of Images and Words, Awake, and SFAM, but I'd put it squarely at #4 for me.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: bosk1 on January 11, 2019, 01:58:13 PM
I completely understand the push back the album received from fans, particularly in light of MP's public complaints about it. I know everyone says they aren't influenced by MP's comments, but I think a lot of that is horseshit, honestly.  :lol  The moment MP slagged it a ton of people just jumped on that "hate on FII" bandwagon. It is what it is. We're all guilty of doing that for something here and there. But in this case, I think it really damaged the perception of the album.

Hard to say.  I know for me, I hadn't heard MP's comments at all when I first formed my opinion of the album.  When I heard BMS on the radio after the album dropped, I hated it.  I hadn't heard anything from the album since then until I bought it in 2001 (I had Images and Words, but hadn't followed the band actively at all until SFAM came out).  I got it and Awake at the same time.  I instantly liked Awake and instantly hated FII.  It just didn't sound like the same band.  In hindsight, with so many albums behind them, and now knowing the happenings at the time they worked on that album, it makes sense and fits into their discography.  But at the time, it was jarring, and I didn't like it.  But it wasn't until a couple of years after that that I had even the slightest idea that MP had slagged the album and didn't like it.  None.

For me, the problem with it is and was simply that it contains some of my least favorite DT songs of all time.  I warmed up to some songs quite a bit.  But I still rank it toward the bottom of the DT discography because, although it has some really stellar songs, it also has its share of middle-of-the-road songs, as well as songs I still do not like and rank at the bottom of the discography. 

Here is my rough song ranking now:

Songs I love:
-Lines in the Sand
-Take Away My Pain
-Trial of Tears

Songs I like a lot:
-Peruvian Skies
-New Millenium

Okay songs (I like them, but wouldn't go out of my way to listen, ever):
-Just Let Me Breathe
-Anna Lee

Songs I REALLY dislike:
-Burning My Soul
-Hollow Years
-Hell's Kitchen
-You Not Me

4 songs out of 11 that I really dislike.  And another 2 that are not bad, but I am largely indifferent to.  Mike Portnoy has nothing to do with that.  But the other 5 are really quite good.  And I'd still really like to see BMS live, because even though I don't love it, it feels like it would be a great live song.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Setlist Scotty on January 11, 2019, 02:45:31 PM
I completely understand the push back the album received from fans, particularly in light of MP's public complaints about it. I know everyone says they aren't influenced by MP's comments, but I think a lot of that is horseshit, honestly.  :lol
Besides people like Bosk who heard the album before ever knowing MP's feelings, I definitely think that the majority of us who were around in 1996-97 and had bootleg recordings from the Fix for 96 shows *before* FII was released would disagree. I know for me, I listened to the first show repeatedly and loved the songs as they were. Then when I got the album and listened to it, I was like "WHAT THE....????"

So while I don't doubt that there are some fans who have been influenced by his comments, there's plenty of us who haven't.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Dream Team on January 12, 2019, 06:21:30 AM
Yup, I hate FII on it’s own merits and I’ve explained why numerous times. I’m really sick of hearing that MP excuse.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: jayvee3 on January 12, 2019, 07:38:25 AM
I love FII and it’s a top 5 DT album for me (which positions constantly chop and change). It is heavily underrated in my book and sonically sounds amazing. This album would likely be my favourite DT with a few changes:

1) BMS I’m just not a fan of, and think it should be replaced altogether with “Speak to Me”. That may have resulted in a few too many ballads however...
2) Hollow years should have been recorded with that amazing JP solo included from Budokan (think it was Budokan). Would’ve transformed a very good song into an unforgettable song.
3) The demos don’t phase me too much, but I do prefer “you or me” to the version of “you not me” that ended up on the album.

Just something about the feel of this album resonates with me and always did from day 1. NM, PS, HY, LITS, HK, and TOT are standouts, TAMP and AL are powerful ballads and JLMB is great in a live setting.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: erwinrafael on January 12, 2019, 08:34:01 AM
This album has four topnotch songs: Trial of Tears, Peruvian Skies, Hell's Kitchen, and Lines in the Sand.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: DTinTX on January 12, 2019, 08:44:22 AM
I picked up FII in a second hand music shop on Greenville Avenue about 3 years ago.  It was the first DT album I ever listened to.  I guess I'm in the minority here, but YNM, Lines in the Sand and Peruvian Skies hooked me on this band.  And when I say hooked I mean hopelessly hooked!  So bad in fact I'm starting to think I may need some kind of therapy.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: EPIC Outro on January 12, 2019, 09:29:41 AM
I love FII but ever since learning there were earlier versions of many of the songs, and then after hearing them via YTSEJAM records, I just can't view FII as anything but a compromised album. I still enjoy it, and I even prefer some of the studio versions, like Hollow Years. But I hope that one day DT might bring out some of those alternate versions and B sides live, like they did in the past.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: pg1067 on January 13, 2019, 05:47:45 PM
I completely understand the push back the album received from fans, particularly in light of MP's public complaints about it. I know everyone says they aren't influenced by MP's comments, but I think a lot of that is horseshit, honestly.  :lol  The moment MP slagged it a ton of people just jumped on that "hate on FII" bandwagon. It is what it is. We're all guilty of doing that for something here and there. But in this case, I think it really damaged the perception of the album.

This may be true for some, but I didn't hear MP's comments about it until probably a good decade or more after it was released.  I recall where and when I was when I first heard it.  My wife and I had just moved into a new apartment, and we had a bunch of boxes all over our living room.  I brought FII home and put it on the stereo and was kind of like, "meh...meh...what happened to these guys?"  I knew nothing about bootlegs and original versions for a long time.  I'm not sure I've listened to all of the original versions.  The one that I'm very familiar with ("You or Me") is notably worse than what ended up on the album.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: TAC on January 13, 2019, 05:55:12 PM
I completely understand the push back the album received from fans, particularly in light of MP's public complaints about it. I know everyone says they aren't influenced by MP's comments, but I think a lot of that is horseshit, honestly.  :lol  The moment MP slagged it a ton of people just jumped on that "hate on FII" bandwagon. It is what it is. We're all guilty of doing that for something here and there. But in this case, I think it really damaged the perception of the album.

This may be true for some, but I didn't hear MP's comments about it until probably a good decade or more after it was released.  I recall where and when I was when I first heard it.  My wife and I had just moved into a new apartment, and we had a bunch of boxes all over our living room.  I brought FII home and put it on the stereo and was kind of like, "meh...meh...what happened to these guys?" I knew nothing about bootlegs and original versions for a long time.  I'm not sure I've listened to all of the original versions.  The one that I'm very familiar with ("You or Me") is notably worse than what ended up on the album.

I also remember listening to FII for the first time. My first thought was …"that was quick" meaning this band's era before what I considered a total sell out was over quickly.

I saw the Fix For '96 show in Providence, but I didn't yet hear any bootlegs from those shows, nor do I think it really would've made a difference. I thought New Millenium was so contrived.

I only killed Lines In The Sand, Peruvian Skies, and Trial Of Tears. FII is, and has always been a 3 song album for me. All MP's comments, which I did not hear until many years later, did was solidify why I thought FII wasn't up to DT par.

The only thing FII has is incredible sound.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: KevShmev on January 14, 2019, 08:59:06 AM
Portnoy's history has shown that he is prone to throw fits when he doesn't totally get his way, and I think that explains his negative comments about Falling info Infinity years later, since certain things were done not the way he personally wanted them.  The fact that Petrucci came out years later and said he was happy with the album and that it was in fact the album they wanted to make at the time, spoke volumes.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: pg1067 on January 14, 2019, 11:47:13 AM
I give this album a spin now and then to see if I find something I missed previously.  I listened to the first half or so yesterday.

New Millennium:  I can remember when I first got FII.  I was initially excited by the intro, which reminded me a bit of the intro to "Leave the Past Behind" by Fates Warning (the guitar intro after the vocal part that is the actual intro to the track).  But the track pretty much goes downhill after the first part of the intro.  The intro goes on too long, and the song never really finds its feet.  It's probably a bottom 10 DT track.

You Not Me:  This song is a pretty good DT-style "single."  It's far superior to "You or Me," but it's ultimately nothing special.

Peruvian Skies:  Meh.  It's ok.  The heavy part is better than the brooding part.  And it's odd to have two songs about child abuse on the album, and this is the lesser of the two.

Hollow Years:  I've always liked this song.  The best song to this point on the album.

Burning My Soul:  Not bad, but it's not so good that it makes me want to listen repeatedly.  Strong vocal performance by James.

Hell's Kitchen:  Great, well-crafted instrumental.  It's a nice contrast to songs like "The Dance of Eternity."

Lines in the Sand:  A pretty good song ruined by the chorus with the guest "singer."

My thoughts on the rest of the album coming in a day or two.

I finished my latest re-listening to FII:

Take Away My Pain:  It's the epitome of "just ok."  The calypso vibe is vaguely interesting, but the song doesn't really do anything or go anywhere.

Just Let Me Breathe:  Probably the worst song on the album other than New Millennium.  It's a disorganized jumble.

Anna Lee:  I like the vibe of this song, although the lyrics are a little uncomfortable.  For a ballad, it's very good.  Ultimately, I like it, but when this is one of the three best songs on your album, you've got problems.

Trial of Tears:  I think this song is a big part of the "Cult of Myung" -- i.e., those who acted (and still act) in the post-MP era like anything with John Myung-penned lyrics will be absolute gold.  To me, it's pretty good, but it meanders a lot.

The bottom line of this album is that it has none of the signature DT moments that are present on I&W and Awake (even WDADU has some), and it's best songs are no better than average.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: TAC on January 14, 2019, 12:54:00 PM
Portnoy's history has shown that he is prone to throw fits when he doesn't totally get his way, and I think that explains his negative comments about Falling info Infinity years later, since certain things were done not the way he personally wanted them.  The fact that Petrucci came out years later and said he was happy with the album and that it was in fact the album they wanted to make at the time, spoke volumes.

Seems JP has a commercial side to him. On the 8V Fan Club DVD, JP speaks glowingly about 8V (the album). It actually made me worry when MP left.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: KevShmev on January 14, 2019, 02:44:14 PM
Portnoy's history has shown that he is prone to throw fits when he doesn't totally get his way, and I think that explains his negative comments about Falling info Infinity years later, since certain things were done not the way he personally wanted them.  The fact that Petrucci came out years later and said he was happy with the album and that it was in fact the album they wanted to make at the time, spoke volumes.

Seems JP has a commercial side to him. On the 8V Fan Club DVD, JP speaks glowingly about 8V (the album). It actually made me worry when MP left.

I think a better way to put it is, Petrucci does not mind input from a producer and/or outside source if he thinks it can make the song better, while Portnoy generally doesn't like anyone who is not part of the band "butting in and telling me how to make my song better." 
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: TAC on January 14, 2019, 02:55:35 PM
True. Since MP left I loved how they used a coproducer on ADTOE.
Oh wait, no they didn't.
Surely they used an outside writer and coproducer on DT12. Nope!
But on The Astonishing...Sure Kev! ;D

Oh I know...maybe on D/T...
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: ytserush on January 14, 2019, 05:24:28 PM
Anna Lee is one of the worst things they've ever done.

That said, there was a negative reaction from a substantial portion of the online fan base. at the time of release to the point where band members were DEFENDING the album though not particularly convincingly to me.

I liked about a third to half of it when it came out but it was definitely a left turn from what had come before and I thought at the time Derek and the record label were largely responsible for that.  Of course more of the behind the scenes stuff would come out later that would explain a lot of what was going on.

At the time though, all I knew was that something was wrong that changed the direction of the band.

Aside from Anna Lee I really enjoy the rest of it. I've often said that Derek being in the band was a lightning rod for me and as soon as Jordan joined I was able to step back and just enjoy the album for what it is. A nice detour from the Dream Theater road. I feel pretty fortunate that the band was able to survive that period because it was really close to being over as some of the band had said.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: KevShmev on January 14, 2019, 05:47:26 PM
True. Since MP left I loved how they used a coproducer on ADTOE.
Oh wait, no they didn't.
Surely they used an outside writer and coproducer on DT12. Nope!
But on The Astonishing...Sure Kev! ;D

Oh I know...maybe on D/T...

LOL, you know what I mean.  I don't doubt that Petrucci loves having more control now and not a co-leader/producer who always has to get his way, but back in the 90's, he always seemed like, "Hey, whatever it takes to make the song better," not, "Okay, the song has to be all us with no help from anybody."
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: TAC on January 14, 2019, 06:43:07 PM
Sure, but I firmly believe JP had less metal leanings than he does now.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: The Letter M on January 15, 2019, 10:52:21 AM
Portnoy's history has shown that he is prone to throw fits when he doesn't totally get his way, and I think that explains his negative comments about Falling info Infinity years later, since certain things were done not the way he personally wanted them.  The fact that Petrucci came out years later and said he was happy with the album and that it was in fact the album they wanted to make at the time, spoke volumes.

Seems JP has a commercial side to him. On the 8V Fan Club DVD, JP speaks glowingly about 8V (the album). It actually made me worry when MP left.

I think a better way to put it is, Petrucci does not mind input from a producer and/or outside source if he thinks it can make the song better, while Portnoy generally doesn't like anyone who is not part of the band "butting in and telling me how to make my song better."

...Except, wasn't this how Flying Colors was created in the first place? A producer-created supergroup that helped shape their debut album? The one of their 2 albums that seems to be generally more well-liked than the other (which did not have an outside producer)?

I think maybe MP looks back at FII and sees how it pales in comparison to SFAM, which saw the band taking control of themselves from producers and labels and made a hit. If SFAM had not done well, DT would not be the same, and they probably would've had outside producers in the studio again, if they went back in at all. It was a very 2112-esque moment for them, they proved themselves and were able to carry on as a self-contained unit.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Samsara on January 15, 2019, 12:36:53 PM
Yup, I hate FII on it’s own merits and I’ve explained why numerous times. I’m really sick of hearing that MP excuse.

I think the knowledgeable fans obviously made their own decision. But once that MP comment came out, people really ratcheted up the complaints, at least as far as I remember. I knew nothing of the new songs until I bought the album, and just think it was a good Dream Theater album, with more of a Jon Lord-inspired keyboard player. And most folks I knew felt the same. But then came the comment, and the Internet, and then the inevitable slag on FII.

It is what it is, but to me, its hard to deny the impact of MP's statement damning the record, and then the flurry of commentary that came out of the woodwork in agreement.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: pg1067 on January 15, 2019, 01:10:55 PM
Yup, I hate FII on it’s own merits and I’ve explained why numerous times. I’m really sick of hearing that MP excuse.

I think the knowledgeable fans obviously made their own decision. But once that MP comment came out, people really ratcheted up the complaints, at least as far as I remember. I knew nothing of the new songs until I bought the album, and just think it was a good Dream Theater album, with more of a Jon Lord-inspired keyboard player. And most folks I knew felt the same. But then came the comment, and the Internet, and then the inevitable slag on FII.

It is what it is, but to me, its hard to deny the impact of MP's statement damning the record, and then the flurry of commentary that came out of the woodwork in agreement.

I think there are some folks (who typically get saddled with the "MP fanboy" or "MP apologist" label) who ratcheted up the level of negativity about the album based on what MP wrote.  I also think there are probably some newer fans who heard MP's comments before hearing FII and allowed those comments to influence their perception of the album.

That said, has MP really slagged the album (as opposed to speaking harshly about the conditions under which it was created)?  His most succinct comments are those appearing at his web site - http://www.mikeportnoy.com/aboutmike/faq/answers/31.aspx .  He clearly says that, if he had total control, the album would have been different in that it would have been a two CD set with all of the songs that had been recorded (including the original Metropolis Pt. 2) and the original arrangements.  He bemoans the situation that the label put the band in, but he doesn't really say anything bad about the album as it was released (except to the extent he says that the "You Not Me" "experiment" failed).

From my perspective, I completely disagree about "You Not Me" (as mentioned previously).  Also, MP says that the "few good songs on Infinity" include "New Millennium" and "Just Let Me Breathe" (not coincidentally, those are two of the three songs for which he wrote the lyrics), but I think those are the two worst songs on the album.  That being said, and as much as I think FII is a mediocre album, I'm very glad they didn't make the album that MP wanted to make because that would have meant we would never have gotten SFAM.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: TAC on January 15, 2019, 01:16:38 PM
Yeah, and the fact that it would've been an even more mediocre album.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 15, 2019, 01:45:40 PM
Well I first heard the Falling Into Infinity songs mainly from their 5 years in a Livetime dvd and Budakon. You can see how bummed I was to find out about the demo songs they played not being included in the studio.

I've always liked New Millenium.

You Not Me, I enjoyed as a simple DT song with a pop chorus. After hearing You Or Me, I felt they should've kept that middle section with piano, showcased Derek's nice piano sound.

Peruvian skies is ok, it was nice knowing the influence when they incorporated both into the live version. I wouldn't mind if this came back.

Hollow years is ok on the album, I dont mind the demo pre chorus either. If they added that also in Budakon it'd be my favorite version.

Burning My Soul, its alright. Don't really listen to it much. I like the way the original intro was though. Made it more sinister.

Hells Kitchen is amazing on its own. Just missing the Tubular Bells JR did on Instrumedley.

Lines In The Sand...love it all, also wish they would've kept that demo verse.

Just Let Me Breathe is a good live song. Heard that one live my first DT show at Gigantour.  The middle section is awesome as well.

Anna Lee, I love it. Really Elton John sounding tone Derek has with his piano.

Trial of Tears among my top 10 songs.


Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: ThatOneGuy2112 on January 15, 2019, 04:17:39 PM
FII really showcases the potential that DT has/had in writing legitimately catchy and infectious songs of a more conventional nature. Hollow Years is a primo example of that. But it's clearly not something the band is interested in doing given their catalog of the last 20 years.

It's very much the black sheep of the DT discography to me, and the reasons for that are all but well documented already. It's an album that I can take it or leave it at the end of the day, but it does have some amazing tracks, I won't deny.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: pg1067 on January 15, 2019, 05:41:01 PM
Well I first heard the Falling Into Infinity songs mainly from their 5 years in a Livetime dvd and Budakon. You can see how bummed I was to find out about the demo songs they played not being included in the studio.

That's only "Cover My Eyes" and "Speak to Me" (on 5YIAL -- none of the FII demos appear on the Budokan DVD).
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Setlist Scotty on January 15, 2019, 08:44:03 PM
Hollow years is ok on the album, I dont mind the demo pre chorus either. If they added that also in Budakon it'd be my favorite version.
You mean like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fGUdQLi48s
 
 
FII really showcases the potential that DT has/had in writing legitimately catchy and infectious songs of a more conventional nature. Hollow Years is a primo example of that. But it's clearly not something the band is interested in doing given their catalog of the last 20 years.
I don't know if I'd say that is true. Certainly the band has never hid nor denied the "pop" influences or side of the band, although it does take more of a back seat to their heavy and prog sides. But I'd say that there's typically at least a track or two on each of their albums that would fit in with that. So while it might not be their main priority, it is something that they have some interest in.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: KevShmev on January 16, 2019, 09:55:23 AM
Yeah, and the fact that it would've been an even more mediocre album.

To me, the most obvious flaw with FII is the running order.  New Millennium is a solid tune, but not a good opener, so the first 14 minutes of the album is a solid tune that I do not feel starts the album well and then a song most would agree is one of their worst ever.  It takes off from there with the killer Peruvian Skies, but the first two songs are a tough nut to crack. I still kick myself, as I talked the band up to a friend at the time for like a year, so he was like, "Okay, let me borrow a CD and I will check it out," and since FII was the new album and I was loving most of it, I gave him that one.  Big mistake.  He thought the first two songs sucked and that forever tainted his view.  I was like, "What about the 3rd song?"  And he was like, "That was better, but it sounded like a Metallica-wannabe song."  I am not sure he even listened to the rest of it before giving it back.  :censored >:( :facepalm:

I think a better way to put it is, Petrucci does not mind input from a producer and/or outside source if he thinks it can make the song better, while Portnoy generally doesn't like anyone who is not part of the band "butting in and telling me how to make my song better."

...Except, wasn't this how Flying Colors was created in the first place? A producer-created supergroup that helped shape their debut album? The one of their 2 albums that seems to be generally more well-liked than the other (which did not have an outside producer)?


That is why I said "generally," as there are almost always exceptions to every rule. 
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 16, 2019, 11:05:03 AM
Well I first heard the Falling Into Infinity songs mainly from their 5 years in a Livetime dvd and Budakon. You can see how bummed I was to find out about the demo songs they played not being included in the studio.

That's only "Cover My Eyes" and "Speak to Me" (on 5YIAL -- none of the FII demos appear on the Budokan DVD).

And I loved those versions.  Which I thought were on the cd. Though when I could I bought the FII demos instantly.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Samsara on January 16, 2019, 11:26:00 AM
Hey all, I want to apologize to anyone who took offense to what I posted about MP's opinion leading most people to dislike FII. In re-reading, it came off as abrasive, and I regret that. I just think what artists say, particularly ones that are as vocal and engaged as Portnoy, really can steer people. I happen to love FII, and while I can appreciate the frustration of the band about the making of the record, it has always just bothered me that it was slagged by MP, and that so many people then seemed to jump on that. I know it isn't the case for everyone. Much respect for the differing opinions.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: bosk1 on January 16, 2019, 12:05:02 PM
I wouldn't discount that some may have jumped on that bandwagon.  Or maybe they liked it just fine, but felt that it simply wasn't quite up to the same level as the two proceeding albums and EP, and Mike's comments just emboldened some people to highlight the negatives.  But it's kind of interesting to look back on the history of the vocal fan base.  I know that by the time I started reading and posting on the forums around 2001 or 2002, there was already somewhat of a split between the DT forum and the MP.com forum, with a much bigger percentage of the MP.com fanbase following whatever MP said much more readily.  I think that same segment of the fan base might have been among those who much more readily slagged the album following his comments.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: pg1067 on January 16, 2019, 12:41:05 PM
FII really showcases the potential that DT has/had in writing legitimately catchy and infectious songs of a more conventional nature. Hollow Years is a primo example of that. But it's clearly not something the band is interested in doing given their catalog of the last 20 years.
I don't know if I'd say that is true. Certainly the band has never hid nor denied the "pop" influences or side of the band, although it does take more of a back seat to their heavy and prog sides. But I'd say that there's typically at least a track or two on each of their albums that would fit in with that. So while it might not be their main priority, it is something that they have some interest in.

Yup.

WDADU:  "Status Seeker"
I&W:  "Another Day" and "Surrounded"
Awake:  "Innocence Faded" (blech!)
FII:  Lots
SFAM:  "The Spirit Carries On"
SDOIT and TOT:  Nothing (MAYBE "Vacant," but not really)
8VA:  "The Answer Lies Within" and "I Walk Beside You"
SC:  "Forsaken" (pretty iffy, but close)
BC&SL:  "Wither"
ADTOE:  I skip about half this album, so I'm not sure which of the songs I skip might qualify.  "Beneath the Surface" probably does.
DT12:  "The Looking Glass" (a little iffy) and "Along for the Ride"
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Majesti on January 17, 2019, 08:47:50 PM
Since we’re on the topic can I just say... “Where Are You Now” is such an exceptional song! What a vibe!
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: ThatOneGuy2112 on January 17, 2019, 11:54:59 PM
FII really showcases the potential that DT has/had in writing legitimately catchy and infectious songs of a more conventional nature. Hollow Years is a primo example of that. But it's clearly not something the band is interested in doing given their catalog of the last 20 years.
I don't know if I'd say that is true. Certainly the band has never hid nor denied the "pop" influences or side of the band, although it does take more of a back seat to their heavy and prog sides. But I'd say that there's typically at least a track or two on each of their albums that would fit in with that. So while it might not be their main priority, it is something that they have some interest in.

Yup.

WDADU:  "Status Seeker"
I&W:  "Another Day" and "Surrounded"
Awake:  "Innocence Faded" (blech!)
FII:  Lots
SFAM:  "The Spirit Carries On"
SDOIT and TOT:  Nothing (MAYBE "Vacant," but not really)
8VA:  "The Answer Lies Within" and "I Walk Beside You"
SC:  "Forsaken" (pretty iffy, but close)
BC&SL:  "Wither"
ADTOE:  I skip about half this album, so I'm not sure which of the songs I skip might qualify.  "Beneath the Surface" probably does.
DT12:  "The Looking Glass" (a little iffy) and "Along for the Ride"

I would classify most of these songs as being more solemn and introspective ballads than having a more straightforward and upbeat pop tune, which FII is a bit more rife with to me.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: DTA on January 18, 2019, 06:15:44 AM
Since we’re on the topic can I just say... “Where Are You Now” is such an exceptional song! What a vibe!

I think most of the b-sides from that time are incredibly strong. The FII period was certainly a very creative time and they yielded lots of amazing songs. I only find Raise The Knife to be weaker than the rest and that's mainly because the vocal melody sounds unfinished/weak.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: kaos2900 on January 18, 2019, 06:52:06 AM
I'm actually listening to FII right now. It is definitely the most interesting DT album in the terms that it seems to be the most un-DT sounding album. To me the album is built up of really great songs and mediocre songs. Lines in the Sand is a top-10 DT song and I still think Hell's Kitchen is their best instrumental.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: jayvee3 on January 18, 2019, 07:19:19 AM
I’m always surprised by the backlash both Take Away My Pain and Anna Lee seem to get, while songs like TALW from 8V or Wither don’t appear to get similar scrutiny and are substantially inferior to the two FII ballads in my mind. I actually love those two ballads - the feel, lyrics and subject matter makes them quite beautiful and haunting at times, and I think they are often easily dismissed. Anna Lee in particular, was always a stunning track in my mind. It’s up there with Disappear and Wait for Sleep as one of my favourite very simple, yet memorable DT ballads.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: krands85 on January 18, 2019, 08:32:57 AM
I’m always surprised by the backlash both Take Away My Pain and Anna Lee seem to get, while songs like TALW from 8V or Wither don’t appear to get similar scrutiny and are substantially inferior to the two FII ballads in my mind. I actually love those two ballads - the feel, lyrics and subject matter makes them quite beautiful and haunting at times, and I think they are often easily dismissed. Anna Lee in particular, was always a stunning track in my mind. It’s up there with Disappear and Wait for Sleep as one of my favourite very simple, yet memorable DT ballads.
I've never been much of a ballad man, but I also quite like these two.

As for the album as a whole, Trial of Tears and Lines in the sand are fantastic, plus Hells Kitchen is a great instrumental. Then you have a few average tracks which are decent enough, but then also the trio of You Not Me, Burning My Soul and Just Let Me Breathe which really drag the album down. They're 3 of my least favourite DT tracks and I'd rank the album higher if they were replaced by a couple of better songs.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: KevShmev on January 18, 2019, 08:36:03 AM


I think most of the b-sides from that time are incredibly strong. The FII period was certainly a very creative time and they yielded lots of amazing songs. I only find Raise The Knife to be weaker than the rest and that's mainly because the vocal melody sounds unfinished/weak.

Despite the somewhat-petty lyrics, I find Raise the Knife to be a very strong song. 
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: DTA on January 18, 2019, 10:41:23 AM


I think most of the b-sides from that time are incredibly strong. The FII period was certainly a very creative time and they yielded lots of amazing songs. I only find Raise The Knife to be weaker than the rest and that's mainly because the vocal melody sounds unfinished/weak.

Despite the somewhat-petty lyrics, I find Raise the Knife to be a very strong song.

I think musically it's pretty cool, and the lyrics never bothered me too much. But the vocal melodies just sound a bit plain and not well-thought out. It could be because DT lyrics/vocals are always the last piece of the song to be worked on and they decided not to include RTK by that time so the vocal melodies were never fully completed but that's just me guessing. The rest of the songs have great vocals/vocal melodies but this one just sounds "meh" to me.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Samsara on January 18, 2019, 10:51:25 AM
But the vocal melodies just sound a bit plain and not well-thought out.

Agreed on RTK. I felt the same way about it. I would like it a lot better had they done a better job with the vocal melodies. Maybe they tried and could never get it right, so that's why it never really made the record. Some b-sides will always be b-sides.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: EPIC Outro on January 18, 2019, 10:56:59 AM

Vocal melodies on Raise the Knife never bothered me, they always felt pretty complete, especially the chorus.

Loved seeing this song live at Score. Had it made the album, it would have been my favorite track on it.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: bosk1 on January 18, 2019, 11:06:06 AM
Say what you will about KM, but his vocal melodies often had problems and often sound like he lacked understanding of what most singers can actually pull off successfully.  I know he didn't write the song.  But given that the lyrics for part of it were inspired by him, and the vocal melody is typical of what he had written for the band, I wonder if there was an intent to write it somewhat in his style.

Anyhow, I like the song.  I wish I knew what I did with those Die Hard parody lyrics I wrote for it back in the day.  :uny:
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: ytserush on January 19, 2019, 02:32:26 PM
I’m always surprised by the backlash both Take Away My Pain and Anna Lee seem to get, while songs like TALW from 8V or Wither don’t appear to get similar scrutiny and are substantially inferior to the two FII ballads in my mind. I actually love those two ballads - the feel, lyrics and subject matter makes them quite beautiful and haunting at times, and I think they are often easily dismissed. Anna Lee in particular, was always a stunning track in my mind. It’s up there with Disappear and Wait for Sleep as one of my favourite very simple, yet memorable DT ballads.

I've got nothing against Dream Theater ballads, but Anna Lee and Forsaken are bottom of the barrel for me.  A guess part of the reason is the lyrics do nothing for me.


Hollow Years is one of my favorite Dream Theater songs ever, The Spirit Carries On, Wither, Misunderstood......very enjoyable to me.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: jayvee3 on January 19, 2019, 05:41:16 PM
I’m always surprised by the backlash both Take Away My Pain and Anna Lee seem to get, while songs like TALW from 8V or Wither don’t appear to get similar scrutiny and are substantially inferior to the two FII ballads in my mind. I actually love those two ballads - the feel, lyrics and subject matter makes them quite beautiful and haunting at times, and I think they are often easily dismissed. Anna Lee in particular, was always a stunning track in my mind. It’s up there with Disappear and Wait for Sleep as one of my favourite very simple, yet memorable DT ballads.

I've got nothing against Dream Theater ballads, but Anna Lee and Forsaken are bottom of the barrel for me.  A guess part of the reason is the lyrics do nothing for me.


Hollow Years is one of my favorite Dream Theater songs ever, The Spirit Carries On, Wither, Misunderstood......very enjoyable to me.

That’s what makes us all different my friend, and a good reason why I enjoy this band so much - they seem to have a bit of everything, for everyone’s different tastes. I do really enjoy many of the predominately piano-based ballads, which allow James’ voice to shine. Probably why I was a fan of TA, and even love little pieces like “the Answer” which is short but pretty. Different tastes are all good to me  :tup
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: DoctorAction on March 12, 2023, 05:49:55 AM
Listened to FII this week for the first time in a long time. Great record. I skip Hollow Years and Take Away My Pain but the rest rules.

Absolutely love the rest with the exception of BMS, which I do still enjoy.

The slightly chilled, slightly jazzy, rocky vibe was very cool on this album.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Fonzie on March 13, 2023, 04:46:44 AM
I like it. It was my first, so…

But BMS, AL, HY, JLMB are all in my least favourite bottom 10. Atrocious stuff.

The peaks (LITS, TOT, HK, and yes , NM, elevate this album for me. Top 5.
I really don’t mind YNM.

I’m going to immerse myself in the demos next week. I’m looking forward to that experience.

Is the ‘Making of…’ disc worth getting?
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Stadler on March 13, 2023, 05:58:04 AM
I like it. It was my first, so…

But BMS, AL, HY, JLMB are all in my least favourite bottom 10. Atrocious stuff.

The peaks (LITS, TOT, HK, and yes , NM, elevate this album for me. Top 5.
I really don’t mind YNM.

I’m going to immerse myself in the demos next week. I’m looking forward to that experience.

Is the ‘Making of…’ disc worth getting?

IMO, only, the making of isn't something I would be going back to often, but I think I ONLY listen to the "Director's Cut" at this point.   It has the extra songs (which I love; Cover My Eyes is a top ten DT song for me) and it doesn't have the annoying vocals on LITS, among other things.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: hunnus2000 on March 13, 2023, 10:35:21 AM
FII is my least favorite album even though it's excellent but I am not DS fan. His ego has always rubbed me the wrong way but maybe that's on me.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Samsara on March 13, 2023, 11:37:17 AM
Listened to FII this week for the first time in a long time. Great record. I skip Hollow Years and Take Away My Pain but the rest rules.

Absolutely love the rest with the exception of BMS, which I do still enjoy.

The slightly chilled, slightly jazzy, rocky vibe was very cool on this album.

I don't go back to FII as often as I used to. But I love that record. As my wife pointed out about a week ago (after she listened to it again), it's the last album by DT that she really felt the band let the songs breathe. I absolutely agree. I love Trial of Tears, Anna Lee, Hell's Kitchen and Lines in the Sand a LOT. All of those are top-tier DT to me. I think I'm in the minority on "You Not Me" because I prefer it over the demo of "You Or Me" by a wide margin.

Like Stads, I also like "Cover My Eyes" but I feel it doesn't mesh with the album itself. Overall, I prefer the album as it was released.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: ZirconBlue on March 13, 2023, 01:00:49 PM
I like it. It was my first, so…

But BMS, AL, HY, JLMB are all in my least favourite bottom 10. Atrocious stuff.

The peaks (LITS, TOT, HK, and yes , NM, elevate this album for me. Top 5.
I really don’t mind YNM.

I’m going to immerse myself in the demos next week. I’m looking forward to that experience.

Is the ‘Making of…’ disc worth getting?

IMO, only, the making of isn't something I would be going back to often, but I think I ONLY listen to the "Director's Cut" at this point.   It has the extra songs (which I love; Cover My Eyes is a top ten DT song for me) and it doesn't have the annoying vocals on LITS, among other things.


I, too, prefer the demos disc to the official release, but I need to figure out a better track order than the chronological one.  More like the album order with the new songs either mixed in or tacked onto the end.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Stadler on March 13, 2023, 01:28:40 PM
Listened to FII this week for the first time in a long time. Great record. I skip Hollow Years and Take Away My Pain but the rest rules.

Absolutely love the rest with the exception of BMS, which I do still enjoy.

The slightly chilled, slightly jazzy, rocky vibe was very cool on this album.

I don't go back to FII as often as I used to. But I love that record. As my wife pointed out about a week ago (after she listened to it again), it's the last album by DT that she really felt the band let the songs breathe. I absolutely agree. I love Trial of Tears, Anna Lee, Hell's Kitchen and Lines in the Sand a LOT. All of those are top-tier DT to me. I think I'm in the minority on "You Not Me" because I prefer it over the demo of "You Or Me" by a wide margin.

Like Stads, I also like "Cover My Eyes" but I feel it doesn't mesh with the album itself. Overall, I prefer the album as it was released.

I'm not a huge fan of either You Not Me, or You Or Me (I think they're the same song more or less, and "Desmond Child" isn't the kiss of death for me) and ironically, it was the making of that sort of sealed the deal on that.  The isolated backing vocals - "Yeeewwwwwwwwwwww, not MEEEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!" are hard for me to unhear.   ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: nick_z on March 17, 2023, 09:36:41 AM
Listened to FII this week for the first time in a long time. Great record. I skip Hollow Years and Take Away My Pain but the rest rules.

Absolutely love the rest with the exception of BMS, which I do still enjoy.

The slightly chilled, slightly jazzy, rocky vibe was very cool on this album.

I don't go back to FII as often as I used to. But I love that record. As my wife pointed out about a week ago (after she listened to it again), it's the last album by DT that she really felt the band let the songs breathe. I absolutely agree. I love Trial of Tears, Anna Lee, Hell's Kitchen and Lines in the Sand a LOT. All of those are top-tier DT to me. I think I'm in the minority on "You Not Me" because I prefer it over the demo of "You Or Me" by a wide margin.

Like Stads, I also like "Cover My Eyes" but I feel it doesn't mesh with the album itself. Overall, I prefer the album as it was released.

Very much agree with this. Not only do the songs breathe, but the album has a ton of cool songwriting ideas. Granted, not all of them successful, but despite all that was going on during that time, with the pressure and such, I do feel this is still a record from a "hungry" band. It was a time when you weren't quite sure what to expect from a DT record as you dropped the needle (figuratively) on it. Love the sound, love MP's performance on it.

I feel similarly to you about You Not Me vs. You Or Me, although I wish they had kept the melodic mid-section that was on the demo. Really like that one. But, yes, I like the chorus on the album version better. In terms of the excluded songs: I have said it before - I would have liked to hear Raise The Knife with the album production - I think it's a cool combo of DT's technical approach and the more stripped down sound of the FII era. And I have a soft spot for the U2/The Cure vibe of Speak To Me. Burning My Soul is easily my least favorite tune on the album, so I would have happily swapped it for one of those.

New Millennium, Peruvian Skies, and (especially) Hell's Kitchen, Lines in the Sand, Trial of Tears are top, top-shelf DT songs in my book.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: ZirconBlue on March 17, 2023, 12:13:12 PM
I feel similarly to you about You Not Me vs. You Or Me, although I wish they had kept the melodic mid-section that was on the demo. Really like that one. But, yes, I like the chorus on the album version better.


I think the chorus of You Not Me is a little better, but everything else about You Or Me is superior IMO.  And the You Or Me chorus allows the overlapping vocals at the end that wouldn't work with the You Not Me chorus.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Samsara on March 17, 2023, 01:10:25 PM

Very much agree with this. Not only do the songs breathe, but the album has a ton of cool songwriting ideas. Granted, not all of them successful, but despite all that was going on during that time, with the pressure and such, I do feel this is still a record from a "hungry" band. It was a time when you weren't quite sure what to expect from a DT record as you dropped the needle (figuratively) on it. Love the sound, love MP's performance on it.

I feel similarly to you about You Not Me vs. You Or Me, although I wish they had kept the melodic mid-section that was on the demo. Really like that one. But, yes, I like the chorus on the album version better. In terms of the excluded songs: I have said it before - I would have liked to hear Raise The Knife with the album production - I think it's a cool combo of DT's technical approach and the more stripped down sound of the FII era. And I have a soft spot for the U2/The Cure vibe of Speak To Me. Burning My Soul is easily my least favorite tune on the album, so I would have happily swapped it for one of those.

New Millennium, Peruvian Skies, and (especially) Hell's Kitchen, Lines in the Sand, Trial of Tears are top, top-shelf DT songs in my book.

Agreed on the bold. I think Raise the Knife needs a little work (it's...not sure how to phrase this right...it's a little choppy/clunky). But I dig the vibe and think it could have/should have made the record. Speak to Me, stupidly, I meant to say in my post. Love that tune. Totally should have been on FII.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: HOF on March 19, 2023, 03:41:33 PM
I love FII, both as is and with the unreleased tracks included in some way. I’d drop Burning My Soul, Just Let Me Breath, and Peruvian Skies for Raise the Knife, Speak to Me, and The Way It Used To Be. If we need more time, just boot You Not Me.

But I also think as a double album they could have maybe arranged it to have the heavier songs on one disc and the lighter songs on the other.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Cool Chris on March 20, 2023, 08:14:30 PM
I’d drop Burning My Soul, Just Let Me Breath, and Peruvian Skies....

Keep going...  :laugh:
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Kram on March 21, 2023, 12:35:59 PM
I love FII, both as is and with the unreleased tracks included in some way. I’d drop Burning My Soul, Just Let Me Breath, and Peruvian Skies for Raise the Knife, Speak to Me, and The Way It Used To Be. If we need more time, just boot You Not Me.

But I also think as a double album they could have maybe arranged it to have the heavier songs on one disc and the lighter songs on the other.
I'd keep Peruvian Skies but like your other edits.  Of course a double album would've been cool!
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Dublagent66 on March 21, 2023, 03:36:26 PM
I haven't given this one a spin lately, but when I do, I'll have no problem getting through it. :)
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: JeopardousRaven on April 21, 2023, 09:14:32 PM
I'm a big fan of this album, but I can definitely see why so many fans, especially at the time of its release, disliked it. I only recently got into Dream Theater so from my perspective this album is a cool detour away from their usual style and showcases a side of the band that isn't present on any of their other albums. But if I were a fan back in 1997, itching for more stuff like Images and Words, Awake, and Change of Seasons I would definitely be pretty pissed to get this instead.

I've recently been experimenting with the demos and my ideal version is a 2-disc album constructed in a similar way to King Crimson's Three of a Perfect Pair. The first half of the album is the poppier, more accessible material while the second half contains the proggier, heavier stuff. I call it "Two Sides of Infinity". Every song is the demo version.

Disc One:
1. You or Me
2. Cover My Eyes
3. Where Are You Now?
4. Take Away My Pain
5. Anna Lee
6. Just Let Me Breathe
7. Hollow years
8. The Way It Used to Be
9. Speak to Me
Total length: 56 mins 43 sec

Disc Two:
1. Raise the Knife
2. New Millennium
3. Burning My Soul
4. Peruvian Skies
5. Lines in the Sand
6. Trial of Tears
Total length: 1 hr 2 mins
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: evilasiojr on April 22, 2023, 09:17:45 AM
That looks so cool! I'll definitely try it out
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Setlist Scotty on April 22, 2023, 04:12:45 PM
I'm a big fan of this album, but I can definitely see why so many fans, especially at the time of its release, disliked it. I only recently got into Dream Theater so from my perspective this album is a cool detour away from their usual style and showcases a side of the band that isn't present on any of their other albums. But if I were a fan back in 1997, itching for more stuff like Images and Words, Awake, and Change of Seasons I would definitely be pretty pissed to get this instead.

While there might be some truth to what you're suggesting, I think a big part of the problem was the fact that some of the songs had been changed significantly between the original demo version and the final studio version. We knew this because we had been getting pretty much a play-by-play from the band in the Images and Words fanzine during the time period where they were doing the writing, even telling us the length of the songs. Plus they had premiered an instrumental excerpt of RtK at two shows in 1995 which whet the fans' appetite for a song that never appeared on the album, and they premiered 5 songs at the Fix for '96 shows - two of which were changed significantly (BMS and TAMP) and one was more streamlined (LitS). So at least for the diehards "in the know" such as in the fan clubs and/or on the Ytsejam Mailing List, getting FII (complete with a cover not using the band's font and barely showing the Majesty symbol) was a huge shock. Those feelings were reinforced by those that had the Japanese version of FII and the HY single which featured 2 demos each - one heavily changed, and one that didn't make the cut. Prior to that, I don't remember reading any comments by fans in the fanzine or the mailing list that expressed concern or disappointment over the new songs that DT was preparing for FII.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: TAC on April 22, 2023, 05:05:48 PM
I'm a big fan of this album, but I can definitely see why so many fans, especially at the time of its release, disliked it. I only recently got into Dream Theater so from my perspective this album is a cool detour away from their usual style and showcases a side of the band that isn't present on any of their other albums. But if I were a fan back in 1997, itching for more stuff like Images and Words, Awake, and Change of Seasons I would definitely be pretty pissed to get this instead.

While there might be some truth to what you're suggesting, I think a big part of the problem was the fact that some of the songs had been changed significantly between the original demo version and the final studio version. We knew this because we had been getting pretty much a play-by-play from the band in the Images and Words fanzine during the time period where they were doing the writing, even telling us the length of the songs. Plus they had premiered an instrumental excerpt of RtK at two shows in 1995 which whet the fans' appetite for a song that never appeared on the album, and they premiered 5 songs at the Fix for '96 shows - two of which were changed significantly (BMS and TAMP) and one was more streamlined (LitS). So at least for the diehards "in the know" such as in the fan clubs and/or on the Ytsejam Mailing List, getting FII (complete with a cover not using the band's font and barely showing the Majesty symbol) was a huge shock. Those feelings were reinforced by those that had the Japanese version of FII and the HY single which featured 2 demos each - one heavily changed, and one that didn't make the cut. Prior to that, I don't remember reading any comments by fans in the fanzine or the mailing list that expressed concern or disappointment over the new songs that DT was preparing for FII.

As big of a fan as I was at the time, I was not involved in any of the fanzines. Even though I saw The Fix For '96 tour, I didn't get the boot for years later, so I had no idea that there were altered demo versions, obviously not remembering the arrangements from the '96 show.

JeopardousRaven is 100% correct. It was the only time I have ever been truly disappointed in a new Dream Theater album. On that first listen, I literally thought the band as I knew it, was finished.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Cool Chris on April 22, 2023, 05:39:12 PM
As big of a fan as I was at the time, I was not involved in any of the fanzines. .... JeopardousRaven is 100% correct. It was the only time I have ever been truly disappointed in a new Dream Theater album. On that first listen, I literally thought the band as I knew it, was finished.

This is me. I loved I&W and Awake, but wasn't online, never read magazines, and there's a good chance I didn't know what a fanzine was in 1996. Even at that point I appreciated bands evolved and didn't want to replicate what they had done previously. I loved I&W and Awake for how, while incorporating musical aspects of different bands I enjoyed (soaring vocals, complex instrumentation...) , they had put it all together unlike anything I had heard before. FII felt like such a departure, I was like TAC in thinking this train had changed tracks, and I wasn't sure if I wanted to stay on board.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: KevShmev on April 22, 2023, 05:51:01 PM
I still don't get being upset that rough drafts (which demos in essence are) didn't make the proper album.  I mean, I get it if that is the version you were used to, and then you thought the album version wasn't as good, but I remember hearing the demos years later and thought almost every version that made FII was quite a bit better, so this feels like a case of "I like what I heard first the most."  I mean, the original Burning My Soul is basically a trainwreck (it literally sounds like a mish-mash of two unrelated songs), so breaking that up and turning the instrumental bits into a beast of a song like Hell's Kitchen was the right call.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Setlist Scotty on April 23, 2023, 01:23:02 PM
I still don't get being upset that rough drafts (which demos in essence are) didn't make the proper album.  I mean, I get it if that is the version you were used to, and then you thought the album version wasn't as good, but I remember hearing the demos years later and thought almost every version that made FII was quite a bit better, so this feels like a case of "I like what I heard first the most."  I mean, the original Burning My Soul is basically a trainwreck (it literally sounds like a mish-mash of two unrelated songs), so breaking that up and turning the instrumental bits into a beast of a song like Hell's Kitchen was the right call.
I'm sure that for me, part of it is what I had became familiar with, having received a boot of a Fix for 96 show shortly after the show happened, and listening to it repeatedly until those songs were etched into my consciousness. So by the time the album proper was released, hearing those changes was a disappointment. I do disagree with the assertion that most of the changes made the songs better. While I understand the mindset of excising what became HK from BMS (and the outro from HK is awesome), I still like the shifting moods and untraditional arrangement of the original. The only one that I really agree with was an improvement was the rearranging of some of the lyrics in LitS. But that's opinions for ya.

Nonetheless, as I said before - and as you can read for yourselves in the Ytsejam Mailing List - there were no complaints or expressions of disappointment of the new songs that were featured during the Fix for 96 shows. Of course, had they played 4 or 5 different songs, maybe the opinions of those in attendance and reporting (and those of us who subsequently got boots of those shows) might not have been so glowing - we'll never know. But once the album was released, there was definitely disappointment expressed. I know I felt it then.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 24, 2023, 08:27:07 AM
I can't speak to the fanzine subscribers, but I do know that, just like the amount of fans who belong to message boards now, they were never the majority of the fanbase.

At the time, I was not a part of the fanzine crowd, and my reaction to FII was similar to TAC and Cool Chris.  I loved DT based on the music they had released, which at that time was WDADU, I&W, Awake, and ACOS, and LATM/I&W - Tokyo.  FII was not that, it was different.  Some of the songs were (and remain) among my favorite DT tracks, but the rest didn't really feel very much like DT.  It felt like something else. 
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: KevShmev on April 24, 2023, 05:02:55 PM
That's a great point.  No clue how many people were a part of the Ytsejam Mailing List, but I would imagine it was a tinny tiny part of the overall fanbase. 
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: crystalstars17 on April 25, 2023, 02:35:07 PM
This album is definitely one of extreme highs and lows for me, and that said, I love love love Hell's Kitchen.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Cool Chris on April 25, 2023, 07:24:24 PM
....I love love love Hell's Kitchen.

I gave up on FII shortly after it was released,  and when I heard the Hell's Kitchen part on the Instrumedley from the Budokan DVD, I thought "Damn, that is awesome, what the heck song is that?" Then I saw the FII artwork on the video screen and though "wait... is that from FII?"  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Dublagent66 on April 26, 2023, 04:13:29 PM
I could easily revisit this album at any time and have no problem listening to it straight through.  Of course there are a few subpar tracks, but I really don't mind.  Having said that, I think that YNM and JLMB could've been replaced by RTK and that would've been perfect.  I also like BMS and TAMP.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Jamesman42 on February 14, 2024, 06:51:20 PM
I am sort of giving FII a relisten, especially after the top 100 countdown.

This album is foreign to me, sort of. Along with WDADU and SFAM, it always sounds like a new album since those 3 get little love from me overall.

Just Let Me Breathe is a song I almost completely forgot about, and listening now, I don't remember any of this. :lol
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: crystalstars17 on February 14, 2024, 08:02:31 PM
....I love love love Hell's Kitchen.

I gave up on FII shortly after it was released,  and when I heard the Hell's Kitchen part on the Instrumedley from the Budokan DVD, I thought "Damn, that is awesome, what the heck song is that?" Then I saw the FII artwork on the video screen and though "wait... is that from FII?"  :facepalm:

The first time I heard Hell's Kitchen was live in 2017. I loved it immediately. I still am transported right back to that moment whenever I hear it.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Zydar on February 15, 2024, 03:35:43 AM
I did a re-listen to all the MP era albums a week or two ago. It cemented my appreciation for this album (I love their entire 90s era). So many great songs to be found here: New Millennium, Peruvian Skies, Hollow Years, Take Away My Pain, Anna Lee, and Trial Of Tears. I even got a new appreciation for Burning My Soul lately. You Not Me is alright (gets way too much flak), but I still can't really enjoy Just Let Me Breathe. It might not be as heavy as Awake or progressive as SFAM, but there's lots of lovely melodies and arrangements to be found if you like that side of the band. Oh, and I enjoy a couple of the omitted tracks too - like Speak To Me and Raise The Knife.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Sycsa on February 15, 2024, 04:07:31 AM
I agree, it's an interesting album through and through. Not your typical DT prog metal extravaganza. I'd love it if DT embraced their melodic/pop sensibilities on the upcoming album. I think there's a good chance for that.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 15, 2024, 06:23:18 AM
I like Falling Into Infinity a lot more now than I did when it was released.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: HOF on February 15, 2024, 06:28:40 AM
This was the current release at the time I got into the band, but I heard I&W and Awake first, so yeah it did sound kind of not like DT to me at the time too. I remember not really knowing what to make of it, but I didn’t instantly love it. A few tracks did jump out though, particularly Hollow Years and Hell’s Kitchen. Maybe Lines in the Sand too, I can’t quite remember.

I came back to it a year or so later though, and it really grew on me, to the point where I was kind of disappointed that they abandoned that more melodic classic rock direction when SFAM came out. I still think it's their most mature effort from a songwriting and production perspective. It has two duds in Burning My Soul and Just Let Me Breath, and I also prefer several of the tracks that didn’t make it to the album.

But really I just enjoy that era of songwriting from the band. The circumstances sucked for sure, but it produced some real gems in my opinion.  Still some of my very favorite DT songs here (Trial of Tears, Take Away My Pain, Lines in the Sand, Hell’s Kitchen, Speak To Me, The Way It Used to Be, and so on). In retrospect I wish they could have carried on more in that direction as I burned out on the band over the next several albums and they never really got back to this height for me.

Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Setlist Scotty on February 15, 2024, 08:02:35 AM
I agree, it's an interesting album through and through. Not your typical DT prog metal extravaganza. I'd love it if DT embraced their melodic/pop sensibilities on the upcoming album. I think there's a good chance for that.
It's always possible, but don't forget that they kinda did on 8v as well. MP has gone on record as stating that 8v is basically what FII would have been if not for the label's involvement.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Zydar on February 15, 2024, 08:06:57 AM
I agree, it's an interesting album through and through. Not your typical DT prog metal extravaganza. I'd love it if DT embraced their melodic/pop sensibilities on the upcoming album. I think there's a good chance for that.
It's always possible, but don't forget that they kinda did on 8v as well. MP has gone on record as stating that 8v is basically what FII would have been if not for the label's involvement.

Interesting, I can see that. So would that make the early version of Metropolis Part 2 the equivalent of 8VM the title track (a long epic)?
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Setlist Scotty on February 15, 2024, 08:28:00 AM
I agree, it's an interesting album through and through. Not your typical DT prog metal extravaganza. I'd love it if DT embraced their melodic/pop sensibilities on the upcoming album. I think there's a good chance for that.
It's always possible, but don't forget that they kinda did on 8v as well. MP has gone on record as stating that 8v is basically what FII would have been if not for the label's involvement.
Interesting, I can see that. So would that make the early version of Metropolis Part 2 the equivalent of 8VM the title track (a long epic)?
I would say so. If you look at the FII demos, MP says they worked on the song in mid-1996. While it was never finished properly (and they chose to continue working on other music), if they would have concluded with it and everything else they completed by July 1996 as appearing on disc 1 of the demos (which were considered "complete" when everything was done, including lyrics), then the track listing would have been something like:
Raise the Knife
Where Are You Now?
Take Away My Pain
You or Me
Anna Lee
Burning My Soul
The Way It Used to Be
Lines in the Sand
Metropolis part 2

Even all these tracks add up to 90 minutes of music, so one or two tracks would have been dropped to make it a single CD - maybe WAYN and/or YoM, and/or some editing to some of the tracks as Kevin Shirley ultimately did. Hard to know for certain since we don't know what the discussions were within the band and when they spoke with the label, but it does give us a little idea.

edit: just found the note MP made that said they worked on M2 after finishing YoM and AL. So just the first 5 tracks plus M2 would have added up to 60 minutes of music. If they would have stuck with their "write only a CD's worth of material" mentality, then maybe they would have worked just on LitS and called it a day. Hard to say.
Title: Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
Post by: Zydar on February 15, 2024, 08:37:35 AM
Wow, thanks a lot for the information! That would make for an interesting tracklist indeed.